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[cinnamonandgravy]

Steelseries was dumb enough to make a mouse with rumble, years ago.

It went really really well.

Not.

according to the website, the vibration is for "in-game events" like low health, and you need to set up events in the mouse's app, which isnt what i want.

i just want a mouse that vibrates like a controller.
if a game already supports controller vibration, just use that code to tell the mouse when to vibrate.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

They make those partial gamepad things with an analog stick for movement. I've never used one, but they seem to be pretty good.

can you link to any of them?

im not finding any.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

didn't Siege add aim assist a while back? I haven't played it on console for a while but I heard they did.

H1Z1 has no aim assist tho on PS4... but that game is pretty much dead... it was the hot shit for a few months tho before all the competitors came to console/launched like PUBG and Apex

Nah no AA for multiplayer, Siege has always had aim assist available for the PVE stuff though. I wouldn't be surprised if PUBG console (also no AA) was more active than Splatoon 2 either.

I'm not trying to say anything negative about Splatoon's controls. Never tried it. Maybe I'd like gyro but the sticks to 'get me close' so to speak? I'm not into it.

As for the topic, it comes down to there being no standard or consensus on how thumbstick aiming should work. On PC the consensus is there, the peripheral market caught up, and virtually ever PC shooter you can control exactly how you want it to.

Also the actual controllers are a bit limiting. A lot of the problems stem from dead zone, and that's purely down to the hardware, the springs aren't good enough to accurately center a stick, especially over time factoring wear, and the sensors don't seem to have the precision needed anyway. If you look at the raw numbers of what a stick is reporting by connecting to a PC you can see that the numbers often change without you touching it. You get a mouse that reports it moved a pixel like that and you're taking it right back to the store for a replacement.

 

[PSYGN]

It's really crazy how big of a difference there is between fps aim with a controller in each game.

On pc you have a mouse, where any game feels identical no matter which mouse you have.

Then there's games like Halo and Destiny that's feels like ass and are heavily clunky, while games like Cod and Titanfall had spot on fluently aiming.

I don't get now that fps has been going on for so long on consoles, why smooth aiming from cod and Titanfall hasn't been an industry standard, and we still get shit clunky controls in a lot of other fps games?

(disclaimer - I know controller is shit compared to keyboard and mouse, but this is about using a controller in different games)

They really need an OS-level control standard.

 

[01011001]

Nah, Siege has always had aim assist available for the PVE stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if PUBG console (also no AA) was more active than Splatoon 2 either.

I am not 100% on this, but I think they made it available in PVP too. do you play Siege on console? cuz I'm out of my element here, I only played it close to launch for a bit.

PUBG seems like it's dying a bit tbh... last time I tried to play it it was super hard to get a full match, but that was before it went free 2 play.

I'm not trying to say anything negative about Splatoon's controls. Never tried it. Maybe I'd like gyro but the sticks to 'get me close' so to speak? I'm not into it.

As for the topic, it comes down to there being no standard or consensus on how thumbstick aiming should work. On PC the consensus is there, the peripheral market caught up, and virtually ever PC shooter you can control exactly how you want it to.

IMO there is a consensus.

these games aren't popular for no reason. Call of Duty in particular quickly became known as that Console shooter that feels the best back during the Modern Warfare 2 days.

and Fortnite didn't change their entire Analog Aiming mechanics for no good reason. they listened to the consensus of the fanbase that wanted controls like Call of Duty and they gave it to them (although Fortnite still has not enough reaction curve options IMO).
Fortnite at first literally had a snap-on mechanic like Call of Duty games have in the campaign, but even crazier than there. they removed that after they finally made their controls be good lol. it would have been unplayable before the overhaul if they had removed the semi-lock-on

Apex (and Titanfall) of course being made by former Call of Duty devs also continues that tradition and even improved over Call of Duty's controls with more in depth settings.

 

[01011001]

They really need an OS-level control standard.

that would be the best. every camera control is simply handled like a raw mouse input in the game's engine, and the console settings can be adjusted to how your analog stick moves that "virtual mouse" let's call it.

but that is a utopian dream that will never come true sadly
the closest we can get is Steam mouse emulation... but not every game is happy to take mouse and controller inputs at the same time

 

[R6Rider]

can you link to any of them?

im not finding any.

I know Logitech made one in the past, but don't remember what it was called. Razer still makes several models under the Tartarus line.

 

[Tams]

sorry that you are wrong, but you are so wrong that I have to tell you that you are indeed WRONG



weird how the most popular competitive shooters like CoD, Apex and Fortnite get it right tho and Fortnite even being a game that after a lot of backlash and literally years of pushing from the community implemented a completely new aiming system that ditched all the filtering and processing after the fact and added a shitload of options to adjust. before it had ALL the worst aspects of analog aiming, similar to games like Halo or Destiny and they completely changed that

People do not need these things, these things don't help either, all they do (the things we, the people who know the topic at hand, say are bad) is make the controls worse, less responsive and inconsistent



you LITERALLY have no idea what you are talking about, this is not the topic at hand at all, and you are WRONG... I can't say this often and strongly enough, you are completely out of your element. you most likely never heard the terms response curve or axial deadzone

It's just computer games.

May I suggest some Bob Ross? Maybe it'll take your mind off it.

 

[Tams]

I know Logitech made one in the past, but don't remember what it was called. Razer still makes several models under the Tartarus line.

G13.

And they've shown zero interest in updating it or even selling it as was.

The Belkin N52/Nostromo / Razer Nostromo/Tartarus/Orbweaver is not analogue. It's just an eight-way d-pad for the thumb.

There was also some MechWarrior controller or something.

The only company selling anything like it now is Azeron. It's expensive and 3D printed.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I am not 100% on this, but I think they made it available in PVP too. do you play Siege on console? cuz I'm out of my element here, I only played it close to launch for a bit.

PUBG seems like it's dying a bit tbh... last time I tried to play it it was super hard to get a full match, but that was before it went free 2 play.

I've played some console Siege this season, and believe me if they did something like add aim assist in the middle of a season after 7 years the community would have imploded and I'd have heard about it by now.

PUBG TPP is always pretty lively. The FPP modes were all pretty reasonable to get lobbies in when the new map launched but I haven't played in a couple of weeks.

IMO there is a consensus.

these games aren't popular for no reason. Call of Duty in particular quickly became known as that Console shooter that feels the best back during the Modern Warfare 2 days.

and Fortnite didn't change their entire Analog Aiming mechanics for no good reason. they listened to the consensus of the fanbase that wanted controls like Call of Duty and they gave it to them (although Fortnite still has not enough reaction curve options IMO).
Fortnite at first literally had a snap-on mechanic like Call of Duty games have in the campaign, but even crazier than there. they removed that after they finally made their controls be good lol. it would have been unplayable before the overhaul if they had removed the semi-lock-on

Apex (and Titanfall) of course being made by former Call of Duty devs also continues that tradition and even improved over Call of Duty's controls with more in depth settings.

Even your 'consensus' picks have significant differences. It's nice they have similar settings but there's no 1:1 conversion. For PC games it's as simple as plugging some numbers into a converter, or just measuring out your 360 or 180 distance and matching that way. The only recent pain point sometimes is sensitivity for higher zoom levels.

And on console you're interacting with different aim assist systems giving 'friction' to your reticle making everything feel even more different.

On PC, my R6, PUBG, Destiny 2, COD, Battlefield, Fortnite, and Apex control exactly the same. Well D2 is a little off because it doesn't have robust settings for various zoom levels but I tend to play that one at higher sensitivity than the others anyway. Hell, there are more differences between 2 back to back COD releases when it comes to the controller mechanics than there are between completely different games on PC.

So yeah, I don't think it's consensus on console. Bungie and many of their fans will tell you that they're the ones who have nailed the 'feel' of console FPS, even though they give you nowhere near the options that say a COD does.

 

[Uiki]

according to the website, the vibration is for "in-game events" like low health, and you need to set up events in the mouse's app, which isnt what i want.

i just want a mouse that vibrates like a controller.
if a game already supports controller vibration, just use that code to tell the mouse when to vibrate.

I don't know how the new one works. On the original one (rival 700) you were able to choose what event triggered the vibration (reload, kill, hs, bomb dropped and stuff like that). It worked for sure on csgo, dunno on other games.

Otherwise:

 

[I Master l]

FPS games becoming faster each year making controller aiming nearly impossible without strong aim assist

 

[jezhumphrey75]

end of.....mouse so much more accurate.

 

[Elysion]

I always disliked playing games on PC with M+Kb, even shooters. Moving the camera with a mouse has always felt too fast and twitchy for me, and shooting enemies with point-and-click just never felt fun. A mouse is simply too sensitive for me. Sure, mouse speed/sensitivity can be turned down, but mouse controls with low sensitivity feel even worse. And the fact that a mouse always rests on the desk makes it feel so restrictive – unlike a controller that I can hold however I want. And don’t get me started on the keyboard; using a keyboard for general movement has always been terrible; I wish there was some kind of one-handed controller for the left hand that can be used for movement, like the Wii nunchak.

That said, I do think that standard twin-stick controls are starting to show their age, especially for shooters, and I wish Wii-like pointer controls had stuck around, because that is still the best way to play an fps for me. Pointer controls have great precision, but aren’t as overly sensitive as a mouse. The only downside is that it can take a bit too long to turn, but that could be mitigated with a second stick on the right-hand controller (which for some reason neither the Wiimote nor Sony‘s Move controller had). Thankfully there‘s gyro controls these days, which offer a nice compromise between standard joystick and pointer controls.

Anyway, for me, M+Kb is suitable only for rts games or point-and-click adventures, but little else. Though I guess in the end it‘s a question of habit.

 

[jezhumphrey75]

I always disliked playing games on PC with M+Kb, even shooters. Moving the camera with a mouse has always felt too fast and twitchy for me, and shooting enemies with point-and-click just never felt fun. A mouse is simply too sensitive for me. Sure, mouse speed/sensitivity can be turned down, but mouse controls with low sensitivity feel even worse. And the fact that a mouse always rests on the desk makes it feel so restrictive – unlike a controller that I can hold however I want. And don’t get me started on the keyboard; using a keyboard for general movement has always been terrible; I wish there was some kind of one-handed controller for the left hand that can be used for movement, like the Wii nunchak.

That said, I do think that standard twin-stick controls are starting to show their age, especially for shooters, and I wish Wii-like pointer controls had stuck around, because that is still the best way to play an fps for me. Pointer controls have great precision, but aren’t as overly sensitive as a mouse. The only downside is that it can take a bit too long to turn, but that could be mitigated with a second stick on the right-hand controller (which for some reason neither the Wiimote nor Sony‘s Move controller had). Thankfully there‘s gyro controls these days, which offer a nice compromise between standard joystick and pointer controls.

Anyway, for me, M+Kb is suitable only for rts games or point-and-click adventures, but little else. Though I guess in the end it‘s a question of habit.

mouse aim is so bad

 

[01011001]

FPS games becoming faster each year making controller aiming nearly impossible without strong aim assist

aim assist in most games gets weaker tho compared to older titles.

also after experimenting with playing Splitgate without aim assist I disagree wholeheartedly that it's nearly impossible without aim assist. that's something that when I hear it instantly tells me someone is pretty bad at shooters

the actual match starts about 2min in and before that you can see me warm up in the pre match lobby

(Zielhilfe Stärke = Aim Assist strength)

and here after roughly an hour of playing without aim assist, a Swat Pistols match... not a fan of Swat Pistols because the pistol in Splitgate has random spread, meaning aiming someone dead on the head can still result in the bullet missing or hitting the body hitbox instead

(I had to mute the audio because I had Spotify on in the background and YouTube didn't like that)

and remember, these 2 videos is me playing this game on controller for the first time in more than half a year, and for less than an hour without aim assist.
yet I didn't feel nearly as disadvantaged as I thought I would.
the worst issue I had was that for my flick shots I'm used to the aim assist friction, so I had to completely fight against my muscle memory basically and mentally recalibrate


there's also videos online of Apex Legends players trying to play without aim assist and still keeping up no problem.
one guy even did it for 5 whole months in Diamond and Master lobbies

 

[01011001]

Even your 'consensus' picks have significant differences. It's nice they have similar settings but there's no 1:1 conversion. For PC games it's as simple as plugging some numbers into a converter, or just measuring out your 360 or 180 distance and matching that way. The only recent pain point sometimes is sensitivity for higher zoom levels.

And on console you're interacting with different aim assist systems giving 'friction' to your reticle making everything feel even more different.

On PC, my R6, PUBG, Destiny 2, COD, Battlefield, Fortnite, and Apex control exactly the same. Well D2 is a little off because it doesn't have robust settings for various zoom levels but I tend to play that one at higher sensitivity than the others anyway. Hell, there are more differences between 2 back to back COD releases when it comes to the controller mechanics than there are between completely different games on PC.

So yeah, I don't think it's consensus on console. Bungie and many of their fans will tell you that they're the ones who have nailed the 'feel' of console FPS, even though they give you nowhere near the options that say a COD does.

they have differences but they all follow very similar guidelines let's say.

they all keep anything that fucks with your input as an optional thing that you can turn off completely.

they all have similar aim assist, it's simply the strength that differs with Fortnite being a bit too strong imo.

and they all try to offer a lot of options.

while it's not as homogeneous as on PC, it's getting there. these games are getting closer and closer to eachother, that was never the case before, almost no game had aiming that feels like CoD for example, they all felt completely different from eachother, but nowadays every dev that cares tries to get close to how CoD feels, even Battlefield did that over time. BF4 still felt way worse than CoD, but by the time BF1 and BF5 came out they added a shitton of options and the general feel of the aim also was closer to CoD at the default settings.

Splitgate also feels like CoD, but it lacks a lot of options sadly. still, CoD was the inspiration there too.

so there is a consensus, it's just that developers are slow to adapt and get up to speed to what Titanfall 2 did with the ridiculously in-depth settings it had (and now Apex Legends also has)

a trend towards a certain way of doing things is clearly there tho, so I'd call that the consensus of where shooters on controller should head towards, even tho they aren't there yet

 

[DeepSpace5D]

the game "feels good" that is true, but it's not the aiming controls that do that. it's the audio visual design (animations of the gun, the sound of the gun, hit response markers and sound etc)

but just as a demonstration for the bullet magnetism in Destiny 2, and it's basically the same in Halo if not stronger in some circumstances.

and I will remain with my opinion that if Destiny 2 wouldn't have this much aim assist and bullet magnetism, people would not say it plays well. because I have played shooters with similar controls but with (let's call it) normal aim assist, and it is almost unplayable.
and yes, the clip here is on Mouse on PC btw. because if mouse didn't have this massive magnetism then controller players would fry them to no end. the same reason why Halo Infinite keeps the bullet magnetism on Mouse and Keyboard.
in Halo's case it is because the BR (the most used weapon in competitive modes) basically aims itself, barely needs input from the player, just aim at the general direction of the enemy.

I think in Halo's case the Commando (a similar weapon to the BR in terms of use cases) was specially introduced to give Mouse players a weapon they can dominate with as it has very little aim assist on controller and has a faster TTK and a higher effective distance than the BR

Yeah that’s a good video demonstrating an example of bullet magnetism in the game. But the fact that it’s a PC user I think highlights the point I was trying to make that it’s present on both console and PC and can be tweaked/adjusted/augmented based on a large number of different variables. In the context of that video, it appears the guy is testing various different weapon perks and mods his guns have to test how they affect the level of magnetism he gets.

For instance, one of the perks he was testing was called Rangefinder. If we look at the Rangefinder perk description in game it says, “Aiming this weapon increases its effective range and zoom magnification. Bullet magnetism itself is affected by accuracy, range, zoom level, and distance from target. So naturally, having a perk that increases your range and zoom is going to increase the level of magnetism that gun has vs another gun that doesn’t have the rangefinder perk on it.

Aim assist is a hidden stat in the game, but it determines the size of the cone where bullet magnetism occurs. Originally I was under the impression that controller players had more aim assist than PC players to make up the deficit in precision, but it seems that it’s handled differently in Destiny 2. Here’s an interesting video that talks about aim assist and some testing done between controller and mouse and keyboard:



Based on the tests performed, the PC version appears to have more aim assist, accuracy, and stability over controller players using the same guns and perks/mods for each. Having a higher aim assist is going to increase the size of the cone and therefore the area which bullet magnetism occurs for PC players. Increased stability is going to prevent the cone from decreasing in size during rapid fire.

The reason this is higher on PC apparently is because of the reticle friction that controller players are given, which is a slowing down of the reticle when it nears the target. This reticle friction, I think, is what you were referring to when you said, “because if mouse didn't have this massive magnetism then controller players would fry them to no end”. But feel free to correct me if you were talking about something else.

So back to when you said that the game feels good to me because the aiming is basically done for me as a controller player. If the above video is correct, wouldn’t that mean that it’s actually the M&K players who have a larger area where the aiming is done for them, while controller players have less of that but they are given reticle friction?

At the end of the day, it seems that Bungie have struck a good balance between the two where it feels good to play Destiny 2 on console or PC.

 

[Tams]

Yeah that’s a good video demonstrating an example of bullet magnetism in the game. But the fact that it’s a PC user I think highlights the point I was trying to make that it’s present on both console and PC and can be tweaked/adjusted/augmented based on a large number of different variables. In the context of that video, it appears the guy is testing various different weapon perks and mods his guns have to test how they affect the level of magnetism he gets.

For instance, one of the perks he was testing was called Rangefinder. If we look at the Rangefinder perk description in game it says, “Aiming this weapon increases its effective range and zoom magnification. Bullet magnetism itself is affected by accuracy, range, zoom level, and distance from target. So naturally, having a perk that increases your range and zoom is going to increase the level of magnetism that gun has vs another gun that doesn’t have the rangefinder perk on it.

Aim assist is a hidden stat in the game, but it determines the size of the cone where bullet magnetism occurs. Originally I was under the impression that controller players had more aim assist than PC players to make up the deficit in precision, but it seems that it’s handled differently in Destiny 2. Here’s an interesting video that talks about aim assist and some testing done between controller and mouse and keyboard:



Based on the tests performed, the PC version appears to have more aim assist, accuracy, and stability over controller players using the same guns and perks/mods for each. Having a higher aim assist is going to increase the size of the cone and therefore the area which bullet magnetism occurs for PC players. Increased stability is going to prevent the cone from decreasing in size during rapid fire.

The reason this is higher on PC apparently is because of the reticle friction that controller players are given, which is a slowing down of the reticle when it nears the target. This reticle friction, I think, is what you were referring to when you said, “because if mouse didn't have this massive magnetism then controller players would fry them to no end”. But feel free to correct me if you were talking about something else.

So back to when you said that the game feels good to me because the aiming is basically done for me as a controller player. If the above video is correct, wouldn’t that mean that it’s actually the M&K players who have a larger area where the aiming is done for them, while controller players have less of that but they are given reticle friction?

At the end of the day, it seems that Bungie have struck a good balance between the two where it feels good to play Destiny 2 on console or PC.

At the end of the day, accuracy goes: mouse > gyro and accelerometer > joystick. There's simply no question about it.

As for the video, someone in the comments put it succinctly:

AlienFreak69​

2 years ago
This is just bullet magnetism. Aim Assist usually pertains to on-aim snapping. When you aim, the reticle "snaps" onto the target and then helps the player maintain his aim. This "snapping" generally only applies to controllers. Magnetism works on both, KB+M and controller though.

Now, it it's to see why you might think of bullet magnetism as aim assist. It gets the bullets/arrow/punch/spell/etc. to hit the target when they have missed; it's essentially increasing the hitbox size. But it isn't improving your aim for you and therefore is not aim assist. It's more lenient rather than doing something for the player.

As to why Destiny 2 has mouse and keyboard have more magnetism/larger hitboxes? I assume because controller play has more aim assist (snap) and therefore it wouldn't be balanced if it was also more lenient with aim.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

At the end of the day, accuracy goes: mouse > gyro and accelerometer > joystick. There's simply no question about it.

As for the video, someone in the comments put it succinctly:



Now, it it's to see why you might think of bullet magnetism as aim assist. It gets the bullets/arrow/punch/spell/etc. to hit the target when they have missed; it's essentially increasing the hitbox size. But it isn't improving your aim for you and therefore is not aim assist. It's more lenient rather than doing something for the player.

As to why Destiny 2 has mouse and keyboard have more magnetism/larger hitboxes? I assume because controller play has more aim assist (snap) and therefore it wouldn't be balanced if it was also more lenient with aim.

What you’re saying is pretty much the same as what the video says. In the case of Destiny 2, it’s not necessarily a snap to the target, but it’s referred to as “reticle friction” and it’s a slowing down of the reticle as it nears the target. This is on controller.

And yes the aim assist is increased on mouse and keyboard to counterbalance the reticle friction that controller players have. Aim assist sort of makes the hitbox larger, true, but it also curves the bullets towards the target for the bullets that are inside of the aim assist cone. I suggest watching the video I posted from the beginning if you want a thorough breakdown of how it works in the case of Destiny 2 specifically.

“At the end of the day, accuracy goes: mouse > gyro and accelerometer > joystick. There's simply no question about it.”

Yeah I don’t think anyone is questioning this.

 

[Tams]

What you’re saying is pretty much the same as what the video says. In the case of Destiny 2, it’s not necessarily a snap to the target, but it’s referred to as “reticle friction” and it’s a slowing down of the reticle as it nears the target. This is on controller.

And yes the aim assist is increased on mouse and keyboard to counterbalance the reticle friction that controller players have. Aim assist sort of makes the hitbox larger, true, but it also curves the bullets towards the target for the bullets that are inside of the aim assist cone. I suggest watching the video I posted from the beginning if you want a thorough breakdown of how it works in the case of Destiny 2 specifically.

“At the end of the day, accuracy goes: mouse > gyro and accelerometer > joystick. There's simply no question about it.”

Yeah I don’t think anyone is questioning this.

I did watch it. He spent all the analysis time firing at wall, so it didn't have any aim assist in play.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

I did watch it. He spent all the analysis time firing at wall, so it didn't have any aim assist in play.

No that was where I started the video from a specific timestamp relative to what I and 01011001 were talking about. If you start it from the very beginning it goes much further than that with how the actual mechanics of aim assist work in Destiny 2.

 

[Rawker]

CNC router vs stick controls with an operator, it's really not that hard to comprehend the difference in accuracy, speed, and precision. They offer a different experience, much like playing a racing simulator with a steering wheel or a personal favorite of fishing with a rod.

Certain control mechanics are better simulated with a particular peripheral. Hardware matters as well, a port is an after thought.

 

[Ivan]

I love how every console shooter feels different. You can feel different mecahnics on mouse, of course, but on consoles they are completely different games. Something like Killzone 2 vs cod for example. I'd hate if everything was standardized and every game felt the same.

Mouse accuracy and speed is unmached, but as I got older, I started to appreciate unique feeling and general fun factor much more. More precise? Of course. But is it more fun for someone like me who doesn't care about multiplayer at all anymore...I don't think so.

I even get back to that mouse and keyboard mode from time to time, but I start to get a strong "been there, done that" feeling very fast. It is still great, but I guess I just don't care anymore.

Destiny is a prefect example of a game that will never be the same on m/k. All of it's magic is lost when you can play it like every other shooter on a mouse.

 

[Davernos]

You gotta try Hunt: Showdown on consoles to realize the true horrors of controller aiming.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Apex Legends has the best controller settings.

ImperialHal from TSM, who's arguably the best competitive player in the game, just switched from MnK to controller.

Also, Apex Legends on PC only have 0.4 aim assist - which is very low compared to CoD and extremely low compared to Destiny 2.

Somehow Respawn (originally Inifinity Ward) got it right.

Genburten (winner of ALGS) is also a controller player. When controller players can go head to head with MnK players on a competitive scene - the settings for controller is just right.

 

[01011001]

You gotta try Hunt: Showdown on consoles to realize the true horrors of controller aiming.

oh shit, yeah, I played the trial version when it came to the preview program... fucking hell...

that has to be if not the worst, at least in the top 5 worst controller aiming in the history of First Person Shooters

 

[Punished Miku]

Not rly, as you can use gyro in MS games of this gen.

What do you suggest, specifically?

 

[01011001]

Yeah that’s a good video demonstrating an example of bullet magnetism in the game. But the fact that it’s a PC user I think highlights the point I was trying to make that it’s present on both console and PC and can be tweaked/adjusted/augmented based on a large number of different variables. In the context of that video, it appears the guy is testing various different weapon perks and mods his guns have to test how they affect the level of magnetism he gets.

For instance, one of the perks he was testing was called Rangefinder. If we look at the Rangefinder perk description in game it says, “Aiming this weapon increases its effective range and zoom magnification. Bullet magnetism itself is affected by accuracy, range, zoom level, and distance from target. So naturally, having a perk that increases your range and zoom is going to increase the level of magnetism that gun has vs another gun that doesn’t have the rangefinder perk on it.

Aim assist is a hidden stat in the game, but it determines the size of the cone where bullet magnetism occurs. Originally I was under the impression that controller players had more aim assist than PC players to make up the deficit in precision, but it seems that it’s handled differently in Destiny 2. Here’s an interesting video that talks about aim assist and some testing done between controller and mouse and keyboard:



Based on the tests performed, the PC version appears to have more aim assist, accuracy, and stability over controller players using the same guns and perks/mods for each. Having a higher aim assist is going to increase the size of the cone and therefore the area which bullet magnetism occurs for PC players. Increased stability is going to prevent the cone from decreasing in size during rapid fire.

The reason this is higher on PC apparently is because of the reticle friction that controller players are given, which is a slowing down of the reticle when it nears the target. This reticle friction, I think, is what you were referring to when you said, “because if mouse didn't have this massive magnetism then controller players would fry them to no end”. But feel free to correct me if you were talking about something else.

So back to when you said that the game feels good to me because the aiming is basically done for me as a controller player. If the above video is correct, wouldn’t that mean that it’s actually the M&K players who have a larger area where the aiming is done for them, while controller players have less of that but they are given reticle friction?

At the end of the day, it seems that Bungie have struck a good balance between the two where it feels good to play Destiny 2 on console or PC.

well that video doesn't demonstrate much... it's all "it seems to be..." or "seems to stay..."

but bullet magnetism isn't everything, as you said, controller in Destiny also has really high reticle friction, way more than most modern shooters have.

what my point is tho is that if you turned off Aim Assist in CoD, Apex, Splitgate (which I tried and had little issue with) or many other modern shooters you'd be fine.

but IMO if you turned all that off, including reticle friction and bullet magnetism, Destiny 2 would be unplayable on Controller.

the Deadzone alone, which is not even configurable, would make it impossible to have fine control over your aim.
the non-adjustable axial deadzone would further mess with your precision as that would make small diagonal adjustments impossible.
and lastly the aim acceleration, which you also can not adjust at all, would make consistency in your aim impossible, especially because the acceleration is not omnidirectionally applied but in fact split into horizontal and vertical acceleration.

I still say it is the aim assist mechanics that makes Destiny 2 playable at all, similar to Halo Infinite.

What I would love to see, just to really demonstrate what I'm talking about, is a mod for Destiny 2 or Halo Infinite where one player can use Steam's mouse emulation and the other the game's default analog aiming. and both players play without any aim assist.

I think that would very well showcase how much of a difference it makes to have good analog aiming settings

 

[rodrigolfp]

What do you suggest, specifically?

Play them on PC with the best controller with gyro for your taste (Steam Controller, DS4, Dual Sense, Switch Pro, etc).

I have tried gryo, but it never "clicked" with me. I think it has something to do with how lite the controller is and no resistance. But, for those who like it, yeah it can be a lot more precise.

This things ("newer better controls") takes some time to "click". I bet when it do the satisfaction will be great.

 

[Punished Miku]

Play them on PC with the best controller with gyro for your taste (Steam Controller, DS4, Dual Sense, Switch Pro, etc).

ahhh, yeah true. I was thinking there was some off brand shit for Xbox maybe. I don't have a gaming PC.