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Why do Sony struggle with backwards compatibility?

Xplainin

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I am still not sure why Sony cant do the same with BC as MS can.
MS has shown its actually possible as they have done it.
Last gen Sony tied the PS4 Pro to using 36CUs to help with BC, allowing them to turn off half th GPU to mirror the PS4 GPU.
MS however with the XOX wen't bothered with that and added a GPU without the need to have to tie the CU count in any way, and not only that but moved from a RAM set up on the OG Xbox of using DDR3 RAM and a pool of ESRAM to a pool of 12GB of GDDR5 RAM.
No problem with BC for the XOX.

And again this next gen we see MS smashing Sony on BC.

Is this just Sony not caring about BC? Or do they not have the technical ability like MS to do it?
I realize MS are the software kings and have far more resources and knowedge than Sony in this area, but surely its not at that level to get BC going is it?

I mean, basically every PC game made is back compat. A new GPU comes out, the game plays on it. A new CPU comes out, it plays on it. Different card manufacturers, with different CU numbers and different clock speeds? Not a problem. Three different Pcs with different amount and types of RAM?
Not a problem. Game runs.

So what the fuck is going on GAF?
 
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psorcerer

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I am still not sure why Sony cant do the same with BC as MS can.
MS has shown its actually possible as they have done it.
Last gen Sony tied the PS4 Pro to using 36CUs to help with BC, allowing them to turn off half th GPU to mirror the PS4 GPU.
MS however with the XOX wen't bothered with that and added a GPU without the need to have to tie the CU count in any way, and not only that but moved from a RAM set up on the OG Xbox of using DDR3 RAM and a pool of ESRAM to a pool of 12GB of GDDR5 RAM.
No problem with BC for the XOX.

And again this next gen we see MS smashing Sony on BC.

Is this just Sony not caring about BC? Or do they not have the technical ability like MS to do it?
I realize MS are the software kings and have far more resources and knowedge than Sony in this area, but surely its not at that level to get BC going is it?

I mean, basically every PC game made is back compat. A new GPU comes out, the game plays on it. A new CPU comes out, it plays on it. Different card manufacturers, with different CU numbers and different clock speeds? Not a problem. Three different Pcs with different amount and types of RAM?
Not a problem. Game runs.

So what the fuck is going on GAF?

Sony games getting the best graphics and perf happens.
 
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Because so make too many masterpieces and still get money?
Xbox stop production as soon as possible, ps1 - ps2 - ps3 they all sold a lot more after next gen release
 
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ACESHIGH

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They don't seem to care. At least I want to know how PS4 and PSVR BC are going to work. That might make the purchase of a PS5 more attractive down the line. But I don't trust Sony, they have proved time and time again that they don't care about their legacy.
 
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Xplainin

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Sony games getting the best graphics and perf happens.
RDR2 blows any PS game out the window, yet plays on every single set up.
Thats my point. Its obviously more than possible to do it, so why isnt it happening?
What is holding Sony back with needing a certain amount of Cu's, and having their GPU downclock to the same speed as the PS4 or PS4 Pro when playing those games, yet any PC game plays at any clock speed, with any amount of Cu's, on an AMD or Nvidia card, on a Intel or AMD CPU etc.

I dont get why its the issue it is.
 

Xplainin

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Sony is just lazy. And their fanboys don't care so why wouldn't they be lazy?
But obviously Sony do care. They have spent alot of time and effort with the PS5 to have BC, and apparently it played a role in the amount of Cu's they chose.
But just take this one point.
The PS5 GPU will down clock to the PS4 and PS4 pro GPU clock speeds when you put one of those games in. Why does it need to do that when a PC games will play on any clock speed. Not only that, but say the new AMD RDNA 2 cards come out that have clocks at 2.2ghz, those games that came out before those cards did will still play fine.
Why?
 
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reinking

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Sony did BC long before MS did. I would love to have BC all the way back to PSOne but they probably have data that supports their decision. I suspect that the cost vs the number of people that actually use it makes it not worth it. Going back one generation will be good enough to keep the current generation supported when they move to the next.
 
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you make too many stupid threads.

The opening post is literally lacking any substance whatsoever. Even asking why MS is doing enhanced BC while PS1 emulation was abandoned this gen would have at least started off a discussion.

This is both companies BC plan:

Sony:
“A quick update on backward compatibility — With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5,” Sony writes in the update text, which it posted at the top of its tech specs announcement post from two days ago. “We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.”


MS:

5 seconds of google search? Or make a dumb thread on GAF?

Which one is easier?
 

Neo_game

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Probably has something to do with directX and how the coding is done for PS games, especially for PS3. I am sure some sort of software emulation can be made by Sony engineers as well. But for some reason they do not want to bother with it.
 
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Bernd Lauert

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But obviously Sony do care. They have spent alot of time and effort with the PS5 to have BC, and apparently it played a role in the amount of Cu's they chose.
But just take this one point.
The PS5 GPU will down clock to the PS4 and PS4 pro GPU clock speeds when you put one of those games in. Why does it need to do that when a PC games will play on any clock speed. Not only that, but say the new AMD RDNA 2 cards come out that have clocks at 2.2ghz, those games that came out before those cards did will still play fine.
Why?

Because that's the lazy approach to BC, just emulate a PS4 and call it a day. It's the bare minimum they can do, and they'll probably gonna do it.
 
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real reason money stubbornness seriously sony has had and has EA like tendencies. Ps3 comes out cost $600 later on they get butthurt that no one wants to pay that much for a console few years down the line they block ps2 BC on all future models even though the emulation is built into the OS software. PS vita comes out memory card price are absurd no price cuts at all system fails because they bank it all on Cod then soft kill the platform. Sony over pays for onlive/gikei rip getting any hardware based BC even though the ps4 has built in ps1 and ps2 emulation. O and they make a bunch of money on remaster and they started that trend on ps3 when they block BC for ps2.
 
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Aion002

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Different priorities.

Sony believes that to sell a new console they need new games.


Specially now that Jim Ryan is at the top, he said that indirectly if I remember correctly. So for them, the most important thing is to make games that are not available on the older console.

MS wants to sell services... So BC makes total sense.
 

Xplainin

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The opening post is literally lacking any substance whatsoever. Even asking why MS is doing enhanced BC while PS1 emulation was abandoned this gen would have at least started off a discussion.

This is both companies BC plan:

Sony:



MS:

5 seconds of google search? Or make a dumb thread on GAF?

Which one is easier?
You want to compare BC performance of MS and Sony?
How about enhancements such as resolution? How about adding HDR to old games that didn't have it?
Its a none contest. And if you read my post, you would have seen where I also brought up how the changes to the design of the XOX including RAM didnt matter.
 

JLB

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PlayStation owners are more interested in the future of gaming, not the past. That said, PS5 has BC so there won’t be issues bringing our PS4 libraries over with us.

Pff what a ridiculous statement. I guess FFVII or Shadow of the Colossus remakes were bought by PC gamers right?
Have you ever listened Sgt. Peppers, or that is backwards as well?
 
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Tschumi

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Isn't it something to do with Xbox consoles all basically being PCs and the PS2 and PS3 both being really weird bits of tech that are really hard to smoothly emulate without, like, completely restructuring the game?
 

JTCx

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Idk, why cant i play my Wii games on switch?
 
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Different priorities.

Sony believes that to sell a new console they need new games.


Specially now that Jim Ryan is at the top, he said that indirectly if I remember correctly. So for them, the most important thing is to make games that are not available on the older console.

MS wants to sell services... So BC makes total sense.
This 100%

Sony and Microsoft have different ideas on how to build/maintain their brands. Personally I maybe used BC on Xbox One for a total of like 10 hours basically dipping my toes into GTAIV/Portal2/Lost Odyssey and that's it. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have BC with PS1-4 but how much I'll actually use it is slim especially if it's implemented the way Xbox does it with select titles.

Also, I've heard it thrown around and it seems plausible that the Cell architecture it not something easy to replicate when it comes to atleast PS3 BC. PlayStation switching architecture left and right makes that hard.

Only Sony knows why for sure.
 

Iced Arcade

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Microsoft is a massive software/programming corp, PS3's has fucked programming.

Isn't any kind of secret. MS has those programming teams within the company and while BC is great, Sony would need to invest heavily into programmer/engineer teams and that really wouldn't be viable at that point.
 

Zghia

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Because it is not Sony’s top priority, besides they can still make money by releasing he remaster versions
 
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kingpotato

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PS2 could play PS1 games, early adopters of the PS3 had the opportunity to purchase a version that could play PS1 and PS2 games. I'm pretty sure they looked at how many people cared deeply about backwards compatibility plus the cost and decided to axe it in favor of a cheap console with the PS4.

People seem to forget how much time and money Microsoft has spent keeping their consoles mostly backward compatible. Xbox 360 was able to play less than half of the original Xbox library. Xbox One didn't have backwards compatibility for the first two years if I recall correctly. They also have to manually bring games individually into the supported list as well with additional development.

I get the impression Sony is attempting a cheaper solution for the PS5, which is why they say it's mostly backward compatible.
 

ManaByte

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5 seconds of google search? Or make a dumb thread on GAF?

Which one is easier?

5 seconds of a google search and you would’ve found this:
It’s our intent for all Xbox One games that do not require Kinect to play on Xbox Series X at the launch of the console.
 

Xplainin

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Microsoft is a massive software/programming corp, PS3's has fucked programming.

Isn't any kind of secret. MS has those programming teams within the company and while BC is great, Sony would need to invest heavily into programmer/engineer teams and that really wouldn't be viable at that point.
I don't even think that's the reason.
As I said previously, on PS5 the GPU will drop the clocks to match the PS4 and Pro.
When a game is developed for PC, it doesnt matter what the clock is.
What is it about games developed on PS that wont let them run if the GPU has a higher clock?
Its obviously not a big deal as all PC games can.
What is the hold up?
 

Xplainin

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Isn't it something to do with Xbox consoles all basically being PCs and the PS2 and PS3 both being really weird bits of tech that are really hard to smoothly emulate without, like, completely restructuring the game?
I get that when moving from PS3 architecture to PS4.
But PS4 is PC architecture and the same with PS5. It shouldn't be any real issue now for them.
 

EventHorizon

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  • PlayStation has more diverse hardware to support. The PS3's cell processors to be specific is incredibly tough to emulate in software.
  • PlayStation used a more to-the-metal API which is harder to abstract for emulation. DirectX is higher level, so more of the games functionality was in code that Microsoft wrote and could change.
 
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Tschumi

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I get that when moving from PS3 architecture to PS4.
But PS4 is PC architecture and the same with PS5. It shouldn't be any real issue now for them.
i see your point re: PS4 having PC architecture.. but maybe it's the PS5 that isn't so straightforward :p and the games need to be optimised to take full advantage of the new, like, workflow?

Didn't they commit to the top 100 PS4 titles at launch? With more to come? I mean, i can't really imagine many ways to be, like, decisively disappointed by that.. I dunno just guessing~
 
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njean777

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MS has way way way more experience with BC than Sony has. PC shows this. That is really about it. MS owns the PC market when it comes to games, they have a lot of experience with x86 and can transfer that to consoles now that they are x86. Sony not so much.
 
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teezzy

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Sony would rather remaster the old games and sell you them again. Less incentive for people to buy those if you could just buy and old copy and pop it in.

Same reason Nintendo always wanted you to rebuy those Virtual Console titles over and over

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
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I think I remember hearing at least with ps4 and xbox one, Microsoft had an additional abstraction layer so developers were essentially coding against a virtual machine rather than the hardware itself. So Microsoft is able to change the underlying hardware without breaking games easier.

I could be misremembering and making all this up. Although I am pretty sure I remember John Carmack complaining about not having the same low level access on xbox one that he had on PS4 at one point.
 
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Mattyp

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5 seconds of a google search and you would’ve found this:

Someone beat me to it, finding outdated news to post imagine going out of your way to post that. ALL is ALL.

 
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bender

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While it sucks, I think forgoing backwards comparability for PS3 games on PS4 is understandable and forgivable considering the major architectural shift. It will be interesting to see what PS5 offers in terms of PS4 backwards compatibility. Not supporting PS4 games would be much less forgivable given how similar the architecture is and really disappointing considering the prominence of digital purchases this generation.

Sony and Microsoft probably have a lot of data regarding how much backwards compatibility was used on PS3, X360, and One. My guess is that it's probably not used all that much. Microsoft invested in it this generation to garner some good will after how badly the fucked up the launch of the One.
 
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Vaelka

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SoNy iS tOo LaZy

Meanwhile in reality they are too busy actually developing new ip's and ways to play games versus creating ways for you to play the same old shit you have already played to death. New system NEW games, that seems to work quite well for them.

Sony doesn't do this rofl.
Studios that they own do.

Sony would rather remaster the old games and sell you them again. Less incentive for people to buy those if you could just buy and old copy and pop it in.

Same reason Nintendo always wanted you to rebuy those Virtual Console titles over and over

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Also this.
 
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T-Cake

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There has to be a time when Sony either shut down PS3 games on PS Now or write an emulator for PS5. Wonder which one they’ll pick. I’m going for a total shutdown of PSN on PS3 in 2023 with them saying there are things they can’t do for PS5 whilst PS3 is still running.