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What does Sony's silence mean?

Yoboman

Member
The FUD on PS5 is laughably weak

Constantly about backwards compatibility, UI, console teardowns? Why? Because these are things that MS showed already

In reality, these are incidental features that will not sell the hardware

Since the start of this year Sony has had 2 major showcases and a developer focused one that have absolutely wiped the floor with the competition in terms of engagement metrics

During this they've:

- Unveiled a fantastic first year lineup
- Had COD, GTA, Fortnite, Resident Evil, FFXVI, NBA2K on stage. Lending name association to PS5 while all eyes were on them
- Established the UE5 in association with their hardware
- Unveiled an exciting new controller
- Provided their vision for the hardware via Mark Cerny
- Locked up FF exclusivity
- Announced a long awaited remake in Demons Souls
- Announced a new Spiderman
- Announced a new numbered GT
- Announced the follow up to Horizon
- Announced a new God of War
- Had multiple tech showpieces in Demons Souls, Ratchet, Horizon and UE5
- Nailed the pricing
- Broke the internet with preorders and literally had people lining up in a pandemic to get store preorders

In reality, they have put the biggest names in gaming on their stages. Multiple 10+ million sellers. They've had the games and they've had the gameplay to show. They have all the technical showpieces for next gen. These things will sell consoles, not a picture of the motherboard.

Microsoft has completely focused on the wrong things and if not for the Bethesda save, they would be in complete free fall.
 
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anaphase

Member
 

Boglin

Member
Sony has been silent on PS5 and AMD has been silent on RDNA2. Mark Cerny alluded to PS5 features being used in upcoming AMD graphics cards as a result of their collaboration. :pie_thinking:
Clearly this means that both are going to fail and are on their last legs trying to delay their inevitable collapse in the market. Also, NDAs don't exist.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
The FUD on PS5 is laughably weak

Constantly about backwards compatibility, UI, console teardowns? Why? Because these are things that MS showed already

In reality, these are incidental features that will not sell the hardware

Since the start of this year Sony has had 2 major showcases and a developer focused one that have absolutely wiped the floor with the competition in terms of engagement metrics

During this they've:

- Unveiled a fantastic first year lineup
- Had COD, GTA, Fortnite, Resident Evil, FFXVI, NBA2K on stage. Lending name association to PS5 while all eyes were on them
- Established the UE5 in association with their hardware
- Unveiled an exciting new controller
- Provided their vision for the hardware via Mark Cerny
- Locked up FF exclusivity
- Announced a long awaited remake in Demons Souls
- Announced a new Spiderman
- Announced a new numbered GT
- Announced the follow up to Horizon
- Announced a new God of War
- Had multiple tech showpieces in Demons Souls, Ratchet, Horizon and UE5
- Nailed the pricing
- Broke the internet with preorders and literally had people lining up in a pandemic to get store preorders

In reality, they have put the biggest names in gaming on their stages. Multiple 10+ million sellers. They've had the games and they've had the gameplay to show. They have all the technical showpieces for next gen. These things will sell consoles, not a picture of the motherboard.

Microsoft has completely focused on the wrong things and if not for the Bethesda save, they would be in complete free fall.

I don't think anyone is debating Sony hasn't done certain things well. This is soley to speculate on what they haven't said regarding certain features and what it could mean relative to the competition and what there doing.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Sony has been silent on PS5 and AMD has been silent on RDNA2. Mark Cerny alluded to PS5 features being used in upcoming AMD graphics cards as a result of their collaboration. :pie_thinking:
Clearly this means that both are going to fail and are on their last legs trying to delay their inevitable collapse in the market. Also, NDAs don't exist.

Are you suggesting NDAs are the reason we haven't had enhanced game news on the Sony front? Or that Mark Cerny wasnt aware a tear breakdown would break said NDA when he said it would happen soon back in March?

No one is talking in black and white like this is the be all and end all of the console. Were just analysing a missing part of the message that the competition is focusing on.
 

Boglin

Member
Are you suggesting NDAs are the reason we haven't had enhanced game news on the Sony front? Or that Mark Cerny wasnt aware a tear breakdown would break said NDA when he said it would happen soon back in March?

No one is talking in black and white like this is the be all and end all of the console. Were just analysing a missing part of the message that the competition is focusing on.

I'm suggesting your 3 scenarios omit important parts of the market landscape in order to draw conclusions from silence.

Microsofts silence on next gen games doesn't mean they can't play them or don't have any. I'm sick of people inferring bad news because they feel entitled to information.
No news does not equal bad news for either company.

Mark Cerny gave no date for the tear down unless I missed it. Do you happen to remember when we got the PS4 breakdown before its release or does that not matter because Microsoft does it different?
 

Hostile_18

Banned
I'm suggesting your 3 scenarios omit important parts of the market landscape in order to draw conclusions from silence.

Microsofts silence on next gen games doesn't mean they can't play them or don't have any. I'm sick of people inferring bad news because they feel entitled to information.
No news does not equal bad news for either company.

Mark Cerny gave no date for the tear down unless I missed it. Do you happen to remember when we got the PS4 breakdown before its release or does that not matter because Microsoft does it different?

I think your been far too defensive.

Of course no news dosnt mean bad news but it *can*, theres so many variables at play. Its interesting that they are leaving enhanced backwards compatability till right near the end of the campaign, that is all.

I don't think its entitled to know how a machine is going to handle my large digital game library to be honest. For some it's a massive selling point of the console. Maybe there is nothing wrong and it will all be revealed in time and compete with Microsofts efforts but theres nothing wrong with questioning something that isn't a automatic given. Even more relevant with the context of the current presidents "who would want to play old games" comments from a company that once was the market leader in backwards compatibility.
 
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Boglin

Member
I think your been far too defensive.

It's very possible that I'm being too defensive. If your main draw is primarily with enhanced BC then of course that's going to be a big concern of yours and I would be anxious too in that position, so if that is what you want my key take away to be from what you're saying then I apologize for misunderstanding you.

My first post was in response to your OP which I interpreted more as you taking the lack of several separate pieces of information to paint a broad picture, assuming the worst from Sony while giving MS the benefit of the doubt.
I've just seen too many concern trolls lately.
 

Skifi28

Member
The console doesn't actually exist. Under that large ugly cover, there's a PS4 inside (not even a pro).
 

BlackM1st

Banned
It means that they're broke cheap fucks and have a terrible marketing department. Nothing new for Sony, really.

Look at the Walkman, VAiO, SonyEricsson phones, etc. Great products, horrible marketing. Same shit happening with PS and Bravia.

PS4 marketing was an anomaly I think.
And yeah, MS really dropped the ball with the 1. Now MS is more focused and spending money on gaming part of their gaming console. I know, crazy strategy.


PS5 will still sell more. Much more.
 

dano1

Member
Sony has been silent on PS5 and AMD has been silent on RDNA2. Mark Cerny alluded to PS5 features being used in upcoming AMD graphics cards as a result of their collaboration. :pie_thinking:
Clearly this means that both are going to fail and are on their last legs trying to delay their inevitable collapse in the market. Also, NDAs don't exist.

Thats why I just watched 2 advertisements for it tonight😂. Ok Pachter Jr.
 

dano1

Member
I'm cancelling my pre-order, sitting it out and seeing how things develop. They're back to arrogant Sony days. A month to launch and what do they do? Give it to a bunch of Japanese YouTubers to mostly show the Playroom "game". Fuck off.

Knowing you could sell your pre order for double of what you payed for it doesn’t seem like a good idea... oh right you never got one in the first place...
 

diffusionx

Member
So if Sony talked more, they would... sell more consoles they can't make?

I think it's kind of weird and depressing that so many people are buying these expensive devices based on very little (especially the XSX), but I don't blame Sony or MS for using that to their advantage.
 

Dr Bass

Member
Lol at this....i really want some of the cool aid you guys are drinking

I don't think the aid they are drinking is necessarily cool or uncool, but it might be similar to the aid of the kool variety you would be drinking if you are attempting to ignore the reality of the "engagement metrics" mentioned in your quoted post.
 

longdi

Banned
We are just a month and days from launch.

Imo Sony silence feels closer to complancy and arrogance, rather than having a grand master plan.
Every Jimbo interviews i seen of late, reeks of we got this in the bag(when they havent!).
Its like Jimbo is channeling his Euro success and has (mistakenly) dropped deep into cruise mode 🤷‍♀️
 

Kumomeme

Member
its either they is confident, since if they panic the wont be this quiet or, they has different strategy in mind.

also not suprise if they reserve all their pr effort after or close launch.

ms on otherhand not as 'comfortable' as sony. they lose massive mindshare this gen, while sony is skyrocket and strengthen their brand. so it make sense for ms to be bit 'aggresive' to make sure it wont be repeat of prelaunch and earlier of this gen. well from what i see, they currently in better position than previously.

still nothing guarantee yet. we will know once next gen actually start and few years after that.
 
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GiJoint

Member
You could argue they don’t need to show jackshit - Sony are so far ahead of the competition, they’re sitting pretty atop that mountain...but is that the right thing to do? I don’t think so, they were open and more engaged with all of us with the run up and launch of the PS4, for the gamers and all that jazz.

PS5 will sell itself we know it will but I’d like to see more of that positive PS4 Sony attitude.
 

Mr.ODST

Member
This is true looking at the youtube channels
one of them tried to touch the ps5 and got yelled at by sony ninjas.....seriously wtf

Something is seriously dodgy about the PS5, Might not be but the silence and heavily controlled media while Xbox is just freeflowing and letting people fully test the product a month in advance, its ok people saying "we have seen the games" but UI etc is important especially console features.
 

Three

Member

Backwards compatibility is used when it's done and done well. And even if it wasn't, preserving access to old games is worth doing it anyway.
Having BC is nice but that statistic isn't that great when they have been offering these old BC games on games with gold. Of course some will launch those games.

That xbox live data is correct:
Xbox One owners only spent 1.5% of their gaming time playing previous generation games.
 

Mmnow

Member
Having BC is nice but that statistic isn't that great when they have been offering these old BC games on games with gold. Of course some will launch those games.

That xbox live data is correct:
Xbox One owners only spent 1.5% of their gaming time playing previous generation games.
What? So you're arguing that people owning BC titles is artificially pumping up the BC numbers?

The 1.5 per cent figure was never accurate.

 

Three

Member
What? So you're arguing that people owning BC titles is artificially pumping up the BC numbers?

The 1.5 per cent figure was never accurate.

I'm arguing that the 50% is inflated because that statistic includes anyone just launching the free old games they gave with GWG. If you read the article they were forced to say it is incorrect because MS said their xbox live api is in some ways inaccurate but they provided no actual correct statistics to counter usage. Only that 50% have played meaning even just launched and the total sum of playtime since it was introduced.


Microsoft's response to us indicates the API usage data allowed users to "compare [their usage] with other gamers on the service," suggesting to us that this kind of relative comparison from sampling may still be reliable and worthwhile. But Microsoft has not provided us with sufficient information to answer this question of relative comparison reliability to our satisfaction, simply saying it considers the current analysis "grossly inaccurate and misleading due to an incomplete set of data and drawing conclusions about actual usage from data that approximates usage."
 

Mmnow

Member
I'm arguing that the 50% is inflated because that statistic includes anyone just launching the free old games they gave with GWG. If you read the article they were forced to say it is incorrect because MS said their xbox live api is in some ways inaccurate but they provided no actual correct statistics to counter usage. Only that 50% have played meaning even just launched and the total sum of playtime since it was introduced.
But it's a bad presumption. You're saying "if people didn't have BC games, they wouldn't have launched them."

The only way what you're saying makes sense is if a sizeable amount of people are either accidentally launching games or are trying exactly one game and not playing it beyond the launch screen. Even if they're putting any effort into a BC game, why wouldnt it fairly count towards the 50 per cent, regardless of how the game was delivered?

You're welcome to doubt Microsoft's correction. Neither of us can say for sure they're telling the truth. I don't see what they'd get out of lying.
 

Three

Member
But it's a bad presumption. You're saying "if people didn't have BC games, they wouldn't have launched them."

The only way what you're saying makes sense is if a sizeable amount of people are either accidentally launching games or are trying exactly one game and not playing it beyond the launch screen. Even if they're putting any effort into a BC game, why wouldnt it fairly count towards the 50 per cent, regardless of how the game was delivered?

You're welcome to doubt Microsoft's correction. Neither of us can say for sure they're telling the truth. I don't see what they'd get out of lying.
I mean that they are more likely to launch a game they got for free but it doesn't necessarily mean they invested their time in it.

I don't see what they would have to lose in providing the exact figure that corrects the 1.5% usage if it were actually any good. It probably isn't that's why.
 
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Mmnow

Member
I mean that they are more likely to launch a game they got for free but it doesn't necessarily mean they invested their time in it.

I don't see what they would have to lose in providing the exact figure that corrects the 1.5% usage if it were actually any good. It probably isn't that's why.
Right, and I'm telling you that's a bad presumption. You don't know how much people played their games, you're just raising it as a reason the figure is so high. It's just as likely its a good feature that people appreciate, but you don't like that answer.

Microsoft said 50 per cent. Believe it or not, that's not a confusing figure.

The more important question is why you don't want it to be a successful service? Backwards compatibility is a vital part of game preservation, why wouldnt you want it to also be popular?
 

Three

Member
Right, and I'm telling you that's a bad presumption. You don't know how much people played their games, you're just raising it as a reason the figure is so high. It's just as likely its a good feature that people appreciate, but you don't like that answer.

Microsoft said 50 per cent. Believe it or not, that's not a confusing figure.

The more important question is why you don't want it to be a successful service? Backwards compatibility is a vital part of game preservation, why wouldnt you want it to also be popular?
Why wouldn't I want it to be popular? I do. Doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye when someone tries to pull the wool over my eyes with statistics.

The 50% of users who used it in any capacity is something else I'm saying. 50% of users launched a BC game.

The 1.5% is usage per person (of hours played) . MS are using a completely different statistic, the 50%, because it makes it look better than it is. They were giving out old games with gold and that also boosted that figure but doesn't mean the user spent any time playing the old games.
 
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Mmnow

Member
Why wouldn't I want it to be popular? I do. Doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye when someone tries to pull the wool over my eyes with statistics.

The 50% of users who used it in any capacity is something else I'm saying. 50% of users launched a BC game.

The 1.5% is usage per person (of hours played) . MS are using a completely different statistic, the 50%, because it makes it look better than it is. They were giving out old games with gold and that also boosted that figure but doesn't mean the user spent any time playing the old games.
Nobody is asking you to turn a blind eye, but there's no evidence that it's a feature that doesn't get used. On fact, the evidence is to the contrary.

All we know is the amount of hours in the first year, the percentage used and that 1.5 per cent isn't correct. You can pick or choose that last one as you see fit.

Presume, because MS have continued devloping the program, that its successful, at least by the metrics they have chosen. And if its true you're happy that the service exists, quit trying to argue that nobody uses it. It doesn't matter anyway.
 
It's really simple, Sony fucked it up. They said two weeks ago there were going to be more preorders in a few days, where are they? It's going to be three weeks now and we still haven't got more preorders.
 
I can upload my receipt if it botherd you that much. I dont scalp like others on here. Dick

No, but you rage because they show games you didnt like?

Or because Japanese company demoed systems first to Japanese tubers?

Kind of weird reason to cancel pre-order.

Maybe buy a book about patience with the saved money? :)
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
With less than a month to go I wonder how long we realistically have to wait for standard BC and enhanced BC news. I'm awfully close to just hedging my bets and getting both consoles.

Also a little worrying how no one has even been able to pick up and touch a PS5 as opposed to XBSX that's at home in hands.

This doesn't feel like the PS4 confident Sony to me.
 

yurinka

Member

This seems possibly true considering they are only showing games but also seem to be in the same environment on each video.
Well, it's as controlled as the Series X hands on, since they are limited by NDA to talk only about certain topics. For the first round they were only allowed to talk about the BC with some of the 961 games that Series X BC supports as of now (they mentioned that 'hundred's of games' more would be added the following days..
 

geordiemp

Member
Arrogant Sony again
Arrogant Sony worst Sony

Thanks, interesting take. What do you consider is arrogant ?

Likely Sony and AMD are keeping certain features back under NDA, notice the leaked AMD CPU part (smaller one) is 2.5 Ghz and 40 CU and 256bus with infinity cache.

What do you think Sony will have ?

Sony will need to be instep with AMD for some of the tech reveal. If you believe that is arrogant then maybe you need to reconsider your reasoning.

Their silence to me means they don't have hardware that meets expectations. It's just that simple.

Your better than that, I know your background is software, but really ? What expectations exactly ? Ray tracing, options for 4k60 its all there.

We have already seen the hardware perform, and it performs well above expectations in games seen, so the only answer is how, does it punch above its weight and then we get into hardware NDA with AMD and likely similar reveal timescales.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
Their silence to me means they don't have hardware that meets expectations. It's just that simple.

The longer they leave it the longer that appears to be the case sadly.

Even if they just came out and said look day 1 we will only have this but were committing to so many enhanced patches in the future etc. That would be enough for me.
 
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