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Why are there no 1080p 60 fidelity/quality modes options on current consoles.

buenoblue

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Op has a solid point and alot of people are not really grasping what he's saying. There's a ton of 1080p tvs out there. A mode that gives the full graphical effects and draw distance at 60fps, only at 1080p is a great idea.

My 4k Samsung tv upscales 1080p far better and looks sharper than 1440p upscaled by the consoles themselves so I'd probably use a mode like this.
 

Three

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Nobody has explained anything meaningful, im still waiting for a proper explanation.
I have an explanation. It's because it depends on what you're limited by. The two things are separate.

Tasks must complete within frametime

Performance RT: CPU 16ms, GPU 16ms.
Fidelity : CPU 33ms, GPU 33ms
Performance : CPU 16ms, GPU 16

1080p 60: CPU 16ms, GPU 16ms


Now, when you are in fidelity mode your CPU can do more so you can have more crowds, objects flying etc because you have 33ms to do it. Your GPU can also render at a higher resolution. When you're in 1080p 60 mode your CPU still has to finish in 16ms so you have to have lower crowds anyway, your GPU would idle it wouldn't use that power for something else unless you could somehow offload tasks that are CPU dependent on to the GPU which would be an optimisation nightmare.
 
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Three

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- small downsampling or native res in performance (60fps) options

There is no downside really, AT WORST you get native res in performance options.
In some games (OPS example) you get less things on screen too.
 
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Shifty1897

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I don't understand OP's post?

Both Ratchet and Miles Morales have Performance RT modes, where you sacrifice resolution for ray tracing and 60fps. It's literally made for people with 1080p TV's.
 

Three

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I don't understand OP's post?

Both Ratchet and Miles Morales have Performance RT modes, where you sacrifice resolution for ray tracing and 60fps. It's literally made for people with 1080p TV's.
OP wants fidelity mode, where you get more objects on screen, but at 60fps 1080p. This option doesn't exist. Performance RT still has a lower object count than fidelity mode. OP essentially wants to sacrifice resolution for more objects on screen which isn't possible.
 
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Three

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Yep. What's interesting is that they have (way?) more CPU power available in non RT performance mode yet they went with parity in this aspect.
Is the RT CPU bound? I thought performance RT sacrifices resolution for RT when compared to performance mode. I haven't looked at what the average resolutions are between performance and performance RT to be honest.
 

Bulletbrain

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Developers CAN do what the OP wants ofc. A 1080p60 mode at "ultra" settings. But then, consoles dilute their "plug-and-play" USP. Maybe developers think offering too much choice in settings is not what the average console player would want. Already games offer multiple modes (fidelity, performance, performance RT) with little little changes between them, leading to players having different user experiences with the same game, depending on with mode they choose to play. Customizing settings to your own preference is largely seen as a PC gaming feature.
 
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David B

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I can't post my own yet as I'm too new. But I am having constant disconnection issues with PS3, specifically error 8002AD23. It happens every single 3 to 5 minutes, I hooked up ethernet cable, still happens, tried DNS to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, still happens. My internet is century link and I use it's own router modem combo box. It seems to be an error with the latest June 1st 2021 update 4.88. But I have seen others in online games with no problems.
 

ZywyPL

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Becaust it's 2021 and 1080p is dead. There's XSS for those who still use old FullHD TVs.
 
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lh032

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they should make a 540p with 60fps with 8k upscaled + temporal injecting + fidelity FX,

Will Smith GIF
 

Karonoth

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Performance RT modes (what Insomniac is doing) is the closest to that.

But like others have said, putting effort in 1080p modes doesn't make too much sense anymore.
 

Armorian

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Is the RT CPU bound? I thought performance RT sacrifices resolution for RT when compared to performance mode. I haven't looked at what the average resolutions are between performance and performance RT to be honest.

Turning on RT in PC games instantly raises strain on the CPU. I think performance has higher res than RT perf.

What? For 1080p/60...

"We have a product called Xbox Series S".

Aren't there games below 1080p in 60fps modes on XSS?
 

Shwing

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Mate most people with ps5 and series x still have 1080p tvs I have like 10 friends who still have 1080p tvs with nextgen consoles
Just on this point I would totally disagree. Without doubt the majority of people (excluding your friends) with a next gen console will be using it on a 4K TV. No question.
 
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Op has a solid point and alot of people are not really grasping what he's saying. There's a ton of 1080p tvs out there. A mode that gives the full graphical effects and draw distance at 60fps, only at 1080p is a great idea.

My 4k Samsung tv upscales 1080p far better and looks sharper than 1440p upscaled by the consoles themselves so I'd probably use a mode like this.

There is no way that your Samsung TV upscaling gaming content from 1080p to 4K looks better than PS5 games which render at 1440p and are upscaled to 4K. At the same rendering resolution, I’d say sure, if it’s an expensive TV it might be slightly better than the console’s naive upscaling (but not better than something like Insomniac’s temporal injection), but there’s no way that it looks better than the next gen consoles running at a higher rendering resolution.
 

RoadHazard

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Oftentimes there are probably CPU-bound things in the quality mode, for example denser crowds, better hair/fur simulation (maybe part of that runs on the CPU, I don't know), higher quality RT (the CPU is involved in setting this up before the actual ray tracing happens), and similar. Lowering the resolution doesn't save any CPU resources, so you might not be able to hit 60fps even at 720p without reducing some other stuff as well.

Edit: Late.
 
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Aren't 4K TVs like, only 30% of the overall market? Most are still rocking their 1080 sets.
Do you think that maybe… just maybe… enthusiast gamers might have a different distribution of 4K vs 1080p displays to grandparents and casual cable TV watchers?

People with next gen consoles are not mostly “still rocking their 1080 sets”, 4K market penetration is much higher in this group than in the general populace.
 

Kokoloko85

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But we have the option more than ever on consoles since the PS4 Pro and Xbox 1 X.

Thanks to mid gen console upgrades developers are giving the choice more and more and I think its becoming more the norm going forward
 

Captain Toad

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Do they even make 1080p televisions now? Even Walmart has tons of dirt cheap tvs and they're all 4K.
 

FeldMonster

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Aren't 4K TVs like, only 30% of the overall market? Most are still rocking their 1080 sets.
I couldn't find the annual sales breakdown of 4K vs. 1080P, which would heavily skew towards 4K, but penetration of 4K TVs is already over 50% and growing faster than estimates expected several years ago. And that is all homes, those who own videogame consoles are (logically) likely to be an even higher percentage.

It doesn't make sense to waste additional resources on specific settings on a minority and shrinking television market.
 
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If they let me run games at higher settings at 1080, I'd probably prefer to play on a 1080p TV and never upgrade. In fact, were my TV to finally die, I might even seek out another 1080 set if they were no longer available in a store.

In other words, the mode you're talking about wouldn't align with Sony's business interests, so because eff you that's why :)
Unless you're holding on on a Kuro plasma or a good Panasonic plasma (or even a native 1080p widescreen CRT), there's no rational reason for you to stay with a 1080p panel.

Newer panels beat the shit out of older ones. Response time, color accuracy, VRR, better panel tech (from OLED to miniled and up to microled).

Even the best 1080p only display on earth will end up getting murdered from newer panels, eventually.

I'm genuinely curious to know why you're saying that (I still have my 1080p panny plasma in another room, and still really like its image).
 

Wonko_C

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I couldn't find the annual sales breakdown of 4K vs. 1080P, which would heavily skew towards 4K, but penetration of 4K TVs is already over 50% and growing faster than estimates expected several years ago. And that is all homes, those who own videogame consoles are (logically) likely to be an even higher percentage.

It doesn't make sense to waste additional resources on specific settings on a minority and shrinking television market.
I see, the info I got was outdated by like 2 years.

Personally I never buy a new TV until the one I have stops working so I'm in no rush.
 

BlackTron

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Unless you're holding on on a Kuro plasma or a good Panasonic plasma (or even a native 1080p widescreen CRT), there's no rational reason for you to stay with a 1080p panel.

Newer panels beat the shit out of older ones. Response time, color accuracy, VRR, better panel tech (from OLED to miniled and up to microled).

Even the best 1080p only display on earth will end up getting murdered from newer panels, eventually.

I'm genuinely curious to know why you're saying that (I still have my 1080p panny plasma in another room, and still really like its image).

It's for the same reason blu-ray don't sell that well even though streaming won't deliver the same quality. Streaming quality is still pretty much good enough for most people. 20 years ago I wouldn't play a system like N64 or even SNES on a CRT without an S-Video connection, and I routed the audio through a receiver -in other words I've always cared about getting the best possible A/V within reason. Until it just got to a point it was more than good enough for me, and the game content began mattering more than how it was delivered. To me, it's diminishing returns.

I'm still using a 46" LED Toshiba TV that's 10 years old. When I played WiiU games on it, the image quality even astounded my nerdy friend who fixed TVs so every member of his family could have a huge, tweaked TV in their bedroom. We put it through its paces playing twitchy, face-paced games like Towerfall and Smash, in a way that satisfied SFII vets who got their experience on CRTs. When I showed another geek friend Ratchet and Clank 2016 on my TV a month ago, he was astounded at the prettiness of the game, and I swear this is a direct quote, he said "ESPECIALLY on an old TV like this".

Maybe I have the diamond in the rough TV, I only researched and procrastinated finding the right one for weeks 10 years ago before buying, on clearance at Sears for $700 lol.

The TV is just plain good enough for me. I would rather play a game at 1080p on a 46" set with bonkers graphics settings, than on a 65" with resources dumped into 4k that could have been directed towards game content.

I guess that's why, when shopping for a new PC monitor last year, I got a 1080 one because all I want is to be able to snipe head shots at 144hz powered by a GTX 1060. The game graphics have gotten to that point where I can focus more on the fun and less on all the bells and whistles.
 
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Most games that run at 4k ish 30 would run at 1080/60 with zero optimization. My assumption about why it doesn't exist is because it would confuse more people than it would "help".
 

MastaKiiLA

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Probably because a lot of games now started their development on the current gen consoles, before either moving completely to the next-gen, or adopting a next-gen version. The system architectures between current and next gen are much closer than the previous gen and current gen. So in the case of cross-gen games, they're already building to the lower platform, which the next-gen consoles are inherently able to run at a higher resolution. As we get further into the generation, I expect the number of games with a performance mode to drop. I could end up being wrong, but I just don't see it as sustainable once game engines are pushed to the point where they struggle to sustain 30fps in fidelity mode. Taking time out to optimize a performance mode on top of that seems like a waste of development resources.
 

Armorian

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Probability because market, maybe with AMD s new scaling tech they will do it reasonably well

FSR won't change anything. UE4 already has better upscaling/reconstruction tech (even better in UE5) and many devs (Insomniac) have their own methods better than what was shown so far about FSR. Some devs that just upscale their games right now without any reconstruction will use this (and should) but it's not comparable to DLSS and (some) others techniques:

 

Larxia

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The amount of people talking about how 1080p is dead and only 4K matters is kind of baffling, that 4K marketing really worked.
I'm sure most people playing on a TV at a certain distance wouldn't even notice the difference between 1080p and 4K if we didn't tell them, but will still defend 4K with their lives.

It also seems that according to many people, only the resolution matters and nothing else, when I read comments like "1080p quality wut", I don't even really know what to say.
 
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I'm sure most people playing on a TV at a certain distance wouldn't even notice the difference between 1080p and 4K if we didn't tell them, but will still defend 4K with their lives.
Some people said they could not notice the difference between DVD (480p) and 1080p blue ray... Then from 720/900p to 1080p as well.

I'll be the first to admit that the difference is more and more subtle especially with the in-between resolutions, but this is not like a native 4k image did not show any more sharpness, but I don't think it's worth the performance sacrifice.
 

rofif

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They aren't going to put any time into 1080p in 2021, nor should they. That shit is long past it's prime.
Yep. pure 1080p with simple smaa looks like shit. Check out bloodbrne... it looks tragic in 2021 on 48" tv in my face.
1080p IS possible but only with state of the art reconstruction and other techniques
 

Armorian

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Yep. pure 1080p with simple smaa looks like shit. Check out bloodbrne... it looks tragic in 2021 on 48" tv in my face.
1080p IS possible but only with state of the art reconstruction and other techniques

Native 1080p with good TAA (God of war, Uncharted) on native 1080p screen looks good. BB has some shit AA technique that don't even work plus horrible chromatic aberration.

Right now i have PS4 pro and some games are native 4k (doom 3, ezio collection), down sampling make them look amazing.
 

Daymos

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4k is part of the selling point of the new consoles, you lose that and there's no way to market the thing. It's why I don't own one, there's no real point in upgrading past ps4 pro unless there is a 1080p/60fps/RT mode... since the pro can't do RT, and I bought a new laptop instead of a 4k tv. I still see 4k as a dumb waste of money vs other stuff for $500-$1000 that I can buy.
 
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buenoblue

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There is no way that your Samsung TV upscaling gaming content from 1080p to 4K looks better than PS5 games which render at 1440p and are upscaled to 4K. At the same rendering resolution, I’d say sure, if it’s an expensive TV it might be slightly better than the console’s naive upscaling (but not better than something like Insomniac’s temporal injection), but there’s no way that it looks better than the next gen consoles running at a higher rendering resolution.

It's true. I have a 65inch ks9000. 5 years old now but pretty good tv. 1080p upscales perfectly to 4k, being a clean 4x pixel upscale. 1440p just doest fit cleanly into a 4k tv. Still looks good but on my tv it's definitely a softer image than 1080p input. Same on pc, I can run assassins Creed Valhalla at 1440 60hz, but it just looks better and sharper if I play at 1080p with plenty of AA. Obviously viewing distance is important, from too far away it's hard to tell but I sit pretty close when gaming.
 

Kerlurk

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Performance RT mode is 1080p mode. Don't let the upscaled checkerboard image fool you for those on 4K.

Fine by me, as will be playing on my 1080p TV.

Super-sampling for the win.
 
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