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why do most people only care about graphics when it comes to next gen ?

Markio128

Member
I don't know. I don't know the sales between elden ring and horizon 2.

PlayStation users seems to primarily like exclusives over other games, so I don't doubt that it could sell better.

But elden ring is still both on pc, ps and Xbox.

I don't really give a fuck about metacritic.
And neither would you if it somehow didn't fit to your agenda.

In here we hate metacritic if it's against our agenda or love it if it backs our opinions up.

On Gaf there's more threads about Elden Ring than Horizon 2, and Gaf is mainly PlayStation players so I'd rather use that than some garbage metacritic where fanboys gives something 10 and haters gives it minus 10.
Peace Out Reaction GIF
 
Because what's the point of upgraded hardware if the software can be run on last gen? I bought into next gen for new and exciting things that CAN'T be done on PS4.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
The issue isn't that people care about graphics, when you're going from gen-to-gen, you expect graphical improvements.

The issue is when graphics become the be all end all, like many topics here do. Graphical quality is used as a shorthand for the entire game in many cases and other areas where the game lacks, i-e straight up polish and stability, are often ignored because of shiny textures.
 

K' Dash

Member
Well, most devs are not doing absolutely anything new with the tech at hand, make the games at least good looking.
 

Fbh

Member
Because it's the most straightforward and "palpable" way in which stronger hardware can be used in games.

Things like mechanics, AI, level design, etc aren't that tied to hardware. FEAR still has better AI than most modern shooters, Red Faction Guerilla still has a more destructible environment than most modern games, the world of breath of the wild has more fun interactive physics than most open world games on the more powerful Ps4/Xb1, etc
 
I mostly thought of next gen gaming as a graphics bump until I got a PS5. The Dualsense controller is really the star of the show. The amount of detail in the feedback is incredible.

Playing dirt 5, and feeling the dirt under your tires, the weight of the brakes, the feel of the gas pedal, and the rumble of cars around you. It's truly next level.

I've been playing mostly cyberpunk and Horizon forbidden west lately, but I felt like driving some cars in Gta online. The two thing that jumped out were the loading times, and how hollow the game felt without the next gen rumble. It's enough to make me not even want to play Ps4 games. I can't enjoy driving without the trigger resistances anymore.
What's funny about the dualsense is that I hardly ever notice that it's changing the trigger tension and stuff. Don't get me wrong, it's a cool effect at first, but you stop thinking about it after a while and it's like it doesn't even exist. It's the strangest thing.

If the trigger effect went away suddenly tomorrow, I don't know if I would even know until someone pointed it out to me.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Because it's the most straightforward and "palpable" way in which stronger hardware can be used in games.

Things like mechanics, AI, level design, etc aren't that tied to hardware. FEAR still has better AI than most modern shooters, Red Faction Guerilla still has a more destructible environment than most modern games, the world of breath of the wild has more fun interactive physics than most open world games on the more powerful Ps4/Xb1, etc
I'd go one step further and say that the PS4 gen was a fucking disaster when it came to enhancements in A.I, destruction, physics and yes, level design. It's hard to talk about level design when games are still following the blueprint defined by the first year PS360 games in 2006 and 2007. Nothing has changed aside from maybe mechanics.

The industry has stagnated due to the poor jaguar CPUs and lack of a SSD upgrade in the PS4/X1 gen. Cross gen for the last two years has only made problems worse. That's why everyone only talks about graphics because the devs have let down the industry and have failed to light up our imagination.
 
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Altares13th

Member
again with the old technology , did u even read my post or other comments ? i didnt talk only about the level design , alot of other things cant be achieved with the old technology
I did read your post OP :)
Game design does not need a big CPU in order to be reinvented. But it will help developers achieve something more easily than without. You see, the issue is not that the CPU upgrade is not sufficient, the issue indeed is that CPU cycles are now being utilised for achieving 60fps and more. I mean, even if a game supports quality mode and 30fps, you will never have a developer do other things with the free cycles if he needs to also support 60fps mode for obvious reasons.
What other things than game design are you referring to? Crowd is mostly GPU bound now because they use what is called smart particles.
 

samoilaaa

Member
I'd go one step further and say that the PS4 gen was a fucking disaster when it came to enhancements in A.I, destruction, physics and yes, level design. It's hard to talk about level design when games are still following the blueprint defined by the first year PS360 games in 2006 and 2007. Nothing has changed aside from maybe mechanics.

The industry has stagnated due to the poor jaguar CPUs and lack of a SSD upgrade in the PS4/X1 gen. Cross gen for the last two years has only made problems worse. That's why everyone only talks about graphics because the devs have let down the industry and have failed to light up our imagination.
yeah but people keep saying that its not the cpu+ssd's fault because all those things can be achieved with 90's hardware 🤦‍♂️
 

Fbh

Member
I'd go one step further and say that the PS4 gen was a fucking disaster when it came to enhancements in A.I, destruction, physics and yes, level design. It's hard to talk about level design when games are still following the blueprint defined by the first year PS360 games in 2006 and 2007. Nothing has changed aside from maybe mechanics.

The industry has stagnated due to the poor jaguar CPUs and lack of a SSD upgrade in the PS4/X1 gen. Cross gen for the last two years has only made problems worse. That's why everyone only talks about graphics because the devs have let down the industry and have failed to light up our imagination.

Yup.
I was saying it in another thread but after replaying some PS3 era games on PC in recent months I quickly realized gaming didn't advance a whole lot during the Ps3/360 era. There was definitely some refinement and polishing but games are largely still being made with the blueprint set 2 gens ago.

I don't completely disregard "straightforward" advancements like resolution, visuals and framerate though. Playing a game like Vanquish at 1080p+ and 60fps+ is a pretty transformative experience compared to the original 720p 30fps with drops console experience.

I still think the stagnation has more to do with devs than jaguar CPU's and SSD's though. When I'm seeing better AI in games from 2005 than games in 2020 there's more to it than just hardware. I honestly expect that even once we move to more next gen only games, the vast majority of them will still be made the same, just with nicer graphics. Audiences are also to blame as people want better and better graphics and will start whining the second a dev goes for another approach. Look at the months of whining we've gotten over the graphics of Elden Ring vs Demon Souls even though Elden Ring is doing so much more than a 1:1 remake of the smallest and most linear souls game.
 
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SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
Visuals are the most obvious improvement over older hardware and it's just much easier to market to the masses. Try explaining more advanced AI and physics engines to the average Joe.
Pretty much this.
 
Op should try the rebooted Hitman series

Mechanic, level design, interactivity, AI crowd, and a believable world with every minor detail.

These game are fantastic but was less popular due to locked online content, and a very niche nature of stealth game.
 

Represent.

Member
Because improved graphics = Improved atmosphere and immersion.

And "graphics" also include things like world destructibility
 
Elden Ring made me realized i care less about graphics than I thought. I don't wanna play demons souls ps5 more because its prettier. I appreciate the QOL features far more. Graphics are nice but gameplay is still king.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I personally don’t, most games I have most fun with don’t have high tech graphics and most recent example is Elden Ring.

The thing is usually when it comes to “high tech graphics” they always go for realism for sake of immersion which that’s not really what I want out of my games.
 
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Sosokrates

Gold Member
I dont.
Since the 1x and pro graphics are good enough. Now I would rather devs try and improve all the really unrealistic things which are not graphics. Thinhs such as NPC realism and a reactive realistic environments that age.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
This is the Playstation effect. They have prioritized graphics over fun and their fans eat it up. All other platforms are much more balanced and people enjoy more than AAAs.

PlayStation fans "eat it up" because they enjoy the games. AKA...."fun". If you don't enjoy then that is fine, but it is silly to suggest than PlayStation fans only care about graphics and not having "fun". You do realize that having "fun" is primary motivation for playing video games, right? You really think that doesn't apply to PlayStation fans?

And I see no more "balance" from Nintendo or Microsoft in this regard at all.
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
People are used to big graphical leaps every generation. People will be disappointed if that's all they look for.

Generations are dead.
 

Zeroing

Banned
From PC gamers complaining or downplaying console games graphics, to Xbox fans crying to Phil to make most powerful console in the market…

to people saying Nintendo games are for kids.
To people being angry when Sony showcased indie games…

To DF threads where everyone pretends they are tech experts an argue over graphics and so on… and so on…

It seems everyone wants better graphics…
 

Chastten

Member
Because most people, including 99,9% of the people who visit forums like Neogaf, are extremely casual gamers who don't care about mechanics, design, music, or anything else that makes a game actually interesting to play.
 
Because the press and companies can more easily sell people on wiz bang graphics over other things.

Even then we are still lacking in many areas graphically. As well as sound.

I look back on Deus Ex, Theif, Dead Space, system shock. Games that had interaction with all objects. You could turn on faucets, and move items, npcs reacted and took notice of world objects or things being out of place.

The sounds were in 3d space. Something I only see being done on VR. Ever since the death of the dedicated hardware sound card and the explosion of "realtek codec is good enough". That area hasn't even been touched.
I remember thief or battlefield vietnam with eax and hearing the difference 3d hardware acceleration has. Remember most pc games back then had 3d sound options. Now its just volume up or down levels no EAX etc..

Realtime ligthing. We had the doom 3 engine and the thief deadly shadows/deus ex 2 engine use real time lighting. Your flashlight cast real shadows and it wasn't baked. After those games came and went it went back to baked lighting. Why? because they could use that on something else.

All hope is not lost.
The ps5 has a dedicated sound chip , so hopefully that gets used , and the rest gets emulated on other systems.
Ray tracing tech may bring back realtime lighting. I am not sure how it actually works so I could be far off on that.

Level design is being upped. Look at Elden Ring. A game that isn't elevating graphics, but is elevating level design to the max. Its innovative in so many ways.
 
From PC gamers complaining or downplaying console games graphics, to Xbox fans crying to Phil to make most powerful console in the market…

to people saying Nintendo games are for kids.
To people being angry when Sony showcased indie games…

To DF threads where everyone pretends they are tech experts an argue over graphics and so on… and so on…

It seems everyone wants better graphics…
No, I just want to be able to buy a damn console or gpu for msrp and not have to pay scalpers or spend days on a website and come back empty handed.
I think they need to tackle that issue first. IMO
 
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Zeroing

Banned
No, I just want to be able to buy a damn console or gpu for msrp and not have to pay scalpers or spend days on a website and come back empty handed.
I think they need to tackle that issue first. IMO
Look around you! Pandemic! Global restraints on materials…
 

Stuart360

Member
Its natural with a new generation, especially when we are still very much in the corss gen phase. When new more powerful tech comes then graphics are the main thing to show that off, and there is nothing wrong with that imo.
I just wish console gamers (on the whole) would appreciate 60fps more, i mean that is the real game changer so far this gen.
 

Mr Hyde

Member
For me, this generation with PS5 has been about load times and the Dual sense. The fact that games only takes a couple seconds to load makes so much for the overall gaming experience. It creates a smooth ride where you just have to click on a button and your back in the game immediately. Dualsense is a great upgrade over the regular DualShock, which in my eyes always been a pretty bad controller. But Sony nailed it with Dualsense. I love the features it brings to the table. I wish more developers would utilize the controller in more exciting ways. Good graphics are nice and creates immersion but it's not the be all end all. At least not for me.
 

Zeroing

Banned
Let me explain. No that takes too long. Let me sum up. I was joking about the fog hiding pop-in. BUT THERE IS FOG OUT THE WINDOW!
I know you are joking :p I think it's about what someone said there's no fog on real valleys... I dunno I get very very confused
 

TonyK

Member
I wish people cared about graphics like past generations. Now is all about framerate. We had games at 60fps since forever and now it's next gen.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I wish people cared about graphics like past generations. Now is all about framerate. We had games at 60fps since forever and now it's next gen.

Last gen, games with demanding graphics were rarely 60fps on consoles.
 
Every time when a new generation comes everyone measures how big of a jump it is only by graphics , nobody cares about the mechanics , level design , complexity and interactivity of the world/npcs , AI , better/more realistic destructible environments

I think you're misunderstanding the situation.

Graphics are the most obvious way for devs to show their game is "next-gen" and given the cross-over with PC gamers in communities like this, it's obvious why graphics, resolution and framerate will dominate most of the conversation around next-gen consoles.

That said, it doesn't mean that just because folks talk more about graphics, they don't care about anything other than that. You've drawn a false conclusion there, OP.

People need to be shown what next-gen gameplay is before they can conceive of what it might look like in a game. When next-gen gameplay systems are shown, gamers go fucking nuts, e.g. that enemy rival system in shadows of Mordor, or the free climbing and parkour of the first AC etc...

So it's more accurate to say that next-gen gameplay systems generate more buzz among gamers than graphics, it's just that actual new gameplay ideas that are facilitated by cool new hardware and software tech is few and far between.
 

ACESHIGH

Member
Gamers will only care about whatever their console manufacturer of choice tells them to care about. This time an SSD was the obvious upgrade so everyone should care about load times.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
People have been arguing about graphics since intellivision launched. Why does this surprise anyone?
 

Filben

Member
Every time when a new generation comes everyone measures how big of a jump it is only by graphics , nobody cares about the mechanics , level design , complexity and interactivity of the world/npcs , AI , better/more realistic destructible environment
I think this is because it kinda has to be.

AAA games are so inflated with costs because of ever expanding visuals and scope and hence production value (lots of actors, marketing, middleware and generally very expensive development utilities). They need to sell millions of copies and therefore have to attract the broadest audience as possible and for that need to be looking exceptional and stunning on pictures and footage, and they need to be accessible. So, games get, mechanically, """streamlined""" and usually less complex and generally easier to pick up. Innovation stays often behind. Just look at the typical big sellers and how exchangeable they are in reality, often, a bit hyperbolic, only offering new tapestry in the same old house.

Complexity of AI and interactivity? Funny enough that this was better in Assassin's Creed Unity than in any other AC come after. AI in Cyberpunk is a joke. AI in GTA V is often worse than in GTA IV as many videos on YouTube compared. Remarkable milestones are severely lacking.

Environmental destruction? Almost non-existent and very minimal when I look at The Last of Us 2 or even shooting-focused games like Gears 5 and many others. Destruction as in FEAR (over a decade ago released) should be the bare minimum standard for today and many games, even AAA, fail to achieve that. Control being an exceptional example in how good it could be (although it is a little exaggerated there of course).

NPCs in games like Gothic and Risen (games one and two decades old) felt more alive than in many modern, high budget games, because they now seem to care only about size and scope, because on paper and on videos and screenshots it looks amazing. I mean, look at Cyberpunk and you can't deny it looks amazing. But I doubt someone feels truly belonging to the world with that little NPC interaction and often broken AI.

Mechanically, many games are getting broader, not deeper. Perks and crafting and XP bars seem to be the standard in so many games these days, but real intricate, innovative and next gen mechanics are left on the track.

And looking at Horizon Forbidden West there's little next gen about it except for the visuals. Aloy can now dive and explore underwater levels, which is new in Horizon but far from new in the genre and in games. Movement and combat is more refined than next gen. Visuals are simply one of the top sellers because it's the first you see. Everyone I talked to and showed it says "wow this looks amazing! I'd try it out", even those people not playing at all.

Ironically, if you're looking for "next gen" gameplay you probably have to look at the indie branch of video games.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
A lot of people care about graphics because I think they can show off the new shiny. It’s nice to me to look at for 5 minutes and then if something genuinely jaw dropping happens, I’ll go wow.

but tbh, I pretty much don’t give a shit after 5 minutes and I can jump from a switch to ps5 or high end pc and back and forth. Basically, I’m happy I only care about gameplay because that’s what matters.

basically, I go gameplay first…then it’s performance.
 
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I was saying in some of the old threads before the new consoles came out that I wanted to see improved physics/ai and such more than anything, but I also understand things being more shiny and such is an easier sell. Im hoping for a mixture of both
 
we cant have both because its hard to find a company that cares about both
Yup, very few... I think that ND are in a league of their own in therms of overall attention to details, reactive animation, environment reactivity and "graphics/design"... They offer the whole package, while making great games (I know some disagree about the last point, so do you I'll do me).
 
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