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Where does this nonsense that 343 hasn't been a successful developer for Microsoft come from?

MCplayer

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343 Halos might be good games (not for me) but they aren't good Halo games if you know what I mean
 

Andodalf

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Microsoft seems afraid to make anything "new" from an IP perspective.

And TBH... "people who just want to make one thing" are not what I'd describe as the epitome of creativeness.

You will be more likely to lose talented people who DONT want to create the same thing over and over. It's not a way to foster talent; that's really across all software development not just gaming.
While I agree that they'll absolutely lose people by sticking with one IP, I think having people come and go is good for IP to not grow stale. And the alternative is either to rotate who makes the IP, which almost never goes well, or have the IP go dark for a decade + like TES, which just doesn't work for something like Halo and gears which MS clearly wants to be mass market IP that are cross media.


On the Forza front, I'd say their games being named forza isn't a big deal, they make racing games, and their racing games are called forza. They do what they want inside of that space. Asking a racing studio to make non racing games is something they may not want to do. Playground wanted to do just that, so MS gave them a solid IP, which makes it safer to invest in what is otherwise a risky project. MS is risk averse, but the other side of that coin is being able to throw their money behind projects in big ways.
 

NullZ3r0

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Talk your shit, Senjutsu.

I loved Halo 4. They went for a more realistic artstyle and got rid of those dreaded hand-made animations in the previous games and opted for PCAP. The gameplay was also more varied and I loved the story. The only issue with the game is that the Prometheans were boring bullet-sponges.

I hated Halo 5 though. Not because of the gameplay but the godawful characters. It's like the game was designed by a focus group. Team Osiris was boring and they had the depth of a puddle of piss on a toilet seat. By jumping between two teams we couldn't bond with the characters like we did with the ones in Halo Reach. I felt stunned and saddened when Kat was assasinated in Halo Reach. The same is true with George. I didn't care anything about Team Osiris.

Team Osiris should have had their own spin-off game kind of like ODST.

That's where 343 needs to go next. They need to free themselves of the Master Chief saga and explore other stories in the Halo universe. I would love to play prequel games from the perspective of the Sangheli. I would love to explore things like the Grunt rebellion and stories about how the Covenant formed. 343 will have the creative freedom to explore those stories without the burden of "staying true" to earlier Halo games (whatever the hell that means). A ODST looter shooter in the vein of The Division would be cool.
 
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Its more that 343 doesn't really make good or memorable games. Halo used to be an IP as big and as popular as any other game franchise out there. Now its kind of a joke and the last major exposure of the series I am aware of is a meme making fun of how bad the character models look.
 
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PontiusFeeb

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Well lets not forget Pandemic affected development for lot of games. We don't know what exactly happened, so lets not become arm chair analyst and start shitting without knowing actual reason for delay. Not all studios can work effectively from home.

Last of us 2 and Uncharted 4 both were delayed multiple times by an year and there was no pandemic affecting development
Has 343 had Covid since 2015? That's how long they're had to make the next Halo. Maybe it affected their judgement in thinking their Infinite demo was ready to show.
 
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SenjutsuSage

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Its more that 343 doesn't really make good or memorable games. Halo used to be an IP as big and as popular as any other game franchise out there. Now its kind of a joke and the last major exposure of the series I am aware of is a meme making fun of how bad the character models look.

Halo 4 has the most memorable campaign by far for me, especially that ending.
 

Andodalf

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Halo 4 has the most memorable campaign by far for me, especially that ending.

4 gave Chief a real character, and gave side figures a real purpose. It was super lore heavy which was off-putting to some, but it was legit a good story, and the ending was very moving.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Where does this nonsense that 343 hasn't been a successful developer for Microsoft come from?​

First words in the first sentence:

Ghosts of Tsushima

troll GIF
 

II_JumPeR_I

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Halo 4 rode of Halo 3's success but fell down, Halo games will always sell, now that MCC has come to PC the community is thriving and even growing at points.

Halo 4's SP was great but MP was trash
Halo 5's MP was brilliant and fresh (minus a few things) but the SP was trash

Halo is still a popular franchise that will sell, why its extremely disappointing but acceptable that it was missing from launch.

Cant wait for Infinite to release.
Halo 5 was in both parts trash.. dont get why people praise that MP..
 
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Cutty Flam

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343i disappointed so badly with Halo 4 that I never even thought for a second that I’d but Halo 5. Never a desire or urge in the world to even play it for a second. This is coming from a dude who treated Halo 2 and Halo 3 like a way of life from 2004 to 2012

I had two friends in high school who never played a Halo game before, but they bought Halo 3 and it became an addiction of theirs. They played constantly, must have played almost every day most weeks. My friend’s parents even had to put a timer on his Xbox 360 lol. Neither one of them liked Halo 4, like me, they stuck with it for a few months trying to enjoy it but it wasn’t great so in the end everyone of us dropped it in the end

My friend who is a much bigger Halo fan than I am, I once asked if he was excited for Halo: Infinite and was expecting at least some optimism. There was nothing but cynicism. He didn’t trust 343i at all and I couldn’t blame him, it was a disappointing thing to hear but completely understandable. Just look at what 343i did to MCC...they charged $60 for a game that didn’t work for years

They are not a competent team. They are not a very creative team. And the quality of ‘their’ Halo games are nothing compared to what Bungie put out for their fans
 

SenjutsuSage

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That's not the counter argument though. The Halo 4 campaign is straight up not much fun to play. Pretty graphics don't carry a game. The story is usually not talked about highly but it's actually very good it's just told in a terrible way and most don't even really know it.

Well, I disagree on that count. Halo 4's campaign was the most fun I've had with any Halo game.
 
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FUBARx89

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343i have screwed the pooch with Halo though.

Even with having ex bungie staff it's just a shadow of itself. Hopefully with Joe Staten being back to right the ship, they hoy the monkies out the studio who keep fucking it up.

Also, lol at saying Fifa is overlooked cause of being EA. FIFA is huge in the EU.
 

spawn

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You're comparing a brand new IP that released during Covid to a game that has had 4 games in the series, a spin off RTS, books. They're not even in the same genre
 
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Alebrije

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I bet most of new Star Wars movies got more money than average ...but are not better than original ones...same.happens to current Halo games
 
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Arun1910

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Because its about quality or lack thereof.

Don't forget Halo is also an established brand. Ghost of Tsushima was not.
 
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LordBlodgett

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I think the MCC launch really hurt their reputation. I know a lot of people love to whine about Halo 4 because it was so different than 3 but It does actually have a pretty good campaign. Halo 5 has the best multiplayer of all the games up to this point in my opinion, even if its campaign was a piece of shit story wise. MCC is kickass for any Halo lover now, but it took a really long time to get to this place. Multiplayer was completely busted in MCC for several years. It's definitely not fair to call them a garbage developer, but the MCC launch + the lackluster demo they showed for Halo Infinite show me that they have some leadership issues for sure. I actually think Halo Infinite is going to end up being good, especially gameplay wise, but I'm not sure it would have been if Microsoft hadn't given them an extra year + Coalition help + bringing back Staten, etc......
 

Razvedka

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I think the MCC launch really hurt their reputation. I know a lot of people love to whine about Halo 4 because it was so different than 3 but It does actually have a pretty good campaign. Halo 5 has the best multiplayer of all the games up to this point in my opinion, even if its campaign was a piece of shit story wise. MCC is kickass for any Halo lover now, but it took a really long time to get to this place. Multiplayer was completely busted in MCC for several years. It's definitely not fair to call them a garbage developer, but the MCC launch + the lackluster demo they showed for Halo Infinite show me that they have some leadership issues for sure. I actually think Halo Infinite is going to end up being good, especially gameplay wise, but I'm not sure it would have been if Microsoft hadn't given them an extra year + Coalition help + bringing back Staten, etc......
I'd counter by arguing they've done very little to *help* their reputation. Their "high point" was Halo 4.
 

01011001

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The online playerbase of Halo 4 fell below Reach's and I think even below Halo 3's within like 3 months. How is that not a fail? They also completely killed the competitive scene after Reach was already not great for it.

Halo sells based on the name alone, just like Fifa does and the WWE games do. That doesn't mean anything, WWE games of the last few years are still complete shit as is Fifa as a whole. Sales doesn't mean that a team does a good job. Why do you think Infinite undid almost everything 343i introduced to Halo since H4? Because they got the message (to a degree) and Halo titles didn't have any longevity ever since Bungie left
 
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Elios83

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Halo on Xbox and Xbox 360 was a symbol and a reason to get the console.
Since 343 took the franchise it has been a disappointment after the other (see MCC disaster, Halo 5 campaign, the whole Infinite debacle) and now the brand is nowhere in the position it was years ago.
So yeah OP, 343 was simply not up to the task after Bungie left.
 
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Expectations are different. People judge on expectations, not just commercial success. Kinda obvious.

Halo 5 is a disaster. Title was supposed to launch with the XS family of consoles to give the Xbox platform good mind share and beat some of the "Xbox has no games" mantra that has taken root in the hardcore community. Instead it got delayed and was panned as a meme in the most important Microsoft event leading up to launch. 500+ days and counting since a AAA Xbox exclusive launched (Gears 5).. on top of a horrendous generation of unmet expectations. The title carried a lot a of weight and it floundered. Can some of it be salvaged? Sure. But the damage is already done.
 
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Raa

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343 has never made a good game ever. The reason Halo 4 sold 8 million was because of the name that Bungie created and even then it sold much less than Halo 3 and Reach. Halo 5 sold even less than 4 so that should tell you right there that 343 isn't a successful developer. The name brand built from the past is the reason it even has anything left these days but it isn't a relevant franchise anymore. If Microsoft is smart they will close 343 down when Infinite inevitably fails.
 
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Ozzy Onya A2Z

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False equivalency OP. You don't need to compare to outside games when the Halo series sales track record shows you where it should have been -

2001 Xbox Halo: Combat Evolved 5.5 million
2004 Xbox Halo 2 8+ million
2007 Xbox 360 Halo 3 14.5 million
2009 Xbox 360 Halo Wars 2.62 million
2009 Xbox 360 Halo 3: ODST 6.35 million
2010 Xbox 360 Halo: Reach 9.87 million
2011 Xbox 360 Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary 2.43 million
2012 Xbox 360 Halo 4 9.75 million
2014 Xbox One Halo: The Master Chief Collection 5+ million
2015 Xbox One Halo 5: Guardians 5+ million


So you can clearly see a steady decline in mainline Halo games sales. Gamers expected a lot from Halo 4 and it went downhill from there.

It's still crazy to me we're pushing 6-7 years of no Halo titles. Mental. How 343 think this is a step forward is beyond me. I'll take the output of studios such as Respawn over 343 any day. Fuck I wish Respawn were just given the franchise at this point. The handling of MCC playlists and sheer focus on esports out of 343 shows me they still don't get Halo (at least what I and my Halo buddies want from it). I hope to be proven wrong with Infinite's release and will happily eat crow if it's stellar but from what I've seen so far it's pretty derivative. At least gamepass puts me in a place to enjoy Infinite without the 5 year bullshit like MCC first.
 

Larlight

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Reason why this entire post is bullshit? First of all, you're comparing a household name(or used to be) like Halo to a brand new IP like Ghost of Tsushima. GOT also sold over 5 million months ago. It's still steadily selling and in the top 10 best selling games monthly so it's easily higher now. But the biggest bullshit you spouted? GOW actually sold over 20 million copies. Not near 10 million that you want to imply. Also, it did that in about 2+ years compared to Halo 5 which is more than 5 years old....
 
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Adam_802

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Halo was once bigger than almost any other game franchise will ever be, so dont diss it. The IP is still better than pretty much all other FPS in terms of sandbox and general feel. Yeah 5's story sucked, but the MP is good, and I like the direction Infinite is going.
 

Jokerevo

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Lmao your logic is utterly retarded. By your metric this makes fifa or Cod or fortnite or Gta5 utter masterpieces....sales? Lmfao wtf has sales got to do with anything but mainstream popularity?

The reason why 343 suck is because their games sucked in comparison to what was achieved before them.
 

Halo is Dead

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Halo sold by name at that point. Halo 3 and Reach did better in the long run both financially and in community health. MCC was a fucking disaster that took forever to get fixed. 343 were given a golden goose and they kept laying fat goose eggs that tarnished their reputation and Halo. Their recent efforts on MCC have been great but that's mostly it.
 
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SatansReverence

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343 is a B tier developer with a AAAA budget.

Their games have been mechanically trash from the get go but they have the budget to make pretty graphics for the drooling children who have no fucking idea what good gameplay is.

Of course there are plenty of them in this thread acting as though Halo 4 and 5 were so good and 'the best halos ever' when nothing could be further from the truth. They then spout their 'but but but halo HAD to change!!!!' Garbage when there is in fact not a single shred of evidence that it did. Finally, they will try to convince themselves that halos vertical cliff like descent in playerbase isn't caused by its pathetic attempt to become cod in space.

I've got an idea for you lot, fuck off to titanfall and cod since those games have the trashy game play you want and leave Halo to the many millions more of us that want to actually play Halo, yeah?

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk, and 343 is fucking trash.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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343 is a B tier developer with a AAAA budget.

Their games have been mechanically trash from the get go but they have the budget to make pretty graphics for the drooling children who have no fucking idea what good gameplay is.

Of course there are plenty of them in this thread acting as though Halo 4 and 5 were so good and 'the best halos ever' when nothing could be further from the truth. They then spout their 'but but but halo HAD to change!!!!' Garbage when there is in fact not a single shred of evidence that it did. Finally, they will try to convince themselves that halos vertical cliff like descent in playerbase isn't caused by its pathetic attempt to become cod in space.

I've got an idea for you lot, fuck off to titanfall and cod since those games have the trashy game play you want and leave Halo to the many millions more of us that want to actually play Halo, yeah?

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk, and 343 is fucking trash.

I agree with you regarding COD.

However I'll take Apex Legends over any of the last 3 mainline Halo games when speaking of multiplayer. Apex is the best Halo shooter out there. Fight over map loot/position, work with a squad, shields/health system, engage/ambush and counter attack all viable and essentially character passive/ults are like pickups that recharge continuously. Seriously you could stick a Halo skin over Apex it's just what I want from Halo Infinite (for one major mode replacing Warzone or Breakout etc) with the addition of objectives, smaller maps/squad counts and vehicles in other modes etc. Halo would do very well to focus on a few core playlists this time and really drive home the gameplay. 343 miss something akin to a solid BR mode at their own peril with Infinite. They have crossplay, gamepass, F2P, device/xCloud and more; if they're serious about regional support and gaining huge numbers of players all those elements need to combine and recycle players through the matchmaking pools far better than the last 2 mainline entries 343 produced.

Halo's arena mode and esports was given all the investment, resources and centre stage with Halo 5 and it still didn't go anywhere near the likes of Fortnite or Apex or Warzone etc. Let alone even comparing against previous Halo "legacy" titles directly.
 

Le Big Mac

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Isn't there now a thread discussing Coalition helping 343 for Infinite? Common for studios to collaborate but given the turmoil of the studio over infinite and MCC, OP you can't overlook their reign on this franchise has been lackluster at best
 

Black_Stride

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Probably because their games aren't good and the community is nothing compared to what it was.

They have done a lot of damage to the Halo brand regardless of sales with their decisions.
Scoring mid/high 80s is considered utter trash right?






But only if its from Xbox Game Studios obviously.


 
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SenjutsuSage

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How is it remotely possible that I get a significant ban threat for making this thread from the moderation team? Somehow I'm being accused of low level antagonism and incitement... and I don't understand how when I'm having a genuine discussion and engaging on metrics of success I think are fair and are universally held for other major releases about what this studio has done, and why I feel they're unfairly characterized as a bad studio. Is the thread defending an Xbox studio and their work automatically incitement?

I see people make threads targeting/attacking the merits and qualifications of game industry professionals solely based on studio pictures, what they look like and whether a studio appears to have too many women (because women are fucking incompetent I guess), or whether they appear to place any kind of importance on diverse hiring practices, and I wonder does any of that crap illicit similar threats? I still see them.

I get it, though, I see what's going on, it's silly shit, and completely ridiculous. The tiniest things I say or do you're itching to ban me for outright bull, but I don't see that strict standard or rule applied to any of the regular bad actors I see post on here all the time and apparently have carte blanche to be assholes, however, whenever, and I think we all know why. I won't bother posting here anymore.

You win. Do your worst cause I'll be damned if I can't speak my mind and have to walk on eggshells cause some of you are so fucking sensitive about vocal Xbox fans.

Barack Obama Mic Drop GIF
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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OP must of missed the Infinite showing or the news that MS sent 4 teams to help save it with The Coalition being the most recent.
 

Graciaus

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Scoring mid/high 80s is considered utter trash right?






But only if its from Xbox Game Studios obviously.


Professional reviews are irrelevant. I didn't like spider man or really any Sony 1st party either. I'm not sure what your point is.
 

Roufianos

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You're just listing numbers with no context. Halo 3 sold 15 million or so.

Halo 4 selling 9 million is obviously impressive but not relatively speaking. Clearly there's been a significant decline in the series' popularity.
 

DGrayson

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WHen something is economically successful doesny automatically make it good.
Look at EA


This is true but you have to figure who is asking the question. If gamers are judging success they may look at the quality of the game. If its company executives, shareholders, creditors etc, they may look first to how well the game sold, before considering other things such as its quality.
 
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Damigos

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This is true but you have to figure who is asking the question. If gamers are judging success they may look at the quality of the game. If its company executives, shareholders, creditors etc, they may look first to how well the game sold, before considering other things such as its quality.
Ofc. I dont believe any non-moblie, non-yearly-sport gamers consider EA to be a worthy company.
 
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NickFire

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From MS standpoint they might have been a huge success until 2020. But from a gaming standpoint I miss Halo 1 and 2 still. And regardless of prior success, they had a chance to give MS a massive uppercut to Sony's jaw in 2020. If there was an AAA next (now current) generation Halo game being played right now, and getting rave reviews from players, I probably wouldn't be waiting for PS5 to become available. And I wouldn't be the only one drooling over it and thinking of switching eco-systems. And they did not just fail to make launch. The previews from the summer were so bad that they generated laughter instead of excitement. That is an absolute and epic failure for a company that was supposed to set the bar for next generation at launch.
 
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How do their Halo games compare to the Bungie ones in terms of Metacritic and sales? Is Halo as relevant as it was back in the Bungie days?

It sold over 4 million copies on its first weekend only. Ghost of Tsushima needed several months to achieve 5 million. At the end of 2020, TLOU2 had sold more units than GoT and in Europe (the biggest PlayStation market) TLOU2 continues selling more than GoT. GoT isn't outselling and won't outsell TLOU2, but outsold Horizon as the best launch of a PS4 exclusive new IP.

We don't know how many players bought Sea of Thieves or the amount of revenue it generated, so we don't know if it's a success or not. We only know 15 million players played (not bought) it.

Regarding Call of Duty, as I remember in the top 20 best selling games of the decade there were 10 CoD games. I assume they were all the main ones relesed these 10 years.

Halo 3 sold over 8 million copies in 3 months. Halo 5, as you mentioned, was at 5 million.
You're trying to compare it to a new IP with no name value, while entirely ignoring the decline in popularity and relevance since switching over to 343.
No Halo game from 343 has reached the heights of the Halo games from Bungie. That's why people say they haven't been a great developer.

During it's First Week Halo 5 Reaches $400 Million in Sales to Become Biggest Halo Launch Ever

 

trufflepigg

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Their games suck ass, what more do you need to know? Sales mean nothing, they are piggy backing off nostalgia from people exactly like me who feel cheated every time I purhase a 343i product. It's insanity that you wrote this massive thread defending a crappy studio that made money. WOW, crappy products bring in boat loads of money all the time. It means nothing. Halo's reputation has been extraordinarily damaged by 343i, how you can't see that is beyond me.

Star Wars Sequel trilogy also made boat loads of money, but it could have made multiple times more money if they didn't make horrible products. They damaged the Star Wars legacy so bad that future sales will be a fraction of their potential. We will never know what Halo could have been at this rate, it's dying a slow and sad death because the games suck ass.
 
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