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[Fafalada]

if you have enough money you can work basically on two version of the game

If that starts happening (farming out S version to other studios) it'll spell a quick death for a console SKU that's already struggling to find a footing.
That said I'm wondering if MS would even allow it - those parity contract-terms aren't just for competing platforms.

Anyway - none of these are a real issue until legacy SKUs are out of the picture, right now it's all 'upgraded current gen' for multiplatform releases, which benefits Series S above all for scaling.

 

[FatKingBallman]

What third-party games were released with RT on PS and without on Xbox? Hint, you're not going to need a lot of paper for this one.

Observer, Devil May Cry 5

MS appears to have a different schedule than Sony as far as showing upcoming work on a new console. MS has never shown much running on a console publicly at e3 of launch year. Typically they have a lot of closed door showings, but Covid took that away this time. The only thing that matters is what actually gets released. Thus, the hubbub about the RT was FUD, obviously if there was a real issue RT would have missed some titles on Xbox.

They had their showing after the Road To PS5. And Phil Spencer felt great after the PS5 showcase. :/ No, it wasn't a FUD at all. It was the issue. They've also announced how they will offer a RT support as free download for Halo Infinite after launch.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

What third-party games were released with RT on PS and without on Xbox? Hint, you're not going to need a lot of paper for this one.

MS appears to have a different schedule than Sony as far as showing upcoming work on a new console. MS has never shown much running on a console publicly at e3 of launch year. Typically they have a lot of closed door showings, but Covid took that away this time. The only thing that matters is what actually gets released. Thus, the hubbub about the RT was FUD, obviously if there was a real issue RT would have missed some titles on Xbox.

Observer?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Observer, Devil May Cry 5

Devil May Cry 5 launched with RT on XSX. Actually outperformed the PS5 in that specific mode as well.

I think the RT mode in Observer System Redux did miss the initial launch, but even the XSS has a RT mode in that one now.


I'm not sure what 343i not having Halo ready has to do with anything. Not every new game utilizes RT at all, I'm sure that will continue.

I won't engage on this tangent any further. I've already done enough to derail this thread as it is. My bad.

 

[Negotiator101]

Any Xbox game must take into account the much weaker XSS with less RAM. You can't fly too far with XSX. The PS5 SSD IOP is much more powerful than the Xbox solution. Native PS5 games should look better than those on the Xbox if you have enough money, time and talent. Deduction.

Here we go

 

[Lysandros]

I noticed that the differences between last gen platforms are greater than the XSX and the PS5. I guess this could be an indication on how much closer the XSX and the PS5 are when compared to the X1 and the PS4. Pretty interesting.

PS4 was around 50% more powerful compared to XboxOne, taking ROPS, main RAM bandwidth and ASYNC compute capabilities into account on top of the teraflop advantage. This isn't remotely similar to XSX/PS5 situation where the machines are near identical in horsepower.

 

[Negotiator101]

PS4 was around 50% more powerful compared to XboxOne, taking ROPS, main RAM bandwidth and ASYNC compute capabilities into account on top of the teraflop advantage. This isn't remotely similar to XSX/PS5 situation where the machines are near identical in horsepower.

Near identical? Are we ignoring the 2tf advantage? The faster RAM? The locked CPU clocks vs variable? Full RDNA2 support? Similar? Yes, near identical? No.

 

[OneTruth]

15 page about nothing....You play in games or count pixels and fps?? This is fucking sick. PS5/XSX is plastic box with electronics inside. Not love person or God....

 

[skneogaf]

9 percent difference in fps at times.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Near identical? Are we ignoring the 2tf advantage? The faster RAM? The locked CPU clocks vs variable? Full RDNA2 support? Similar? Yes, near identical? No.

59.56fps

59.79fp

 

[DJTaurus]

And another one

 

[Umbasaborne]

I need my favorite console to have the best version!!!!!!

 

[Riky]

Looks like Series X with RT on and VRR for me with RT off on Series S for another solid performance.

 

[Jigsaah]

Within margin of error. Insignificant advantage for Xbox.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Devil May Cry 5 launched with RT on XSX. Actually outperformed the PS5 in that specific mode as well. I think the RT mode in Observer System Redux did miss the initial launch, but even the XSS has a RT mode in that one now.

Of course you don't know that Capcom wanted to launch DMCV on XSeries without RT on both. So, there was an issue with RT. And still is, XSS doesn't have it

Capcom previously stated that Xbox Series X would not ship with ray tracing support, which would be PlayStation 5 only

Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition - the first PS5 vs Xbox Series X platform comparison

It's finally happening. Ever since Microsoft and Sony revealed the hardware specifications of Xbox Series X and PlaySta…

www.eurogamer.net

Same as PS5 outperformed XSX in specific mode as well. Imagine, a weaker console outperforms supposedly a "much" stronger one.

I'm not sure what 343i not having Halo ready has to do with anything. Not every new game utilizes RT at all, I'm sure that will continue.

I won't engage on this tangent any further. I've already done enough to derail this thread as it is. My bad.

It was laughable for a flagship title like Halo wouldn't have an RT at launch back then, but MS, Phil Spencer and Co. touted out loudly about RT, yet PS5 demonstrated it in Spiderman, and even in Ratchet last year. Xbox was mocked rightfully so because of that. EOD.
So, basically PS5 had RT in games with not problem Xbox didn't. So, like i said, it wasn't FUD at all.

 

[assurdum]

Read the question I asked befor you say I was trolling. I asked wasn’t there a parity clause?

I also said I could be wrong on it.

there with your trolling, read what I said first

Come on now. Are you trying to convince me you believed a similar clauses is possible (a parity performance) and you genuinely asking? Really? Of course I'm trolling you the hell of argumentation was it

 

[phil_t98]

Come on now. Are you trying to convince me you believed a similar clauses is possible and you genuinely ask? Of course I'm trolling you the hell of argumentation is it.

I asked a question, your tone was aggressive after it. Reread my post and you will see what it said again.

you jump in with your console warring when I asked a question

 

[Hitchyhero]

59.56fps

59.79fp

I hate these comparisons as much as you but Sony fanboys have been calling that difference enormous when it's favoured the PS5.

As I've said in numerous digital foundry posts..... The best platform to get your games on is the one you have or plan to get.

 

[assurdum]

Near identical? Are we ignoring the 2tf advantage? The faster RAM? The locked CPU clocks vs variable? Full RDNA2 support? Similar? Yes, near identical? No.

And?

 

[Warnen]

I need my favorite console to have the best version!!!!!!

Come to the dark side....

 

[assurdum]

I asked a question, your tone was aggressive after it. Reread my post and you will see what it said again.

you jump in with your console warring when I asked a question

So can ask to you why Phil Spencer who hated temporal exclusive so much like them lately? Just a question.

 

[Haggard]

It was laughable for a flagship title like Halo wouldn't have an RT at launch back then, but MS, Phil Spencer and Co. touted out loudly about RT, yet PS5 demonstrated it in Spiderman, and even in Ratchet last year. Xbox was mocked rightfully so because of that. EOD.
So, basically PS5 had RT in games with not problem Xbox didn't. So, like i said, it wasn't FUD at all.

You do realize, that a massively multiplayer open world shooter is an entirely different beast than an SP experience like Spider Man or Ratchet?

Neither next gen console would be able to check all the boxes here, namely great graphics, great scale, noteworthy RT, 60fps and a resolution you still want to look at........At the end of the day those boxes are just low power AMD SoCs.....

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Again it's not alpha relative. It's the compute vantage. Series X can handle a static scene better than ps5 when raytracing is applied because of the higher cu counts. Otherwise ps5 would run equally "bad" on performance mode if the bandwidth is the cause.

That's not necessarily true. Only way to confirm is it framerate was unlocked. Maybe without rt it would drop from 75-65 and since with RT on its drop could be 65-55.

 

[rapid32.5]

Nobody congratulated Capcom for a decent job optimizing the game for so many platforms .

 

[FatKingBallman]

You do realize, that a massively multiplayer open world shooter is an entirely different beast than an SP experience like Spider Man or Ratchet?

You do realize that Insomniac Games managed to remaster first Spider man for PS5, develop Miles Morales for PS4 and PS5 and develop new Ratchet for PS5 from the ground up.... All that in a what, 2 years.
It is 343s problem to have a fucked up development and bad managment

 

[elliot5]

You do realize that Insomniac Games managed to remaster first Spider man for PS5, develop Miles Morales for PS4 and PS5 and develop new Ratchet for PS5 from the ground up.... All that in a what, 2 years.
It is 343s problem to have a fucked up development and bad managment

Insomniac is a hella impressive studio and very well managed given the games they had going on for PlayStation and Oculus.

However, do you really think Spider-Man Remastered, Miles Morales, and Ratchet were all finished in 2 years combined?

Ratchet was probably in pre production development since 2017, after the previous wrapped.

 

[HoofHearted]

Nobody congratulated Capcom for a decent job optimizing the game for so many platforms .

You mean actually discussing the game, gameplay mechanics, and it's merits???

Blasphemy - that's not what is done here!

Besides - this forum would be completely lost and boring without all of these game "comparison" threads arguing back and forth about < .5fps differences, 800% zoomed mud pits, and never-ending discussions around "supposed" GPU bottlenecks...

And how did we ever live without this guy????

 

[coffinbirth]

People like to joke, "the tools" or whatever, but Microsoft delayed production on Xbox Series for a reason...and now those features are about to start making their way into the XDK.
Did no one watch Game Stack this year? The performance gains are going to be substantial.
When can I start my own threads? That would be my first one probably, haha.

 

[Beer Baelly]

You mean actually discussing the game, gameplay mechanics, and it's merits???

Blasphemy - that's not what is done here!

Besides - this forum would be completely lost and boring without all of these game "comparison" threads arguing back and forth about < .5fps differences, 800% zoomed mud pits, and never-ending discussions around "supposed" GPU bottlenecks...

And how did we ever live without this guy????

 

[elliot5]

Nobody congratulated Capcom for a decent job optimizing the game for so many platforms .

Hey man, I did!

People like to joke, "the tools" or whatever, but Microsoft delayed production on Xbox Series for a reason...and now those features are about to start making their way into the XDK.
Did no one watch Game Stack this year? The performance gains are going to be substantial.
When can I start my own threads? That would be my first one probably, haha.

You'll just be met with Cerny video timestamps man, as a heads up.

 

[MasterCornholio]

PS4 was around 50% more powerful compared to XboxOne, taking ROPS, main RAM bandwidth and ASYNC compute capabilities into account on top of the teraflop advantage. This isn't remotely similar to XSX/PS5 situation where the machines are near identical in horsepower.

There were some pretty big differences between the two like one system using DDR3 while the other used GDDR5. Something similar isn't happening this time around which could explain why the two are so close.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

9 percent difference in fps at times.

This thread is already about a considerably more scientific analysis of the performance.

Compared to VGT, DF analysis is usually a minute late and a dollar short.

 

[Haggard]

You do realize that Insomniac Games managed to remaster first Spider man for PS5, develop Miles Morales for PS4 and PS5 and develop new Ratchet for PS5 from the ground up.... All that in a what, 2 years.
It is 343s problem to have a fucked up development and bad managment

That has absolutely nothing to do with your original statement and also changes nothing about the different scales and types of games or the small powerbudget of the consoles.....
If you want to ramble about stuff then at least try to stay consistent.

 

[rnlval]

Platforms PS5 RT On Xbox Series X RT On Xbox Series S RT On Frame Amounts Game Frames 29092 29204 20189 Video Frames 29308 29307 29308 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames 0 0 0 Lowest Torn Line - - - Frame Height 2160 2160 2160 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time 16.79ms 16.73ms 24.19ms Median Frame Time 16.67ms 16.67ms 16.67ms Maximum Frame Time 33.33ms 33.33ms 50ms Minimum Frame Time 16.67ms 16.67ms 16.67ms 95th Percentile Frame Time 16.67ms 16.67ms 33.33ms 99th Percentile Frame Time 16.67ms 16.67ms 33.33ms Frame Rate Statistics Mean Frame Rate 59.56fps 59.79fps 41.33fps Median Frame Rate 60fps 60fps 42fps Maximum Frame Rate 60fps 60fps 58fps Minimum Frame Rate 46fps 48fps 31fps 5th Percentile Frame Rate 57fps 59fps 36fps 1st Percentile Frame Rate 54fps 54fps 34fps Frame Time Counts 16.67ms 28876 (99.26%) 29101 (99.65%) 11072 (54.84%) 33.33ms 216 (0.74%) 103 (0.35%) 9115 (45.15%) 50ms 0 (0%) 0 (0%) 2 (0.01%) Other Dropped Frames 0 0 0 Runt Frames 0 0 0 Runt Frame Thresholds 20 rows 20 rows 20 rows

The frame rates are capped to 60 Hz. The proper benchmarking method has frame rates uncapped.

 

[Shmunter]

There is still a chance RT may impact the game more severely in parts yet not seen.

May need to play without RT if the final game doesn’t optimise better, with DRS etc.

Can’t be playing at 45fps if it happens often. Need to target performance over rez imho.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I need my favorite console to have the best version!!!!!!

Why wouldn't someone want that? or maybe it's the other way around... people pick the console they expect to perform better in order to play the games as well as they should, pushing their TVs and audio setup as far as possible? Knowing which perform better is something that counts, but as we see with the Switch situation, performance is but one factor and if the library has enough exclusive content then the specs take a back seat.

That being said, so far this gen I have yet to see any reason to call differences minimal at best (slightly smaller drops in some areas aren't meaningful differences as far as I am concerned, neither are 2 less seconds of loading time). a well implemented DRS solution basically makes all these differences even less important as this means that there will be differences mostly during heavy action or GPU stress.

So do what you will, these threads are here to stay and it's pretty easy to ignore them.

The frame rates are capped to 60 Hz. The proper benchmarking method has frame rates uncapped.

A console on a TV can't start a frame rate measuring tool and log the results, they have to show what's going on on the TV. This is not as good to get a good idea of the real performance delta for the hardware, but at the same time it tells us how functionally different they are, which is less accurate--but more useful if you want to know what really impacts you.

 

[Excess]

This was probably already said within the 15 pages of "my dick is bigger than yours", but these stats are identical on PS5 and XSX.

The small variations in lower framerates are negligible because they're in the 5th and 1st percentiles. And even in the 1st percentile, they're identical. Granted there's ever-so-slight variations in frame timings, but not only would this be pretty unnoticeable even without VRR, but there's also variation and margin of error within testing to consider.

I'm more interested in the PC benchmarks, as I genuinely feel console benchmarks are a silly way to click-bait you for attention. And seeing as we are 15 pages in, it worked.

 

[Md Ray]

The frame rates are capped to 60 Hz. The proper benchmarking method has frame rates uncapped.

Yes? It's consoles, not PC... They're either capped to 120Hz, 60Hz, or 30Hz.

 

[phil_t98]

So can ask to you why Phil Spencer who hated temporal exclusive so much like them lately? Just a question.

Your just being ridiculous, no need to console war over somebody asking a question

 

[FatKingBallman]

That has absolutely nothing to do with your original statement and also changes nothing about the different scales and types of games or the small powerbudget of the consoles.....
If you want to ramble about stuff then at least try to stay consistent.

Just show good managed studio can do wonders since you mentioned Spiderman and Ratchet. Anyway, no need to use exuse scale of a game. 343i has a huge workforce. MS touted loudly about RT, failed to deliver at launch. It is Phil Spencer's problem. And they were mocked rightfully so.

Neither next gen console would be able to check all the boxes here, namely great graphics, great scale, noteworthy RT, 60fps and a resolution you still want to look at........At the end of the day those boxes are just low power AMD SoCs.....

Spiderman Remastered has RT at 60, Miles Morales has RT at 60, open world games with great graphics. Sackboy also has RT at 60fps. So, since you said neither console, well, one console surely delivered RT at launch, and that is PS5.

Stay consistent too.

 

[Haggard]

Just show good managed studio can do wonders since you mentioned Spiderman and Ratchet. Anyway, no need to use exuse scale of a game. 343i has a huge workforce. MS touted loudly about RT, failed to deliver at launch. It is Phil Spencer's problem. And they were mocked rightfully so.

Still very different types of games and scale (hint: technical scale) no matter how often you repeat it.

Spiderman Remastered has RT at 60, Miles Morales has RT at 60, open world games with great graphics. Sackboy also has RT at 60fps.

Still very different types of games and scale (hint: technical scale) no matter how often you repeat it

. So, since you said neither console, well, one console surely delivered RT at launch, and that is PS5.

Maybe you should actually read the whole thing you want to comment on first.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Still very different types of games and scale no matter how often you repeat it.


Still very different types of games and scale no matter how often you repeat it


Maybe you should actually read the whole thing you want to comment on first.

You mentioned : Neither next gen console would be able to check all the boxes here, namely great graphics, great scale, noteworthy RT, 60fps and a resolution you still want to look at.......

Spiderman is a big game, no need to spin it. May you should actually read the whole thing again.

 

[Haggard]

You mentioned : Neither next gen console would be able to check all the boxes here, namely great graphics, great scale, noteworthy RT, 60fps and a resolution you still want to look at.......

Spiderman is a big game, no need to spin it. May you should actually read the whole thing again.

Spiderman is a singleplayer last gen game with a relatively small open world and some shine polished on top of it for the current gen. The technical scale is incomparable to a big flagship MMO.
And, we don`t have to argue about 343 fucking up royally, that much is abundantly clear.

But people like you need to get real about the RT capabilities of those machines...namely very little.

 

[Hage Kamo]

Parity

What Parity Clauses Really Mean For Games Like Resident Evil Village - IGN

While they are a standard part of the day-to-day for many, parity clauses are one way how platform holders try to ensure everyone playing a game has a good time regardless of platform.

www.ign.com

 

[DForce]

Parity

What Parity Clauses Really Mean For Games Like Resident Evil Village - IGN

While they are a standard part of the day-to-day for many, parity clauses are one way how platform holders try to ensure everyone playing a game has a good time regardless of platform.

www.ign.com

Yes, parity only has to do with features, content and not resolution and graphics. People wanted to believe otherwise.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Spiderman is a singleplayer last gen game with a relatively small open world and some shine polished on top of it for the current gen. The technical scale is incomparable to a big flagship MMO.

And the hard truth is that despite all that it still looks better than anything on the XSX, and will for some time.

 

[DenchDeckard]

And the hard truth is that despite all that it still looks better than anything on the XSX, and will for some time.

I'll give spiderman the raytracing its gorgeous with that enabled. But spiderman outside of tge cutscenes it doesn't look better than Hivebusters imo. But both look amazing.

 

[assurdum]

Your just being ridiculous, no need to console war over somebody asking a question

You didn't just asked. There was a continuous ping pong with the two sides about what was better between the two, why they ran like this and so on, it's not a coincidence in the same moment you just asked in such situation. No way a normal person can think such clause in a contract was about to downgrade the other versions. Let's move on.

 

[Lysandros]

Yes, parity only has to do with features, content and not resolution and graphics. People wanted to believe otherwise.

Furthermore PS5 doesn't need a technical parity clause to offer an equivalent or even superior performance in games, it suffices to look at the specs with some basic understanding, we have plenty of precedents.

 

[Riky]

Full game comparison.

Platforms	PS5 RT On	Xbox Series X RT On	Xbox Series S RT On
2	Frame Amounts
3	Game Frames	23772	24343	15619
4	Video Frames	24871	24871	24871
5	Frame Tearing Statistics
6	Total Torn Frames	0	0	0
7	Lowest Torn Line	-	-	-
8	Frame Height	2160	2160	2160
9	Frame Time Statistics
10	Mean Frame Time	17.44ms	17.03ms	26.54ms
11	Median Frame Time	16.67ms	16.67ms	33.33ms
12	Maximum Frame Time	66.67ms	33.33ms	50ms
13	Minimum Frame Time	16.67ms	16.67ms	16.67ms
14	95th Percentile Frame Time	16.67ms	16.67ms	33.33ms
15	99th Percentile Frame Time	33.33ms	33.33ms	33.33ms
16	Frame Rate Statistics
17	Mean Frame Rate	57.35fps	58.73fps	37.69fps
18	Median Frame Rate	59fps	60fps	37fps
19	Maximum Frame Rate	60fps	60fps	56fps
20	Minimum Frame Rate	42fps	48fps	27fps
21	5th Percentile Frame Rate	51fps	54fps	32fps
22	1st Percentile Frame Rate	48fps	50fps	30fps
23	Frame Time Counts
24	16.67ms	22676 (95.39%)	23815 (97.83%)	6380 (40.85%)
25	33.33ms	1094 (4.6%)	528 (2.17%)	9226 (59.07%)
26	50ms	1 (0%)	0 (0%)	13 (0.08%)
27	66.67ms	1 (0%)	0 (0%)