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What types of hardware innovations do you want to see in the console space?

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Another controller innovation id like to push is the standardization of back pedals
we've pretty much been experimenting with them on and off for a while now and at this point it's shocking how the XSX and PS5 don't have back pedals as standard buttons at this point. It can make hard to press buttons far easier to press since they're on the back and they encourage customization and creativity on how people use their controllers more which is something that PC users have and enjoy a lot. Although, i'm confused on whether they should be remappable buttons or straight up just new buttons outright
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
Games to look real.
What game is that?
the right analog stick has to go bye bye.

Sony introduced it, not knowing how to really use it, they experimented with stuff like mimicking weapon movement with it in Ape Escape, and then after a while developers adopted it as a way to control the camera and aim in shooters

but for that stuff there are better alternatives that give more precision and are mote intuitive for new players as well.

alternative 1: The Steam controller like gigantic, high precision touch pad, with haptic feedback and circles for orientation.

alternative 2: A Trackball with a high DPS laser optic

imo both of these would not only increase precision but also make crossplay in shooters more even between mouse and controller players and it is way more intuitive to aim with a mouse-like input than it is with an analog stick.

the closest we ever came to something similar was the DS and shooters on the DS.
the early models always included a thumb-strap you could use to use the pressure sensitive touchscreen with pretty high precision using a single thumb.
so games like Metroid Prime Hunters, GoldenEye Rogue Agent and other shooters on the DS had REALLY good aiming controls using the touch screen.
(I think the strap in this video is not the official one but many accessory bundles came with third party ones)

ALSO a high quality touch pad would basically be immune to stick drift, and right sticks are way more prone to drift than left sticks due to the aiming in shooters putting way more strain on them


the right analog stick is a suboptimal controller element for the job it is doing in modern games.


for traditionalists or people afraid of change they could offer a classic controller with a right stick of course... also for easier backwards compatibility (although you can easily emulate stick inputs on a touch pad, maybe suboptimal for some games but not terrible)
Please no. That's even more inaccurate really, as you have no zero position. Mouse is so accurate because you have unlimited vertical and horizontal position while on a two dimensional plain that is represented in physical space.

Ever use those DS touch games? Absolutely horrible. My DS collected dust due to that.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
What game is that?

Please no. That's even more inaccurate really, as you have no zero position. Mouse is so accurate because you have unlimited vertical and horizontal position while on a two dimensional plain that is represented in physical space.

Ever use those DS touch games? Absolutely horrible. My DS collected dust due to that.
Lack of position is a bit of a problem but i'm sure we can bypass that by a simple button that resets that quickly. Although i do agree with the lack of space, the touchpads on the steam controller were big and meaty so if every touchpad was like that it'd work.
 

Hoddi

Member
Another controller innovation id like to push is the standardization of back pedals
we've pretty much been experimenting with them on and off for a while now and at this point it's shocking how the XSX and PS5 don't have back pedals as standard buttons at this point. It can make hard to press buttons far easier to press since they're on the back and they encourage customization and creativity on how people use their controllers more which is something that PC users have and enjoy a lot. Although, i'm confused on whether they should be remappable buttons or straight up just new buttons outright
Back paddles are freaking great. I never thought much about that until I bought my 8bitdo Pro 2 controller last year and remapped them to the L3/R3 buttons.

Life changing. I never realized how awful it was to be clicking on those thumbsticks.
 

hinch7

Member
Since consoles are more like PC's I'd love if both Sony and Microsoft released an official keyboard and mouse combo for their consoles. Have it lap usable, easy to pick up and use. And native support for them in most titles and apps would be great.

Shooters are far better and more accurate with KB+M, instead of relying on aim assists. And relieves a lot of issue surrounding matchmaking on consoles vs PC in competitive shooters.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
What game is that?

Please no. That's even more inaccurate really, as you have no zero position. Mouse is so accurate because you have unlimited vertical and horizontal position while on a two dimensional plain that is represented in physical space.

Ever use those DS touch games? Absolutely horrible. My DS collected dust due to that.

there are people literally playing high level Counter Strike on Steam Controllers, you could never do that on a stick.

also, you don't have "unlimited" position on a mouse unless your arm has infinite length and your desk has infinite surface.
and how is your thumb on a touch pad not "represented in physical space"? are they just illusions?

a high precision touch pad can be almost as precise as a mouse, the DS's touch aiming was really good for such a small and cheap touch screen.
 
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Fucking thank you! I always feel like a freak anytime I want gyro aiming or any other type of motion aiming like IR aiming to take off as an optional standard for games. Never hurts to have it as an option for those who want it.

A great video on the topic that I once made a thread here about:

 

Dream-Knife

Member
Lack of position is a bit of a problem but i'm sure we can bypass that by a simple button that resets that quickly. Although i do agree with the lack of space, the touchpads on the steam controller were big and meaty so if every touchpad was like that it'd work.
Like motion controls? Proponents of motion aiming claim it's almost as accurate as a mouse. If only you didn't have wrists.
there are people literally playing high level Counter Strike on Steam Controllers, you could never do that on a stick.

also, you don't have "unlimited" position on a mouse unless your arm has infinite length and your desk has infinite surface.
and how is your thumb on a touch pad not "represented in physical space"? are they just illusions?

a high precision touch pad can be almost as precise as a mouse, the DS's touch aiming was really good for such a small and cheap touch screen.
Source? I've never seen that. There's also people playing dark souls with bananas.

Depends on your DPI. If you play with a low DPI you have to pick up the mouse. Then there's how you hold the mouse, and the size of your pad.

Your thumb isn't the mouse though, the pad is. You move the mouse in physical space and it's position directly correlates with where it is on screen.

So I take it you never used it? It was the worst way to play a game I have ever found.

Sticks are only a hinderance in FPS. Pretty much any other game it doesn't even matter. If you're serious about FPS use K&M. Simple.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
Fucking thank you! I always feel like a freak anytime I want gyro aiming or any other type of motion aiming like IR aiming to take off as an optional standard for games. Never hurts to have it as an option for those who want it.

A great video on the topic that I once made a thread here about:


precise touch pad + precise gyro combo would be the ultimate shooter controller.

the Steam controller apparently has a pretty bad gyroscope that is polling at a way lower rate than comparable controllers, so it never was optimal
 
precise touch pad + precise gyro combo would be the ultimate shooter controller.

the Steam controller apparently has a pretty bad gyroscope that is polling at a way lower rate than comparable controllers, so it never was optimal
Depends on how you configure it. My Steam controller is my go-to choice for several games with shooting in them on PC
 

01011001

Gold Member
Like motion controls? Proponents of motion aiming claim it's almost as accurate as a mouse. If only you didn't have wrists.

Source? I've never seen that. There's also people playing dark souls with bananas.

Depends on your DPI. If you play with a low DPI you have to pick up the mouse. Then there's how you hold the mouse, and the size of your pad.

Your thumb isn't the mouse though, the pad is. You move the mouse in physical space and it's position directly correlates with where it is on screen.

So I take it you never used it? It was the worst way to play a game I have ever found.

Sticks are only a hinderance in FPS. Pretty much any other game it doesn't even matter. If you're serious about FPS use K&M. Simple.

I think the issue is that the Steam controller wasn't really that well made. the gyroscope was pretty bad apparently and the touch pads also not that amazing.

modern laptops have extremely high precision touch pads and modern controllers have way better gyroscopes.

so a high quality controller with a better pad and a better gyro would be amazing for shooters. also the ergonomics have to be good otherwise your aim will jump around while pulling the trigger. the PlayStation controllers are especially bad in that regard as their triggers make you push the controller upwards quite a bit due to how they are angled and the high resistance they have on the feather
 
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Dream-Knife

Member
I think the issue is that the Steam controller wasn't really that well made. the gyroscope was pretty bad apparently and the touch pads also not that amazing.

modern laptops have extremely high precision touch pads and modern controllers have way better gyroscopes.

so a high quality controller with a better pad and a better gyro would be amazing for shooters. also the ergonomics have to be good otherwise your aim will jump around while pulling the trigger. the PlayStation controllers are especially bad in that regard as their triggers make you push the controller upwards quite a bit due to how they are angled and the high resistance they have on the feather
I haven't used a dual sense, but the DS4 was quite comfortable. Their shoulder button placements are the most ergonomic actually, as your index finger falls between the two.

I wasn't impressed with the gyro in Splatoon with the Switch Pro. Seemed only useful for up and down.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I haven't used a dual sense, but the DS4 was quite comfortable. Their shoulder button placements are the most ergonomic actually, as your index finger falls between the two.

I wasn't impressed with the gyro in Splatoon with the Switch Pro. Seemed only useful for up and down.
actually it's because splatoon only registers up and down input for gyro, left and right are stick inputs only
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
No, it measures left and right too, it's that the right stick will only do left and right when gyro is enabled.
ah, i got a bit confused there.
in that case yeah i can agree that tilting left and right is kind of uncomfortable compared to up and down, our wrists arent made to really bend that way
 

01011001

Gold Member
I haven't used a dual sense, but the DS4 was quite comfortable. Their shoulder button placements are the most ergonomic actually, as your index finger falls between the two.

I wasn't impressed with the gyro in Splatoon with the Switch Pro. Seemed only useful for up and down.

the issue is not the placement, it's the angle of the triggers when you press them down.
a fully pressed down trigger on a DS4 basically is at a ~45° angle. that makes you push the controller upwards a bit every time you press the trigger. also the trigger has quite the resistance to it which doesn't help because now you actually have to push with some force and that will make the pushing the controller up issue worse.

you can compare that/test that by having, say, an Xbox One controller or Series X controller and a PS4 controller side by side.
now hold the controller in your hands relatively loosely, so that it is held in place but just about held place.
now slowly pull the right trigger without trying to counteract any movement on the controller that has.

you will find that the Xbox controller will remain relatively stationary and the trigger will be way easier to pull, while the DS4 will move quite a bit and if you hold it too loosely it might even slip out of your grasp. (for that latter thing to happen on an Xbox controller you'd basically have to not hold it at all and instead just havebit lie on your hands)

AND BEFORE ANYONE TRIES TO MAKE THIS INTO A CONSOLE FIGHT, FUCK OFF! THIS IS JUST A COMPARISON THAT IS OF NO REAL CONSEQUENCE WHILE USING THE CONTROLLERS FOR ALMOST ANY GAME YOU CAN PLAY WITH THEM, THIS IS SIMPLY SOMETHING A CONTROLLER THAT HEAVILY RELIES ON GYRO AIMING WOULD NEED TO BE DESIGNED AROUND! OK? GOOD!
 

teezzy

Banned
I think the issue is that the Steam controller wasn't really that well made. the gyroscope was pretty bad apparently and the touch pads also not that amazing.

modern laptops have extremely high precision touch pads and modern controllers have way better gyroscopes.

so a high quality controller with a better pad and a better gyro would be amazing for shooters. also the ergonomics have to be good otherwise your aim will jump around while pulling the trigger. the PlayStation controllers are especially bad in that regard as their triggers make you push the controller upwards quite a bit due to how they are angled and the high resistance they have on the feather

Blasphemy

Steam controller had a learning curve but it was an absolute playground of customization and convenience once you adapted to its quirks
 

Dream-Knife

Member
the issue is not the placement, it's the angle of the triggers when you press them down.
a fully pressed down trigger on a DS4 basically is at a ~45° angle. that makes you push the controller upwards a bit every time you press the trigger. also the trigger has quite the resistance to it which doesn't help because now you actually have to push with some force and that will make the pushing the controller up issue worse.

you can compare that/test that by having, say, an Xbox One controller or Series X controller and a PS4 controller side by side.
now hold the controller in your hands relatively loosely, so that it is held in place but just about held place.
now slowly pull the right trigger without trying to counteract any movement on the controller that has.

you will find that the Xbox controller will remain relatively stationary and the trigger will be way easier to pull, while the DS4 will move quite a bit and if you hold it too loosely it might even slip out of your grasp. (for that latter thing to happen on an Xbox controller you'd basically have to not hold it at all and instead just havebit lie on your hands)

AND BEFORE ANYONE TRIES TO MAKE THIS INTO A CONSOLE FIGHT, FUCK OFF! THIS IS JUST A COMPARISON THAT IS OF NO REAL CONSEQUENCE WHILE USING THE CONTROLLERS FOR ALMOST ANY GAME YOU CAN PLAY WITH THEM, THIS IS SIMPLY SOMETHING A CONTROLLER THAT HEAVILY RELIES ON GYRO AIMING WOULD NEED TO BE DESIGNED AROUND! OK? GOOD!
Yeah I see what you're saying now.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Yeah I see what you're saying now.

the Switch Pro controller of course dodges that issue almost completely by having a shallow digital trigger, but that's not really an option for a modern controller imo, you have to be able to play racing games after all... NINTENDO! HEAR THAT? 🤣
 

Dream-Knife

Member
the Switch Pro controller of course dodges that issue almost completely by having a shallow digital trigger, but that's not really an option for a modern controller imo, you have to be able to play racing games after all... NINTENDO! HEAR THAT? 🤣
F-Zero :messenger_crying:

Edit: Guess that doesn't really matter for that game though.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Upgradable GPU. Have it as a slot system that you can buy a better one and pop it in. Hell sell it without a gpu at start and people can choose how much to spend on it.
I don't like the idea of the initial console costing 300 and then having to buy another 250 dollar gpu just for gaming performance lol
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
more powerful hardware is all i need.

I know this is crazy, but i hope in the far future console able to generate a "hologram" screen for us to play games without a monitor or a TV, good for vacation.
 

ChiefDada

Member
Nothing in particular comes to mind on the hardware front as I'm pretty certain my expectations will be exceeded by a decent margin based on early tech demos from UE5. I know OP asked about hardware, but the software advancements have been much more exciting for me. For example, I hope Sony is able to push their compression techniques very close to the 20gb/s aka 4:1 ratio limit of the decompression block before the end of the generation to keep install sizes as small as possible (likewise for Xbox). I'd hate for install size to be a barrier between gamers and highly detailed/diverse game worlds.
 
I mean, the best games of all time have had VERY appealing graphics and artstyles to look at. like even the games people cite for not having "good graphics" but amazing gameplay are usually appealing. Super Mario World, Sonic 2, OOT (and by that game i mean just the temples) the list goes on
True. I was thinking if I could come up with one universally acclaimed game that objectively looks like shit. I can't. Minecraft, which looks like total ass to me, still appeals visually to millions of users.
 

Drew1440

Member
If motion controls were to return I'd prefer them to be their own standalone games, I absolutely hated how the six axis stuff was shoehorned into early PS3 titles like Lair, I'd rather press buttons than waggle the controller to unresponsive controls.

The Kinect stuff was fine, I'd like to see Microsoft return to that one day especially during lockdown, it was a good way to keep active.
 
while i think this is kind of a good idea on paper, it also brings back the problems of PCs. Many developers (especially Japanese ones) develop exclusively for console because of the comfort of only having to optimize for one set of hardware, so making consoles more upgradeable will probably make them shit bricks. Also, PCs still have the advantage of having parts developed by not just the original manufacturers but also third parties. It's hard to find anyone using an RTX 3060 or 6600 XT made primarily by Nvidia and AMD. They usually get different SKUs made by EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI, XFX etc. I find it incredibly unlikely that this will happen on consoles, since they'd have more control over the parts. And finally, i wouldn't want a 3ds/New 3ds situation where games are made specifically to only run on consoles with these specifications. (the N3ds had games that couldn't run on a base 3ds, like minecraft and xenoblade chronicles) With PCs even the worst computer can run any game. It may not be at a desired performance, but it will run. That might not happen on consoles when corporations have more control on what you can buy and what you can sell.
Leave consoles to what they do best- Convenience.
(also thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best i know you'd like my first post. You're a sucker for stuff like this and i can't blame you for it really LMAO)
Only problem with that is... Long cycle of several years, held back by the same outdated hardware.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
True. I was thinking if I could come up with one universally acclaimed game that objectively looks like shit. I can't. Minecraft, which looks like total ass to me, still appeals visually to millions of users.
Maybe fallout new vegas? it's the peak of the franchise but it also looks fucking awful and it'd be hard to recommend it to anyone who has eyes
 

rodrigolfp

Gold Member
i'd like to see Microsoft add gyroscopes to their controllers so we can finally normalize motion aiming in FPS games and rid ourselves of aim assist entirely.
the right analog stick has to go bye bye.

Sony introduced it, not knowing how to really use it, they experimented with stuff like mimicking weapon movement with it in Ape Escape, and then after a while developers adopted it as a way to control the camera and aim in shooters

but for that stuff there are better alternatives that give more precision and are mote intuitive for new players as well.

alternative 1: The Steam controller like gigantic, high precision touch pad, with haptic feedback and circles for orientation.

alternative 2: A Trackball with a high DPS laser optic

imo both of these would not only increase precision but also make crossplay in shooters more even between mouse and controller players and it is way more intuitive to aim with a mouse-like input than it is with an analog stick.

the closest we ever came to something similar was the DS and shooters on the DS.
the early models always included a thumb-strap you could use to use the pressure sensitive touchscreen with pretty high precision using a single thumb.
so games like Metroid Prime Hunters, GoldenEye Rogue Agent and other shooters on the DS had REALLY good aiming controls using the touch screen.
(I think the strap in this video is not the official one but many accessory bundles came with third party ones)

ALSO a high quality touch pad would basically be immune to stick drift, and right sticks are way more prone to drift than left sticks due to the aiming in shooters putting way more strain on them


the right analog stick is a suboptimal controller element for the job it is doing in modern games.


for traditionalists or people afraid of change they could offer a classic controller with a right stick of course... also for easier backwards compatibility (although you can easily emulate stick inputs on a touch pad, maybe suboptimal for some games but not terrible)

Seeing some hardcore players thinking aim assist is nice and not a very sad thing, I would not have hope in this.
 
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Another controller innovation id like to push is the standardization of back pedals
we've pretty much been experimenting with them on and off for a while now and at this point it's shocking how the XSX and PS5 don't have back pedals as standard buttons at this point. It can make hard to press buttons far easier to press since they're on the back and they encourage customization and creativity on how people use their controllers more which is something that PC users have and enjoy a lot. Although, i'm confused on whether they should be remappable buttons or straight up just new buttons outright

I think the current issue with backpedals is the company that came up with them owns the patent. So, Sony and Microsoft would have to license it out from them or implement them in a way that can't be proven as infringing on the patent, otherwise they could get taken to court.

Namco did the same thing back in the day with the NeGcon but at least that was for a specific genre of game and its purpose was effectively superseded with the advent of analog sticks and better racing steering wheel peripherals.

Since consoles are more like PC's I'd love if both Sony and Microsoft released an official keyboard and mouse combo for their consoles. Have it lap usable, easy to pick up and use. And native support for them in most titles and apps would be great.

Shooters are far better and more accurate with KB+M, instead of relying on aim assists. And relieves a lot of issue surrounding matchmaking on consoles vs PC in competitive shooters.

It's wild that so far Sega and Nintendo are still the only ones who've offered official keyboard/mouse peripherals.





*Technically ASCII made this one but it was officially licensed and I think Nintendo partnered with them on it so close enough.

Nothing in particular comes to mind on the hardware front as I'm pretty certain my expectations will be exceeded by a decent margin based on early tech demos from UE5. I know OP asked about hardware, but the software advancements have been much more exciting for me. For example, I hope Sony is able to push their compression techniques very close to the 20gb/s aka 4:1 ratio limit of the decompression block before the end of the generation to keep install sizes as small as possible (likewise for Xbox). I'd hate for install size to be a barrier between gamers and highly detailed/diverse game worlds.

Definitely hoping for this, would also help a lot with download sizes as things seem to be getting increasingly digital. However, certain data types can only be compressed so far before too much information is lost and difficult (or impossible) to decompress successfully, since the decompression algorithms have their limits. I think it should be possible though for most asset data that can compress at very high ratios to reach those upper limits.

I'm really interested to see the usage of SSD I/O in the new systems as well as cloud technology for certain types of asset/data streaming and offloading certain technical performance from local hardware (to increase fidelity, etc.) as the generation goes on.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Steam Deck minus the screen as a controller with dual track pads and haptics on all buttons, sticks, triggers
 

22•22

Doesnt need recognition
I'm a filthy casual since a couple of years so...

More power, memory. Cooler system, as quite as possible and premium controllers with different layouts depending on your pack you choose. (Ofcourse a default one to purchase as well) Disc or Digital choice. Full BC) .... ????
 
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hinch7

Member
It's wild that so far Sega and Nintendo are still the only ones who've offered official keyboard/mouse peripherals.





*Technically ASCII made this one but it was officially licensed and I think Nintendo partnered with them on it so close enough.
Yeah its a missed opportunity imo. I had the keyboard and mouse combo for the Dreamcast. Was great. Allowed me to browse comfortably online (on a console in that era was no heard of) and absolutely destroyed in Quake III Arena.

And that GameCube one looks nuts lol. Pretty interesting hybrid controller.
 
I always thought the 2013 'IllumiRoom' concept from Microsoft was really cool and could have been a nice bridge between those who are skeptical of VR (like me) and those who still want to enhance their immersion in games beyond just a TV screen. The drawback was that it required a Kinect sensor and camera to operate, not to mention an adequate space behind/around your screen to function as intended, but the end result from the videos provided seem really ahead of its time. I can just imagine a horror game where the monster chasing you is within your peripheral view or a mech game where your whole living room wall becomes the pilot seat and controls.

 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
1080p / 60 fps as standard lol

Or if you want to be pedantic about it, 2160 / 120.

None of this 'up to' shit none of this 'aims for' shit.

But It runs at 1233 / 90 fps in places but at other times its 1900 at 60 fps. Its dynamic.

Just FUCK OFF.
 

jigglet

Member
In a shooter yeah it's impractical, but it's better for changing directions in a shooter than a stick can, and in general has far superior camera control. Performing a 180 on an analog stick vs a trackball is a night and day difference The problem with a trackball is that it's a bit harder to control than an analog stick and you're putting all of your camera control in charge of a thing that basically has 0 friction and goes out of control wildly. But then you compare it to a stick which lets you move at a slow, limited speed in a small space which makes precision far harder

I'm sure if enough money was thrown at this a solution could be found. Like momentum-based friction; unless you flick it hard, it will have a bit of mechanical resistance. Once you flick it, it spins as freely as meatspin.

EDIT: take a look at the Logitech scroll wheels (the metal ones). It works precisely like this. It feels exactly like a regular mouse wheel, but if you flick it hard it spins like mad.
 
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Corndog

Member
Uh.... wow. Holy shit. This might be the best message I've read on this thread yet. You've actually made a really really good case for the removal of the Right analog stick. And thinking about it, every application ive seen it used for in games would be performed better by a touchpad or a trackball. That's an amazing idea
No thanks.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I'm sure if enough money was thrown at this a solution could be found. Like momentum-based friction; unless you flick it hard, it will have a bit of mechanical resistance. Once you flick it, it spins as freely as meatspin.

EDIT: take a look at the Logitech scroll wheels (the metal ones). It works precisely like this. It feels exactly like a regular mouse wheel, but if you flick it hard it spins like mad.
wouldn't that be kind of hard for making more REALLY precise movements? since yknow, mouse wheels kind of scroll in increments rather than a completely smooth movement?
 

jigglet

Member
wouldn't that be kind of hard for making more REALLY precise movements? since yknow, mouse wheels kind of scroll in increments rather than a completely smooth movement?

Innovation by definition is something no one else has thought of. There are ideas out there to be found. I don’t know the right solution but I don’t think it’s safe to assume it’s an impossible challenge.

Also you’re taking my example literally. I just meant there is an example that exists of a mechanism that provides a multi-level resistance. I didn’t mean to literally cut and paste that and call it a day.
 
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