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[Ghost of Caelid]

People often talk about open world fatigue within the gaming industry and it seems more so people are fatigued by the run of the mill Ubisoft style open world. When BOTW came out it seemed like a breath of fresh air and same has happened with ER. With that being said the games seemingly inspired by Skyrim’s more exploratory style open world instead of AC task based open world fair better, why didn’t more developers take influence from it instead of Assassins creed in your opinion?

I’d probably chalk it up to easier to create a guided style game instead of one where ground up is designed to be explored.

 

[Jigsaah]

Think you answered your own question there bud.

I'll add that though there is fatigue of AC style open world games, you can't get fatigued of something unless it was once popular and successful...so people copying the style of AC is the same reason why people make soulslike games. The formula is proven to work.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Think you answered your own question there bud.

Was stating my opinion. Wasn’t really seeking right or wrong answers. Just others perspectives.

 

[SatansReverence]

Because focus testing showed that the target audience with a collective IQ below room temperature struggled to work shit out on their own and instead needed hand holding 99.9% of the time.

 

[ckaneo]

Honestly, most open world faults can be explained by development time and budget.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Might be because it is harder to tell a story when players take a non-linear path. I've hardly finished any open world games though so a Skyrim style approach of several sub narratives could work just as well. It's also harder to work out correctly level scaled enemies and equipment.

 

[Jigsaah]

Was stating my opinion. Wasn’t really seeking right or wrong answers. Just others perspectives.

yea i have a bad habit of posting before i've finished my entire thought. I edited the post like a minute after. You're quick on the draw

 

[EverydayBeast]

Gaming is all over the place, the reception for open world games has been well received.

 

[Moneal]

People often talk about open world fatigue within the gaming industry and it seems more so people are fatigued by the run of the mill Ubisoft style open world. When BOTW came out it seemed like a breath of fresh air and same has happened with ER. With that being said the games seemingly inspired by Skyrim’s more exploratory style open world instead of AC task based open world fair better, why didn’t more developers take influence from it instead of Assassins creed in your opinion?

I’d probably chalk it up to easier to create a guided style game instead of one where ground up is designed to be explored.

A ton do. Most are in the survival genre though. Skyrim and ER are less about the game story and more about world experience. It's why they work as well as they do, with little direction. AC and others are story experiences and focus the player through the story they want to tell.

 

[Damigos]

People often talk about open world fatigue within the gaming industry and it seems more so people are fatigued by the run of the mill Ubisoft style open world. When BOTW came out it seemed like a breath of fresh air and same has happened with ER. With that being said the games seemingly inspired by Skyrim’s more exploratory style open world instead of AC task based open world fair better, why didn’t more developers take influence from it instead of Assassins creed in your opinion?

I’d probably chalk it up to easier to create a guided style game instead of one where ground up is designed to be explored.

Because AC style open world is easier to make

 

[dezzy8]

Cuz Elder Scrolls as a whole plays like shit and looks like shit. It's overrated IMO.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Because Skyrim is an actual rpg. Like classes, being able to to talk to most npc’s, and so much more.

Assassins creed is an open world game, a gta style game

 

[Belthazar]

Because the supposed fatigue for open world games like Assassin's Creed is basically an enthusiast thing, the games are still selling like hotcakes... I mean, Valhalla had the highest revenue in the franchise's history, so the general public is still pretty much in love with the formula.

 

[Ezquimacore]

it's harder to make skyrim than to make assassin's creed. Although in my opinion Odyssey has one of the best modern open worlds.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[synchronicity]

My fatigue with Assassin's Creed happened a couple of hours into the first game. Took it out and was never even tempted to play another.

Skyrim (and TES) may have its problems, but it's leagues better than any of the Ubi formula games for me.

 

[ZehDon]

It's all about "horses for courses". Ubisoft's design isn't meant to be the high point of open world design - it's supposed to be easy to developer so they can churn out 150 hour games every two years. Ubisoft's task-based approach doesn't require proper quest design, requires only superficial location and encounter design, and uses icons on a map to tell a player "you're interested in going here". That's, relatively speaking, child's play. Skyrim's open approach requires proper quest design with engaging writing, entertaining location and encounter design, and some semblance of understanding of what interests a player, or, what entices a player, to keep moving forward. That takes a lot more time.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Is this where we pretend skyrim isn't anything more then the same thing....cut and paste dullness everywhere? After 10 hours of exploring things in skyrim you e found every cave every item and every enemy because it's all the same

 

[adamsapple]

it's harder to make skyrim than to make assassin's creed. Although in my opinion Odyssey has one of the best modern open worlds.

Gonna agree with this. It gets a lot of side eyes online but I personally love Odyssey as a game and for it's amazing open world.

 

[rickybooby87]

I thank the lord every day for ER, here to save us lowly tarnished from the eternal hell that is Ubisoft cooker cutter open world.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

A ton do. Most are in the survival genre though. Skyrim and ER are less about the game story and more about world experience. It's why they work as well as they do, with little direction. AC and others are story experiences and focus the player through the story they want to tell.

Could you recommend any?

 

[kingfey]

Because open world games take 4-5 years to make. Open world games that Take 3 years to make, aren't fleshed out properly. It's why they look like AC games, instead of skyrim.

 

[Husky]

Because open world games take 4-5 years to make. Open world games that Take 3 years to make, aren't fleshed out properly. It's why they look like AC games, instead of skyrim.

This is a really good point. Consider how long it takes for Bethesda Game Studios to complete a game, and then how long it takes Ubisoft Montreal to pump out another Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, and whatever else shares the formula. Even though Ubisoft Montreal is several times as large as BGS (split across several games), and is usually aided by an assortment of other Ubisoft studios, this makes them seem more like an assembly line than a vast company of productive creatives.
The seventh gen consoles received seven Assassin's Creed games. Bethesda Game Studios developed three games in total for seventh gen consoles (Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim). I'd say it's apparent from their design that Bethesda games took a lot of passion to create, and while there are surely many passionate people working on Assassin's Creed, the rapid assembly line keeps them from expressing themselves the way BGS can.

 

[yansolo]

i would imagine its because the ubisoft formula is cookie cutter and developers dont need to try hard to copy it, maybe theyll add their own gimmick mechanic and thats it, it sells because the genre is popular. It's easier than taking a risk, look at cdpr. Although i have to say i didnt mind the job ubisoft did in ac odyssey. My favorite open world in general is probably witcher 3.

 

[Chronicle]

People often talk about open world fatigue within the gaming industry and it seems more so people are fatigued by the run of the mill Ubisoft style open world. When BOTW came out it seemed like a breath of fresh air and same has happened with ER. With that being said the games seemingly inspired by Skyrim’s more exploratory style open world instead of AC task based open world fair better, why didn’t more developers take influence from it instead of Assassins creed in your opinion?

I’d probably chalk it up to easier to create a guided style game instead of one where ground up is designed to be explored.

You make statements like a breath of fresh air about elden ring and Breath of the wild but i have no idea what you're talking about. Those aren't universally accepted ideas. I've played neither.

How did games fair better? Monetarily? Enjoyment? Critiques?

I also played several AC games and have 'explored' in those games. Plus i was very 'fatigued' by the end of skyrim just like all open world games.

You have to be clearer. Give examples. You just make blanket statements that aren't necessarily true.

Then you toss out some thoughtless answer 'I'd chalk it up to....' some puked out idea.

What are we to discuss?

 

[ByWatterson]

Designing something that doesn't appear to be very designed is much more difficult than placing icons on a map.

 

[anthraticus]

Maybe you mean the pre Oblivion ES games, or something like Gothic 1/2 ? Because since Oblivious, they've been 'follow the directions/marker' type games for imbeciles also.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Because focus testing showed that the target audience with a collective IQ below room temperature struggled to work shit out on their own and instead needed hand holding 99.9% of the time.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

You make statements like a breath of fresh air about elden ring and Breath of the wild but i have no idea what you're talking about. Those aren't universally accepted ideas. I've played neither.

How did games fair better? Monetarily? Enjoyment? Critiques?

I also played several AC games and have 'explored' in those games. Plus i was very 'fatigued' by the end of skyrim just like all open world games.

You have to be clearer. Give examples. You just make blanket statements that aren't necessarily true.

Then you toss out some thoughtless answer 'I'd chalk it up to....' some puked out idea.

What are we to discuss?

Huh? I think you starting with “I haven’t played either” means you kind of disqualify yourself from responding to that particular part. BOTW and ER are the highest rated OW games in ages in part because what they do differently. Most people know the difference between a Skyrim style ow, and Ubi style open world so I didn’t really need to expand to much on that. I think you would need to play both to fully engage in what makes them different. In large part they’re great because it’s something you got to experience.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Maybe you mean the pre Oblivion ES games, or something like Gothic 1/2 ? Because since Oblivious, they've been 'follow the directions/marker' type games for imbeciles also.

They have quest markers.

Not a plethora of markers on map detailing every activity you can indulge in.

Even with quest marker, you have to do a lot of exploration/ searching cause of verticality of levels.

Side quests, factions are completely unmarked on map before you find them.

Also different landmarks feel unique and exciting that you found something.

Totally missing in AC games.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

Real answer because telling a story in a non linear open world game never works one of the complaint people have about RDR2, Cyberpunk 2077, AC,GTA ect is that they dont give you enough player agency. If you give a player tons of agency like Skyrim, elden ring, fallout ect then your story or anytype of story wont work in skyrim there are multiple quest lines that you can easily mess up by killing npcs same with the other games i mentioned most people play skyrim and fallout as a gta style game an ignore most of the lore, back drop or anything else or mod the game to oblivion. If any other game decided to have that type of style people will complain even though the amount of people you see begging for the games industry to make games like this most people in the casual and hardcore gamer sphere wouldnt play them.

 

[The Pleasure]

Because focus testing showed that the target audience with a collective IQ below room temperature struggled to work shit out on their own and instead needed hand holding 99.9% of the time.

Or maybe it's because skyrim went to 0 fps and crashed and it made me chrono cross the dimensions to go back to 1996 and yell at Bethesda for Daggerfall.

 

[mxbison]

Much easier to stuff a world with 100+ hours of content in AC style.

 

[sertopico]

Either one or the other, they're both badly designed open world games filled with mediocre content.

 

[Bernkastel]

Is this where we pretend skyrim isn't anything more then the same thing....cut and paste dullness everywhere? After 10 hours of exploring things in skyrim you e found every cave every item and every enemy because it's all the same

Tell me one more open world game where NPCs actually live a life independent of the player like eating, sleeping, working etc. Heck even Witcher 3(which is often praised as one of the best ones in the genre) with way more NPCs then Skyrim, all NPCs are there just like GTA games where they exist to react to you in a scripted manner. No NPCs in Witcher 3 have their own schedule, they are like a scenery. I think this RPGwatch thread illustrates my point really well.

Witcher 3 - Witcher 3 vs Skyrim more realistic npcs?

I was reading a couple articles about how Witcher 3 npcs were more realistic and had a more varied cycle than Skyrims. My guess is that the writers never played either game. If you want a direct comparison, take the first armorer NPC from both games and follow their daily routine. If you ignore...

www.rpgwatch.com

This is another fantastic video on NPC behavior in Bethesda games. Even after they tonned down the dialogue in Skyrim, its still very rare to find many open world games where every random NPC you observe actually lives like a person in that world and has his own daily life.

 

[cireza]

Tell me one more open world game where NPCs actually live a life independent of the player like eating, sleeping, working etc.

Shenmue was very impressive with this. Not a huge world though, but still a pretty old game.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Tell me one more open world game where NPCs actually live a life independent of the player like eating, sleeping, working etc. Heck even Witcher 3(which is often praised as one of the best ones in the genre) with way more NPCs then Skyrim, all NPCs are there just like GTA games where they exist to react to you in a scripted manner. No NPCs in Witcher 3 have their own schedule, they are like a scenery. I think this RPGwatch illustrates my point really well.

Witcher 3 - Witcher 3 vs Skyrim more realistic npcs?

I was reading a couple articles about how Witcher 3 npcs were more realistic and had a more varied cycle than Skyrims. My guess is that the writers never played either game. If you want a direct comparison, take the first armorer NPC from both games and follow their daily routine. If you ignore...

www.rpgwatch.com

This is another fantastic video on NPC behavior in Bethesda games. Even after they tonned down the dialogue in Skyrim, its still very rare to find an open world games where every random NPC you observe actually lives like a person in that world and his daily life.

 

[Haggard]

imho budget,

Creating actual diverse content costs several times more than the copy and paste crap you usually find in open worlds.

 

[BigBooper]

I imagine it is easier like you said.

Can you imagine how awful it would be if all the AC clones had the level design of Skyrim? Where every dungeon or level has a secret exit popping you back at the entrance. I hated that level design.

 

[Hitchyhero]

Can't stand ubibopen world games for this reason. I love open world games if they are done right.

 

[nkarafo]

Yup. Having a short/finite time in your game world makes it possible for devs to "hand craft" realistic schedules for the NPCs. Following a NPC through their 3 day cycle in real time was so good, it felt like everyone in this small world had a life/purpose. Not to mention how this helped make their quests some of the best in gaming.

Which is why the finite time/groundhog day mechanic in this game was so good. It's not just a time limit. It's more like a container.

 

[Clintizzle]

I think reviews is another reason. From what I'm seeing only the souls games and Zelda seem to be praised for the way they don't hold your hand.

I think if any new IP was try do the same, reviewers would really struggle and potentially give it bad scores.

 

[nemiroff]

Elden Ring is one of my favorite games of all time, and I find it so interesting and immersive to not knowing much of anything when roaming its world. Not even the icons on the screen is explained in any way, and I have to figure it out on my own, I love it! But the funny thing is, I also very much enjoyed AC Valhalla (f.ex.).. Despite the designed by committee feel, it's just a well crafted game in my opinion.

 

[Tams]

It's all about "horses for courses". Ubisoft's design isn't meant to be the high point of open world design - it's supposed to be easy to developer so they can churn out 150 hour games every two years. Ubisoft's task-based approach doesn't require proper quest design, requires only superficial location and encounter design, and uses icons on a map to tell a player "you're interested in going here". That's, relatively speaking, child's play. Skyrim's open approach requires proper quest design with engaging writing, entertaining location and encounter design, and some semblance of understanding of what interests a player, or, what entices a player, to keep moving forward. That takes a lot more time.

Oh come on.

Skyrim is a great game, but the writing is mixed. I'd say a lot of it isn't even that good.

Games like Assassin's Creed actually need a better story, as there's far less room to make your own. The modern stuff aside, they generally do that really well.

And for me, here's the thing: every two or three years I enjoy an Assassin's Creed, that I'll likely finish. I never 'finished' Skyrim; it was just too much. And who knows when the next Elder Scrolls game will come out?

 

[ZehDon]

... Skyrim is a great game, but the writing is mixed. I'd say a lot of it isn't even that good...

Your opinion of its quality is subjective. What isn't subjective is the objectively deeper level that Skryim, and all of the Elder Scrolls games, take, with regards to their worlds. There is more purposefully built depth and complexity in a town in Skyrim than there is in any city in Assassin's Creed Origins, for example. As I said, it's two different approaches: Skyrim wants you to explore, and the developers took the time to design the game to make that rewarding in and of itself. Assassin's Creed wants to keep you occupied, and it's design reflects that. "Horses for courses".

 

[Tams]

Your opinion of its quality is subjective. What isn't subjective is the objectively deeper level that Skryim, and all of the Elder Scrolls games, take, with regards to their worlds. There is more purposefully built depth and complexity in a town in Skyrim than there is in any city in Assassin's Creed Origins, for example. As I said, it's two different approaches: Skyrim wants you to explore, and the developers took the time to design the game to make that rewarding in and of itself. Assassin's Creed wants to keep you occupied, and it's design reflects that. "Horses for courses".

Don't go painting me a brush of subjectivity when you clearly have an agenda here.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Imo not many games can match up to elder scrolls when it comes to exploration. Not even botw. What is there, like 4 small towns? Like 120 boring ass shrines? The foundation is there but it's pretty obvious botw was rushed out.

 

[Y0ssarian]

Because Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood are actually fun

 

[ZehDon]

Don't go painting me a brush of subjectivity when you clearly have an agenda here.

Yes, my agenda of calling Ubisoft's tired and outdated open world game design tired and outdated. Blast you - how did you see through my dastardly subterfuge?

 

[ANDS]

I guess games now need a giant banner when they start that says explicitly "You can turn all assistive elements completely."

. . . but then we wouldn't get masterclass posts like this:

Because focus testing showed that the target audience with a collective IQ below room temperature struggled to work shit out on their own and instead needed hand holding 99.9% of the time.

"Gosh why isn't everyone as smart as me."