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Where does this nonsense that 343 hasn't been a successful developer for Microsoft come from?

Oct 4, 2013
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www.thunderboltgames.com
 

Andodalf

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False equivalency OP. You don't need to compare to outside games when the Halo series sales track record shows you where it should have been -

2001 Xbox Halo: Combat Evolved 5.5 million
2004 Xbox Halo 2 8+ million
2007 Xbox 360 Halo 3 14.5 million
2009 Xbox 360 Halo Wars 2.62 million
2009 Xbox 360 Halo 3: ODST 6.35 million
2010 Xbox 360 Halo: Reach 9.87 million
2011 Xbox 360 Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary 2.43 million
2012 Xbox 360 Halo 4 9.75 million
2014 Xbox One Halo: The Master Chief Collection 5+ million
2015 Xbox One Halo 5: Guardians 5+ million


So you can clearly see a steady decline in mainline Halo games sales. Gamers expected a lot from Halo 4 and it went downhill from there.

It's still crazy to me we're pushing 6-7 years of no Halo titles. Mental. How 343 think this is a step forward is beyond me. I'll take the output of studios such as Respawn over 343 any day. Fuck I wish Respawn were just given the franchise at this point. The handling of MCC playlists and sheer focus on esports out of 343 shows me they still don't get Halo (at least what I and my Halo buddies want from it). I hope to be proven wrong with Infinite's release and will happily eat crow if it's stellar but from what I've seen so far it's pretty derivative. At least gamepass puts me in a place to enjoy Infinite without the 5 year bullshit like MCC first.

The last thing I want is a rushed game from 343, I'm glad they're getting the time they want. 4 was rushed to launch on 360 before the one came out, and 5 was rushed as a hail Mary to save the X1.
 

Darrec

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Jul 5, 2019
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Ridiculous. Ask any Halo fan their thoughts on the franchise since 343 took over and you couldn't get a more divided answer, that's not a sign of success at all. 343's game sales were "succesful" on name alone.
 

eastcoastkody

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Nov 5, 2016
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Ok, but imagine if Sucker Punch got sick of making Ghosts of Tsushima games. And Sony bought the IP and gave it to some random studio. And they put out a bunch of bad Ghosts games.....but they still sold 5+ million each.

this is where Halo & Gears are at
 
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Ar¢tos

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How is it remotely possible that I get a significant ban threat for making this thread from the moderation team? Somehow I'm being accused of low level antagonism and incitement... and I don't understand how when I'm having a genuine discussion and engaging on metrics of success I think are fair and are universally held for other major releases about what this studio has done, and why I feel they're unfairly characterized as a bad studio. Is the thread defending an Xbox studio and their work automatically incitement?

I see people make threads targeting/attacking the merits and qualifications of game industry professionals solely based on studio pictures, what they look like and whether a studio appears to have too many women (because women are fucking incompetent I guess), or whether they appear to place any kind of importance on diverse hiring practices, and I wonder does any of that crap illicit similar threats? I still see them.

I get it, though, I see what's going on, it's silly shit, and completely ridiculous. The tiniest things I say or do you're itching to ban me for outright bull, but I don't see that strict standard or rule applied to any of the regular bad actors I see post on here all the time and apparently have carte blanche to be assholes, however, whenever, and I think we all know why. I won't bother posting here anymore.

You win. Do your worst cause I'll be damned if I can't speak my mind and have to walk on eggshells cause some of you are so fucking sensitive about vocal Xbox fans.

Barack Obama Mic Drop GIF
Funny...
Most people saying that 343 Halos are inferior compared to Bungie's ARE XBOX FANS!
You simply covered your ears and started singing because you never created the thread with intent of starting a honest discussion, you wanted to shove your beliefs into everybody else's heads.
 
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Havoc2049

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How is it remotely possible that I get a significant ban threat for making this thread from the moderation team? Somehow I'm being accused of low level antagonism and incitement... and I don't understand how when I'm having a genuine discussion and engaging on metrics of success I think are fair and are universally held for other major releases about what this studio has done, and why I feel they're unfairly characterized as a bad studio. Is the thread defending an Xbox studio and their work automatically incitement?

I see people make threads targeting/attacking the merits and qualifications of game industry professionals solely based on studio pictures, what they look like and whether a studio appears to have too many women (because women are fucking incompetent I guess), or whether they appear to place any kind of importance on diverse hiring practices, and I wonder does any of that crap illicit similar threats? I still see them.

I get it, though, I see what's going on, it's silly shit, and completely ridiculous. The tiniest things I say or do you're itching to ban me for outright bull, but I don't see that strict standard or rule applied to any of the regular bad actors I see post on here all the time and apparently have carte blanche to be assholes, however, whenever, and I think we all know why. I won't bother posting here anymore.

You win. Do your worst cause I'll be damned if I can't speak my mind and have to walk on eggshells cause some of you are so fucking sensitive about vocal Xbox fans.

Barack Obama Mic Drop GIF
I think it's because your original post comes of as being tone deff, almost to the point of being trollish. I've been a big Halo fan since Mac World '99 and it cemented with the launch of Halo CE and the OG Xbox. The disasters that 343 presided over with the horrible launch of MCC and horrible reveal/development hell of Infinite are well documented. Fans not being happy with the complete packages of Halo 4 and Halo 5 for numerous reasons is common knowledge. Halo's slide on the Live charts is there for everyone to see, as in Microsoft's portfolio of IPs; Minecraft, Forza and Sea of Thieves all chart higher. On Steam, the Age of Empires series, Sea of Thieves and Flight Simulator generally chart higher. Bungie's own Destiny series destroys Halo on both the Live and Steam charts.

Ya, it's not all doom and gloom. The online community is still healthy enough that I have no problem finding games, but it is no where near what it once was. Hopefully Joe Staten can reverse course and bring back some of the glory and magic that the Halo franchise had in the past.
 
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evanft

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  • Halo 4: Garbage
  • Halo MCC: Took half a decade to fix
  • Halo 5: Garbage
  • Halo Infinite: Delayed over a year cause the first trailer looked like garbage
This is not difficult.
 

Kev Kev

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Oct 25, 2012
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The more popular a brand is the more critical people will be towards it
 

Captain Toad

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4 is a turd, 5 is decent, hopefully they knock it out the park with Infinite.
If they do, it will be more due to the external teams they're bringing in. When it was just 343, the game was a disaster after its initial showing, resulting in a full year delay, despite it supposed to be the focal point of the entire Series S/X launch.
 
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Mister Wolf

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4 is a turd, 5 is decent, hopefully they knock it out the park with Infinite.
If they do, it will be more due to the external teams they're bringing in. When it was just 343, the game was a disaster after its initial showing, resulting in a full year delay, despite it supposed to be the focal point of the entire Series S/X launch.

Poor leadership. Thankfully MS has brought back a Halo veteran to run the ship.
 

Negotiator101

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If they do, it will be more due to the external teams they're bringing in. When it was just 343, the game was a disaster after its initial showing, resulting in a full year delay, despite it supposed to be the focal point of the entire Series S/X launch.
This last year is mostly polishing the game and improving the graphics. The game has been in development for many years, if its a great game its down to 343i no one else.
 

01011001

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Dec 4, 2018
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Scoring mid/high 80s is considered utter trash right?






But only if its from Xbox Game Studios obviously.



all I know is using review scores, especially aggregated ones from sites like Metacritic is a trash way to argue a game is good or a studio did a great job.

game review scores are worth literally nothing
 
Mar 7, 2017
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Ghosts of Tsushima, a game many consider to be one of the best titles released by Playstation this generation, a massive success and huge step up in quality for developer Sucker Punch is fantastic work by a great studio.

People point to the sales of the game as a sign of its success. People consider Sea of Thieves a huge success for Microsoft. They point to the sales of Forza Horizon that it's a success for Microsoft, and Playground is doing an amazing job.

Ghosts of Tsushima sold just over 5 million copies since its launch in July.


Halo 4 had a large $220 opening, was the third best selling game of the year in the U.S. that year, and apparently sold over 5 million copies in the USA alone, and has apparently sold nearly 9 million copies overall. An example of what it did at launch. No shame in being beat by Call of Duty in sales. Halo 4 has sold nearly 10 million copies, near the latest God of War that crossed 10 million...


Halo 5, the game everybody says is this big failure, here is 343's Frank stating that it sold 5 million copies at 3 months.




Halo Master Chief Collection, not even including the Xbox releases, sold almost 2 million on Steam.


Any other studio with these accolades would not be described as a failure, or a "terrible" developer.

Last of us 2 sold like 4 million copies I think on release, and I think is being outsold by Ghosts of Tsushima.

How exactly is the criteria for success for every other major game out there, particularly major Sony first party exclusives, suddenly different when it comes to, by the numbers, easily Microsoft's top selling game studio that is doing equally successful numbers? How are they a trash or terrible developer when they keep putting out enough quality that people are buying the games in the many millions of numbers equal or better to many of Sony's biggest and best titles, and Halo 5 did it's 5 million+ on a significantly smaller install base compared to PS4. Does this fact not mean a thing? What do you think Halo 5 would have sold if it Xbox One had sold as much as Playstation 4 did? Surely quite a bit more than it did.

The outer worlds by Obsidian is considered a big success, and has sold over 2 million copies, and that's even while being a multi-platform title that released on PS4 and PC. How is 343 who accomplished this with Master Chief Collection just on Steam a failure of a studio?

Even the highly successful Forza Horizon 4 did over 2 million it's first week, and I believe by now has crossed 7 million or so? How is Playgrounds a success but 343 a failure? It makes no sense.


343 are being judged by a set of rules that are so strange because even with the complaints and the whining about the choices they make for the Halo titles they've put out, they keep putting up the big numbers regardless. And no, it isn't enough to just say "Oh, well, that's just cause it's Halo" They're putting up the numbers.

And for the people who will use player count as a sign, there's a crap ton of other things out there in the MP shooter arena for people to play than there ever was back when Halo was seen as the dominant console shooter by far. Maybe, just maybe, the Halo community is much more interested in the epic campaign, playing a some MP and then moving on to something new than people care to admit? Is it bad for Ghosts of Tsushima that many have started playing other things? What about the Last of Us II? What about God of War? Yes, I know Halo is a major MP franchise also, but I don't feel that does anything to diminish the success 343 has had with the franchise. People sometimes buy, enjoy and just move on to the next. And I stress again the increased competition in this space compared to any previous time. Halo MP going free to play I think is the right move and something which will have a pretty major impact.

Another overlooked factor because we can already play Halo on PC is that Halo Infinite will be the very first Halo game to ever launch on PC simultaneously with the Xbox console release.

Back to the point. By no common sense measure is 343 somehow Microsoft's worst developer or a developer that isn't getting the job done. Countless studios would trade places for their so called "abysmal" track record in a heart beat. Any notion 343 is among Microsoft's worst developers is utter bs. Their games are well optimized, amazingly well optimized, their games are beautiful. Say what you want about them, but their games are all beautiful, which some failed to ever admit until it was useful for trolling Halo Infinite's initial gameplay reveal, which admittedly needed to be so much better.

But remember one thing: that Halo Infinite people saw was never released, and still has nearly 7-9 more months left in development. What's the next argument? Resources that they have? Even with the resources they have their results have not at all been terrible or subpar. 343 is selling the same numbers that Sony's best games are, and they're doing it with a significantly smaller install base of consoles.

Rant over.
drive off 50 cent GIF
 

Tg89

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Cause the games suck. Any game with Halo in the title will sell, not exactly an accomplishment.
 

Sakura

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During it's First Week Halo 5 Reaches $400 Million in Sales to Become Biggest Halo Launch Ever

What is your point with launch week dollar figures? Especially when it also includes hardware.
We already know that Halo 5 sold less than Halo 3. We know Halo 3 sold 8.1 million in the first three months or so, and we know Halo 5 only sold ~5 million.
Halo 3 also had sold 14.5 million by the end of 2012. What is Halo 5's LTD sales? Who knows because Microsoft doesn't talk about it. Wonder why.
 

sobaka770

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Jun 25, 2013
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Your post: Garbage

This last year is mostly polishing the game and improving the graphics. The game has been in development for many years, if its a great game its down to 343i no one else.

Calm down there, 343i defense force. Do you work there or what? Or do you have a crush on Bonnie?

I don't care for Halo much but I can tell you that graphics was not the only issue with that reveal last year. After the game got pulled from release by a whole year, MP and SP got split and several Microsoft studios asked to assist in development, your claim that it is just graphics and polishing doesn't hold any value.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Mar 31, 2011
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all I know is using review scores, especially aggregated ones from sites like Metacritic is a trash way to argue a game is good or a studio did a great job.

game review scores are worth literally nothing

Give me a better way.
Cuz weve already gone through money nope, sale nope, reviews nope.
So how do we gauge a good game?
 

MonarchJT

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Sep 25, 2020
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How is it remotely possible that I get a significant ban threat for making this thread from the moderation team? Somehow I'm being accused of low level antagonism and incitement... and I don't understand how when I'm having a genuine discussion and engaging on metrics of success I think are fair and are universally held for other major releases about what this studio has done, and why I feel they're unfairly characterized as a bad studio. Is the thread defending an Xbox studio and their work automatically incitement?

I see people make threads targeting/attacking the merits and qualifications of game industry professionals solely based on studio pictures, what they look like and whether a studio appears to have too many women (because women are fucking incompetent I guess), or whether they appear to place any kind of importance on diverse hiring practices, and I wonder does any of that crap illicit similar threats? I still see them.

I get it, though, I see what's going on, it's silly shit, and completely ridiculous. The tiniest things I say or do you're itching to ban me for outright bull, but I don't see that strict standard or rule applied to any of the regular bad actors I see post on here all the time and apparently have carte blanche to be assholes, however, whenever, and I think we all know why. I won't bother posting here anymore.

You win. Do your worst cause I'll be damned if I can't speak my mind and have to walk on eggshells cause some of you are so fucking sensitive about vocal Xbox fans.

Barack Obama Mic Drop GIF
Don't worry it's how the things goes here ..mods did the same with me ....having objectively right for pretty much everything i said in the dieshot thread .....of course what i said had support from Locuza explanation ..the dieshot itself (and all the tech expert saying the same things) and also with what Stanard said. I asked for explanations and on what well-founded grounds they had deciding that my ideas did not correspond to the truth and that i needed to be silenced. They never answered me and I keep getting muted in that thread. Of course there are the usual two or three (famous for their bias) in the same thread that can keep saying nonsense and fud even after being officially denied even from 1 engineer of the console itself.
 
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Radical_3d

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What are you all talking about trashy Halo games. I've been playing them since 2014 and they all felt great.
 

BlackTron

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Halo 5 did 5 million+ on Xbox One with a way smaller install base. It isn't very difficult to see where the series would be on an even bigger install base.

Once upon a time, Halo built the hardware install base for all the other games.

Halo is selling based mostly on its past reputation. It's like Sonic. Its brand recognition is so strong that it still moves games, but they aren't head turners or system sellers anymore.

Halo 4 and 5 each carried flaws that held them back from the expectations of the Halo brand. They totally botched the launch of the MCC on Xbox and never got around to fixing it until YEARS later MS decided they gave a rat's ass about their flagship game. Then the reveal of Halo Infinite was embarrassing.

Sure they had big shoes to fill which is challenging, but this is a trainwreck. People should be buying an Xbox to play Halo. Not its biggest defenders saying "imagine if there was a bigger install base!"
 

BattleScar

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None of what either of you two said are supported by the numbers. The commercial success of the titles do not agree with you. People have this rose colored lense of what the "community" was. I've never found Halo's MP impressive from the very start. I never saw what the hell people were all that amazed with, and I still don't to this day as a big Halo fan. I play Halo only for the campaigns and the story. I still can't get all that excited for Halo multiplayer. This may sound harsh, but maybe, just maybe, people are seeing that Halo MP was never really all that mindblowing from the start? Maybe with more shooters becoming more prominent on consoles where Halo isn't the sole big dog anymore people aren't experiencing the same draw that the rest of you are? No Halo title plays better than Halo 5. Even a non-interested Halo MP player like me can clearly see that the gameplay in Halo 5 murders the previous titles. Is it really just sprint that has everybody mad? The clambering? Nah. People like the quick kills of COD and the instant reflex desert eagle headshots of Counter-Strike at its peak. Where have those bad ass 3 vs 1 situations gone?

I was a PC CS 1.5/1.6 player, and I felt Halo MP was blah. I really don't think whether it was in terms of skill, just fun to watch, that any of that was ever really more exciting than watching two amazing teams go at it in HLTV (btw does anything on consoles match watching a live match via HLTV yet????) in a big lan event in cs 1.5/1.6 back in the old CPL, ESWC days. Counter-Strike 1.5/1.6 matches have always looked like they were more interesting and packed more skill, excitement than Halo ever did, but that's just me.

If the games suck then why are people buying them? They clearly do not suck even if you don't like them. And they are selling these numbers with significantly smaller install bases compared to its competition. There's a lot more competition now in the shooter scene. If Halo is doing 5 million+ on Xbox One consoles alone, what do you think it would do as a multi-platform release that goes to Xbox and Playstation? 343 is a successful developer by any credible measurement. Please don't tell me metacritic is credible because it isn't.
Things don't need to be good to be popular.

For example, the age-old punching bag - Twilight.
 
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Raa

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I thought Halo 4 was the best game in the series, and by far the most technically accomplished. I’ve not played 5 though.

Outside of some interesting outdoor areas in the first three, there sure was a whole bunch of dull copy and paste corridors in most of the other levels.

That’s what ultimately keeps me from finding Halo such a big deal like some others do; fuck me it has some boring ass recycled level design.
Halo 4 is the worst in the series(debatable with 5 which is also a turd) and nothing like a Halo game. It had a boring uninspiring campaign and terrible characters, a generic uninspiring art style among generic gameplay.
 

NinjaBoiX

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Halo 4 is the worst in the series(debatable with 5 which is also a turd) and nothing like a Halo game. It had a boring uninspiring campaign and terrible characters, a generic uninspiring art style among generic gameplay.
I couldn’t disagree more.

I actually engaged with the story and characters in Halo 4 after the tedious, pompous guff of the originals, I specifically remember actually enjoying the cut scenes rather than being bored to tears (I honestly couldn’t relay the story from any of the first three). And I really enjoyed the art style, again, far more attractive and engaging to me.

I guess you could argue that the gameplay wasn’t “the same”, but you could also argue that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

For what it’s worth, I really liked ODST and Reach. I just honestly don’t think the original trilogy is all that great, despite how innovative it was at the time.