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[Soodanim]

I have a question since i'm new to the whole vrr\gsync thing.

When i play on pc, is it better to lock the framerate at 60 or i can just leave the framerate uncapped (my lg c1 can do 120) because g-sync take care of the wild flactuations?! Like i know that my 2070super is not a 120 frame gpu if i want to play at 1440p high details with heavy games, but sometimes i have some power to spare and i can do more than 60, but not by that much.

Is it better to have a locked framerate at 60 or having maybe higher framerates but with wild flactuations because gsync is there to help?

It is not a problem when i can play at 4k because i don't have an hdmi 2.1 capable gpu so i can only do 4k60, but since i play mostly at 1440p i have the 120 frame option available but i always lock to 60 because i don't trust my gpu to maintain high framerates, but maybe it would feel better leaving the framerate uncapped and enjoy the moments when the gpu can actually run at highest framerates?!

I don’t know if it got answered already, but the short answer is that outside of rare exceptions G-Sync is always better than VSync or any older method.

The way I understood it is that the traditional way is for displays to set the rules of when/how many frames get displayed, which is a problem when you’re trying to run 45fps at 60hz, because it’s uneven division and you get judder/tearing/whatever.
G-Sync flips it and lets the display adapt to whatever the GPU puts out, which means the display keeps up with variations perfectly (within the supported range).

G-Sync was first, but Freesync and VRR largely do the same thing. You get different tiers of G/Free now, but the base tech is the same.

There’s other little bits to get into like when you hit your refresh rate limit VSync kicks back in unless you disable it, which is why you’ll often see people set the limit a few frames below the max at a GPU level. I limit to 141 on my 144hz monitors, for example. But that’s a minor point and the only significance there is VSync having more input lag than G-Sync.

 

[DenchDeckard]

What do you mean HDMI 2.1 was rushed out? It’s actually functioned pretty well in my C9 which is the first consumer product that supported it.

I mean hdmi 2.1 was not completely outlined before it released to a standard, hence why we are seeing some strange teething issues. Luckily LG used the full fat 48gbps ports on your c9 but cheaped out a little on the CX and C1 with the 40gbps. it should be fine but we will see.

The Xbox is 40gbps so we will be fine with the ps5 offering only 32gbps, so the consoles can’t exceed the current OLEDS.

 

[DenchDeckard]

'Bumping up the settings'. What kind of settings? Sorry, new to this.

Apologies, it’s the setting shown in the below video. Fine tune dark areas or whatever it’s called.

 

[SLB1904]

I'm not expert so I did some research about vrr. The results I found is vrr makes your display match the framerate output of the console to avoid screen tearing.

But reading this thread it seems like some people think vrr increase framerate, is that right?

 

[ethomaz]

I'm not expert so I did some research about vrr. The results I found is vrr makes your display match the framerate output of the console to avoid screen tearing.

But reading this thread it seems like some people think vrr increase framerate, is that right?

With VRR the display changes the refresh rate in real time to match the framerate output... that is the correct.
You are still having the issues inherent of variable framerate.

 

[cormack12]

Am I right in thinking that it only works if you have your display set to 120Hz though? Or will it work on unlocked games with 40-50fps on a 60Hz screen as well?

 

[chaseroni]

I don't see any reason for 1440p..
Many 1440p monitors accept 4k and downscale to 1440p. I had monitors like that years ago.
1440p is a passing resolution anyway.

For me my Samsung only supports 120FPS at 1080p and 1440p
So For instance, games with 120FPS mode only get shown at 1080P at the moment because 1440 isn't supported.
It would be a big win for me and my setup.

 

[ethomaz]

Not related.

 

[GymWolf]

Am I right in thinking that it only works if you have your display set to 120Hz though? Or will it work on unlocked games with 40-50fps on a 60Hz screen as well?

Depends on the tv, the C1 also work on a range of 20-40 frame, so basically it's useful even for 30 unstable framerates.

Not sure how many vrr\g-sync monitor operate with such low framerates.

Not sure if this is what you were asking.

 

[cormack12]

Depends on the tv, the C1 also work on a range of 20-40 frame, so basically it's useful even for 30 unstable framerates.

Not sure how many vrr\g-sync monitor operate with such low framerates.

Not sure if this is what you were asking.

Display you mean your TV or the VR display? Because it is independent of the TV display.
And it will only works on VR games that support it... so it is made to render and delivery the images for your VR display.

I have the X90H which got the VRR update the other week - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/4k-1...ns-for-sony-x900h-xh90.1571507/post-265167915
I can enable VRR on my XSX, but obviously can't on the PS5. And when using VRR then the auto local dimming gets disabled on the Tv which I didn't like. I'm not going to be gaming at 120Hz but was hoping to use VRR for any games running at 4k/60Hz that had issues keeping a solid 60 and juddered etc. There's not that many I can try at the moment but as the generation goes on, I'm guessing we might see more perf modes that this will help with?

 

[ethomaz]

I have the X90H which got the VRR update the other week - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/4k-1...ns-for-sony-x900h-xh90.1571507/post-265167915
I can enable VRR on my XSX, but obviously can't on the PS5. And when using VRR then the auto local dimming gets disabled on the Tv which I didn't like. I'm not going to be gaming at 120Hz but was hoping to use VRR for any games running at 4k/60Hz that had issues keeping a solid 60 and juddered etc. There's not that many I can try at the moment but as the generation goes on, I'm guessing we might see more perf modes that this will help with?

Sorry my mistake... I thought it was about PSVR2.
I will delete my post.

 

[GymWolf]

I have the X90H which got the VRR update the other week - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/4k-1...ns-for-sony-x900h-xh90.1571507/post-265167915
I can enable VRR on my XSX, but obviously can't on the PS5. And when using VRR then the auto local dimming gets disabled on the Tv which I didn't like. I'm not going to be gaming at 120Hz but was hoping to use VRR for any games running at 4k/60Hz that had issues keeping a solid 60 and juddered etc. There's not that many I can try at the moment but as the generation goes on, I'm guessing we might see more perf modes that this will help with?

Yeah i think that tv producers are gonna adapt their vrr to work on lower framerates because in the future, 120 frames are gonna be super rare on console, probably the same for stable 60 frames mode.

 

[ethomaz]

What do you mean HDMI 2.1 was rushed out? It’s actually functioned pretty well in my C9 which is the first consumer product that supported it.

It is actually being changed yet.
For example all the new features are optional now… not more standard so you can have a HDMI 2.0b port and call it HDMI 2.1.

Seems like the implementation of some features were forced to not be mandatory by the manufacturers having difficult to put in their TVs.

 

[adamsapple]

The PS5 has NOT received an update for for ALLM yet.

VRR will arrive along side it and that update comes out this month according to Sony perfect for playstation page

What's ALLM for the uninformed please ?

 

[twilo99]

What's ALLM for the uninformed please ?

Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM)

ALLM lets a game console, PC or other device send a signal to the display which will cause it to automatically switch to a low-latency, low-lag mode for gaming. HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

 

[ethomaz]

What's ALLM for the uninformed please ?

It a signal that tells the TV you are running a game so it can change to low latency mode (disable post processing for that)… it basically shift to game mode.

In LG TVs it works well… in Samsung TVs you have a hit image quality.

 

[DeepEnigma]

yes it's called being an enthusiast... also it's just objectively better to have it

The same 'enthusiasts' that lift up the lowest common denominators in the war as well.

Says the other half of the Series S troll duo

I rest my case.

 

[DeepEnigma]

VRR we know is coming.

1440p system output? Doubt it.

I could see them adding to the UI, like a few different colored versions of the current UI theme to pick from. PS4 default theme has a few color variants to pick from.

I mean, ND, BP and Insomniac are not shying away from 1440p internal resolutions. So it may not be a stretch. Is it a very low priority based on overall usage out there in the console realm, absolutely, but I would not be surprised since their own first party is using these resolutions, so far.

The thing I am more pissed about is that HDMI 2.1 is only enabled on 2 of the 4 HDMI ports on their TV with one of those ports being used for eARC. WHich in many instances means that buyers will have access to only 1 HDMI 2.1 port. LG makes all their ports 2.1. Very frustrating.

Agreed with this. Especially when eARC hasn't even been proven to perform better than ARC at this time in real world scenarios. Especially with all the audio syncing and handshake issues that still plague it.

 

[kyliethicc]

I mean, ND, BP and Insomniac are not shying away from 1440p internal resolutions. So it may not be a stretch. Is it a very low priority based on overall usage out there in the console realm, absolutely, but I would not be surprised since their own first party is using these resolutions, so far.

Agreed with this. Especially when eARC hasn't even been proven to perform better than ARC at this time in real world scenarios. Especially with all the audio syncing and handshake issues that still plague it.

Yeah but the idea is it always gets upscaled system level to 2160p output. Idk seems unlikely.

PS4 games can even change their internal resolutions/performance modes depending on the system output setting.

So I'm not sure how'd they implement that on PS5. Who knows tho.

And Sony TVs don't support 1440p either, which could be a factor.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Dude your avatar and name are related to a guy who can't lock a framerate to save his life, the irony is throught the roof here...

What does a third party dev have to do with this?

Also Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro have excellent performance.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Yeah solid fps>VRR
These are consoles not un-optimized PC's.

We don't need to give these devs a reason to get lazy with programming and use VRR as a crutch.

And then if the game run badly, they'll just say... welp, you should've bought a VRR TV. Oh well.

 

[GymWolf]

What does a third party dev have to do with this?

Also Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro have excellent performance.

You don't play third party games on your console? Because from games can surely get some help from vrr.

And i have sincere doubts that on base console like xone or ps4 their game ever had locked framerate, i remember a performance mode on pro with more flactuations than a politycal party in italy....

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah but the idea is it always gets upscaled system level to 2160p output. Idk seems unlikely.

PS4 games can even change their internal resolutions/performance modes depending on the system output setting.

So I'm not sure how'd they implement that on PS5. Who knows tho.

And Sony TVs don't support 1440p either, which could be a factor.

That's true. I know you can force 1440p/60 on them, but not 1440p/120 since it isn't supported natively.

Something the firmware can always be updated with, but again, such a low priority since they just upscale it to 4K internally.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You don't play third party games on your console? Because from games can surely get some help from vrr.

And i have sincere doubts that on base console like xone or ps4 their game ever had locked framerate, i remember a performance mode on pro with more flactuations than a politycal party in italy....

Who said this?

I said and you quoted...

"We rather frame rates don't drop"

Let me further emphasize.
It was in regards to SONY or any of these companies who usually give solid performance being a better option than relying on VRR.
In fact on console a solid fps>VRR.


What does FromSoftware have to do with that statement?
Did From piss in your drink or something?

 

[Edgelord79]

I don't see any reason for 1440p..
Many 1440p monitors accept 4k and downscale to 1440p. I had monitors like that years ago.
1440p is a passing resolution anyway.

 

[GymWolf]

Who said this?

I said and you quoted...

"We rather frame rates don't drop"

Let me further emphasize.
It was in regards to SONY or any of these companies who usually give solid performance being a better option than relying on VRR.
In fact on console a solid fps>VRR.


What does FromSoftware have to do with that statement?
Did From piss in your drink or something?

It was a zinger at your desire to have locked framerate everywhere and people calling devs who can't achieve that lazy, i was just making you notice that a well respected studio that we all love are lazy aswell since they always had problem with framerates in their games.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, i quoted you but it was more of a broad message.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It was a zinger at your desire to have locked framerate everywhere and people calling devs who can't achieve that lazy, i was just making you notice that a well respected studio that we all love are lazy aswell since they always had problem with framerates in their games.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, i quoted you but it was more of a broad message.

Yes I consider games with terrible optimizations.... lazy on the devs part.

Unfortunately the best games aren't always optimized.

 

[ZywyPL]

"We rather frame rates don't drop"

Duh, that's the whole point, with VRR there is no such thing as framedrops. Because what is a frame drop, what does it mean? It's when the framerate is below the display's refresh rate, and with VRR it never happens because the displays is in perfect sync with the framerate.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Duh, that's the whole point, with VRR there is no such thing as framedrops. Because what is a frame drop, what does it mean? It's when the framerate is below the display's refresh rate, and with VRR it never happens because the displays is in perfect sync with the framerate.

Yeah, but what he's saying is he doesn't want devs to lean on VRR as an excuse for sloppy code.

Sort of how after the PS4 Pro came out, base PS4 games took a back seat and had frame rate issues, tearing, pop-in and all that, while the Pro machines were needed to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

 

[HoofHearted]

So... March is the new December?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

"Software update will be available by the end of January"

--------------------------------------------^text^--------------------------------------------

 

[kyliethicc]

"Software update will be available by the end of January"

--------------------------------------------^text^--------------------------------------------

Those updates are for Auto Genre Picture Mode and Auto HDR Tone Mapping.

Not VRR.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Those updates are for Auto Genre Picture Mode and Auto HDR Tone Mapping.

Not VRR.

He literally starts the segment saying they will support VRR? Why release an update for PS5 that supports those features and not VRR, makes no sense?

 

[ManaByte]

Why release an update for PS5 that supports those features and not VRR, makes no sense?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

VRR doesn't work within 32GB/s?

 

[ManaByte]

He literally starts the segment saying they will support VRR? Why release an update for PS5 that supports those features and not VRR, makes no sense?

He's talking about the TVs with regards to VRR. The only thing he mentions for the PS5 are the auto tone mapping and auto genre picture mode. That update is already out and the 2021 sets were updated at the end of November for those features.

 

[kyliethicc]

He literally starts the segment saying they will support VRR? Why release an update for PS5 that supports those features and not VRR, makes no sense?

"Sony's 'Perfect for PS5' update is available now for Sony's top 2021 TVs. It brings two unique PS5-related features to play: Auto HDR Tone Mapping and Auto Genre Picture Mode.

But sadly variable refresh rate (VRR) remains absent. It won't launch on Sony's 2021 TVs (or the PS5) until later this year.

With one exception. The latest update does bring VRR – which adjusts the screen's refresh rate depending on what content it's displaying – to the Sony X85J, but no other sets. Sony's 2020 TVs received VRR via an update last month."

'Perfect for PS5' update rolling out now to 2021 Sony TVs, but VRR is still missing...

So not quite perfect then

www.whathifi.com

Here's from Sony' site - again the "by January" firmware update has nothing to do with adding VRR. Its not even part of their "Perfect for PS5" marketing shit.

Sony BRAVIA Gaming TVs for PlayStation

Ultimate gaming with BRAVIA TVs from Sony. True-to-life color and detail, fast response time and immersive sound to optimize your PlayStation experience.

electronics.sony.com

Spoiler

 

[Duchess]

Just a quick reminder to everyone that meteorological spring runs from start of March to end of May.

So, everyone's got to wait at least 5 months until they're allowed to get pissed that it didn't happen

 

[8BiTw0LF]

He's talking about the TVs with regards to VRR. The only thing he mentions for the PS5 are the auto tone mapping and auto genre picture mode. That update is already out and the 2021 sets were updated at the end of November for those features.

I haven't received any update on PS5. The small buttom text also says "end of January"?

"Sony's 'Perfect for PS5' update is available now for Sony's top 2021 TVs. It brings two unique PS5-related features to play: Auto HDR Tone Mapping and Auto Genre Picture Mode.

But sadly variable refresh rate (VRR) remains absent. It won't launch on Sony's 2021 TVs (or the PS5) until later this year.

With one exception. The latest update does bring VRR – which adjusts the screen's refresh rate depending on what content it's displaying – to the Sony X85J, but no other sets. Sony's 2020 TVs received VRR via an update last month."

'Perfect for PS5' update rolling out now to 2021 Sony TVs, but VRR is still missing...

So not quite perfect then

www.whathifi.com

That's an article from November. The screen cap is from yesterdays commercial video.

 

[mitchman]

Are we at the point where you pretend to be completely oblivious of how any kind of 3d engine works already?
Well, at least you made it clear early where this is going....


I´ve been a software architect for 15 years now and this just gave me a stroke....


pointless.
Have a good day.

Hey, I've been a developer on web browsers for 18 years, but ethomaz still tried to teach me how to make a web browser. It's called Dunning Kruger syndrome, isn't it?

 

[kyliethicc]

That's an article from November. The screen cap is from yesterdays commercial video.

Yes lol. Because you're talking about something that was announced months ago.

These features were announced in early October 2021.
Originally coming by end of December 2021.
Then they delayed their own deadline in the fine print til end of January 2022.

Sony introduces ‘Perfect for PS5’ TVs, a year after introducing ‘Ready for PS5’ ones | VGC

The new Bravia XR models will include two new PS5-based features…

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Yes lol. Because you're talking about something that was announced months ago.

These features were announced in early October 2021.
Originally coming by end of December 2021.
Then they delayed their own deadline in the fine print til end of January 2022.

Sony introduces ‘Perfect for PS5’ TVs, a year after introducing ‘Ready for PS5’ ones | VGC

The new Bravia XR models will include two new PS5-based features…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Still makes no sense they'd release an update for PS5 in end of January - that only supports their TV's...

 

[ManaByte]

I haven't received any update on PS5. The small buttom text also says "end of January"?

The PS5 didn't need an update, or it was included in the last big update before the TVs were updated, but as soon as my X90J updated and I turned on my PS5 it automatically detected the auto tone mapping HDR settings.

Yes lol. Because you're talking about something that was announced months ago.

These features were announced in early October 2021.
Originally coming by end of December 2021.
Then they delayed their own deadline in the fine print til end of January 2022.

Sony introduces ‘Perfect for PS5’ TVs, a year after introducing ‘Ready for PS5’ ones | VGC

The new Bravia XR models will include two new PS5-based features…

www.videogameschronicle.com

They're just covering their ass at this point because I think all of the 2021 sets already have the update.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Not reading 8 pages - has the VRR update for the PS5 been confirmed now? Great if so! Now people can shut up about it being pointless.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

The PS5 didn't need an update, or it was included in the last big update before the TVs were updated, but as soon as my X90J updated and I turned on my PS5 it automatically detected the auto tone mapping HDR settings.

But there will be an update soon according to this:

 

[kyliethicc]

Still makes no sense they'd release an update for PS5 in end of January - that only supports their TV's...

I'm not sure what you're talking about. And I'm not sure you know what you're talking about either lol.

Are you confused about the Auto HDR and Auto Picture things? They're intentionally only going to work with PS5 + Sony TVs.

PS5 VRR will of course work with other TVs. And their TVs will have VRR that can work with other sources.

But they have not said exactly when VRR will be added to their TVs or to PS5. Just later this year.

 

[ManaByte]

But there will be an update soon according to this:

No, again, that's just to cover their ass in case one of their 2021 models didn't get the firmware pushed yet. Like I said, most of them got it in late November. The Auto HDR update is already working on both PS5s and Bravias. You're deliberately cropping that video to make it look like VRR, when that part of the video was specifically talking about (and showing) how the auto HDR works.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. And I'm not sure you know what you're talking about either lol.

I'm talking about the update for PS5, that will come by the end of this month, lol.

No, again, that's just to cover their ass in case one of their 2021 models didn't get the firmware pushed yet. Like I said, most of them got it in late November. The Auto HDR update is already working on both PS5s and Bravias. You're deliberately cropping that video to make it look like VRR, when that part of the video was specifically talking about (and showing) how the auto HDR works.

That's clearly not what the text says... I guess no one knows what the "end-of-january-update" for PS5 is then.

 

[blastprocessor]

1440p? No thanks. Give me Dolby Vision support in 4K UHD BluRays!

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm talking about the update for PS5, that will come by the end of this month, lol.


That's clearly not what the text says... I guess no one knows what the "end-of-january-update" for PS5 is then.

1 - The PS5 update already happened. Went live on PS5 in October.

2 - Has nothing to do with the VRR update. Its to enable Auto Genre Picture Mode and Auto HDR Tone Mapping.