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[Dr. Claus]

Whales don't increase a games popularity to any real extent. Profitability sure, but not popularity.

All of todays most popular games have Battle passes because the market (ie people) prefer it to all other business models.

I defend common sense and rational thought hard. I'm the Lorenzo Lamas of clear thinking.

Just be straight with everyone and tell us how much you wasted on BattlePasses and GAAS titles.

You aren't using rational thought. You are trying to defend it because you clearly have sunkcost fallacy and dont' want to admit that you wasted your time and money.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Because looting feels like a responsibility you have to keep doing something in a game you don’t enjoy.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Just be straight with everyone and tell us how much you wasted on BattlePasses and GAAS titles.

You aren't using rational thought. You are trying to defend it because you clearly have sunkcost fallacy and dont' want to admit that you wasted your time and money.

Doesn't this tactic bore you?

"You only disagree because (made up reason) and not because you actually believe your position."

It bores the heck out of me.

Btw, I've wasted far more money on SP games that bore me after and hour or two than I have on GAAS titles.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Because they will destroy the gaming world we know and love. Look what happened with cell phone mobile games. In the begging we got cool shit on iphone and android, then it all went f2p and its now full of shovelware and ad supported junk. When is the last time you seen a iphone game like infiity blade? One where it was high quality but you had to pay for? They don't exist unless they are console ports. Same things happening to consoles if we aren't careful. When is the last time we had thrilling good single player FPS games? We really haven't for a while. Think back to the x360/ps3 era and how many full on trilogies or one of games we had that were shooters with stories. Full on 8-20 hour campaigns with multiplayer. Now they don't give you a campaign or if they do its measly 5-6 hours. Most new fps (outside of existing series still being made, ala doom/metro/borderlands) don't even have single player.

I loved buying Kilozone2, Resistance, Cod2-4,waw, mw2, battlefield Vietnam/2/3/bad company/bc2/bf3, Bioshock, Crysis, etc...) all had big campaigns and multiplayer. You got your monies worth. Some even had bots and couch co-op.
When one of those games multiplayer servers were taken offline it meant that the game could still be played. Also unlocks weren't tied to paying real money, there was no devoting your life to moving forward. You could do so very fast. The games were made to have fun not for extracting money using physiological warfare.

I see kids getting hooked on f2p trash and don't touch real games. This means less sales which means less real games It's a vicious cycle. Eventally real games will be niche. You can see this in the music and movies now. Its all slut pop and nuRap. on every top list, no rock, metal, adult pop, old school style hip hop, prog rock, blues, jazz, etc... Movies, its all super hero and disney, films of substance or legit new stories are not being made much at all, but both of those are a tangent that needs its own write up. I digress. back to games.... my point is everything is being compressed to less options, less choice, less substance and fewer creators. It is happening everywhere. The digtial age has serious side effects that we were not prepared for. If people stop buying real games then no new games will be made. Publishers will always take the path of least resistance and green light stuff that doesn't take much effort and makes the most money.

Now I just mentioned shooters, take that and move it to other genres and you get the same thing. These games will have no history as like overwatch they will be pulled, erased from existence, just in time for the next "shiney". I guess thats what gen z wants? The instant gratification gen? Call me old man, or out of touch, idgaf! I like playing games and going back to them years later. I can't do that with gaas.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Simply put, it's impossible to keep up with them. Especially considering progression is typically a tedious grind fest. You can only really play one or two at once. Certain activities can only be accessed once per day or week. All designed to draw out the experience as a means of milking microtransactions. Why spend 20 hours grinding out a season pass when you can just pay to skip it? Why work for that super rare item in game when there is a better looking one you can buy from the in-game store? GaaS could have been incredible if the companies running them weren't so greedy. Microtransactions wouldn't be such a problem if they were super cheap and the game wasn't designed around incentivisation of the paid shortcut. The prices of skins and other cosmetics are a complete joke. It's nothing but a piss-take.

Shout out to games that 'do it right' like Monster Hunter World.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Doesn't this tactic bore you?

"You only disagree because (made up reason) and not because you actually believe your position."

It bores the heck out of me.

Btw, I've wasted far more money on SP games that bore me after and hour or two than I have on GAAS titles.

Are you going to answer or not?

 

[VAVA Mk2]

If you pay me $5 for an answer crate, I will let you know why. If you would rather save money, you can pay me $20 for unlimited answers to your questions all month for a month long pass.

 

[murstdurst]

I remember a lot of praise. People were shocked that the 950v buck battle pass gave you 1050v bucks if you completed it. This "predatory" nonsense started bubbling up around 2020 when every game was switching over to the (superior) model.

I feel this mob mentality shares a lot on common with Creed/Nickelback/Imagine Dragons hate. The vast majority of people can't explain why they're bad bands, they just know certain groups don't like them so they won't either.

It's not nonsense. You're just part of a group that chooses to dismiss every explanation you get as "hate for the sake of hate".

Example, once again... I played ow1 since release, with breaks (sometimes lasting around 1 year). Every time i returned, i had all the new content (and i',m talking gameplay content).
Now they have shifted over to a season pass model, complete with time limited mt. - Already i have had to take a break and i am now behind 1 hero. Which i do not have access to, without paying. This will only multiply and soon after a break, it becomes a price to entry higher than the entirety i payed for ow1.

All of it is designed for fomo and to get people to pay up, because it's time limited... it preys on people and the weaker people are the better for the companies.
Well i chose to just drop overwatch entirely, but that does not mean i clearly see how predatory it is.

Season passes are one of the worst things about gaming, only thing worse is consoles with paywalls for online (aka the biggest scam in gaming).

 

[IDKFA]

I didn't play looter/live service games because I value my time and money.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Are you going to answer or not?

What's your question?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's not nonsense. You're just part of a group that chooses to dismiss every explanation you get as "hate for the sake of hate".

Example, once again... I played ow1 since release, with breaks (sometimes lasting around 1 year). Every time i returned, i had all the new content (and i',m talking gameplay content).
Now they have shifted over to a season pass model, complete with time limited mt. - Already i have had to take a break and i am now behind 1 hero. Which i do not have access to, without paying. This will only multiply and soon after a break, it becomes a price to entry higher than the entirety i payed for ow1.

All of it is designed for fomo and to get people to pay up, because it's time limited... it preys on people and the weaker people are the better for the companies.
Well i chose to just drop overwatch entirely, but that does not mean i clearly see how predatory it is.

Season passes are one of the worst things about gaming, only thing worse is consoles with paywalls for online (aka the biggest scam in gaming).

I guess I'm just assuming you're in such a minority that it really doesn't matter. I can't empathize with people who want to collect and keep things just because they exist. The current model is just simply superior to all other models that I feel you have to nitpick wierd irrelevant issues in order to criticize it.

All business models have their advantages and disadvantages. F2P GAAS is simply the best one.

I don't mean to be dismissive. I just can't understand your perspective at all.

The best criticism against Battle Passes, imo, is that it encourages wacky cosmetics that can butt up against the tone of the game. That particular issue doesn't bother me because I strictly value gameplay, but I can at least understand the criticism.

 

[Comandr]

I think for a lot of people, myself included, they remember when you pay for a game one time and you had the whole experience. In the days of yore, you could buy a full game like tekken, or super smash bros, or halo 2, and you got the complete experience. Perhaps there was content locked behind play, but everything could be achieved and obtained by playing the game, any time, at your leisure. Today, it feels like a lot of games are designed with special editions or preorder bonuses or time locked events gatekeeping various content.

Diablo 4 is the most recent offender that I can think of. If you don't play the beta and get to level 20 or whatever, then you're going to miss out on this super cute cosmetic that you can use in the full game.

This type of marketing preys on human psychology and weakness. The fear of missing out. This case, along with others many would argue, paint Activision Blizzard as a bad actor.

It's hard to get behind a company that - once you realize this - is purposely designing games, or elements of games, to prey on human psychology to make money. It is in every sense of the word, exploitative. And that fucking sucks. And there's no stopping it. That's the worst part.

As someone mentioned above, once they have their hooks in you, that's it. Until human psychology changes, there's never going to be a shortage of people for companies to exploit for money. I fear it's only going to get worse from here.

 

[Guilty_AI]

i don't hate them in concept, i hate how they're implemented sometimes.

I'm completely fine with how Grim Dawn did business for example, sell the game for cheaper, sell some dlc/expansions over time for a higher price than the base game, sell a couple of supporter packs.
No forced internet connection, MP can work through LAN, they're moving to the next game now but you can still buy and play GD and all its dlc for a good price.

On the other hand, i'm not touching Diablo IV with a ten foot pole.

 

[murstdurst]

I guess I'm just assuming you're in such a minority that it really doesn't matter. I can't empathize with people who want to collect and keep things just because they exist. The current model is just simply superior to all other models that I feel you have to nitpick wierd irrelevant issues in order to criticize it.

All business models have their advantages and disadvantages. F2P GAAS is simply the best one.

I don't mean to be dismissive. I just can't understand your perspective at all.

The best criticism against Battle Passes, imo, is that it encourages wacky cosmetics that can butt up against the tone of the game. That particular issue doesn't bother me because I strictly value gameplay, but I can at least understand the criticism.

Nitpick small and irrelevant issues? Damn... so you're saying that the season pass model is superior to the lootbox model, where you got every gameplay content for free for everyone?
Are you employed by blizzard? Because otherwise your post is nonsense!

And no, f2p season pass is not the best one, by a long shot. - Buying a game for full price and not get mt tacked on with fomo is FAR superior. Tha tyou even need someone to tell you that says a lot.

It's fine you don't mean to be dimissive, but you are, like i already stated.... you seem to be a apart of the group that will not even entertain explanations for why and just dismis it as "hate for the sake of hate". I gave you a clear example that no one woudl ever in their right mind think is superior to how it used to be. I mean, i didn't even get into how you actually lost the first game that you had to pay full price for, with this new model...

It's amazing how much you defend this perdatory nonsense.

But whatever, i see you do not have any interest in discussion at all (why even sit on a forum...) so... have a good day.

 

[fart town usa]

I think they're lame but whatever. I'm not in the target audience and I have countless other things to play.

 

[hyperbertha]

"Actually good."
Name one.

Destiny? It's an abusive FOMO grind that is essentially a subscription MMO because if you don't pay for the full year of quarterly content drops, you don't get the bulk of the content they release and you're left behind. Bungie has repeatedly done the bare minimum for years, recycling content, including weapons and maps. They've literally taken away content people paid for and their hardcore fans defend them for it.

Every other live service looter shooter aspires to be Destiny. They all copy the exact same model. Whether it was The Division, or The Avengers, or Anthem, or Suicide Squad... they're all chasing Destiny. And Destiny is abusive af.

Some of them may have started out with good ideas but every single live service looter shooter devolves into milking their fanbase for as much as possible. We saw this exact same thing play out in the MMO genre when everyone was trying to be the next World of Warcraft. They'd fail, then go F2P, and try to milk as much money out of their limited players until the faded into irrelevance or shut down entirely.

"highly addictive"

And there you have the problem. They're games but they're designed to be addiction devices. F2P: First Hit's Free. Once they get their hooks into your dopamine receptors, they begin asking more and more of you. More money. More time. More expansions. Less quality content, but it's okay because now you've become conditioned. Those "active communities" are communities of equal minded addicts. Same shit as slot machines and video poker machines. just with more buttons to press.

Agreed. Destiny fanboys are morons. They are Dopamine addicts pure and simple.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Because it’s brainless top to bottom.

 

[hyperbertha]

If people didn't like Live Service, it wouldn't be the most popular game type in the industry.

I do agree with you about SP being the foundation of game design. Nothing but respect for those legends...but multiplayer will take it from here.

Multiplayer isn't replacing SP. And popular proves absolutely nothing and you know it. Which is more popular? Sopranos or Marvel trash?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Multiplayer isn't replacing SP. And popular proves absolutely nothing and you know it. Which is more popular? Sopranos or Marvel trash?

No one ever said "replacing".

The industry is simply investing more and more into MP. It's surpassed SP and the gap will continue to widen.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I really dislike them because they are generally very predatory. I don’t mind that they exist, but it’s spreading to franchises that don’t need the service and ruining them. Look at the reaction to Avengers, Babylon Falls or Suicide Squad for example. Imo, they are normally very repetitive and shallow. Just keep shooting, grinding and paying money in a seemingly endless loop.

It also gives developers an excuse to release unfinished, broken games that they will complete later. It’s one of the reasons why we gotta wait a decade for improved sequels to our favorite games because these companies are too busy milking the outdated engines and gameplay with overpriced DLC, battle passes, season passes and microtransactions.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Because they’re a slog and they exist purely to get you to spend as much time as possible in them rather than having like a clean, beginning, middle and end. it’s just an endless game that is designed to get you to constantly come back to it and I think eventually it just becomes exhausting.

You might get hooked on one for a while and then after a long time has passed, once you’ve stopped playing, I think most people look back on it and realize that they just wasted hundreds or thousands of hours of their life and have nothing to show for it.

So there’s this fatigue from most people, overall in regards to these live games. And it’s warranted.

 

[Danknugz]

i get the feeling that most "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term) and/or older gamers who grew up with actual good games with legitimate ingenuity, can either sense that these games are bad after playing them for a short time, or know they are bad without even playing them, because at this point there's so much derivation and similarity between these games.

it's also shameful how poorly designed they are with emphasis on convincing young children to keep "going back" to the game instead of actually being fun, makes you wonder if it has anything to do with how kids are way more depressed these days.

 

[Sentenza]

It’s not even a new thing for me. I’ve looked down on loot-heavy games since the 90s.

I absolutely despise games where the core of the gameplay loop is comparing hundreds of items with minuscule variations in stat, swapping them constantly and looking for the one with bigger numbers.

It’s basically antithetical to what kind of experience I want from an action adventure, RPG, exploration game or whatever.

 

[StueyDuck]

I have 1 a life and 2 a job...

Gaming is a fun hobby, when it becomes more than that then it can fuck off and that's exactly what GAAS is.

Also "looters" aren't GAAS and had existed many many many years before that model.

 

[Tygeezy]

It's just endless grinding, over and over and over -- and once you get max gear there is more DLC or a new season and it makes the gear you spent 20 hours on irrelevant. I only had to play one season of Destiny 2 and The Division to realize this type of game was dog shit. No matter how much time you put into it, its never enough and that's the point.

Yeah, I think the thing to do with these games is do enough to experience all the content you want and then just stop playing until the next expansion. Unless of course you just really like the game that much that you can't play anything else over it..

My experience with destiny 2 is I like the campaigns that come with new expansions as well as the dungeons. The seasonal content is just awful though. You're grinding out the same thing all season. The power grind also really sucks in order to play the most difficult content.

 

[Hayabusa83]

Lacks soul. Gave Marvel's Avengers a shot, couldn't beat down robots effortlessly with the Incredible Hulk and promptly deleted it from my hard drive. The only thing that deters me from a game more than live/looter mechanics is unnecessary or bloated RPG levelling mechanics.

 

[Dr. Claus]

What's your question?

You already know.

 

[Strider311]

Because they are often very shallow, low-effort, repetitive experiences. And in the case of actually good ones, like Destiny, I have too many other things going on in my life, between work and family, that I can never hope to keep up with the tempo and I usually miss out on the great things like raids. Just not feasible for me.

I’d rather have more focused, story-driven games than endless cookie cutter looter shooters.

 

[Danjin44]

t's surpassed SP and the gap will continue to widen.

 

[Shadowstar39]

When you're an adult who doesn't have a lot of free time, it becomes very difficult to like meaningless grind

This nails the crux of it I think. It also explains why kids and teens gravitate towards them as well as f2p mobile games. Also the free to play part. These kids have also grown up with it now, it's ingrained in them sadly.

The time constrain thing is also why a lot of adults are gravitating towards switch and steam deck. Being able to play a few minutes here and there of real games that mobile isn't providing. Hit the power button then again to resume where you left off. I know a big chunk of my gaming anymore is on portables and I'm 44.

 

[Kamina]

Hate is too soft of a word to describe the manifold array of negative emotions i hold toward GaaS.

 

[hemo memo]

Personally I want to try different games than being stuck to a single game for a long time. This isn’t marriage.

 

[Zephyrus0]

Because they're all alike.
You've played one, you've played them all.

 

[hemo memo]

Hate is too soft of a word to describe the manifold array of negative emotions i hold toward GaaS.

GaaS is the worst thing that happened to gaming since Farmville.

 

[[Sigma]]

Video covers my complaints well.

 

[hyperbertha]

No one ever said "replacing".

The industry is simply investing more and more into MP. It's surpassed SP and the gap will continue to widen.

surpassed SP in what? Money invested? Does avatar being high budget put it anywhere near an decent movie ever made?