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What can Square Enix do to make Final Fantasy sell FF7 level again? (Or sell more than a B tier Wrpg?)

sephiroth7x

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Difficult question to answer really.

Yes FFVII is the biggest selling of the series (think it sits around 10M without the remake). The thing is, all FF games (VII onward anyway) sit around the 7-10M sales mark and as long as they budget and plan for that level of sales then there isn't a problem.

Dragon Quest XI for example has shipped 6M copies and deemed a success.

Only the BIG Western RPG's can hit the same numbers of FF or surpass it. For example, Skyrim is in a world of its own out in front. But Fallout 4 (only a quick scan of sales numbers so unsure if reliable or in date) hit 14M and was one of the best selling games of the last gen.

Then you have to start going into all the differences between West and East RPG's. What is popular at the time in gaming as a whole. There is an argument that Skyrim began the start of the 'easy' RPG that took all the complication out of it for a streamlined experience to a point you question whether it is an RPG at all, or more akin to how Assassins Creed Origins is an RPG... (its not).

From a personal level - keep making the games they want. I hate this idea that they have to change to drive more sales. Creativity should be allowed to breathe and games made as a developer wants. Of course I want it to be successful, and there will always be an overarching theme or set of mechanics that make it inherently Final Fantasy, but just allow people to tell stories or make interesting mechanics without fear. We as consumers will get far better games for it. (Not always realistic, but hey, its an opinion - even if its not viable, doesn't mean it isn't what I want.)
 

Perfo

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Isn't probably FF14 the top FF seller by units and income?
If anything Square Enix should try to adopt a similar model to their offline counterparts, sort of GaaS if you like but done properly with expansions/seasons released steadily and some online elements to keep the community active and engaged through the years. I really hope Yoshida with his experience is trying something like that for 16.
 
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Vier

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ZywyPL

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I don't think it's even remotely possible - home consoles are now completely dominated by the western audience, which apparently is not that much interested in games made by Japanese devs, CDPR/Bethesda/Ubi/EA titles, those are the kind of RPGs most people want to play nowadays, not games stuck decades in the past.
 

KingT731

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I would say that people bought 8 because they loved 7 and didn't buy 9 because they didn't love 8.
It sold very well and people tend to leave out that the PS2 launched 4 months before FFIX released in Japan, 3 weeks after PS2 launch in NA and around 3 month after the launch in Europe as well. That's also not even considering that FFX launched a year later.
 
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There was a time when they could release a new game every year or two.
They did that during the FFXIII era so they still could.

Final Fantasy as a franchise shoots itself in the foot with incredibly long dev times and over promising and under-delivering.
They're on the right track by dropping that turn based garbo combat
Nah, I want my mainline Final Fantasy games to be turn-based. I like action combat JRPGs just fine, but Final Fantasy should aways be turn-based.
 
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Clear

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Its been nearly 25 years since FF7. Which if you think about it is actually over half the time span that home consoles and computers have been a thing.

Expecting no changes in fortune over that sort of period -especially in a field so volatile as games- seems unrealistic to me. In many ways its miraculous that its still being talked about all these years on.
 
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Yeah they are selling more games than ever. FFXV is almost beating FVII and it just came out a few years ago.

OP is running with a narrative that I don't think exists anymore. Square is doing pretty good these days. Their new games are selling tons. Maybe 15-20 years ago they needed help.

No you and many other people are pushing a narrative you're coming up with andplacing it into the thread.

The issue is if Square Enix can return to higher end sales of FF7 and match some of the higher selling B tier Wrpgs which slow as high or only a bit lower.

I never said anything about FF selling "bad". which many posts in this thread are implying randomly. AND people are bringing up FFXV even though I already said that it sold well.

There are so many posts just making up their own OP that doesn't actually exist. It's liberally just what does Square Enix need to do to increase FF sales consistently, and FFXV, which is the lone recent exception (as we don't have current numbers for FF7R to this point) took forever to get to where it is now despite greater marketing and access to gamers, which themselves are more plentiful.
 
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Correct. OP has no facts. But here they are:

What is with all these baseless posts claiming FF7R didn’t sell wel?
I never said FF7R sold poorly, a lot of people here are hallucinating their own version of the OP.

Only the BIG Western RPG's can hit the same numbers of FF or surpass it.

Lol?? BY Big I'm assuming you mean guys like Bethesda and Cd Projekt (which didn't start out BIG) were have you been since the 360/PS3 till now? Budget or decent Rpgs by niche to nobody companies sell 2-3 million it's Jrpgs that really only have a couple of companies do really well outside of Japan, and in most cases it's just Final Fantasy.
 
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JRPGs were the flagship genre for years
Outside of Japan this has never ever been true in the history of ever.

I mean you can just come out and say you like WRPGs rather than JRPGS

You're trying to convince yourself that a factual issue involving sales numbers is caused by subjective bias that doesn't even exist but you're assuming this because you don't want to actually face the reality of the situation.

Which is weird because there's nothing wrong with having a discussion about what Square needs to do to sell more, assuming your a JRPG fan because you immediately decided to jump toward making assumptions about me with no basis, you would think you'd want them to sell more..
 
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ultima786

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I never said FF7R sold poorly, a lot of people here are hallucinating their own version of the OP.



Lol?? BY Big I'm assuming you mean guys like Bethesda and Cd Projekt (which didn't start out BIG) were have you been since the 360/PS3 till now? Budget or decent Rpgs by niche to nobody companies sell 2-3 million it's Jrpgs that really only have a couple of companies do really well outside of Japan, and in most cases it's just Final Fantasy.
I think the tone of your post is giving people the impression that FF7R didn’t sell well. All the facts, insider opinions, and the way Square is operating appears to point otherwise.

also keep in mind that perhaps a few more million got access to it since it came to psplus. In a sense square is pre-selling part 2 by giving all these new users a chance to experience this world. Finally the fact that Sony is clearly trying to lock in all of FF for exclusivity deals (permanent or otherwise) is another clear indication that FF means a lot for Sony and is doing extremely well
 

Lethal01

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You're trying to convince yourself that a factual issue involving sales numbers is caused by subjective bias that doesn't even exist but you're assuming this because you don't want to actually face the reality of the situation.

The problem is there is no "factual issue" the games continue to sell great so it's weird to frame the questions that ask "why is Square fucking up" when they aren't. Factually they sold great and the latest ones have had unanimous praise and they absolutely dominated the media. What "C Tier" western rpg sells more?

But to assume the question is simply, "How do you think square could get more sales for final fantasy".
They could boost sales number by having a simultaneous launch on all platforms. But just because the game sells more doesn't mean it's more profitable so that probably won't happen. Maybe more crossovers with games like Fortnite to get attention on the franchise. A proper final fantasy anime series could help, not just a collection of shorts or a disjointed movie, 7 seems like the obvious candidate for that right now.

I think the best question you can ask is "why has the final fantasy series been so successful in the last few years and how can square keep it up"
 
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sephiroth7x

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Lol?? BY Big I'm assuming you mean guys like Bethesda and Cd Projekt (which didn't start out BIG) were have you been since the 360/PS3 till now? Budget or decent Rpgs by niche to nobody companies sell 2-3 million it's Jrpgs that really only have a couple of companies do really well outside of Japan, and in most cases it's just Final Fantasy.

Well yes - I am saying the big western RPG makers as in Bethesda and CD Projekt Red as despite them not starting out as a big company, are now seen as such, (much like Square themselves or any company?) as they have the bigger selling RPG's such as Elder Scrolls and Witcher. With Skyrim/Witcher 3 selling close to thirty million each, I would see them as the market leader.

The recent Dragon Quest sold 6 million copies which was a really high selling JRPG. Yakuza Like a Dragon hasn't hit a million in sales on the last check and western RPG's like Wasteland 3 didn't get more than a million sales. The fact that each mainline Final Fantasy hits at least 7-10 million (since VII at least) would dictate they are still the market leader of JRPG's which is what they want to be.

Would they want to sell more? Of course. Who wouldn't, but they ARE doing well and are well ahead of any 'B-Tier WRPG' as you call it.
 

Krizalidx11

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Maybe stop the manga character designer from directing the games and movies ? dude spoiled THE F outta everything in FF7R like every human on earth played the original and knows what happened and should cry every time a Cloud flash forward happens then blasts their eyes with battles including tons of flashes whenever you attack
 
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KiteGr

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It's the whole Japanese industry falling behind.
In the 90s, they lead the console gaming market for good reason. Then, having your game having a good story was a bonus and not a necessity. Also, since the games didn't have photorealistic graphics, and voice acting was a rare novelty, you didn't need good acting ether, and so they could get away with more outlandish stories without rising eyebrows or falling in the uncanny valley. Ad to the fact that western games thrived on ugliness and darkness, while Japanese games rarely tried to be edgy, and had a reputation of being sexier and more colorful, as they where inspired by the anime and manga.



Today the west has gone ahead. Since photorealism is possible, and a good story is no longer a novelty, the western games often end up being more appealing. Western games have more realistic movements, and better performances, and are generally much closer to real movies. At the same times, becoming photorealistic worked against the Japanese games. The acting of Asian actors often gets lost in translation and culture, and the more realistic people make the over-the-top stories and actions look much more ridiculous. At best, a Japanese studio would make a B-movie imitation, and at worst, they'll make something you just can't take seriously. Given the stricter laws they have against violence and Actual Nudity, it's not surprising they fall behind the art department.



Now lets come back to the Final Fantasy topic!
As of FF12, they've appeared to become convoluted for the sake of being convoluted, and the systems aren't nearly as fun.
FF12 had a scenario about politics and a battle system about bureaucracy. It would had been more interesting if the MC was someone who actually cared about these stuff, like Bash.
FF13 had a mess of a story that you needed an encyclopedia to understand how simple and stupid it actually was, not to mention the linearity and automation.
FF15 was clearly incomplete, mashing together leftover from a game that was left in development hell and left you trying to make sense of it all. To put insult to injury, all riskque aspects like the theme of death have been removed and the most important plotpoints where sold separately as DLC, Movies, Anime, mobile games ect...

In conclusion the biggest problem of the current FF games are:
  • Most being unfinished in someway.
  • An emphasis in oversimplification of the combat system removes all sense of thought.
  • The characters acting as characters and stereotypes and not as people.
  • The story often appears to be convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.
  • Trying to appeal to western "woke" sensibilities they remove many enticing aspects.
  • At the same time trying to keep the game's low rating, they remove all violence and blood from the combat and story.
In my opinion, in order to climb back to the old glory the series needs to:
  • Hire a good writer/director! Preferably a western one who knows how to make a thought provoking story that doesn't look Japanese cliché, becomes needlessly convoluted or get lost in translation.
  • Don't try to copy the games of the golden age. Those where good "on their time". They are supposed to have surpassed those.
  • Ignore the Woke culture! The world and human nature are harsh and cruel, and by ignoring those aspects, they remove value from the product.
  • Avoid stereotypes for characters. There are more types of heroes than "generic teenage anime protagonists with spiky hair".
  • Don't be afraid to touch sensitive subjects (beyond religion). Look at persona as an example.
  • Try to be a little edgy for once. Attacks that bleed sparks and magic dust instead of blood makes the game less serious.
  • Test the combat for "Fun" aspects. Adding spells and attacks wont make the combat fun. Focus on stuff like responsiveness, hit-feedback and satisfaction.
  • Stop with the Crystals already! Having a whole world hang on a muggufin by nature is bad writing!