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Watch Dogs: Legion confirmed 4K/30 with RT on XsX/PS5

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
30fps already? I would have hoped for at least 1 year of 60fps games...
But hey it´s Ubisoft, maybe other devs will aim for 60fps.
 

GustavoLT

Member
NCUtIIl.jpg
 

cragarmi

Member
This is a cross-gen game, which was never intended to target 60 fps, although with a bit of extra work I think they could have got a 1440p no raytracing mode for the next gen machines, discounting the XSS of course.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
I actually expected lower resolutions.


Anyone who even remotely thought baseline 60 FPS was going to be a thing in any gen isn’t playing with a full deck. Add to that raytracing and it’s even more ridiculous.
 
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Magik85

Member
Id rather have non RT mode with 60fps or 30fps with better overall details.
Most of game use RT only for reflections which doesnt make much difference to me.
Good use of SSR is enough for me. For example Driveclub was very good with SSR.
Your car reflected other cars and even had some self-reflections.
Sure RT reflections are more accurate, but overal visual difference is too small to sacrafice framerate or other details.
IMO its waste of resources.
 

CrysisFreak

Banned
I bet you a hundred bucks they could've included a 1440p60 mode with or without RT and they should've. Fucking Ubisoft I swear jeez.
 

regawdless

Banned
Surprised by some of the negative reactions. I expected and am still expecting most open world games to be 30fps.
I'll be happy to be wrong. But assuming that open world games would be 60fps on these consoles seems a bit naive to me.
 

Hunnybun

Member
high resolutions are what impacts Raytracing performance the most. the higher the resolution the more ray the game needs to shoot out per frame.

some developers opt to reduce the resolution of reflections either as an option or as a standard.
in Battlefield 5 for example the RT reflections run at ¼ resolution to improve performance.

Spider-Man on PS5 does the same thing.

in order to get high framerates on the new consoles when using raytracing developers most likely will have to run the games at 1440p or 1080p with ¼ resolution reflections

But surely if it's resolution that affects RT performance the most, you'd expect a proportionally lower reduction in resolution to offset an increase in frame rate?

So if you doubled frame rate to 60fps you shouldn't have to halve resolution to compensate, right? So why with DMC are we seeing a 75% reduction in resolution just to double frame rate?
 

Tschumi

Member
4k30? 30?!?!?!? Unacceptable! 4k60 is our birthright. Watch dogs let the team down. Apricot hamburger bumblebee.
 

01011001

Banned
But surely if it's resolution that affects RT performance the most, you'd expect a proportionally lower reduction in resolution to offset an increase in frame rate?

So if you doubled frame rate to 60fps you shouldn't have to halve resolution to compensate, right? So why with DMC are we seeing a 75% reduction in resolution just to double frame rate?

I bet the game doesn't lock to 30FPS in 4K RT mode and so they made sure that the 60fps mode is as tightly locked as possible.
another possibility is that they didn't want to reduce the resolution of the RT reflections too much from the resolution of the rasterized elements of the game.
so maybe the game runs quarter resolution reflections in its 4K mode (so the RT reflections would be 1080p) and they want to stay at that resolution for reflections in their 1080p60 mode or at least very close to that, so that the reflections don't look too pixelated/blurry in either mode.

so in reality the amount of rays shot out per frame wouldn't change at all/much between the modes but they would free up a lot of resources by reducing the resolution of the rasterized parts.

but that's just speculation.
 
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FlyyGOD

Member
Some of you guys are ridiculous. You're expecting a cross gen launch game to run 60 fps right out the gate. Can we let these developers get some programming experience on these new consoles before we expect the world from them?
 

Hunnybun

Member
I bet the game doesn't lock to 30FPS in 4K RT mode and so they made sure that the 60fps mode is as tightly locked as possible.
another possibility is that they didn't want to reduce the resolution of the RT reflections too much from the resolution of the rasterized elements of the game.
so maybe the game runs quarter resolution reflections in its 4K mode (so the RT reflections would be 1080p) and they want to stay at that resolution for reflections in their 1080p60 mode or at least very close to that, so that the reflections don't look too pixelated/blurry in either mode.

so in reality the amount of rays shot out per frame wouldn't change at all/much between the modes but they would free up a lot of resources by reducing the resolution of the rasterized parts.

but that's just speculation.

Oh ok that makes more sense to me, thanks. So basically the RT we're seeing in games so far is already so compromised at 30fps (quarter resolution) that they're hardly worth retaining at a lower resolution (because to get the standard benefit of halving resolution you'd also have to halve the RT resolution to 540p).

So in theory I was right - you should be able to do Watch Dogs at 1440p60 with RT - but the RT would then be so crappy it's not worth it.

Which is why we're seeing stuff like Spider-Man retain 4k to a large extent in 60fps mode, but jettison the RT.

Can't help but think that RT at this level just isn't worth the resources.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Some of you guys are ridiculous. You're expecting a cross gen launch game to run 60 fps right out the gate. Can we let these developers get some programming experience on these new consoles before we expect the world from them?

Consoles are just pc’s now aren’t they?
 

01011001

Banned
Oh ok that makes more sense to me, thanks. So basically the RT we're seeing in games so far is already so compromised at 30fps (quarter resolution) that they're hardly worth retaining at a lower resolution (because to get the standard benefit of halving resolution you'd also have to halve the RT resolution to 540p).

So in theory I was right - you should be able to do Watch Dogs at 1440p60 with RT - but the RT would then be so crappy it's not worth it.

Which is why we're seeing stuff like Spider-Man retain 4k to a large extent in 60fps mode, but jettison the RT.

Can't help but think that RT at this level just isn't worth the resources.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the RT reflections would look bad at quater resolution even at 1440p or 1080p, if they are properly filtered and maybe even implement some sort of checkerboarding, they could still look good at relatively low resolutions.

case in point, GranTurismo 7 on PS5. the demo they showed ran RT reflections at BELOW 1080p, so below quarter resolution of the 4K rasterized image. but they seemingly implemented a checkerboarding solution (that's what it looks like in early analysis) to up the perceived resolution of the reflections so they still look close to 1080p.
so in reality, these are 1/8 resolution RT reflections that look close to 1/4 resolution thanks to temporal upscaling.

I bet games will more and more optimize raytraced effects like this, especially reflections. proper filtering and temporal upscaling solutions will really help here.

and in some instances you don't even need that. if you look at a reflection on a flowing river, you rarely see a sharp image in real life either. so you also don't need a sharp reflection in the game. so reducing rays shot out for these specific elements also will help a lot.

another good solution would be to mix Screen Space Reflections with RT reflections, and to some extend that already happens (in Battlefield 5 some elements like bullet holes in walls only reflect in screenspace but not in the RT reflections) but this can be pushed and refined even more in the future.
maybe fusing Screen Space Reflection with Ray Traced Reflections seamlessly as you pan around the camera... everything on screen will be reflected using Screen Space, and everything off screen using Ray Tracing.

so there are ways in the future to optimize this and to make reflections look sharp even at a lower ray count.
 
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GamesAreFun

Banned
Some of you guys are ridiculous. You're expecting a cross gen launch game to run 60 fps right out the gate. Can we let these developers get some programming experience on these new consoles before we expect the world from them?

It'll run at 60fps on PC (one assumes). Shame they literally can't just drop the resolution to 1080p, disable ray-tracing, and offer it as a "performance" mode on console for those who want it.

Personally I dislike ray-tracing already. We have these wonderfully powerful new consoles, and because there's a new flavour-of-the-week effect to provide marginally more realistic lighting, performance has been tanked.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
cross posting from the next gen thread.

I think this is proof that the difference between the two consoles is simply not significant enough for any kind of framerate boost or even resolution boost. 18% in teraflops would likely buy you 5 fps. so if the ps5 version is 30 fps, xsx would be 35 fps. but since both are likely over 30 fps, it doesnt really matter since they will be locked to 30 fps anyway.

so all this warring. 12 vs 10 tflops. 12 vs 8 tflops or 9 tflops was for nothing. i have yet to see a single game that has any kind of advantages on the xbox series x. everyone seems to be going for literally identical framerates and resolutions. we arent even getting an 18% difference in resolution like i believed we would get because the ps5 seems to be capable enough to do native 4k at 30 fps with ray tracing. i expected 1800p vs native 4k which is a 25% boost in resolution, but we are getting literally identical versions of games.

we will see if the ps5 versions have framedrops or not, but right now things are not looking good for the xsx. they put so much effort into marketing having a most powerful console ever and it seems to have zero upgrades over the ps5. for now anyway. maybe things will change next holiday season when next gen battlefield, cod and ass creed arrive. But i think that will be too late. DF comparisons at the start of the gen have far more of an impact than a year or two down the line when everyone who gives a shit about this stuff has already made their purchases.
 
Soon console players will learn that "ray tracing on" doesn't necessarily mean "full ray tracing". The console wars comparison threads will be fun I think. In theory, the Series X could be rocking additional rt effects. We will see.

Lol @ anyone thinking this gen would be different from previous generations and that devs would prioritize frame rate over eye candy. That's on you for being a fool.

The average person buying a console shouldn't care that much and will be very happy with 30 fps ray tracing and 4k.

Also lol @ anyone shitting on Ubisoft for this. You are in for quite a ride if you aren't happy about this.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
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Is that UbiSoft’s new logo?
 
Its interesting that Valhalla runs at 4k/60, yet WatchDogs 4k/30 with RT puddles. RT halving that gpu in half, just for puddles that you wont even notice when playing.
Sorry but give me 60fps and no RT. In fact thats what i will be doing on PC.
Have you seen Valhalla though? Watched Yongyeas video. It looks like ass. Not sure it's right to set your expectations on it.
 

regawdless

Banned
RT is this gen’s excuse for not doing 60fps.

It's always about compute budget and priorities. And priorities are as much bells and whistles as possible in most cases. Next gen won't be any different.
Unless 60fps becomes a major selling point. Which is doubtful on products that are aimed at the mass market with consumers that mostly just don't care.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Soon console players will learn that "ray tracing on" doesn't necessarily mean "full ray tracing". The console wars comparison threads will be fun I think. In theory, the Series X could be rocking additional rt effects. We will see.

Lol @ anyone thinking this gen would be different from previous generations and that devs would prioritize frame rate over eye candy. That's on you for being a fool.

The average person buying a console shouldn't care that much and will be very happy with 30 fps ray tracing and 4k.

Also lol @ anyone shitting on Ubisoft for this. You are in for quite a ride if you aren't happy about this.

Er, a hell of a lot of next gen games have already been confirmed to be 60fps or at least have a 60fps mode. I think of the PS5 launch games they pretty much all do. Watch Dogs has been the exception so far.

So I'm not sure what you're crowing about. As long as devs continue to target 4k there's no reason we shouldn't get lots of performance modes, which is a huge step forward from previous generations.
 

CuNi

Member
Er, a hell of a lot of next gen games have already been confirmed to be 60fps or at least have a 60fps mode. I think of the PS5 launch games they pretty much all do. Watch Dogs has been the exception so far.

So I'm not sure what you're crowing about. As long as devs continue to target 4k there's no reason we shouldn't get lots of performance modes, which is a huge step forward from previous generations.

Did you even look at the pic on the last post of the first page? Because you're 1:1 like one of the statements that are quoted there and answered LOL.
60FPS on Cross-Gen games and a few other games, next-gen will be mostly 30fps eye candy games.
 

01011001

Banned
Did you even look at the pic on the last post of the first page? Because you're 1:1 like one of the statements that are quoted there and answered LOL.
60FPS on Cross-Gen games and a few other games, next-gen will be mostly 30fps eye candy games.

well that's still an improvement :LOL: this gen even cross gen games almost always ran at 30fps lol

Assassin's Creed 4, 30fps on last gen and current gen. (same with Far Cry 4 and basically everything... the only notable exception to this was Battlefield 4 which jumped to 60fps)
Assassin's Creed Valhalla, 30fps on current gen and 60fps on next gen...

same with almost every cross gen game... Watch Dogs is the only notable exception this time, and I bet that's down to the fact that it was supposed to launch a year ago, and the engine isn't properly optimized for next gen yet. also the Watch Dogs engine was notoriously badly optimized for 60fps on PC too. when it came out, Watch Dogs 2 was almost impossible to run at 60fps on reasonably high settings.

SO HURRAY! lol
only one exception, which's predecessors were notorious for bad performance above 30fps anyways.
 
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Hunnybun

Member
Did you even look at the pic on the last post of the first page? Because you're 1:1 like one of the statements that are quoted there and answered LOL.
60FPS on Cross-Gen games and a few other games, next-gen will be mostly 30fps eye candy games.

It's his opinion, for a start. Shinobi isn't the fucking oracle, you know.

But he did actually say that he thinks 60fps will be a lot more common, in any case.

And what do you mean, 'a few other games'. There are only a few other games IN TOTAL. This is the start of a generation and the sample size is tiny, but so far the dedicated next gen games I can think of almost all have at least a performance mode.

This is something that just wasn't the case in the last couple of generations. It really comes down to whether developers continue to target native 4k (especially if also with RT), or maybe even 1800p. At those resolutions you can scale down easily enough and still have an attractive game at twice the fps.

If otoh they go for something like 1440p30 then yes it's going to be harder to have performance modes without killing the IQ.
 

whyman

Member
So if I understood everything correct I am getting Watch Dogs (1) with the complete edition. Any news on what that runs at?
 
I don't buy UBI crap but I didn't buy 2 new consoles and a 120hz LG oled to play games at 30fps.

screw RT
 
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I'll take better raytracing, at least double the framerate, better visuals, @3440x1440 for a cheaper price, thank you. I'd imagine there's a 60fps mode for consoles?
 
30fps on console = no sale.

Especially with Assassin’s Creed of all things finally going 60fps, this Is super disappointing.
 
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30fps on console = no sale.

Especially with Assassin’s Creed of all things finally going 60fps, this Is super disappointing.


you say 30 fps on console no sale as if consoles arent the de facto place for shitty performance for the last 3 decades.

We'll need to see what the 4k/60 nonsense is for AC on consoles. If its some reconstructive technique and medium details thats some bullshit
 
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