ethomaz
Banned
I'm not even sure if it is even worth due the gama and color loss.
Plus who plays the game doing stress tests lol
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[Vg Tech] Gran Turismo 7 PS5 vs PS4/Pro Frame Rate Comparison
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- Analysis
Plus who plays the game doing stress tests lol
Swift_Star
Banned
Oh, you know who…
FrankWza
Member
Is this true? It was cut off?Did you delivery cut the image?
Stress
Non-Stress
There is nothing to discuss when even at Stress test the game runs 98.46% of time at 60fps.
ethomaz
Banned
Yes... he cut exactly at that part.
I mean why cut the next 3 lines?
Gran Turismo 7 PS5 vs PS4/Pro Frame Rate Comparison Stats
With Stress Test Platforms,PS5,PS4 Pro,PS4 Frame Amounts Game Frames,51911,51208,51012 Video Frames,52712,52712,52712 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,0,0,0 Lowest Torn Line,-,-,- Frame Height,2160,2160,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.92ms,17.16ms,17.22ms Median Frame Tim...
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I cut the images because I was working on a 13 inch laptop. It's not a conspiracy lmao
Game isn't a rock solid 60, especially under stress conditions. Doesn't necessarily need VRR, DRS would help too.
Game isn't a rock solid 60, especially under stress conditions. Doesn't necessarily need VRR, DRS would help too.
ethomaz
Banned
But the data you cut shows it is rock solid 60fps even in Stress test.
Not to say about actual gameplay well 99.81%.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Nope.
ethomaz
Banned
Ok let me ask you.
Forza 7, Forza Horizon 5 or any other Forza has rock solid framerate?
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Insane Metal
Member
Literally unplayable. There was a time Sony exclusives were 99,9999% of the time running flawlessly. This is madness!!!!!!!!!!!Did you delibere cut the image?
Stress
Non-Stress
There is nothing to discuss when even at Stress test the game runs 98.46% of time at 60fps.
ethomaz
Banned
Only VRRRRRRRRUM can save us from that madness.
MasterCornholio
Member
I think what’s being said is that 99% of the time VRR wouldn’t do anything. But for 1% of the time it would help. I wouldn’t say this game desperately needs VRR since the frame rate is extremely stable. But it would be nice to have for those 1% drops but I would probably not notice them myself.
ethomaz
Banned
It would be nice to have VRR for others games like Elden Ring for example... I agree with that.
With this game I'm not even sure if it will help at all plus there is the issues with color and gama with VRR on.
The most weird thing was somebody in the last thread saying that PD should copy Turn 10 and make locked 60fps... well turn out the results are very similar to Forza games that most here says to have perfect framerate.
Because the drops are very similar.
And somebody in the DF thread said Forza 7 had flawless framerate.
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MasterCornholio
Member
True but I like to see VRR being used in rare drops instead of a necessity for smoother performance.
Edit: I’m not shitting on VRR BTW.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Why bring other franchises into this thread, you're just asking for platform warring ...
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I mean if you're going to be so pedantic about it.
The lowest drop in GT is 44 FPS:
Gran Turismo 7 PS5 vs PS4/Pro Frame Rate Comparison Stats
With Stress Test Platforms,PS5,PS4 Pro,PS4 Frame Amounts Game Frames,51911,51208,51012 Video Frames,52712,52712,52712 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,0,0,0 Lowest Torn Line,-,-,- Frame Height,2160,2160,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.92ms,17.16ms,17.22ms Median Frame Tim...
The lowest drop in Forza 7's demo (since VGTech did not cover the full game) is 58 FPS.
Forza Motorsport 7 Xbox One Frame Rate Test Stats (Demo)
fm7-demo-xb1-1 Platforms,Xbox One Frame Amounts Game Frames,32916 Video Frames,32923 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,38 Lowest Torn Line,228 Frame Height,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.67ms Median Frame Time,16.67ms Maximum Frame Time,30.93ms Minimum Frame Time,16.36ms ...
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But there wasn't any need to drag in Forza into this GT thread.
ethomaz
Banned
99.87% vs 99.81%I mean if you're going to be so pedantic about it.
The lowest drop in GT is 44 FPS:
Gran Turismo 7 PS5 vs PS4/Pro Frame Rate Comparison Stats
With Stress Test Platforms,PS5,PS4 Pro,PS4 Frame Amounts Game Frames,51911,51208,51012 Video Frames,52712,52712,52712 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,0,0,0 Lowest Torn Line,-,-,- Frame Height,2160,2160,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.92ms,17.16ms,17.22ms Median Frame Tim...docs.google.com
The lowest drop in Forza 7's demo (since VGTech did not cover the full game) is 58 FPS.
Forza Motorsport 7 Xbox One Frame Rate Test Stats (Demo)
fm7-demo-xb1-1 Platforms,Xbox One Frame Amounts Game Frames,32916 Video Frames,32923 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,38 Lowest Torn Line,228 Frame Height,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.67ms Median Frame Time,16.67ms Maximum Frame Time,30.93ms Minimum Frame Time,16.36ms ...
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But there wasn't any need to drag in Forza into this GT thread.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I mean if you're going to be so pedantic about it.
The lowest drop in GT is 44 FPS:
Gran Turismo 7 PS5 vs PS4/Pro Frame Rate Comparison Stats
With Stress Test Platforms,PS5,PS4 Pro,PS4 Frame Amounts Game Frames,51911,51208,51012 Video Frames,52712,52712,52712 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,0,0,0 Lowest Torn Line,-,-,- Frame Height,2160,2160,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.92ms,17.16ms,17.22ms Median Frame Tim...
The lowest drop in Forza 7's demo (since VGTech did not cover the full game) is 58 FPS.
Forza Motorsport 7 Xbox One Frame Rate Test Stats (Demo)
fm7-demo-xb1-1 Platforms,Xbox One Frame Amounts Game Frames,32916 Video Frames,32923 Frame Tearing Statistics Total Torn Frames,38 Lowest Torn Line,228 Frame Height,1080 Frame Time Statistics Mean Frame Time,16.67ms Median Frame Time,16.67ms Maximum Frame Time,30.93ms Minimum Frame Time,16.36ms ...
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But there wasn't any need to drag in Forza into this GT thread.
To me both a pretty much locked 60FPS titles.
I'm on a 12" Surface Pro 7 & I'm able to screen cap the whole sheet with room to spare
(It's not the size of your boat but the resolution in the ocean )
Insane Metal
Member
Still unplayable. I don't know how you guys can deal with this
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
MasterCornholio
Member
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Pro and PS5 look to close.
F cross gen!
F cross gen!
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I'll hold you (and the guys who gave a thumbs up) to this standard in future VGTech threadsDid you delibere cut the image?
Stress
Non-Stress
There is nothing to discuss when even at Stress test the game runs 98.46% of time at 60fps.
xHunter
Member
Considering your recent bans, doubt you will be on this account when the time comes.I'll hold you (and the guys who gave a thumbs up) to this standard in future VGTech threads
REDRZA MWS
Member
It’s a ps4 game,so it should.
Mabdia
Member
You know it's PS5 on the left, right?
I paid too much attention on the video that I read the text too fast. Thanks.
Killer8
Member
Did you delibere cut the image?
Stress
Non-Stress
There is nothing to discuss when even at Stress test the game runs 98.46% of time at 60fps.
You are focusing too much on mean performance and frame time counts and using that to discount very real performance deficits.
Yes the game runs at 60fps the vast majority of the time. Nobody is denying that and every analysis video has said as much. The game also has some performance drops in stressful circumstances (rain races with a lot of cars and alpha effects on screen). The two are not mutually exclusive.
Here is an example using simple math of why mean performance and frame time count can be deceptive. Let's say:
Game A runs at 60fps. In a 120 second video clip, the game drops to 57fps for 5 seconds.
Total frames = 115x60 (6900) + 5x57 (285) = 7185 frames
Game B also runs at 60fps. In a 120 second video clip, the game nosedives to 20fps for 2 seconds.
Total frames = 118x60 (7080) + 2x20 (40) = 7120 frames
Both scenarios are producing mean performance within 1% difference of each other. If you just looked at that number, it would seem like it's negligible. However, it's obvious that Game B's performance profile is going to be much worse from an end user experience. Game A is a slight drop of 3fps for a few seconds which people may shrug off, or not even notice if they aren't sensitive to FPS. Game B is momentarily dropping 40fps off a cliff, which would make it feel suddenly unplayable (see: Elden Ring's performance issues on PC for a real world example of this). You could even twist the statistics and claim that Game B ran 'better' because it technically adhered to the 16.67ms frame time more (for 118 frames versus 115 for Game A).
All of the above is a more extreme example than GT7, but it articulates why you can't just pick a few metrics - you also need to take into account percentile frame rates to judge performance as a whole. Now, back to Gran Turismo 7:
The 5th percentile suggests that yes, it is sometimes experiencing significant drops from its 60fps target. Minimum frame rate can be an important metric too because it can catch freak dips, but in many games can sometimes just be a one off that occurs eg. as a loading stutter. Something like 5th percentile would more accurately reveal more sustained drops, which it does here - the statistics describe exactly the behavior in the video at this timestamp:
Over 1 whole minute (3600 frames) of sustained 10-15fps dip, hitting as low as 45fps, before rebounding to 60fps once the number of cars and alpha effects clears up. Worth noting that it also wouldn't have cleared up as quickly had the player not made progress ie. if they were stuck behind all those alpha effects being rendered out the back of the cars.
I'm not the only one suggesting VRR to alleviate these issues (timestamped):
"It's something that could be cleaned up with VRR or dynamic resolution scaling but alas this is what we have in these situations"
So, why 'needs' VRR? The alternative is dynamic resolution, which is undesirable imo since one of the biggest bonuses of the game is its native 4K presentation. It also seems like an excessive solution to solve something so uncommon. Another alternative is reducing the alpha effect quality to match PS4, which would be another degradation. So yes, it does 'need' VRR, as that is the only option you can take if you want to mitigate the impact of these issues without compromising quality.
It's also, you know, a free feature done via hardware which the console is already capable of, but has not been implemented in 1.5 years after launch. My own hunch is it's because of internal Sony politics because their own Bravia TVs didn't feature it till only a few weeks ago. It would be somewhat embarrassing if their flagship console didn't have VRR on their flagship TV range, but did on say LG sets.
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ethomaz
Banned
You are focusing too much on mean performance and frame time counts and using that to discount very real performance deficits.
Yes the game runs at 60fps the vast majority of the time. Nobody is denying that and every analysis video has said as much. The game also has some performance drops in stressful circumstances (rain races with a lot of cars and alpha effects on screen). The two are not mutually exclusive.
Here is an example using simple math of why mean performance and frame time count can be deceptive. Let's say:
Game A runs at 60fps. In a 120 second video clip, the game drops to 57fps for 5 seconds.
Total frames = 115x60 (6900) + 5x57 (285) = 7185 frames
Game B also runs at 60fps. In a 120 second video clip, the game nosedives to 20fps for 2 seconds.
Total frames = 118x60 (7080) + 2x20 (40) = 7120 frames
Both scenarios are producing mean performance within 1% difference of each other. If you just looked at that number, it would seem like it's negligible. However, it's obvious that Game B's performance profile is going to be much worse from an end user experience. Game A is a slight drop of 3fps for a few seconds which people may shrug off, or not even notice if they aren't sensitive to FPS. Game B is momentarily dropping 40fps off a cliff, which would make it feel suddenly unplayable (see: Elden Ring's performance issues on PC for a real world example of this). You could even twist the statistics and claim that Game B ran 'better' because it technically adhered to the 16.67ms frame time more (for 118 frames versus 115 for Game A).
All of the above is a more extreme example than GT7, but it articulates why you can't just pick a few metrics - you also need to take into account percentile frame rates to judge performance as a whole. Now, back to Gran Turismo 7:
The 5th percentile suggests that yes, it is sometimes experiencing significant drops from its 60fps target. Minimum frame rate can be an important metric too because it can catch freak dips, but in many games can sometimes just be a one off that occurs eg. as a loading stutter. Something like 5th percentile would more accurately reveal more sustained drops, which it does here - the statistics describe exactly the behavior in the video at this timestamp:
Over 1 whole minute (3600 frames) of sustained 10-15fps dip, hitting as low as 45fps, before rebounding to 60fps once the number of cars and alpha effects clears up. Worth noting that it also wouldn't have cleared up as quickly had the player not made progress ie. if they were stuck behind all those alpha effects being rendered out the back of the cars.
I'm not the only one suggesting VRR to alleviate these issues (timestamped):
"It's something that could be cleaned up with VRR or dynamic resolution scaling but alas this is what we have in these situations"
So, why 'needs' VRR? The alternative is dynamic resolution, which is undesirable imo since one of the biggest bonuses of the game is its native 4K presentation. It also seems like an excessive solution to solve something so uncommon. Another alternative is reducing the alpha effect quality to match PS4, which would be another degradation. So yes, it does 'need' VRR, as that is the only option you can take if you want to mitigate the impact of these issues without compromising quality.
It's also, you know, a free feature done via hardware which the console is already capable of, but has not been implemented in 1.5 years after launch. My own hunch is it's because of internal Sony politics because their own Bravia TVs didn't feature it till only a few weeks ago. It would be somewhat embarrassing if their flagship console didn't have VRR on their flagship TV range, but did on say LG sets.
Man.
The stress scenario is made up and can only be archived if you set a race in a form you will get all the 20 cars on screen at beginning.
After that the the cars disperse and there is no more stress test.
Plus the one outliers in performance is Trail Montain ou 36 tracks.
I means I’m not even sure why you guys are discussing performance in a game that runs 99.83% of time at 60fps.
BTW they releases a new patch yesterday.
Fixed the slide issue not changing the IQ at first time setup.
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Boxster17
Member
I get that not everyone likes the tuning, and I'll agree that they should bring back some of the options from Sport. That being said, there are a lot of people that missed this sort of tuning and after asking for it all these years, to strip it all out would be extremely frustrating.
I also don't see how grinding for credits in Sport to buy a car is any different than in this game? Or are people just upset that you no longer get a free car every day from the roulette wheel? If you want to just race different cars, then throw some Sport Soft tires on for like 10k and have at it - not sure I understand why that's such a huge issue? Or is it mainly a time/convenience thing?
I would be all for them adding in some BOP type racers alongside the existing PP ones they have. GT Sport had a lot of tweaks and content added over the lifetime of the game, and I think it's safe to say you'll see something similar here.
EDIT: I will add that not being able to sell cars is a huge disappointment. That's clearly something they should've kept in the game.
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