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Where do we draw the line in "preserving" Nintendo Switch games?

UnNamed

Banned
Ok it's just me but...

Remember how much money Mamedevs receives from donors to preserve 30yo arcade cabinets with unknown protections and no documentation.

Then see how much money Yuzu and Cemu devs get to emulate day one games for an hardware easily available on the market.

How many people give the same amount of money to both devs? Almost no one?

So, it's easy.
The first example is preservation.
The second is piracy.
Don't invent shitty excuses to justify this.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Pirating makes an incredible dent for Nintendo like any other Company or Industry. All of these opinions are falsehoods to justify "preserving" their games. Is it anti-consumer of me to not prefer Nintendo to lose billions of dollars in privacy but rather use billions of dollars in making new games?
Equating 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale? Rly?
 
I try to play exclusive games on the hardware they were designed for, which usually means I have to buy it.

Talking specifically a newer game like Xenoblade 3, I reckon most of those people playing on Steamdeck are just happy to have an actual good game to play on their expensive device. I don’t think Nintendo misses those sales.
 
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cireza

Banned
If Nintendo want to prevent this, the best solution is to stop releasing 2 gen old hardware.

And there is no issue with emulation... you just have to buy the games to support the developer.
 
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Chukhopops

Member
Emulation =/= Piracy

And that's the end of the discussion.

Everything else is just mindless fanboys crying for their archaic company treating them like shit
Did you see the word « piracy » in my post somewhere?

Again, do what you want but don’t pretend it’s for preservation.
 

Sleepwalker

Gold Member
if 35% are pirating PC games in 2016, then we can say that Wii, DS, and GBA games in the same timeframe were being pirated either on par or probably much higher in percentages. If we also consider the age range/household income of those who pirate, it's mostly younger lower/middle-class consumers who pirate.


This demographic 'Younger lower/middle-class consumers who pirate' won't buy the games if pirating isn't an option, but might grow up/better their conditions and start buying them in the future thanks to previous exposure. I was there growing up, in my country buying games legitimately was a no no because 1 single game was more than 1/3 my parents monthly wage, they weren't going to buy their kids a game no matter what. But they could pony up for a console on xmas or a special date, a console like lets say a PS2 that would promptly be modded in order to get pirated games at $2-3 a pop. Same with bootleg cartridges/flashcarts or a computer that could emulate GBA, etc.

My childhood was that, piracy. It was the only thing I had access to, as a kidyou don't know it's wrong, you just enjoy your games. When you are poor you just don't care. Eventually I grew up to be in a very strong financial position where I have a big ass steam library and all 3 consoles where I buy my games legitimately. But without growing up gaming, I wouldn't have ever bothered to pick up gaming as a hobby later in life.


This is why things like gamepass and regional pricing are good and effective ways to combat piracy, MS and steam charge appropiate pricing regarding to the countries they are selling in, gamepass is becoming very popular in south america because of this, steam also does well. Nintendo and Sony not so much in that sense, because their pricing stays very high, specially nintendo. So even when you buy a physical copy of a game, you don't usually go through ordinary channels but will get it from stores that contraband it. In my home country modded nintendo switches are very very popular due to this, you can pony up to buy a modded console once and that is it, for people that are confronted with this option or spending a significant portion of their salary in 1 single game, the choice is easy.

Yes you could say if they can't afford to buy games they shouldn't be gaming in the first place! Gaming is a luxury! And maybe you'd be right, but you'd be yelling at clouds because that's not how the world works is it? One of the big reasons the PS2 sold the numbers it did worldwide is that it was stupid easy to pirate. This is happening to the switch right now too.



Just for clarification, I do not condone piracy but it is a discussion worth having. So hopefully I won't be banned for this post lol.
 
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Thaedolus

Member
What if you buy the game, play it on your Switch, then download it and play on your PC? Still a piece of shit?
No- the principle is that you paid the developer for their work. If someone else does the work to dump the file and you use it out of convenience or whatever, I don’t really see the harm in that because you’ve bought a copy and aren’t distributing it. I suppose if you’re using some P2P system where you’re seeding it to more people who didn’t buy it that changes the equation.
 
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People pirating games are never going to pay for them. You cannot lose what you would never get in the first place.

A company the size of Nintendo can moan all they want but piracy is a drop in the ocean for them. Are they going to attempt to decrease that? Absolutely, they have a right to protect their business.

If people want to emulate for their own use it's not a problem, long as they BUY a copy FROM NINTENDO first.

If there's a concern it's for small indie devs getting pirated to death on Steam.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
if 35% are pirating PC games in 2016, then we can say that Wii, DS, and GBA games in the same timeframe were being pirated either on par or probably much higher in percentages. If we also consider the age range/household income of those who pirate, it's mostly younger lower/middle-class consumers who pirate.

it is more than mainstream because it is concurrently growing.


And with Switch, It's also becoming more and more accessible.
this is cool and all, but
SMv0b8t.png

The minority who pirate are massively outweighed by the majority who don't
You have to consider the massive audience of casuals who really don't give a shit and just wanna play games.
Linus tech tips is a funny example because that steam deck piracy video has a lower viewcount than his switch and switch lite videos
IqLOpiu.png
P5qMbTE.png

If piracy was so mainstream don't you think that video would have more views and people would give more of a shit?
How do you even know piracy makes that much of a dent in nintendo, it's not like they've posted official stats on how much piracy hurts their sales, and judging by their recent performance it seems like piracy is doing jackshit because everything they make sells like hotcakes and ALWAYS breaks past the 1 million barrier. If it's mario, then 10 million
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
No problem with dumping your own carts and playing it on pc, especially if the performance is better. Id much rather play breath of the wild or metroid dread on pc, the problem is pirates who download roms off the web
 

Majormaxxx

Member
This industry is massively profitable. Hobbyist like the ones on this site have purchased software and hardware worth 1000s if not tens of thousands of dollars. The margins on software, especially after a certain period, and with cheap media or digital distribution is astronomical.

Software pirates, especially the ones who pirate massive amounts of titles, do not hurt the companies financially because they wouldn't have purchased these titles. Not all of them. The reason - lack of time to play them all.

Stop simping for them.

Start being a pro consumer apologist. If talking about Nintendo - demand more from their software ecosystem. What happened to the roms people bought on wii and wii u?

For gog - demand they are more thorough with retro software manuals.

For Xbox - I don't really have complaints besides not making certain titles available digitally.

For PS - demand more account protection.

I'm not a huge steam user so not sure what their main issues are.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
i find it too much hassle to try playing Nintendo games on PC legally. I tried dumping BOTW from Wii U onto PC but couldn't figure it out. I'd love to get my Switch games on PC but it seems you need a certain model of Switch. I just couldn't figure it out even if I did have that particular model. With Playstation it was so damn easy. I have all my PS1/PS2 games dumped onto my PC and can emulate them.

i won't talk about piracy but i suppose that would be the easier way to do it...

personally, i'm just going to buy my Switch cartridges and play them on the console itself. I just need to hope my console doesn't break, that i can replace the batteries easily (they will degrade naturally), and that Nintendo doesn't fuck about with the Switch servers so I can get patches should I need them.
 
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Playing games on PC when they were designed for other hardware makes me feel like I’m playing on a dev kit. Another weird hangup which keeps me from doing such things.
 

Fredrik

Member
Yes. Just dump the game you bought physically. I isn’t a difficult or complex thing to do. If you have a gaming PC you can afford to spend the pittance for the hardware needed to do so.
It’s not like it’s super easy and you still need an unpatched Switch with custom firmware. And as long as you’ve already bought the game the differences for Nintendo is not even noticeable, unless you need to buy a secondary console. It feels better though.
No- the principle is that you paid the developer for their work. If someone else does the work to dump the file and you use it out of convenience or whatever, I don’t really see the harm in that because you’ve bought a copy and aren’t distributing it. I suppose if you’re using some P2P system where you’re seeding it to more people who didn’t buy it that changes the equation.
I kinda agree here, I don’t think dumping or not is the killer blow for the industry.
I’d say that the real problem with piracy comes from downloading games you haven’t bought, that you planned to buy, and downloading complete rom sets, and sharing those files.

I think if running pirated games is so easy that even mainstream gamers start doing it then things will end badly.

Young people had stopped buying music CDs long before Spotify was a thing. Because of MP3s. But the music industry survived since an artist could earn money from concerts.

And at least in my country young people stopped buying DVDs and Blurays before Netflix, I know because I was seen as a hilarious dinosaur from having hundreds of physical movies. But the movie industry survived since they earned money from cinemas.

The gaming industry doesn’t have that secondary safety net. If the majority would be pirating then the industry as we know it would die. Luckily it’s not that widespread yet.
 

Thaedolus

Member
I think if running pirated games is so easy that even mainstream gamers start doing it then things will end badly.
It’s always been here though, and there’s always been a game of cat and mouse with pirates and developers. I partly learned to read because old DOS games had copy protection in the form of “find the second word in the third paragraph on page 6 of the manual” in order to launch them. I hate seeing a game like Metroid Dread, which I’m a huge fan of and bought three copies of, getting pirated day one…but it still sold more than any Metroid ever and Nintendo is basically printing money with the Switch so it’s not really keeping me up at night. And I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over playing software I actually bought and paid for on unofficial hardware.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Nintendo hardware sucking is a good reason to preserve the game so when that sucky hardware fails we'll have a better way to play it later down the line
With a handful of exceptions most hardware released in the past 25-30 years can still be obtained relatively easily and reasonably. There are over 100 million Switch consoles and probably hundreds of millions of joycons and other kinds of controllers out there. Ability to find working Switch hardware probably won't be an issue for decades, so using that as an excuse for "preserving" Switch games now to play on PC or Steam Deck is just comedy.

Lack of ability to acquire to working hardware for console games isn't why most people "preserve" them, anyway. Most people just want games for free. Either way, as long as they own a license to the games they are "preserving," whether it's a physical copy or a receipt for a digital version, I'm ok with people emulating it. Or if it's impossible to play in some reasonable fashion, like arcade games that have not been released in ports or collections, then I can see it. But MAME isn't what most companies are considering questionable "preservation" these days, anyway.
 

Fredrik

Member
It’s always been here though, and there’s always been a game of cat and mouse with pirates and developers. I partly learned to read because old DOS games had copy protection in the form of “find the second word in the third paragraph on page 6 of the manual” in order to launch them. I hate seeing a game like Metroid Dread, which I’m a huge fan of and bought three copies of, getting pirated day one…but it still sold more than any Metroid ever and Nintendo is basically printing money with the Switch so it’s not really keeping me up at night. And I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over playing software I actually bought and paid for on unofficial hardware.
Yeah I’m kinda divided on it. Maybe Switch is at the point where piracy don’t matter much, I don’t know. But I do think it’s good when piracy isn’t easy and widespread early on and I always get nervous when I read news about a console being hacked.
But for older games I look the other way. I just don’t care. The industry needs to do a better job at making sure fans can keep playing old classics. Factor 5 have some Amiga games on their website that you’re free to download for use in emulators. More devs should do that.
 

Shifty

Member
Pirating in video games is mainstream. we may not have specific stats on video game piracy, but there is a higher chance that Nintendo games account for the majority of home/handheld games that are being pirated, second to PC games.
If 35% are pirating PC games in 2016, then we can say that Wii, DS, and GBA games in the same timeframe were being pirated either on par or probably much higher in percentages. If we also consider the age range/household income of those who pirate, it's mostly younger lower/middle-class consumers who pirate.
Based on what? Higher chance is a relative measure, blurred further by being probabilistic. PC also has a lower barrier to entry for piracy due to being an open platform with readily-available memory editing and dev tools, which is a provable factor that biases its percentage upward compared to closed console ecosystems.

We can intuit and make educated guesses based on the available related stats, but that's all they are at the end of the day - forms of speculation.

Yeah. I’d say it’s a double-edged sword. While someone pirating a game usually means an individual sale is lost, a pirated game can also increase the hype for a game and platform since more people are talking about it.

For example, I can’t imagine C64 would’ve been as popular and sold as much if it weren’t for the widespread piracy.

On the other hand, it was so rampant that I struggle to understand how game devs could even recoup the dev costs.

Upside for the industry, it got people into game development, cracking a game needed coding and cracker groups did flashy demos and the coders became very skilled. DICE/Digital Illusion got born through the cracker group Fairlight.
Greetz to the scene! (In wobbly bitmap sprite font with a cracking soundtrack and trippy background effect)

The microcomputer age really was something for the piracy stuff - I'd say 50+% of my mate's Archie collection were copied floppies back in the day. Makes you wonder whether the novel prevention methods like decoder wheels and verbose manuals worked as intended, or just spurred the scene on harder :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Though that's one of the cases that also works in favour of the preservation movement, since the hacking and cracking done by those folks laid the groundwork for things like the Amiga's WHDLoad that still see usage in today's emulation setups and retro hardware refreshes.

But yeah, it was something special that I don't think we'll see the like of again; that combination of grassroots community and evolving technical knowhow driven by a desire to flex the technology and make it do cool things. Indie dev, homebrew and embedded hacking just aren't the same now the barrier to entry has been lowered by commercial engines and hobbyist chipsets.

It's cool that we got some really talented studios out of it though - Shin'en (of Iridion 3D fame) came from a scene group, and it really shows in their technical output. I think Housemarque did as well, with similarly spectacular results.
 
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Akuji

Member
what others do cant be your buisness. If you start with that, you will never be able to stop it. Its not worth anyones time. Its not your product, dont get to involved. Only thing important for you is how you handle those things. Decicde for yourself what you want to do and then just do that. You can also change your mind about it in the future. Theres nothing to it. Just live your life and be happy.

Games these day are so easy to rip so there is no way to make any real "for preserving" cases for modern games. They will be easily avaiable because people make money out of selling roms / making them avaiable.
 

twerkouting

Banned
imagine being this much of a narc over a bunch of corporations who are millions of dollars richer than you
snap out of it


How does any entity being good at making entertainment warrant obtaining said entertainment via less than scrupulous means? Just say you're cheap and don't want to want to play for video games you want to play; you don't have to jump through mental hoops to feel justified. You're a thief; own up to it.

"NoThiNg wAs StOlEn"

Yeah you just got to experience something for free when the creator of said experience was explicitly offering it in exchange for money.

Edit just in case: You buy a copy of something, go ham. Do whatever you want with your copy for your own purposes.
 
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Ezquimacore

Banned
Old news, skyward sword was leaked 2 weeks before launch, that was 11 years ago. You can emulate every single Nintendo game ever on PC, from Arcade to switch. As long as Nintendo console are not a powerhouse compared to the current PC hardware, emulation will happen.

If Nintendo wants to stop emulation they just need to make a powerful console.
 

Ezquimacore

Banned
Nintendo should've went third party years ago. They refuse to keep up with the competition in terms of hardware, UI, online infrastructures etc

They're too damn stubborn to ever do so though

I'd buy up their games on my Series X or PC in a heartbeat
Mario kart 8 alone sold more than every Xbox exclusive from the last generation and this generation together. You just need to buy their game and dump the files to play it on current emulators at 4k.
 

teezzy

Banned
Mario kart 8 alone sold more than every Xbox exclusive from the last generation and this generation together. You just need to buy their game and dump the files to play it on current emulators at 4k.

Valid point. I don't personally mind, I enjoy my switch. I just wish Nintendo had kept up in the hardware race like they did until 6th gen

Sucks to pay console prices for handheld titles. It's why I buy everything pre owned or on sale digitally
 

Ezquimacore

Banned
In response to some comments here, look if you want to pirate games, nothing's really going to stop you, but "the hardware is weak" is not a valid excuse, so stop pretending it's justified to do it.
The hardware being weak is the reason of why we always have Nintendo emulators for every generation, because it's easy to emulate and develop an emulator. If Nintendo develops a powerful console you will need a NASA pc to emulate and people wouldn't even try.
 

Ezquimacore

Banned
Valid point. I don't personally mind, I enjoy my switch. I just wish Nintendo had kept up in the hardware race like they did until 6th gen

Sucks to pay console prices for handheld titles. It's why I buy everything pre owned or on sale digitally
I enjoy my switch but I love emulation too. So it's a love/fuck Nintendo relationship. I don't care if the games are at 4k, but games like Xenoblade 2 run like shit and breath of the wild had massive frame drops on Wii u and switch. So I'll emulate what I can because graphics is one thing but I can't stand bad performance.
 

Thaedolus

Member
In response to some comments here, look if you want to pirate games, nothing's really going to stop you, but "the hardware is weak" is not a valid excuse, so stop pretending it's justified to do it.
Emulation is not piracy, even if it makes piracy easier for those inclined to go that route.
 

Dynasty8

Member
In response to some comments here, look if you want to pirate games, nothing's really going to stop you, but "the hardware is weak" is not a valid excuse, so stop pretending it's justified to do it.
Yeah, it's never "justified and sadly most people who emulate will never buy a copy of the game they're pirating. If they can get away with it, they will.

But the truth is that there are many people who just want a good experience with Nintendo games....and those many people can't get that on the Switch. They really can't.

The reviews/experiences for XC3 would be much higher if the game ran on PS5, XSX, or PC. Also, emulating PS5/XSX would be MUCH more difficult or not even possible.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Inappropriate Behavior
How does any entity being good at making entertainment warrant obtaining said entertainment via less than scrupulous means? Just say you're cheap and don't want to want to play for video games you want to play; you don't have to jump through mental hoops to feel justified. You're a thief; own up to it.
Copying digital files ripped from the internet =! stealing actual physical possessions that can't be replicated easily with a copy and paste shortcut
 

Tams

Gold Member
Nintendo should've went third party years ago. They refuse to keep up with the competition in terms of hardware, UI, online infrastructures etc

They're too damn stubborn to ever do so though

I'd buy up their games on my Series X or PC in a heartbeat
No.

A lot of what makes them different is that they make their own hardware, their way. They can as a result make games that make use of the hardware, and they actually do make a decent number of games that do so.

As their hardware also makes them profits, keeping their games exclusive also generates them for money that way.

You, I, nor anyone else are entitled to have them publish their games on other platforms. To think that ia entitlement. And their not your, nor mine, nor any customers' games.

But hey, show us your management credentials that would make your opinion valid...
 

teezzy

Banned
No.

A lot of what makes them different is that they make their own hardware, their way. They can as a result make games that make use of the hardware, and they actually do make a decent number of games that do so.

As their hardware also makes them profits, keeping their games exclusive also generates them for money that way.

You, I, nor anyone else are entitled to have them publish their games on other platforms. To think that ia entitlement. And their not your, nor mine, nor any customers' games.

But hey, show us your management credentials that would make your opinion valid...

Yeah you're right my opinion isn't valid because you're a fanboy. Got it
 

Salvatron

Member
If Nintendo wanted to re-release Pokemon games in the form of a collection, no one would buy it.
ROMs have single-handedly tarnished the potential selling of any Legacy handheld games. it 100% makes a dent in their sales. that alone also decides what IPs should continue.
They cant make remasters and remakes as much as Sony when they are too busy trying to hold on to their IPs constantly getting pirated.
The switch is unfortunately not hard to hack, and Switch games are becoming more accessible to obtain.
I'm definitely looking to buy the Megaman Battle Network collection.
Capcom has been doing well with their legacy collections, including additional content.
I think when you make a statement like "ROMs have single-handedly tarnished the potential selling of any Legacy handheld games." How much are we really talking here. It's not like people don't rebuy the same game over and over again. I've done with the metal gear series, I've done it with Skyrim. I would argue the potential loss is minimal... probably less than 1%.

They cant make remasters and remakes as much as Sony when they are too busy trying to hold on to their IPs constantly getting pirated.
This statement is a bit hyperbolic, pretty sure they are still fully capable of remasters, collections of all sort. Also, we're talking about Nintendo... a multi-billion dollar company thats been around for decades with stable of massive IPs.
 

Gambit2483

Member
I try to play exclusive games on the hardware they were designed for, which usually means I have to buy it.

Talking specifically a newer game like Xenoblade 3, I reckon most of those people playing on Steamdeck are just happy to have an actual good game to play on their expensive device. I don’t think Nintendo misses those sales.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo would rather they ALL buy a Switch and Legal copy of the game to play it.

Nintendo takes pirating pretty seriously if you haven't noticed by now.
 

daveonezero

Banned
On the flip side I think a lot of kids in the 90s were emulating and downloading ROMS. I don’t think Secret of Mana 3 would have released and then a remake if kids weren't pirating that game that never came out in the US.

It was always at the top of SNES game you should play. And that was possible because of the fan translations.

And now look. Those kids who had no money made it possible for the game to get a release in the States.
 
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Thaedolus

Member
On the flip side I think a lot of kids in the 90s were emulating and downloading ROMS. I don’t think Secret of Mana 3 would have released and then a remake of kids were pirating that game that never came out in the US.
Yes, we were. I played Final Fantasy V the first time with a fan translation as a young teenager in the 90s on an emulator because that was the only way I could do it. I’ve since bought the GBA port and pixel remaster on Steam, so I feel like I’ve supported it since, but it’s not like this is all the sudden a new issue because Nintendo’s anti-piracy efforts are still an issue in the 2020s.
 

Gambit2483

Member
Yes, we were. I played Final Fantasy V the first time with a fan translation as a young teenager in the 90s on an emulator because that was the only way I could do it. I’ve since bought the GBA port and pixel remaster on Steam, so I feel like I’ve supported it since, but it’s not like this is all the sudden a new issue because Nintendo’s anti-piracy efforts are still an issue in the 2020s.
Downloading decades old ROMS that were no longer accessible in any form or fashion legally was much different from Pirating newly released games that can be purchased on readily available hardware.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Downloading decades old ROMS that were no longer accessible in any form or fashion legally was much different from Pirating newly released games that can be purchased on readily available hardware.
Oh I agree totally. I don’t feel bad for it, and like I said I’ve double dipped on the same game since having a way to buy it for real.
 

nush

Gold Member
Oh I agree totally. I don’t feel bad for it, and like I said I’ve double dipped on the same game since having a way to buy it for real.

Some arcade games I had to play on MAME becuse they just were not ported to new systems, since then collections of arcade games have generally got a LOT better and I've always brought them to support more old arcade games getting put into collections. It's not perfect yet but the fact these collections get additional volumes and ported to newer hardware means there is enough market there that pays for those collections.
 

Fuz

Banned
Some arcade games I had to play on MAME becuse they just were not ported to new systems, since then collections of arcade games have generally got a LOT better and I've always brought them to support more old arcade games getting put into collections. It's not perfect yet but the fact these collections get additional volumes and ported to newer hardware means there is enough market there that pays for those collections.
Problem is... usually those game collections runs much worse than they do on MAME. With a lot less options and less settings.
 
You are the diminishing majority: the purchasing consumer, that's a good thing(that you still purchase) bad that many are stealing.
However, you dismantle the tradition within Home video console gaming in the exclusive titles by wanting to play it on any hardware.
This alone starts another discussion on the "Fate of Exclusive games". Why make exclusive game to consoles if gamers don't care what hardware it made for?
What the fuck are you even trying to say
 
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