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Why I think Dark Cloud is better than Ocarina of Time

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Kamina

Golden Boy
Dark what? What even is this game?


NOOOOOOOOOOO WTF OP YOU CANT SAY THAT. THERE'S LITERALLY NO GAMES BETTER THAN SOME JANKY UGLY 3D GAME ON N64!!!!!!! OOT IS MY CHILDHOOD LITERALLY NOTHING CAN BEAT THAT!!!
So edgy. You are probably the type of person who would randomly piss into peoples coffees if you worked in a diner.
 

jonnyXx

Member
I threw Dark Cloud in the garbage bin. I tried to give it out to friends first but no one wanted it.

I liked the city building and the weapon progression system in Dark Cloud but absolutely hated pretty much everything else about it... the combat, randomized levels, and the damned thirst mechanic.

I know the game has it's following but to me it's not even remotely comparable to OoT.
 
The thread title says "Why I think Dark Cloud is better than Ocarina of Time", but your opening post only covers why you liked Dark Cloud so much. It doesn't really touch on Ocarina outside of saying it's still a good game.

Ergo, you could probably have done this thread as "Why Dark Cloud is great" without invoking the big-ticket classic that is Ocarina of Time and the associated ire from people that feel strongly about it.
Not true. "There also wasn't a big emphasis on solving puzzles, just recovering items used to place in the towns via Georama mode according to the villagers' wishes. Combat is also enjoyable with the occasional QTE sequence during duels."
As it stands, there's not really an argument to rebuke, so 'lol no' is the best you're gonna get out of most posters that disagree. Plus there's the stuff about them being generations and genres apart, which would probably be wise to address if you're looking to draw a direct comparison between them.

I think calling 'mob mentality' is a bit much, particularly considering that the original title was somewhat clickbaity.
I'm not pulling the comparison out of thin air; Dark Cloud has been compared to Ocarina of Time by critics, it is the same genre, and it is only a console generation apart, not multiple.

I'm aware the original title was somewhat clickbaity. That's why I had it changed. Let's move on from that please.
 

Shifty

Member
Not true. "There also wasn't a big emphasis on solving puzzles, just recovering items used to place in the towns via Georama mode according to the villagers' wishes. Combat is also enjoyable with the occasional QTE sequence during duels."
That's, uh, not exactly much to go on.

I'm not pulling the comparison out of thin air; Dark Cloud has been compared to Ocarina of Time by critics, it is the same genre, and it is only a console generation apart, not multiple.
I didn't say you were, but from a position of no context they seem very different.

I disagree that they're the same genre. DC has an action-JRPG basis with stats and a party plus randomly generated dungeons and the unique town-building mechanic, whereas OoT is a solo action-adventure that relies on item mechanics for progression through its hand-authored dungeons.

If anything I'd liken Dark Cloud more to Persona (JRPG + random dungeons + unique out-of-dungeon mechanics) or the Tales games.
 

Bakkus

Member
LMAO story, set pieces and characters in OoT? You must have dreadfully low standards I guess. They were fine for the time and as far as puzzle solving satisfaction goes if you've ever actually played a real puzzle game like Myst then the simplistic puzzles of OoT won't impress you. I'm not praising Dark Cloud but when I played OoT I realized it had aged terribly unlike say the original TLoZ or ALTTP. Old 3d game with all the jank that comes with it is the perfect way to sum up OoT IMO. Zelda games in general don't have good stories either but hey you do you.
The first Zelda is one of the most poorly aged games ever made. Let me guess. You're the type who finds the story set pieces nd characters of those wannabe movies Bioware, Rockstar and Kojima makes to be fantastic? Never played Myst, but it speaks for itself that a game completely build around puzzles might have better than the ones find in Zelda...
 

Zephir

Member
Dark Cloud is nice and everything, but...Dark Chronicle is better in pretty much anything...and to be fair, Rogue Galaxy is even better than those two
 
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jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Maybe OP should have posted this in the unpopular opinion thread. For what it's worth, I might be the only person that agrees with OP.

Ocarina of Time is great and all, but Dark Cloud has definitely stood up to my own personal scrutiny and has stood the test of time. When I think about wanting to replay OoT these days, it's always like "nah, I mean that game was cool when it first came out but it's hugely flawed, overrated, with bad technical performance." Meanwhile Dark Cloud has cool RPG elements, a town building / sim mode that's surprisingly fun, and a huge amount of weapon, enemy, and location variety that OoT just doesn't have.
 

Nightrunner

Member
The first Zelda is one of the most poorly aged games ever made. Let me guess. You're the type who finds the story set pieces nd characters of those wannabe movies Bioware, Rockstar and Kojima makes to be fantastic? Never played Myst, but it speaks for itself that a game completely build around puzzles might have better than the ones find in Zelda...
No not really. I hate how pretentious Rockstar games are with regards to their "cinematic" games. They just feel like bland knockoffs to me. I hate what they did to Max Payne 3 and I dislike RDR2. Haven't had the chance to play anything Bioware and I like the Metal Gear series for its gameplay (same reason I've been into Splinter Cell since game one). But hey that is what happens when you assume you make an ass out of u.
 

Nightrunner

Member
The first Zelda is one of the most poorly aged games ever made. Let me guess. You're the type who finds the story set pieces nd characters of those wannabe movies Bioware, Rockstar and Kojima makes to be fantastic? Never played Myst, but it speaks for itself that a game completely build around puzzles might have better than the ones find in Zelda...
In regards to the first Zelda once you get past the graphics there is a lot of fun to be had exploring and just discovering what the game world holds. The multitude of ways one can approach it and the flexibility is what I like about it. There is a whole world waiting to be discovered and no fluff to bother you while you're doing it.
 
That's, uh, not exactly much to go on.

I didn't say you were, but from a position of no context they seem very different.

I disagree that they're the same genre. DC has an action-JRPG basis with stats and a party plus randomly generated dungeons and the unique town-building mechanic, whereas OoT is a solo action-adventure that relies on item mechanics for progression through its hand-authored dungeons.

If anything I'd liken Dark Cloud more to Persona (JRPG + random dungeons + unique out-of-dungeon mechanics) or the Tales games.
You're probably right but even the leveling up is different in Dark Cloud focusing on the weapons so I never really viewed it as an RPG similar to how I don't view Zelda as an RPG. And I know some people didn't like the thirst mechanic but I didn't think it was much of a detriment to the overall experience. Persona does feature randomly-generated dungeons but that's the only similarity in my opinion.

Sorry, I really did want to reminisce about the original Dark Cloud but I guess I blew it.
 
Maybe OP should have posted this in the unpopular opinion thread. For what it's worth, I might be the only person that agrees with OP.

Ocarina of Time is great and all, but Dark Cloud has definitely stood up to my own personal scrutiny and has stood the test of time. When I think about wanting to replay OoT these days, it's always like "nah, I mean that game was cool when it first came out but it's hugely flawed, overrated, with bad technical performance." Meanwhile Dark Cloud has cool RPG elements, a town building / sim mode that's surprisingly fun, and a huge amount of weapon, enemy, and location variety that OoT just doesn't have.

I always respect your opinions/posts, mate.

I haven't played Dark Cloud yet so I have no horse in this race (it's buried deep in my mile-high backlog of games to play). Ocarina of Time is god-tier though and they appear to be odd games to compare against one another.

But I've bumped up Dark Cloud a couple of notches on my to-play list because of your post. I still play my PS2 regularly so I might give it a shot next. I'll make sure that I dive in with an open mind and without the expectations that it's better though.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I always respect your opinions/posts, mate.

I haven't played Dark Cloud yet so I have no horse in this race (it's buried deep in my mile-high backlog of games to play). Ocarina of Time is god-tier though and they appear to be odd games to compare against one another.

But I've bumped up Dark Cloud a couple of notches on my to-play list because of your post. I still play my PS2 regularly so I might give it a shot next. I'll make sure that I dive in with an open mind and without the expectations that it's better though.
Thanks. Obviously everyone's opinion is going to be different and people like games for different reasons. I'll agree that these two games are wildly different (outside of a few common similarities like having a silent protagonist) and are definitely odd to compare against each other.
 

Bakkus

Member
location variety
Is also one of OoT strongest points. Every point in that game is very different from eachother.
No not really. I hate how pretentious Rockstar games are with regards to their "cinematic" games. They just feel like bland knockoffs to me. I hate what they did to Max Payne 3 and I dislike RDR2. Haven't had the chance to play anything Bioware and I like the Metal Gear series for its gameplay (same reason I've been into Splinter Cell since game one). But hey that is what happens when you assume you make an ass out of u.

In regards to the first Zelda once you get past the graphics there is a lot of fun to be had exploring and just discovering what the game world holds. The multitude of ways one can approach it and the flexibility is what I like about it. There is a whole world waiting to be discovered and no fluff to bother you while you're doing it.
Well, ok then. Which games do you think does characterization, story and set pieces the best?

The first Zelda is repetitive with godawful combat, the ridiculous desicion to only allow projectiles at full health, and seemed to be designed to make you buy guides to help you out before internet happned. I guess that there wasn't much more you could do with the NES hardware to improve on this (or at the very least it hadn't been figured out yet at the time of it's development), but that's just all the more reasons to why it hasn't aged well. Then again, I feel that way for most NES games. As for AlttP, I kind of agree with some of the points EasyAllies' Kyle Bosman thinks of it. Then again, that games was also one of the first games on the SNES, so it goes without saying.
 
I've already explained why I like the game more than Ocarina of Time only to have you respond by saying I have the wrong opinion. I'm not here to change anyone's mind about a classic N64 title but it's discouraging when the immediate response from people is to laugh at me for having a different opinion.

It's a video game, not a person. What is this mob mentality?
Please say you at least finished OoT. Like how far did you get? Dodongo's Cavern is literally the second dungeon you go into toward the beginning of the game. Not liking puzzles would definitely taint ones opinion of Zelda since puzzles are a big part of the game. So there is that, but if you didn't finish the game and only got to Dodongo's Cavern before you quit, it's hard to take your opinion more seriously.
 
Please say you at least finished OoT. Like how far did you get? Dodongo's Cavern is literally the second dungeon you go into toward the beginning of the game. Not liking puzzles would definitely taint ones opinion of Zelda since puzzles are a big part of the game. So there is that, but if you didn't finish the game and only got to Dodongo's Cavern before you quit, it's hard to take your opinion more seriously.
I did complete Dodongo's Cavern but stopped short of reaching the Zoras. I know it's still early in the game but I remember being distracted by other areas like the farm and graveyard, areas which I think you go to later on in the story. I have played other Zelda games of which the only one I came close to completing was A Link Between Worlds but I kept dying from Yuga Ganon so I just gave up.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I dunno that I agree with the premise, but Dark Cloud 1 is a good game. I actually went back and played it again a few years ago, and it's aged very well. Definitely the sort of game that you have to be in the right mindset to play, as it is pretty repetitive... but as long as you're in for that sort of grind, it's great.

And the soundtrack is fantastic. That's indisputable.
 

BlackTron

Member
I did complete Dodongo's Cavern but stopped short of reaching the Zoras. I know it's still early in the game but I remember being distracted by other areas like the farm and graveyard, areas which I think you go to later on in the story. I have played other Zelda games of which the only one I came close to completing was A Link Between Worlds but I kept dying from Yuga Ganon so I just gave up.

His bomb missed the big skull's eye, Link fell off the bridge into the lava, and he ragequit the game!
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
There is only one ps2 rpg that is not wank.


Final fantasy 12
WanLoathsomeGoosefish-size_restricted.gif
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Wow, they actually compared the two games in printed form (!?).

I really love reading old game magazines. It adds so much context, value and fun when playing older games and exploring a retro game library.
I just love the header tagline: "TOKYO GAME SHOW: All the games, all the babes! pg.20". Now imagine if modern gaming journalism were so bold.

Either way, awesome to see the artwork there and the comparison being made. They definitely put a lot of emphasis on that green hat lol
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Majora's Mask is the only Zelda game I have enjoyed to date. Even then I didn't care much for Dark Cloud.
 
I just love the header tagline: "TOKYO GAME SHOW: All the games, all the babes! pg.20". Now imagine if modern gaming journalism were so bold.

Either way, awesome to see the artwork there and the comparison being made. They definitely put a lot of emphasis on that green hat lol
Dark Cloud, Final Fantasy IX, Gran Turismo 3, Twisted Metal Black... I loved playing all of these games.
 

Pallas

Gold Member
Wow, they actually compared the two games in printed form (!?).

I really love reading old game magazines. It adds so much context, value and fun when playing older games and exploring a retro game library.
Aye I actually owned that magazine back then, I used to get every issue of PSM when I was younger.
PSM really was a great magazine back in the day. It was just fun.

It really was, it was by far my favorite gaming magazine ever to be honest. They had good articles about games, no political shit you find these days.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Wow, they actually compared the two games in printed form (!?).

I really love reading old game magazines. It adds so much context, value and fun when playing older games and exploring a retro game library.
Why wouldn't a PS magazine try to claim they have the Zelda killer game lol? Comparisons like that were made all day every day back then. Well, it's still done wasn't Killzone called Sony's Halo killer and shit? Or was that just Haze? I forget, lol.
 
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Aye I actually owned that magazine back then, I used to get every issue of PSM when I was younger.

It really was, it was by far my favorite gaming magazine ever to be honest. They had good articles about games, no political shit you find these days.
They had personality. It was always nice to look at the art by Adam Warren and read the often humorous final word about a relevant topic from the editor in chief and his crew.
 
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Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Dark Cloud had two things that I thought drove it away from greatness. One was the water system and having to go back refill it. Link doesn’t behave the way he does with limitations, except a jump button. It does give you the opportunity to jump when you utilize the environment.

Another thing was having to build your town. Some of us want to see the creator’s journey and when you have to modify its existence; you feel detached from that flow. I’m not big into modifying a town just because I enjoy the way the developer saw it.

OOT came at a different time. I remember freaking out over the first images on IGN and buying every game magazine that had a feature on it. I remember replaying the Deku Tree at the Target kiosk and memorizing where to go. The button commands of each item felt so important and the world just breathed itself to life.
 
Why wouldn't a PS magazine try to claim they have the Zelda killer game lol? Comparisons like that were made all day every day back then. Well, it's still done wasn't Killzone called Sony's Halo killer and shit? Or was that just Haze? I forget, lol.

Of course! I was there at the time, busily reading the same opinionated magazines in the Newsagent (the internet wasn't anywhere near as prevalent as it is now, as you know). The printed, longform console-centric fanboyism is actually really fun to revisit, read and enjoy as a retro gamer :messenger_beermugs: . Especially so if you're platform agnostic and are now just revisiting/discovering amazing games that you missed from an earlier console generation :messenger_grinning_smiling: .
 
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Most Clickbait Thread Title of the Year.
Stop spamming my thread. I don't find your posts funny or entertaining and certainly not informative apart from making me realize how desperate you are to increase your worthless reaction score. It's not happening, not from me, not ever. I'm not interested in what someone who still lives with his mother and plays video games to overcome his porn addiction has to say. Now go back to Off-Topic and continue pestering Matt to repair your virtual relationship despite it being obvious he no longer wants to associate with you.
 
Stop spamming my thread. I don't find your posts funny or entertaining and certainly not informative apart from making me realize how desperate you are to increase your worthless reaction score. It's not happening, not from me, not ever. I'm not interested in what someone who still lives with his mother and plays video games to overcome his porn addiction has to say. Now go back to Off-Topic and continue pestering Matt to repair your virtual relationship despite it being obvious he no longer wants to associate with you.
PEUR.gif
 

Xaero Gravity

NEXT LEVEL lame™
Stop spamming my thread. I don't find your posts funny or entertaining and certainly not informative apart from making me realize how desperate you are to increase your worthless reaction score. It's not happening, not from me, not ever. I'm not interested in what someone who still lives with his mother and plays video games to overcome his porn addiction has to say. Now go back to Off-Topic and continue pestering Matt to repair your virtual relationship despite it being obvious he no longer wants to associate with you.


Hello 911, I'd like to report a murder
 
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Nightrunner

Member
Is also one of OoT strongest points. Every point in that game is very different from eachother.

Well, ok then. Which games do you think does characterization, story and set pieces the best?

The first Zelda is repetitive with godawful combat, the ridiculous desicion to only allow projectiles at full health, and seemed to be designed to make you buy guides to help you out before internet happned. I guess that there wasn't much more you could do with the NES hardware to improve on this (or at the very least it hadn't been figured out yet at the time of it's development), but that's just all the more reasons to why it hasn't aged well. Then again, I feel that way for most NES games. As for AlttP, I kind of agree with some of the points EasyAllies' Kyle Bosman thinks of it. Then again, that games was also one of the first games on the SNES, so it goes without saying.
That's the thing I don't play my games for "characterization, story or set pieces" these are the things people play all those cinematic wannabes for. If I was interested in set pieces Uncharted would be my favorite title, which spoiler: it isn't. If I do have to pick though Soul Reaver shits all over OoT in terms of both characterization and story. As far as the OG Zelda goes I played it while consulting the map which the game came with and bombed/burned the shit out of everything without any guides hence why I enjoyed it so much. It's funny you can see the problems in LoZ and LttP but think OoT has good characterization, story and set pieces. The characters in OoT are paper-thin including the protagonist and only act as expository devices while falling into all the predictable tropes. Even when they subvert them for a moment they still end up doing the trope like with Zelda. The best games IMO are the ones that don't have set pieces and let you make your own amazing sequences or go did I just do that of which there are plenty of Japanese action games for you to check out or even shooters like Max Payne 1/2.
 

Pallas

Gold Member
So did the series completely bombed? Even the sequel ... that really wasn’t a sequel I think? It was named Dark Chronicles in Japan but renamed Dark Cloud 2 in the states, I wonder why they did that? I don’t even know if the original dark cloud is connected to Dark Cloud 2/Chronicles.



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Stop spamming my thread. I don't find your posts funny or entertaining and certainly not informative apart from making me realize how desperate you are to increase your worthless reaction score. It's not happening, not from me, not ever. I'm not interested in what someone who still lives with his mother and plays video games to overcome his porn addiction has to say. Now go back to Off-Topic and continue pestering Matt to repair your virtual relationship despite it being obvious he no longer wants to associate with you.

You know there were better ways to handle that instead of throwing insults.

But you agonizing him over Matt crossed the line!

Too soon man, too soon. Smh
 
You know there were better ways to handle that instead of throwing insults.

But you agonizing him over Matt crossed the line!

Too soon man, too soon. Smh
I forgive him. He reminds me of myself back in the early 2000's with almost the same exact taste in games. I'll always love him for that.
 
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