Dr Kaneda
Member
Demon's souls
Astro Bot playroom
Destruction All Stars
Returnal
Ratchet and Clank
Godfall
For Xbox off the top of my head I only know Medium, I know there's a couple of others but I've forgotten
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What’s the deal with the lack of Next Gen Games?
- Thread starter MatrixReloaded101
- Start date
- Opinion
Astro Bot playroom
Destruction All Stars
Returnal
Ratchet and Clank
Godfall
For Xbox off the top of my head I only know Medium, I know there's a couple of others but I've forgotten
CamHostage
Member
Fuck, man, Dreamcast-era nostalgia still bakes my brain when I think that I was clocking generations from Atari to NES to SNES...
(*And by the way, the Dreamcast had a lot of the same complaints, of the games just being "past-gen games with next-gen paintjobs." Even early PS1 games, if you go back and read the reviews, you'll see some people say many games are just like playing whatever on SNES/Gen, only now it's 3D.)
But sure, generations used to be overly-exciting. There were LOTS of angles to experiment with in games. This was fresh territory, with power that was being built without a clear answer as to how to use it, by developers who learned coding from hacking and guidebooks rather than a college track on game production, open to a myriad of techniques to experiment with that might lead to a dead end but might work a few times at least to be sellable as interesting technology or gameplay. Now, all developers are all using the same engine practically. "To the metal" is gone, instead the APIs are the guide in. Every genre has now gone through a billion iterations and even post-modern reinterpretations. The biggest games are every-genre-in-one, because being good at one genre or even one idea is no longer good enough to sell at full price. And every new technology we see is less about defining a new generation, it's about refining the old one with AI to augment animation or upscale the visuals or add more unique trees...
The medium has matured. We've reached the promised land we all imagined when we first started seeing 3D games. I remember when Pilotwings 64 was first shown, and there was this running imagination of, "What if we could fly down there, and there was a whole forest full of real trees to fly through...?" Now, that's in every game, brought to life with a plugin that can make any tree and as many as you want wherever you want.
For all those using the "lazy developers" comment... what are the counter examples of hard-worked "next-gen" engines that set the example? You can buy a PC for $2000, $3000, several times what a PS5 or XSX costs, you still won't find "next-gen" games, whereas in the past, high-end PC always had some fringe cases that served as indicator of what a new box might bring some day. Now, it's all caught up.
Engines today are sophisticated and comprehensive. The tradeoff of choices in development They can do most everything you want them to do, all in the 30 or 60 or 120 frames that it's got to show in a second. I don't know that there is really some known new next-gen rendering technique that will unlock all the power of these consoles. They can also scale dramatically, adding in layers of detail or passes of process that can make a game strong on expensive hardware yet still a number of cutbacks away from running on even a cellphone. The future is bigger and brighter and sharper and more and more and more, but there will be fewer cases of seeing something you could never have imagined before.
...That's not to say the future is dark and has no more wow to it. Next gen will harness that power to reveal great leaps in subtlety, to pave over the gaps and flaws in performance, to replace hacked tricks with more natural and authentic methods. We will step into new engines / new versions of current engines that really take next-gen hardware (particularly the everpresence of those wicked-fast SSDs) into account. There will be games that will make us look back at the old gen and think, "wow, I thought THAT was amazing back then?" But there is unlikely to be a landmark day where we can say that past-gen ended and next-gen is now. Even UE5 is so far about scale rather than redefinition. Next-gen will be a continuous curve of enhancements and replacements and incrementation, with some clear steps ahead but maybe or maybe not those great leaps of the past.
kingpotato
Ask me about my Stream Deck
You really don't think demon's souls and astro's playroom show the promise of next gen with great graphics, solid 60 fps frame-rate and blazing load times? What about the activity cards that boot you right into a part of the game? That first time I got a notification a friend beat my score in astro and just by pressing a button in the notification I was in the game and reclaiming my spot on the leaderboard within seconds, my mind was blown.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Godfall isn't exclusive.
That's an unimpressive list of exclusives compared to last-gen.
VFXVeteran
Banned
60FPS, 4k, fast loading, etc.. is not indicative of 'next-gen'. That's just the performance metric of a game. It has nothing to do with what the game does or look like.
kingpotato
Ask me about my Stream Deck
You're not wrong, but seeing that 60 fps is the standard on the new gen consoles instead of the exception could potentially be considered a generational shift. Yes there are games from the previous gen that ran that way but most did not. For instance, there were 3d graphics on the super Nintendo but the predominant shift to 3d was considered next gen for the N64.
What generational improvement isn't considered a performance metric?
Is it only the number of triangles? The number of layers of textures? Texture resolution? I would think someone else could make similar arguments for any title. Look at the recent bloodborne PS1 de-make. It is basically contains the core of the gameplay for a small section of the game.
Is it something about the interface? The hardware specifically? What would you point at as the definitive title that shows next gen capabilities from the Xbox one vs Xbox 360?
The reality is it's mostly subjective, and I think being able to shift from game to game in seconds is next gen. The performance given the fidelity is next gen. The features of the os are next gen.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
Co - fucking - Vid !!!
Who else needs to spell it out for you. Developers have had to switch to working from home. Everything you do in the office now is flipped upside down when working from home.
Every company has been majorly affected by Covid and that obviously includes any accompanying projects.
It's baffling how some of you still struggle to come to grips with this concept of this pandemic turning the world upside down.
We've had entire departments change the way they operate since covid hit.
How many more fucking times must this be explained in threads like this.
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Yselacrey00
Banned
Shhh, you can't say that. For most people here Sony has had the best launch line up in history lmao.
Yselacrey00
Banned
So you are telling me all these developers are full of incompetent people?
I've been working from home since March 2020 and our numbers didn't go down, on the contrary, we met every goal we had pre COVID.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
^ Finally someone with common sense.
One of the half thread blames it all on covid and the other half claims, this is “normal” because this happened in other console launches in the past.
It’s like people are completely against holding Sony or MS accountable. The launch of the PS5 and Series X could have been better planned out or simply delayed until more native games were able, it’s really that simple.
These consoles and games were years in the making, so everything can’t be covid’s fault and both companies should have learned from the lackluster launches of the past.
The good news in all of this is I think the PS5/Series X will have longer life spans because of these significant delays, if cross gen games keep coming than people will be less interested in upgrading right away.
Elog
Member
Last generation for Playstation was basically the Order, Resogun, KZ:SF, TLoU Remaster, Infamous Second Son, Knack and Driveclub in the first year. Or am I missing something?
This generation is off to a very good start for the launch year. If Returnal is the sleeper hit it now seems to become and if Sony publishes one more solid AAA first party before Q4, this launch year is quite a lot better than last I think.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That assumes all staff are told to work from home. Not all office staff with a laptop work from home. At my company, some office workers still go in, even when it was peak covid in 2020. Not all office roles can be done at home.
Every company should have a pecking order of who goes in or not:
- Blue collar/warehouse: must go in
- IT guys who mess with servers in that locked door room: must go in
- Marketing people with tons of artwork, packaging and physical stuff they do: must go in
- Any finance/clerical job with tons of paperwork, photocopying: must go in
- Demand planning people: can do it from home
- Sales people: can do it from home
- Sales support functions (like analysts): can do it from home
Where do game makers fit in? I don't know. The assumption is they were all told to pack up their PC rigs, triple screen monitors, and all their fancy artwork and audio gear and do it from home.
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Team Andromeda
Member
People like said the same for consoles of the past. The PS2 had a long wait like nearly a year after its Japanese launch before we actually started to see those promised 77 million polygons being pushed and being amazed at ICO, SH2,The 360 wasn't much better and it took until GRAW and Fight Night 3 before we really started to see the games coming, much the same for the DC many moaned at the number of cross gen titles or remasters at the start of the One or PS4 life cycles. People act like Halo 3, Drakes, DMC, MGS 2 were day one titles.
You also need to factor in that there's no delay now in consoles launching around the world and Covid had a massive impact on the teams given so many studios are made up of 100 + people all in the same building and there's work that can only be done in the studio like mocap or even music. I fear with India being so badly affected and so many corps outsourcing their art to India that more games will be pushed back. Thankfully it looks like the UK and USA are getting on top of it and hopefully more and more staff are getting back to the studio
Freeman76
Member
Because its the only correct answer
Dr Bass
Member
For the first few months? I don’t think so.
tassletine
Member
Mainly a Socialist culture in video game companies. Slows everything to a crawl as everyone is checking each other to see if they agree or not. See Valve.
This can be a good thing but it needs to be moderated by strong leadership or financial considerations that forces the company to make decisions. Nintendo are good at this. They take their time and focus test the shit out of everything but the teams are small so they can work more quickly. As long as you keep the team under 20 people you be much more efficient, at least with software.
The western mentality (god knows why) is that many hands make light work. This ONLY applies when there is a solid plan. In an artistic endevour this is extremely risky and time consuming as artists are very difficult to manage.
The best example of this is Cyberpunk. A game filled to the brim with great art, but lacking any real framework or leadership at the company.
It all comes down to leadership and right now nobody wants to stick their necks out -- which is why CDPR have to rely on feedback from the public rather than their chicken shit management.
Look to indie titles for innovation. Mainstream for those ideas to arrive years later with better graphics.
This can be a good thing but it needs to be moderated by strong leadership or financial considerations that forces the company to make decisions. Nintendo are good at this. They take their time and focus test the shit out of everything but the teams are small so they can work more quickly. As long as you keep the team under 20 people you be much more efficient, at least with software.
The western mentality (god knows why) is that many hands make light work. This ONLY applies when there is a solid plan. In an artistic endevour this is extremely risky and time consuming as artists are very difficult to manage.
The best example of this is Cyberpunk. A game filled to the brim with great art, but lacking any real framework or leadership at the company.
It all comes down to leadership and right now nobody wants to stick their necks out -- which is why CDPR have to rely on feedback from the public rather than their chicken shit management.
Look to indie titles for innovation. Mainstream for those ideas to arrive years later with better graphics.
Type_Raver
Member
In addition to a lot of whats already been said, the line between generations and cross-overs has blurred moreso to cover all bases, not unlike the latest RE8.
It introduces some of the new tech features in current gen like ray tracing and supreme load times (2secs) but looking close enough to last gen appealing to that install base; maximising profits.
It introduces some of the new tech features in current gen like ray tracing and supreme load times (2secs) but looking close enough to last gen appealing to that install base; maximising profits.
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Dr Kaneda
Member
Yes it is, Godfall wasn't/isn't going tobe released on last gen systems. I'm talking about next gen exclusives, not console exclusives. You know, the actual topic on this thread....
And how is that list "unimpressive" compared to Killzone, Knack, Infamous, UFC and Golf LOOOOOOOOL
seek help you've been utterly buried.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Not visually.
Order, TLoU Remaster, KZ:SF, ISS, and DC were all excellent visual showcases. This gen, you have ONE (Demon Souls).
VFXVeteran
Banned
Godfall is on PC.
Dr Kaneda
Member
Yeah you've been officially buried. Take the L with at least a slither of dignity intact and move on.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I don't know what's so funny dude. And you don't have to be antagonistic. Godfall *IS* on PC therefore it's NOT a Sony exclusive.
Yeah you've been officially buried. Take the L with at least a slither of dignity intact and move on.
Dr Kaneda
Member
Low Moral Fibre
Member
Nothing has blown me away yet. We did get some nice looking games near the end of PS4 (e.g. Ghost of Tshusima and Days Gone) albeit at 30fps (or less in the case of my two examples) and playing those at 60fps on PS5 has impressed me more than any of the exclusives.
I've had both next gen consoles since release and I've spent 90% of my time gaming on PC as I've bought pretty much nothing for the next gen consoles.
XSX has Gamepass at least so I've tried some stuff I wouldn't normally even though the quality is hit and miss but I've had £80 PSN credit pretty much since release as there is nothing that interests me. I'm sure it was the same with PS4 to be fair but I always get FOMO and buy the new consoles.
I guess this release feels worse as so many people have been stuck at home compared to normal.
I've had both next gen consoles since release and I've spent 90% of my time gaming on PC as I've bought pretty much nothing for the next gen consoles.
XSX has Gamepass at least so I've tried some stuff I wouldn't normally even though the quality is hit and miss but I've had £80 PSN credit pretty much since release as there is nothing that interests me. I'm sure it was the same with PS4 to be fair but I always get FOMO and buy the new consoles.
I guess this release feels worse as so many people have been stuck at home compared to normal.
VFXVeteran
Banned
So your definition of next gen is any game that doesn't appear on last gen consoles regardless of whether they are multiplatform or not. OK, if you say so.. Godfall still doesn't look any better than a last gen game. I think this entire thread is not just about the number of games coming out just for next-gen consoles but how they look. And in that regard, the OP has a valid argument.
Dr Kaneda
Member
Huh? You're asking me not be antagonistic but you're being an unbelieve moron. I can't tell if you're genuinely and sincerely this stupid or you're being intentionally obtuse to save face.
Yes that's what next gen games means. I honestly can't believe I needed to confirm that.
So by your logic here, last generation the likes of:
Sekiro
Dark Souls 3
Nioh 1-2
Resident Evil 7, 2, 3
Red Dead Redemption 2
Doom Eternal
DMC 5
Horizon Zero Dawn
Days Gone
Death Stranding
And TONNES of other games that released last gen, ALL of these were not classed as "next gen/current gen" games that gen because they were multiplatform? You're brain dead. No other way to put, I've seen some top tier brain dead posts on this forum but this is up their.
Uh huh....And this coming for the guy that just said this
So that minimal visual difference in the TLoU Remastered counts, but NOTHING this gen so far counts expect Demon's Souls.....
VFXVeteran
Banned
/ignoreHuh? You're asking me not be antagonistic but you're being an unbelieve moron. I can't tell if you're genuinely and sincerely this stupid or you're being intentionally obtuse to save face.
Yes that's what next gen games means. I honestly can't believe I needed to confirm that.
So by your logic here, last generation the likes of:
Sekiro
Dark Souls 3
Nioh 1-2
Resident Evil 7, 2, 3
Red Dead Redemption 2
Doom Eternal
DMC 5
Horizon Zero Dawn
Days Gone
Death Stranding
And TONNES of other games that released last gen, ALL of these were not classed as "next gen/current gen" games that gen because they were multiplatform? You're brain dead. No other way to put, I've seen some top tier brain dead posts on this forum but this is up their.
Uh huh....And this coming for the guy that just said this
So that minimal visual difference in the TLoU Remastered counts, but NOTHING this gen so far counts expect Demon's Souls.....
Dr Kaneda
Member
Javthusiast
Banned
Why would you release expensive next gen exclusives and third party games during a start of a gen if the install bases are still small?
Plus covid fucked schedules up.
Plus covid fucked schedules up.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Very true. It's just that there really is a starvation of new releases so far. I get the OP's feelings.
VFXVeteran
Banned
"moron, stupid, dumb, can't read", etc.. do you really think people give a shit about what you think of me? You've turned a thread about a concern the OP presented to attacking me personally. Does it make you feel better? People here will still listen to what I've got to say while you are viewed as a troll.
RAIDEN1
Member
Well as they say nothing last forever so I am sure the drought will be over soon enough...even Ratchet is technically weeks away...
Dr Kaneda
Member
What happened to "/ignore"
In my 1st response to you I was civil because I thought you were asking a sincere question. But all your subsequent replies have merited those descriptors I've used in relation to you.
Yes you are a moron for saying that Killzone Shadow Fall, Knack, Infamous SS, UFC and Golf are better next gen offering than what has/will be released in the corresponding period this gen.
Yes you are stupid for saying that multiplatform games aren't considering next gen games, as I highlighted in the examples I used to obliterate you rational.
Yes you are dumb for saying that TLoU remastered was an "excellent visuals showcases" that merit it's consideration as a "next gen" game, but NOTHING this gen except Demon's Souls merits that inclusion.
And yes you can't read since twice I clearly posted that I was talking about next gen exclusives, not console exclusives, and yet twice you replied that "it's not exclusive to PS".
No, you've turned a fairly open and shut case of the start of a new generation ALWAYS being like this into you making increasingly more retarded posts in a failing attempt to force a narrative that just isn't their but you so desperately want to be.
This has got to be an act, right?
Even I've got too much respect for you to believe you lack this much social awareness to say and genuinely believe something like this. I see you routinely get BTFO by users on here on a daily basis for the stupid stuff you post, you're a joke.
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22•22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
It sure does. I'm very excited for next gen but this time around I can wait. Need a new TV first anyways. Ideally I'd like to wait for a revised PS5/Series X that are stable and silent. Around that time there would be more games out. Slim pickings nowadays. Gaming for me transcends generations so having a virtual endless backlog I'm in no rush.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Last time I communicate with you:
That's not being a moron. All of my comparisons were with respect to the timeframe of the consoles. KZ:SF, Infamous, DriveClub and The Order were exceptional showcases for that era in the beginning. I stand by what I said. This generation you have ONE game that's a good visual showcase so far IMO. Everyone on here talks about Spiderman and DS. I don't even consider MM to be a showcase for next-gen. RT reflections just isn't enough visually. That's MY opinion and it can't be debated.
Anyone can interpret what the OP's point was. My train of thought was with respect to the PS/Xbox exclusives. NOT MP games. Also, check your grammer in that quote. It is wrong Dr. smarty pants.
I glazed over that list that wasn't even made by me. It was made by someone else. Every other game in that dude's list was an original game and you decided to nit-pick TLoU remastered to try and find holes in my responses. That's indicative of someone desperate to feel superior.
That's me ignoring most of your sentence instead of reading every single word. My mind moves very quickly. If someone is posting fluff, I tend to ignore parts of a sentence. So, sorry about that. You didn't grab my attention even 50%.
If it was ALWAYS like this, people wouldn't post these kinds of threads. The OP posted it for feedback - not a trolling session with me.
You see what you want to see. Just because there are trolls policing my comments to try and make me look bad doesn't mean the majority of people don't appreciate my input and contribution to these threads. How many people paid for your gold membership because they appreciated your contribution to this forum?This has got to be an act, right?
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Dr Kaneda
Member
Sure, just like that last time you supposedly put me on ignore then came crawling back.
1) The Order released in February 2015, OVER A YEAR after the PS4 launched. It's not even apart of the timeframe we're comparing for both generations here.
2) The same with DriveClub which released in October. If we include that time frame then we include two more games for PS5 in Ghost Wire and Death Loop
3) You called also called TLoU Remaster an "excellent showcase" of next gen for PS4 (which you're conveniently failing to list here) to yet you're dismissing all the PS5 games that have been released. It shows your standard are illogical and inconsistent and ONLY in furtherance of being critical of this gen.
But TLoU remastered is yeah
So what you freak? "Opinions" can be wrong, they can be debated, they can refuted and they can be ridiculed. Which is exactly what's happening here and what happens in 99% of the discussion on this forum. You know you're on to a loser when you're literally unable to justify and your opinion and simply fall back on "That's MY opinion" loool
So if RE8 released only on PS5 and XB Series X/S it would still not be a next gen game because it's multiplatform? Honestly this is just a spastic hill to die on, just move on there's no way to spin this as a W for you.
Lmao, highlighting typos is truly the last refuge of a scoundrel who's got no substantive points to make.
But You literally typed out TLoU remastered, it was in the post YOU made, you didn't just simply quote it
But keep desperately pivoting, anything to admit you aren't wrong."You refuted my point therefor it's nitpicking"
It's called having a logically consistent standard. If you deem the TLOU remastered to be "an excellent visual showcase" of last gen when compared to PS3 then that means TO BE LOGICALLY CONSISTENT you need you extend that SAME STANDARD to this gen. But then you've demonstrated numerous times in this discussion that you're incapable of making logical or rationally consistent points.
This is a conversation spanning 2 days THAT YOU INSTIGATED, now with 6 back and forth replies by you in which you said previously said you were going to "ignore" me but STILL replied. But yeah I haven't gripped your attention
.... Keep coping you freak
This is also the 3rd post since I brought it up and yet you didn't think to back down and say you were wrong for brining up TLoU remastered in those other two replies? You goalpost shifting after realising you've got nowhere to hide.
OP has LITERALLY conceded after all the evidence/replies presented against him that this also happened in past generations. He's now shifted his narrative to "OK so it happened it past gens as well but it shouldn't keep happening"
So even OP, who your desperately trying to appeal to authority through, doesn't agree with you. Lol
What have you contributed? You've not been able to justify a single point you've made, you've failed to rebut a single post I've made annihilating you and you've made numerous illogical embarrassing statements, all of which you fallen back on with "Its MY opinion"
Honestly I've come to the conclusion that you are genuinely an invalid and that you are sincerely this stupid. But you keep getting jollies off that paid for membership, whatever let's you sleep at night
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Roufianos
Member
Are these typos or are you guys seriously implying that next-gen sales are 1m?
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Its been pass 1m already
https://www.androidcentral.com/4-5-million-ps5-consoles-sold
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...d-xbox-series-x-s-sales-in-line-with-not-ahea
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Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Sony can’t afford to alienate the PS4 base so only ps5 only games are niche titles. Same thing for Xbox but since everything is on Gamepass doesn’t really matter.
I‘m happy with just upgraded stuff now, looking forward to this holiday for the bigger games to hit Horzion, god of war 2 and halo.
I‘m happy with just upgraded stuff now, looking forward to this holiday for the bigger games to hit Horzion, god of war 2 and halo.
SebastianM
Member
remember ps4 in 2014?