• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

What does Sony's silence mean?

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
Lol you are reaching. The console has PS4 BC. The OS UI is a non-isdue. It likely looks like PS3/PS4. Such a small concern compared to the games, and PS5 is already dominating in that department.

I guess it depends how important enhanced back compatibility is you as an individual. Some here couldn't care less, others it's a massive selling point. Both view points are valid and true but in either scenario I think back compatability deserves more than just a few confusing lines which later have to be corrected IMO, especially to those of us that really value improvements to old games.
 

Dee Dah Dave

Member
Nov 24, 2013
6,560
2,760
745
England, UK
Eh, it just seems like what I would expect from a new Sony console launch, they’ve never been great. Perhaps things are standing out more because Microsoft have made a return to good form Xbox, I dunno.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
So many people worried about the company that always deliver.........Sony does not do hype and endless boastful interviews, Sony simply delivers on day and date....Tomorrow will be a great day.....

Games yes agree 100%. Policies and tech, not often recently (see my earlier post #66 detailing).
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Isa

MoistPenetration

Neo Member
Mar 21, 2020
35
107
150
What about XBox’s silence on new games?

...see how that works?

Neither company have been as forthcoming as usual, thanks to Covid.

These concern threads about both company’s build up to launch are approaching trolling levels now.
This is true, but atleast they acknowledged it and said next gen gameplay is coming
 

RayHell

Member
Jan 11, 2020
333
634
320
Why does not worshipping Sony no matter what they do mean there's a problem.
Last week, my little girl was so pissed at us because we didn't want to reveal her gift before her birthday. She was crying and we were the worst parents. Turns out she had a cold the next day. Her reaction was a bit extreme but there was a reason behind.
 

timmyp53

Member
May 26, 2013
2,006
804
660
USA
Last week, my little girl was so pissed at us because we didn't want to reveal her gift before her birthday. She was crying and we were the worst parents. Turns out she had a cold the next day. Her reaction was a bit extreme but there was a reason behind.
Is she clairvoyant? 😅
 

Snakeyes313

Member
Apr 26, 2019
808
1,333
535
Leeds United Kingdom
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Jun 5, 2011
8,187
3,200
1,145
They are in trouble. Yield issues, RDNA 1, too large, can't match XSS, etc.




Or they are just taking turns with MS, no need compete for headlines, especially when it cannot translate into sales since no one can order either console right now.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
I personally would be disappointed with *just* 100% backwards compatability.

Imagine buying a new PC system and it can only run your old games as good as your last unit. Emulators and select enhanced XB1X titles have shown how to play old titles AMAZINGLY. Just add a disclaimer before you launch the game in boost mode if necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trogdor1123

DESTROYA

Member
Jan 1, 2011
10,078
15,458
1,200
USA
I personally would be disappointed with *just* 100% backwards compatability.

Imagine buying a new PC system and it can only run your old games as good as your last unit. Emulators and select enhanced XB1X titles have shown how to play old titles AMAZINGLY. Just add a disclaimer before you launch the game in boost mode if necessary.
Then you expect too much from $500 consoles and besides no one has said that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: existensmaximum

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
Then you expect too much from $500 consoles and besides no one has said that.

If you look at the power increase I don't think its unreasonable to want/desire that.

On the XB1X we have Red Dead running at native 4k. PC wise we can emulate anything up to the Switch. These new consoles with their stated specs should have no trouble running improved as far as I can see. Obviously some games may need a patch to output at a higher resolution/framerate however, if something like a PS2 emulator can do it natively without patches it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Last I heard the PS5 has the equivilant of a 2070 Super and the XBSX a 2080.

PS2 games that use the PS4 emulator output at Native 4k btw e.g Code Veronica.
 

Hendrick's

Member
Jan 7, 2014
9,732
17,268
995
Give a number at least. I mean, they came out and said 99% and you doubt it. What’s your prediction? If you’re that confident put it out there at least. Because if it’s 98.7% you’ll run out and say “told you so!!!!!”
Let’s go...write it out
Fine. I predict a few hundred PS4 titles at best.

I think eventually 99% will be. But not at launch. They never said at launch.
 
Last edited:

Concern

Member
Sep 20, 2020
2,955
8,731
580
This has been the complete opposite from the lead up to the Ps4.

Remember Jason Schreir saying "there are advantages that haven't been communicated yet"? If there were, they'd be announcing it everywhere they go like they did with the ssd or with used games on Ps4.

Handpicked Japanese youtubers to play astrobot, is not what we want to see.

People can blame covid but Microsoft has been way more transparent than Sony. Even took the heat for continuing to support the xbox one. And Sony played up the "we believe in generations" bullshit knowing they were releasing their games on Ps4.

Lots of goalposts have moved since then. Brand loyalty has to be the stupidest thing ever. Those corporations take advantage of that stupidity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hostile_18

DESTROYA

Member
Jan 1, 2011
10,078
15,458
1,200
USA
Fine. I predict a few hundred PS4 titles at best.

I think eventually 99% will be. But not at launch. They never said at launch.
Your the one that brought it up and nice way to move the goalposts , exactly they never said at launch and
neither did I but even you admit most eventually will and the original point I was making.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
5,075
5,561
830
Fine. I predict a few hundred PS4 titles at best.

I think eventually 99% will be. But not at launch. They never said at launch.
Ok cool. I give you props for that. So 90-95%. There are 4-5000 ps4 games? I think that’s the number. I think my math is right
Your the one that brought it up and nice way to move the goalposts , exactly they never said at launch and
neither did I but even you admit most eventually will and the original point I was making.
He pulled a sneaky edit but I got the quote in before he could. Hahahaha
 

WelshBluebird

Member
Jul 25, 2007
372
477
1,315
31
Wales, UK
In terms of the teardown, we didn't get one for the PS4 or PS4 Pro until the week before launch so I don't understand why anyone is surprised we haven't had the PS5 one yet.
 
Last edited:

Phrixotrichus

Banned
Aug 3, 2020
753
1,326
370
there is no silence, just a 100% sold through initial batch of consoles and a company that knew exactly that this would happen without them spending a single dollar for any extraordinary marketing.....
You´ll be able to get whatever information you deem necessary as soon as the console is actually available.
 
Last edited:

thelastword

Banned
Apr 7, 2006
11,732
11,949
2,000
First up if you have no raised eyebrows to Sony's PS5 strategy this gen then this thread isnt for you, glad your happy.

So we were promised a Tear down video back at the first official reveal by Mark Cerny. Just over a month out this has yet to arrive.

We haven't seen the OS or its features at all.

We still don't know about the backwards compatibility. The initial messaging was different even amongst Sony, later it was corrected but since then nothing.

I can think of three possible reasons for that, from best case to worst case.

Best case: They are saving amazing news right till last minute because they are that confident in what they have. It will be the knock out punch so to speak.

Ok case: They are intimidated by their rivals tech/Backwards Compatability and so have been working on features right till the end. They haven't revealed anything because they genuinely don't know what they will have/be able to produce come launch.

Worst case: They know their tech, backwards compatability approach is lesser than Microsofts so are purposely sweeping it under the rug. They know they have "lost" on these points, so best not to address it.

So Gaf which option is most likely? Or is there something else that might be going on that I haven't listed? Myself I'm hoping for option 1 but I thinking option 3 is the most likely at this point.
BC has never determined or won a generation, it didn't win this gen, it won't next gen.......Sony has delivered on what's most important. Showing games with raytracing and fast load times or games where the hardware is doing things that's not possible this gen, whether through game design, controller features and experiences, OS features, sound fidelity or graphical fidelity or physics.......

If what you are worried about is how Cod Ghosts is playing in near 2021, then maybe console generations is not really something that you have grasped or understood yet.....Yes we may dabble in a few last gen games at launch, some may do it just for review purposes, some may swing the BC pendulum just for console wars. In the final analysis BC is useless to the endgame of PS5 units sold in 7 years from now.....From the day people start playing the new COD and are cocooned into next gen games, there will be a bevy of high hitters in 2021 to keep them focused on next gen where they keep looking forward to the next big game after launch. I imagine PlayStation All Stars, COD, Demon Souls, Ratchet will keep players engaged for a long period of time. BC will be spoken of for about 2 seconds till people are wholly engaged with the next gen visuals train, with 4k native, 4k 60fps, high physics and AI games or games made with the new haptic controller in mind.......This is the focus, PS5 will have BC, but it's not it's end game and it should not be for any next gen console...
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
In terms of the teardown, we didn't get one for the PS4 or PS4 Pro until the week before launch so I don't understand why anyone is surprised we haven't had the PS5 one yet.

Pretty sure Mark Cerny said "in the tear down video that will happen soon" on the initial reveal, months ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Concern

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
BC has never determined or won a generation, it didn't win this gen, it won't next gen.......Sony has delivered on what's most important. Showing games with raytracing and fast load times or games where the hardware is doing things that's not possible this gen, whether through game design, controller features and experiences, OS features, sound fidelity or graphical fidelity or physics.......

If what you are worried about is how Cod Ghosts is playing in near 2021, then maybe console generations is not really something that you have grasped or understood yet.....Yes we may dabble in a few last gen games at launch, some may do it just for review purposes, some may swing the BC pendulum just for console wars. In the final analysis BC is useless to the endgame of PS5 units sold in 7 years from now.....From the day people start playing the new COD and are cocooned into next gen games, there will be a bevy of high hitters in 2021 to keep them focused on next gen where they keep looking forward to the next big game after launch. I imagine PlayStation All Stars, COD, Demon Souls, Ratchet will keep players engaged for a long period of time. BC will be spoken of for about 2 seconds till people are wholly engaged with the next gen visuals train, with 4k native, 4k 60fps, high physics and AI games or games made with the new haptic controller in mind.......This is the focus, PS5 will have BC, but it's not it's end game and it should not be for any next gen console...

See the game market is too big to lump all players like that into one. Theres loads of gamers who care about playing old games. This gen alone I've had great fun with the Bioshock and Uncharted collections, Dark Souls 2, Duke 3D, Final Fantasy 7, Shenmue etc. The demand is there, it's not all gamers sure but it's a sizable demographic. Consoles are pretty much PC's now and I for one can totally see how the expectation that old games will just work, improved is a expectation.

Even all that aside game preservation is always a worth while goal. Look how hard it is to play favorites like Silent Hill or Metal Gear 4 now. Call me crazy but I enjoy old games, just as much as old movies. The more tech facilitates this the better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Isa

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
2,859
3,703
505
PS5 will be sold out for a long time. Why hype it up even more? Plus they can trigger all the forum nerds at the same time.
 

Hendrick's

Member
Jan 7, 2014
9,732
17,268
995
He pulled a sneaky edit but I got the quote in before he could. Hahahaha
Nothing sneaky about it. Just finishing my thought. The reason they are being quiet about BC is because they have shit all working right now.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
Nothing sneaky about it. Just finishing my thought. The reason they are being quiet about BC is because they have shit all working right now.

Must admit from the blog correction I did wonder at the time if it was "damage control". They were 6 months out at the time so perhaps was easy to make promises on future content then and how they would get to where they needed to be by launch.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
I thought he said it during the deep dive in March

That right. The whole reason it was a video was because of everything going on and GDC been cancelled. The UK where I am was just entering its lockdown.

I wouldn't have thought a tech tear down would be effected by covid-19 tbh. At this rate we will have a youtuber doing it lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Isa

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,920
25,017
1,010
UK
Nothing sneaky about it. Just finishing my thought. The reason they are being quiet about BC is because they have shit all working right now.

Its because nobody players want to see new games first and a reason to upgrade,

Old games can be shown later, we still have 6/7 weeks to go.

Real question si why are MS showing only old games and nothing new, or pay a third party to demsnstrate ray tracing and good graphics running on a game such as Valhalla on XSX.

Thats why people want to see, not 10 year old games.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DESTROYA

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
5,075
5,561
830
That right. The whole reason it was a video was because of everything going on and GDC been cancelled. The UK where I am was just entering its lockdown.

I wouldn't have thought a tech tear down would be effected by covid-19 tbh. At this rate we will have a youtuber doing it lol.

yeah I remember at the time there were question of production too. The fact that both consoles are releasing this year is pretty awesome considering all this year has brought us. Console war BS aside, whoever got a preorder for the system they want is gonna have something good come out of this year at least.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hostile_18

thelastword

Banned
Apr 7, 2006
11,732
11,949
2,000
I think he did. Then the quarantine happened and both companies shelved any new newsuntil recently.
Exactly......, besides, Mark Cerny's speech was recorded way before it was shown or uploaded to youtube.....The pandemic persisted and is still there. Anything they delayed showing was to our advantage as gamers, the OS, the games have all evolved and are better for showing now. The hard reality of game development during Covid cannot be easy, yet Sony has shown us many games far along the dev cycle, that can only suggest that they were the ones ahead of the curve and prepared for next gen vs the competition.......

If all you have as the competition is to drum up BC tones whilst not showing us any next gen looking games, then what is the purpose of next gen......One company was not ready for the next generation as the other. Sony's silence has nothing to do with not being prepared, they have a great launch with great games ahead, looking really polished too, so much for all their silence on RT and 4k native or 60fps as well, because they are delivering a bevy of those features at launch.......

Sony's silence is because they are leaders of the industry, they dance to their own beat....Sony does not have to react to anything the competition does or says; buying publishers, saying Sony does not have RT hardware or VRS or RDNA2, saying they have the most powerful console, saying they have over 4000 games.....all that means little to nothing. People are not phased or moved by any of this tomfoolery, people are engaged by showing off great next gen games...... and there is only one console that has shown us a glimpse of what next gen will be about.....
 

BlitzerRadic

Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,439
689
600
San Francisco
All the stuff OP complaining about don't mean shit. Like if a purchaser was genuinely bothered by it, then they'd go buy an xbox. But for the vast majority of people buying PS5 are probably in the same situation as I am: I'm ready to move on from PS4 and I'm not going to buy an xbox because I am in Sony's ecosystem. So the only option is PS5.

OP and everyone complaining about stupid shit like there's no teardown is out of touch if they think that's actually going to affect someone's purchasing decision. That's about as dumb as basing a purchasing decision of a car on whether or not the manufacturer shows you a pic of the engine bay in marketing materials.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
All the stuff OP complaining about don't mean shit. Like if a purchaser was genuinely bothered by it, then they'd go buy an xbox. But for the vast majority of people buying PS5 are probably in the same situation as I am: I'm ready to move on from PS4 and I'm not going to buy an xbox because I am in Sony's ecosystem. So the only option is PS5.

OP and everyone complaining about stupid shit like there's no teardown is out of touch if they think that's actually going to affect someone's purchasing decision. That's about as dumb as basing a purchasing decision of a car on whether or not the manufacturer shows you a pic of the engine bay in marketing materials.

Well it's more they said it would happen soon and didnt with regards to the tear down.

Back compatability wise Sony has such a rich history of amazing games it would be a massive shame to just hit the reset button every generation IMO. Dont you have a favourite Sony game wouldn't you'd love to play it in native 4k at 60fps next play through? Perhaps more essentially you won't have to ever worry about old hardware breaking down.
 

J____Av

Member
Jun 12, 2020
235
328
260
Nobody knows. It's been a strange year for Sony fans.

I assume it's bad management. We all know that they had a huge restructure a year ago. Maybe they aren't working well together.

Almost every poll has them destroying Xbox as much or more than last gen. They are doing something right because their hype is through the roof
 

Yoboman

Member
Sep 17, 2005
20,859
18,934
1,890
Tear downs have typically been a close to launch or at launch event for hardware

Series X is the exception, not the rule
 

thelastword

Banned
Apr 7, 2006
11,732
11,949
2,000
See the game market is too big to lump all players like that into one. Theres loads of gamers who care about playing old games. This gen alone I've had great fun with the Bioshock and Uncharted collections, Dark Souls 2, Duke 3D, Final Fantasy 7, Shenmue etc. The demand is there, it's not all gamers sure but it's a sizable demographic. Consoles are pretty much PC's now and I for one can totally see how the expectation that old games will just work, improved is a expectation.

Even all that aside game preservation is always a worth while goal. Look how hard it is to play favorites like Silent Hill or Metal Gear 4 now. Call me crazy but I enjoy old games, just as much as old movies. The more tech facilitates this the better.
Yet PS5 will have BC for PS4 games guaranteed, you just need to wait for details, but if the primary reason you are buying a PS5 is to play old games, then perhaps you should just stick to PS4 till you are ready to make the jump.......I mean it's easy enough, seeing as how getting a PS5 pre-order is so hard, so you could be enjoying all the old games still and let people who want to play next gen games have at it.....

The other point is, there is not a huge demographic for BC. Sony has done a survey after the PS3 gen showing that very few persons used BC and records on XBOX live early this gen shows pretty much nobody uses XBOX to play old games as opposed to current gen games....Even Netflix has a bigger slice of the XBOX gamer's time than BC games, and that's by a large margin....So no, if the biggest takeaway on how the next gen will shape up is determined by what MS has shown of BC, then perhaps you really did not pay attention to what happened last gen or perhaps general gamer's reception both last gen and in the buildup to next gen.

The reality is, Sony shows anything and views rack up, that's where the excitement and anticipation is, it has nothing to do with blind loyalty, it has everything to do with precedence and a history of delivering.....Everybody knows that Sony has the goods and they will deliver it all gen, when they choose to show certain details is really irrelevant and it's actually a perfect strategy to not show all your stuff all at once......A month is still a long time where Sony can show so much.....Why should they have shown everything way back in March or April or June, it makes little sense......Just look at how excited the whole internet will be tomorrow, because they are excited for the system, not blown up features that mean little to how many PS5's are sold in the final analysis.......BC is not going to sell PS5, it's just a bonus feature, which they have too, so even you have nothing to worry about there...
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
Yet PS5 will have BC for PS4 games guaranteed, you just need to wait for details, but if the primary reason you are buying a PS5 is to play old games, then perhaps you should just stick to PS4 till you are ready to make the jump.......I mean it's easy enough, seeing as how getting a PS5 pre-order is so hard, so you could be enjoying all the old games still and let people who want to play next gen games have at it.....

The other point is, there is not a huge demographic for BC. Sony has done a survey after the PS3 gen showing that very few persons used BC and records on XBOX live early this gen shows pretty much nobody uses XBOX to play old games as opposed to current gen games....Even Netflix has a bigger slice of the XBOX gamer's time than BC games, and that's by a large margin....So no, if the biggest takeaway on how the next gen will shape up is determined by what MS has shown of BC, then perhaps you really did not pay attention to what happened last gen or perhaps general gamer's reception both last gen and in the buildup to next gen.

The reality is, Sony shows anything and views rack up, that's where the excitement and anticipation is, it has nothing to do with blind loyalty, it has everything to do with precedence and a history of delivering.....Everybody knows that Sony has the goods and they will deliver it all gen, when they choose to show certain details is really irrelevant and it's actually a perfect strategy to not show all your stuff all at once......A month is still a long time where Sony can show so much.....Why should they have shown everything way back in March or April or June, it makes little sense......Just look at how excited the whole internet will be tomorrow, because they are excited for the system, not blown up features that mean little to how many PS5's are sold in the final analysis.......BC is not going to sell PS5, it's just a bonus feature, which they have too, so even you have nothing to worry about there...

Well the primary reason for buying a PS5 is *enhanced* BC rather than just BC. It's easier for me to get excited about playing classics at a higher fidelity and response time than it is new games which are an unknown quantity.

Because generations are so far apart I don't think you can just look at a console and say it's because it did or didnt have BC that made is a success or failure. Sure the PS4 without backwards compatibility was a success but how much more of it would it of been had it had it. I feel the whole issue is even more important now because we are all tied into large digital library's. How can not playing the games we love better than ever not appeal to the kind of people investing so much money in these library's. It's the reason we don't watch Star Wars on VHS, because tech can enhance the experiences we love.

The thirst for remasters and ports has been so real this gen I just can't believe it isn't an important factor. It will be interesting to see how profitable MS's retro offerings have been on its store. I'm sure the relatively low work load involved has made them very profitable.

No one can say for certain but I think even if say 20% of their respective audiences want to play their games enhanced that isnt an insignificant number.
 

Three

Member
Oct 26, 2014
6,704
4,520
690
It's likely because they don't need to be advertising next gen. They make more profit selling PS4s and the PS5s are sold out absolutely everywhere in the world. Why would they need to spend money on marketing or shipping out freebies to DF, and US influencers right now? If anything they shouldn't because they are in short supply (sell them to customers) and they might actually nitpick on some bullshit. Anything they do say isn't going to increase sales is it, it's sold out.
 
Last edited:

Mmnow

Member
Jun 16, 2020
1,025
1,713
370
Yet PS5 will have BC for PS4 games guaranteed, you just need to wait for details, but if the primary reason you are buying a PS5 is to play old games, then perhaps you should just stick to PS4 till you are ready to make the jump.......I mean it's easy enough, seeing as how getting a PS5 pre-order is so hard, so you could be enjoying all the old games still and let people who want to play next gen games have at it.....

The other point is, there is not a huge demographic for BC. Sony has done a survey after the PS3 gen showing that very few persons used BC and records on XBOX live early this gen shows pretty much nobody uses XBOX to play old games as opposed to current gen games....Even Netflix has a bigger slice of the XBOX gamer's time than BC games, and that's by a large margin....So no, if the biggest takeaway on how the next gen will shape up is determined by what MS has shown of BC, then perhaps you really did not pay attention to what happened last gen or perhaps general gamer's reception both last gen and in the buildup to next gen.

The reality is, Sony shows anything and views rack up, that's where the excitement and anticipation is, it has nothing to do with blind loyalty, it has everything to do with precedence and a history of delivering.....Everybody knows that Sony has the goods and they will deliver it all gen, when they choose to show certain details is really irrelevant and it's actually a perfect strategy to not show all your stuff all at once......A month is still a long time where Sony can show so much.....Why should they have shown everything way back in March or April or June, it makes little sense......Just look at how excited the whole internet will be tomorrow, because they are excited for the system, not blown up features that mean little to how many PS5's are sold in the final analysis.......BC is not going to sell PS5, it's just a bonus feature, which they have too, so even you have nothing to worry about there...

Backwards compatibility is used when it's done and done well. And even if it wasn't, preserving access to old games is worth doing it anyway.