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Why are there no 1080p 60 fidelity/quality modes options on current consoles.

abel empire

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Why do we have only 4k optimizations for fidelity/quality 4k 30 and performance 4k 60 and no fidelity/quality at 1080 60, I mean after seeing ratchet and clank and miles morales on ps5 only options are for 4ktvs, surely they could have added options of 1080p 60 quality for people who only have 1080p tvs.

Is there a bottleneck? That stops this games from running at full quality 60fps in 1080p, Is it a memory bottleneck? For instance most differences between quality and performance are usually lower upscaled res, lower crowd density, I mean if devs can optimise for series s. Why cant they optimise for ps5 or series x to have the same games running at full graphics fidelity at 1080 60.

Is it a economic or marketing reason to somehow force people to purchase 4k tvs, especially sony since they make 4ktvs and maybe having 1080 60 quality modes for people with 1080tvs in games like ratchet and clank wont push 4k tvs sales. Im just asking?
 

Sleepwalker

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Forgive me if im wrong, but if you use the quality mode on a lower res screen it still renders at 4k but downsampled to 1080, yeah you might not get the framerate but you do get the better textures and graphical improvements I think.


At least thats what I think my PS5 does when I use it on my 1440p monitor
 

abel empire

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They aren't going to put any time into 1080p in 2021, nor should they. That shit is long past it's prime.
Doesnt need any time doesnt take any time just need to unlock the frame rate in fidelity mode at 1080p but they just arent doing it. And I dont know the reasons why!
 
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hybrid_birth

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Because newa resolution improoves tha graphix.

school dance GIF
 
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abel empire

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Forgive me if im wrong, but if you use the quality mode on a lower res screen it still renders at 4k but downsampled to 1080, yeah you might not get the framerate but you do get the better textures and graphical improvements I think.


At least thats what I think my PS5 does when I use it on my 1440p monitor
Better textures have nothing to do with screen resolution the problem is playing quality mode on a 1080p tv its still locked at 30, so why arent they unlocking it to 60
 
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abel empire

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Because if you buy a TV today it's likely going to be 4k.

Spending time optimising for a resolution that is being phased out doesn't make any sense.
Its not abiut spending time just unlock the frame rate to 60.
 

abel empire

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Because newa resolution improoves tha graphix.

school dance GIF
Your not getting my point on pc I can play ultra settings and lower resolutuin to 1080p and olay at higher fps so why arent console developers unlocking the fps when playing on 1080p to 60 in quality modes.
 

YCoCg

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Because if you're displaying 1080p, then Performance RT mode will be the best option, at that rate you will not notice any resolution drops at all and in the areas it is higher you'll get downsampling. So there is no downside to playing on 1080p on a 1080p TV.
 
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Sleepwalker

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Better textures have nothing to do with screen resolution the problem is playing quality mode on a 1080p tv its still locked at 30, so why arent they unlocking it to 60

I know better textures have nothing to do with resolution but it seems to be thats what you want, because you can already get 60fps in performance mode. They won't optimize for it, Sony wants to sell their 4k tvs, not support your 10 year old tv.
 

abel empire

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I know better textures have nothing to do with resolution but it seems to be thats what you want, because you can already get 60fps in performance mode. They won't optimize for it, Sony wants to sell their 4k tvs, not support your 10 year old tv.
Its not too much optimizing its just about unlocking the frame rate, cause most people have 1080p tvs and want to play in fidelity mode with 60fps so why cant they unlock the frame rate.
 

HAL-01

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Its not too much optimizing its just about unlocking the frame rate, cause most people have 1080p tvs and want to play in fidelity mode with 60fps so why cant they unlock the frame rate.
Fidelity mode still runs at 4K on a 1080p screen, it’s super sampled. Unlocking it will just give you shitty unstable framerate.

It’s not worth the effort to add a whole other profile for what you want
 

abel empire

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Because if you're displaying 1080p, then Performance RT mode will be the best option, at that rate you will not notice any resolution drops at all and in the areas it is higher you'll get downsampling. So there is no downside to playing on 1080p on a 1080p TV.
Performance rt mostly runs dynamic 4k by losing detail, could be crowd density, textures, and people want to play in full fidelity at 1080p 60 so why not give that option? Making a dynamic 4k performance mode is more hard work than unlocking fidelity mode at 1080 60.
 
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GHG

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Its not abiut spending time just unlock the frame rate to 60.

If you want that then there's PC.

They tend to try and optimise whatever modes they put in to console games so that people don't complain about framerates spiking all over the place, tearing, etc. That requires time and testing. On PC they give you a bunch of options and leave the testing to you as the end-user.
 

abel empire

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Fidelity mode still runs at 4K on a 1080p screen, it’s super sampled. Unlocking it will just give you shitty unstable framerate.

It’s not worth the effort to add a whole other profile for what you want
Thats not true. You can easily lock the fps to 1080 60 fidelity, and mind you locked 30fps games are usually 30_45fps
 

abel empire

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If you want that then there's PC.

They tend to try and optimise whatever modes they put in to console games so that people don't complain about framerates spiking all over the place, tearing, etc. That requires time and testing. On PC they give you a bunch of options and leave the testing to you as the end-user.
Im talking about consoles here not pcs. I just dont get why there are no 1080 60 fidelity modes.
 

HAL-01

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Thats not true. You can easily lock the fps to 1080 60 fidelity, and mind you locked 30fps games are usually 30_45fps
No, none of what you said is right. Locked 30fps games are 30, locked. That’s why it’s called locked.

There’s a number of effects directly tied to resolution, like RT which is exactly 25% of the native res. It’s a significant amount of work to optimize other resolutions
 

hybrid_birth

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Your not getting my point on pc I can play ultra settings and lower resolutuin to 1080p and olay at higher fps so why arent console developers unlocking the fps when playing on 1080p to 60 in quality modes.
My post was a joke post and not to be taken seriously.

Serious post : I get your point. I am not knowledgeable about this. Others in this thread are. I don't know why they don't unlock higher fps at lower resolution.
 

YCoCg

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Performance rt mostly runs dynamic 4k by losing detail, could be crowd density, textures, and people want to play in full fidelity at 1080p 60 so why not give that option? Making a dynamic 4k performance mode is more hard work than unlocking fidelity mode at 1080 60.
In Insomniac's cases, they don't reduce texture quality or anything, just density options and the trade off being a harsher dynamic resolution that sits around 1440p to maintain 60fps. When displaying 1080p you're not getting that harsh resolution change, the only thing you'll have to put up with is the lower density but is it really something to complain about when it's handled automatically?
 

abel empire

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No, none of what you said is right. Locked 30fps games are 30, locked. That’s why it’s called locked.

There’s a number of effects directly tied to resolution, like RT which is exactly 25% of the native res. It’s a significant amount of work to optimize other resolutions
You seem to not understand what locked means, they lock games at 30 or 60 to simply have a smoother experience because if it was unlocked itll be flactuating. A locked 30 fps game is usually 30 to 45 fps a locked 60fps game is usually 60+fps

Here is killzone shadowfall with unlocked 30 fps it even hits 50fps in some scenarios
 

abel empire

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It's already been explained to you several times throughout this thread.

I'm simply presenting you with an alternative option that is guaranteed and exists right now.
Nobody has explained anything meaningful, im still waiting for a proper explanation.
 

HAL-01

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You seem to not understand what locked means, they lock games at 30 or 60 to simply have a smoother experience because if it was unlocked itll be flactuating. A locked 30 fps game is usually 30 to 45 fps a locked 60fps game is usually 60+fps

Here is killzone shadowfall with unlocked 30 fps it even hits 50fps in some scenarios
That’s literally what i said in my first post, then you tried to correct me. I’ll just leave you to keep whining since you don’t seem to actually want an answer
 

abel empire

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It is running at 1080p or something lower than 4K. Everything is upscaled now and publishers call everything 4K.
No 30fps fidelity modes are usually full 4k or dynamic from 1900p at the lowest and mostly stay at full 4k, and performance modes are usually 1440p
 

abel empire

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That’s literally what i said in my first post, then you tried to correct me. I’ll just leave you to keep whining since you don’t seem to actually want an answer
Thats not what you said. And your the one whining cause I corrected you. Unlocking 1080p 60 fidelity mode has nothing to do with flactuations, you get flactuations wheb you dont lock the game at a certain fps.
 

Keihart

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Considering most games use some kind of scaling, super sampling and/or dynamic resolution, i have a hard time believing every game would run at 60 by just droping the resolution.

Anyway, unlocked framerates suck ass, it's way more valuable to have some good frame timing and consistent framerate that syncs to the monitor correctly.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

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Better textures have nothing to do with screen resolution
Not true, textures can actually resolve at a higher resolution when downsampling.
When you pick UHD30 modes in games, the internal resolution gets a massive bump over the 60fps mode, so when picking "quality" mode, you're still getting a much better looking image.

It's the same as if you just downsampled on a PC.
 

abel empire

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In Insomniac's cases, they don't reduce texture quality or anything, just density options and the trade off being a harsher dynamic resolution that sits around 1440p to maintain 60fps. When displaying 1080p you're not getting that harsh resolution change, the only thing you'll have to put up with is the lower density but is it really something to complain about when it's handled automatically?
I dont and cant see why I can have high density crowds and fidelity mode options at 1080p 60, you can have low densitylevels at 1440p 60 because its still basically being upscaled to 4k, it just uses more resources than just plainly 1080p without upscaling.
 

Reindeer

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Because according to some stupid logic in the gaming industry graphics are best at high resolution and 30fps. This is feeding on console peasant mentality as many console gamers are ok with this, but in PC space you'll never find anyone playing 4K30 over 1080p60. The tide is changing though, many console gamers are waking up and realising 30fps was a lie.

No such thing as filmic 30fps, you are just missing out on all the detail at 60fps that is covered in motion blur at 30. The image clarity you get with 60fps is far better than upping the resolution.
 
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Hendrick's

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No 30fps fidelity modes are usually full 4k or dynamic from 1900p at the lowest and mostly stay at full 4k, and performance modes are usually 1440p
That's what I said. They are already running at a lower resolution than advertised.
 

abel empire

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Considering most games use some kind of scaling, super sampling and/or dynamic resolution, i have a hard time believing every game would run at 60 by just droping the resolution.

Anyway, unlocked framerates suck ass, it's way more valuable to have some good frame timing and consistent framerate that syncs to the monitor correctly.
Im not saying just unlock the frame rate I said unlock the fidelity mode to 60 at 1080p cause I dont want to sacrifice graphic detail, same way you run ultra settings on pc at lower resolutions
 
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abel empire

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Because according to some stupid logic in the gaming industry graphics are best at high resolution and 30fps. This is feeding on console peasant mentality as many console gamers are ok with this, but in PC space you'll never find anyone playing 4K30 over 1080p60. The tide is changing though, many console gamers are waking up and realising 30fps was a lie.
Im not against 30fps or 60 debate im more interested in knowing why there are no 1080p 60 quality modes? This is what grinds my gears.
 
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Reindeer

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Im not against 30fps or 60 debate im more interested in knowing why there are no 1080p 60 quality modes? This is what grinds my gears.
Because console gamers keep quite and many of them are still ok with 4K30 and actually prefer it. Sad but true. They need to be more vocal about this if they want change, but I don't see it happening.
 
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BeardGawd

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Lower resolution does not always equal higher framerate. There could be other bottlenecks like the CPU.

Plus the game might already have "ultra" settings at 1440p at 60fps. What would be the point of lowering the resolution at that point?
 
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abel empire

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Not true, textures can actually resolve at a higher resolution when downsampling.
When you pick UHD30 modes in games, the internal resolution gets a massive bump over the 60fps mode, so when picking "quality" mode, you're still getting a much better looking image.

It's the same as if you just downsampled on a PC.
The texture is stored as is whether its 4k or 1080 doesnt matter the screen resolution, the resolution only affects how youll see the texture if your on a 1080p screen youll see the texture at 1080p even if its a 4k texture. Its just a physical law.
Its like looking at a 4k tv add on a 720p tv and saying wow that tv looks crisp! Nope that doesnt exist.
 
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abel empire

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Lower resolution does not always equal higher framerate. There could be other bottlenecks like the CPU.

Plus the game might already have "ultra" settings at 1440p at 60fps. What would be the point of lowering the resolution at that point?
If a game is 1440p 60 ultra then fair enough im talking of the games that only havea 1440p 60 with less detail
 
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Theres alot of overhead on PS5/SeriesX. They have to put in work to have games running 1080p 30 on PS4z
 

Reizo Ryuu

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The texture is stored as is whether its 4k or 1080 doesnt matter the screen resolution, the resolution only affects how youll see the texture if your on a 1080p screen youll see the texture at 1080p even if its a 4k texture. Its just a physical law.
You have no idea how downsampling works, as soon as the textures can be rendered at a higher screen resolution, the downsample retains most of that rendered detail:
1080p vs downsampled 1080p:


The same happens when you select a "quality" mode on the consoles.
 

01011001

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Why do we have only 4k optimizations for fidelity/quality 4k 30 and performance 4k 60 and no fidelity/quality at 1080 60, I mean after seeing ratchet and clank and miles morales on ps5 only options are for 4ktvs, surely they could have added options of 1080p 60 quality for people who only have 1080p tvs.

Is there a bottleneck? That stops this games from running at full quality 60fps in 1080p, Is it a memory bottleneck? For instance most differences between quality and performance are usually lower upscaled res, lower crowd density, I mean if devs can optimise for series s. Why cant they optimise for ps5 or series x to have the same games running at full graphics fidelity at 1080 60.

Is it a economic or marketing reason to somehow force people to purchase 4k tvs, especially sony since they make 4ktvs and maybe having 1080 60 quality modes for people with 1080tvs in games like ratchet and clank wont push 4k tvs sales. Im just asking?

??? have you seen the analysis by Digital Foundry of Ratchet and Spider-Man? they literally drop to 1080p in the "quality performance mode" aka RT Performance mode... meaning if they would make a 1080p60fps mode, it would look identical to what they look now, only that you would lose detail you get if you play on a 4K TV and the game has enough headroom to scale up higher + temporal injection which makes it look even better than that.

so that's why there is no 1080p60 mode for these 2 specifically... the answer is, you already have the 1080p60 mode right there.
 
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Armorian

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With currently released games on 1080p screen you will get:

- almost 4x downsampling with games in their quality/resolution modes (usually 30fps)
- small downsampling or native res in performance (60fps) options

There is no downside really, AT WORST you get native res in performance options.
 

M1chl

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If you choose 4k, then you get downsampled image (on Xbox mandatorily and on PS5 most often than not) and for the performance question, nothing scales linearly, so you don't know that if game is 4K/30 that you have enough memory bandwidth to just put all of those thing on screen to 60FPS and more importantly, you don't know if the game isn't already maxing the CPU, at 30hz. There isn't any rules that 4K30 game could be 1080p/60 and vice versa. People maybe see the pattern from some games, but it's not that simple. Devs can only do that if there is enough headroom for higher fps/bigger resolution.
 

99Luffy

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With the existence of the Series S, every multiplatform game will have a mostly optimized 1080p version of the game..
I do think we will see more 1080p games though, they'll call it the 90-120fps super performance setting. I believe Devil May Cry already did it.
 
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BlackTron

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If they let me run games at higher settings at 1080, I'd probably prefer to play on a 1080p TV and never upgrade. In fact, were my TV to finally die, I might even seek out another 1080 set if they were no longer available in a store.

In other words, the mode you're talking about wouldn't align with Sony's business interests, so because eff you that's why :)
 
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