• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

VentureBeat: This player spent $2 million in a mobile game. Then he led a boycott.

Dalek

Member
This player spent $2 million in a mobile game. Then he led a boycott.

stephen-barnes-930x698.jpg

Gree, the Japanese game company that owns mobile games such as Modern War, hit the gold mine with Stephen Barnes of Houston. The 59-year-old owner of an appliance store has spent more than $2 million in Modern War, as one of the leaders of a clan that has been around for more than four years. He also helped stage a boycott where 144 teams stopped spending and demanded that Gree make fixes in the game.

Welcome to the complicated world of VIP gamers, also known as “whales,” who spend what many of us might consider to be crazy amounts in their favorite free-to-play games. They are the best of customers, as perhaps 2 percent of players in free-to-play games (where you spend real money on virtual goods) spend any money at all. Those who spend amounts like Barnes has are the rarest of people, and they come to expect good treatment from the game company. How game companies choose to accommodate the needs of these players can be very important, much like the way that Las Vegas casinos court and coddle their high rollers who gamble away millions. If the game companies lose their whales, the impact can reach far beyond one person.

“When a player leaves, it’s clear that if they are well-connected and important — Social Value in our terms –that there’s a hit to the community in terms of revenue and of course in time and fun,” said Dmitri Williams, CEO of Ninja Metrics, a company that studies “social whales” and other game analytics. Williams notes that “social whales” are players who may not spend money but they cause other players to spend. In the case of the VIPs we are talking about here — the clan leaders who spend a lot of money — they spend a lot and they influence others to spend a lot.

Barnes came to my attention because the top clans in Modern War staged a boycott with perhaps 6,000 participants, including 22 of the top 25 player teams in the game. They sent a letter that demanded Gree address problems with the game and communicate with them about changes. Gree had modified the power and value of virtual items after players had purchased them, and it rescinded an item that teams had spent a lot of money to acquire.

For its part, Gree said in a statement, “Gree greatly values its customers and takes all customer complaints seriously. We are in the process of looking into and addressing each issue raised in the letter.” Gree refunded players for some of the controversial purchases.

The players say that Gree is now regularly communicating with them. The players say they understand the risks of staging a boycott. If Gree had unsympathetic game managers, it could just ban them. But that would be shooting itself in the foot, as the spenders would leave for another game. Gree might also decide that the aging game may not be worth the trouble at some point, and it could decide to shut the game.

I’ve reported on numerous boycotts over time, first at Zynga, which faced angry fans when it decided to shut games such as YoVille (and later sold it off), and at Russia’s Game Insight. Last year, I watched as thousands of players in top clans staged a boycott in Game of War: Fire Age. That boycott included the very top player in the game, and it led to high-level communication between the company and the fans. MZ, the company that runs Game of War, has lots of engineers to respond and make improvements in the game.
He noted that the company spent a lot of money improving the technology. Other companies don’t have that luxury.

“For us, the whole win was communicating with the company,” Valerie said.


The thing that these boycotts all had in common was that they were created by the players who loved the games the most. They wanted to fix the games that they loved, and they felt like the company needed to come down from its high perch and talk to them as real people, not sheep to be fleeced. I find the balance between the fans and the company managers to be a delicate tightrope, where neither side should overplay its hand.

Quite often, multiple gamers team up to run a single account, and that is usually a violation of a game’s terms of service. But game companies will often turn a blind eye, as these players spend a lot of money. Another dilemma for companies: Sometimes the big spenders like to cheat to win, or so smaller players suspect. Another interesting possibility. Sometimes players say they will do a boycott as a ruse, and they actually spend more while the others don’t.

One of the Modern War players, a 59-year-old insurance industry employee in New York named Valerie, introduced me to Barnes. She didn’t want her full name used. She spent perhaps $6,000 over five years, far less than Barnes, but still enough to qualify her as a whale.

Barnes said that he downloaded the game on the advice of an app advisor in November 2011. He never intended to spend any money, and at first he didn’t know he could. But he said, “I started getting my ass kicked. I figured I had to spend money real quick. Within two weeks.”

He purchased virtual currency, dubbed “gold,” in Modern War. It lets you speed things up or buy units that are more powerful. It doesn’t buy you victory outright (most Western gamers don’t like “pay to win” games). He quickly became the strongest player in the game, and he drew allies who spent a lot as well. He fought another player, and eventually, in February 2012, they called a truce and joined forces in a group called PUN. At first, Barnes was putting around 90 hours a week into it. These days, he spends maybe 40 hours a week playing.

“In the past four years, I don’t think I’ve had a weekend off from it,” Barnes said.

Many players have come and gone. Teams have split up and reformed. Barnes has stayed because of the social reasons.

“I’m the only original player left on the team,” Barnes said. “Most people will tell you it’s for the friendships, the rivalries. I have had people over for barbeques.”

“Over the years, people thought I got special treatment,” Barnes said. “We got more response than the typical player in sending in tickets. I had one contact in support for a while. After he left, I got canned responses. It’s nothing like a high-roller experience.”

But Barnes said he doesn’t want to be overly critical of the company that gave him the game he loves to play. “We had frustrations that built up for a long time. But we are not trying to torpedo Gree. We have passion for the game.”
 

Maxinas

Member
and the actions of these "2%" are the reason why so many mobile games are riddled with micro transactions and will never be taken seriously enough to pass as real games.
 

Ashtar

Member
How much disposable income do you have to have to spend 500,000 a year on a mobile game? I mean even if you play every day that's still over 1000 a day? Inconceivable!
 

Dalek

Member
How much disposable income do you have to have to spend 500,000 a year on a mobile game? I mean even if you play every day that's still over 1000 a day? Inconceivable!

I play Marvel Puzzle Quest and there are people playing that game who must be zillionaires. Some ultra rare characters come out and within a day they have the character fully covered and leveled-and that's only possible if they're spending thousands and thousands every month.
 
I play Marvel Puzzle Quest and there are people playing that game who must be zillionaires. Some ultra rare characters come out and within a day they have the character fully covered and leveled-and that's only possible if they're spending thousands and thousands every month.
maybe theyre cheating? don't know if that's possible lol
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Why? Why not play better games? With that money you could track down and play anything.

Or fuck, give the money to charity, jesus.

maybe theyre cheating? don't know if that's possible lol

It is/they are.

Btw, there is a non-F2P version of Marvel Puzzle Quest on consoles... and if you want mobile F2P Puzzle Quest then Magic the Gathering Puzzle Quest is better and Gems of War, by the original Puzzle Quest developers, is the best.
 

Dalek

Member
maybe theyre cheating? don't know if that's possible lol

Nah there's one particular alliance that this one player is in and apparently so many people think he's a cheater because of this. He's been constantly reported but on the official forums the developers have vouched for him just being a loyal whale. Apparently he's a movie director.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Nah there's one particular alliance that this one player is in and apparently so many people think he's a cheater because of this. He's been constantly reported but on the official forums theted developers have vouched for him just being a loyal whale. Apparently he's a movie director.

Eww.

Here's what I don't get: if money is no object to you, if you feel absolutely nothing when you spend it in these games because you have so much, then doesn't unlimited funds have something of the same effect as using a hack? I ask because I have dabbled with hacks in mobile games before and the way those games are designed actually makes it really boring and unfun to have unlimited access to everything.
 
Why? Why not play better games? With that money you could track down and play anything.

Or fuck, give the money to charity, jesus.

I'm gonna feel disgusting saying this, but so what? He enjoys the game, it's his money, and he can do what he wants with his time and cash. I mean, at some level, let people just like whatever they wanna like, be it mobile, F2P, or some trashy early access survival game. I'm sure he realizes this, but nothing is for that man's palette like this game is.

And while 2 million over the course of 4 years is a fucking lot of money, what he does with his entertainment money isn't for us to judge in terms of usage. Like, you could apply that to all other gamers - why aren't we dumping cash into our local charities?
 

HotHamBoy

Member
I'm gonna feel disgusting saying this, but so what? He enjoys the game, it's his money, and he can do what he wants with his time and cash. I mean, at some level, let people just like whatever they wanna like, be it mobile, F2P, or some trashy early access survival game. I'm sure he realizes this, but nothing is for that man's palette like this game is.

And while 2 million over the course of 4 years is a fucking lot of money, what he does with his entertainment money isn't for us to judge in terms of usage. Like, you could apply that to all other gamers - why aren't we dumping cash into our local charities?

I guess I really just don't get why *this* generic mobile game is so compelling to him. I don't really care how he spends his money, I just threw that in as an aside.

Looked it up. Just wow.

modern-war-android-5.jpg

I don't get it. Millions of shitty games on the mobile stores and this is the one he spends 2 million on. Whhyyyyyyy.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
I'm gonna feel disgusting saying this, but so what? He enjoys the game, it's his money, and he can do what he wants with his time and cash. I mean, at some level, let people just like whatever they wanna like, be it mobile, F2P, or some trashy early access survival game. I'm sure he realizes this, but nothing is for that man's palette like this game is.

Better to spend 1000$ a year on adding games to your backlog, rather than one you want to play.
 

MyBigBlackCup

Neo Member
And I thought my friend who spent 30k on a mud was bad. Its terrifying to think what that 2% spend on gacha games like Puzzle and Dragons.
 
I guess I really just don't get why *this* generic mobile game is so compelling to him. I don't really care how he spends his money, I just threw that in as an aside.

It seems like similar reasons we all have for playing games. Socializing and community.

These high ranking players must all be in communication with each other to collectively stage a boycott. So to them this is probably a lot more than a "generic mobile game". It's a common interest connecting them as a group of friends
 
I guess I really just don't get why *this* generic mobile game is so compelling to him. I don't really care how he spends his money, I just threw that in as an aside.

I dunno, he enjoys it I guess. A game can be simply fun to someone, and the more money the more access and more funds they'll spend on it. There's a social aspect that he enjoys as well.

Better to spend 1000$ a year on adding games to your backlog, rather than one you want to play.

"I'd rather have a steam list filled with games I'll never play than a handful of titles I'll actively enjoy" is such a common mantra for gamers of today that I'm sure the concept of someone enjoying a single title is dumbfounding.
 
"I'd rather have a steam list filled with games I'll never play than a handful of titles I'll actively enjoy" is such a common mantra for gamers of today that I'm sure the concept of someone enjoying a single title is dumbfounding.

Yeah steam hoarding habits make waaaaaay less sense to me than something like this.

Although it's probably similar. Spending money to show off the bounty of your purchases to a group of friends
 

Somnid

Member
He doesn't seem to really enjoy the game as much as it's his social outlet. This seems to be fairly common scenario with things like MMOs. We're just lucky NeoGaf doesn't charge by the post.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
The most I ever spent on a mobile game was something around $250 on Solforge, which is a digital card game like Hearthstone (but better, damn it!). It was $5 here, $10 there, usually whenever a new set came out. The game is legit and I spent hundreds of hours playing it.

Of course, I spent way more on Magic cards back in the day and have nothing to show for that, so whatever.

This year alone I've probably spent $500 playing pinball. Holy shit, that's the first time I'd thought about it...
 

joecanada

Member
Ok like others here I just wonder is there no other game that is this good for just a paltry 60 or 100 bucks? Surely someone has thought of making full price games that can be as good as these.

Also to answer another question yes everyone spends money on stuff but as someone who actually does give money to charity I'll just say it's not hard to do and makes you feel much better. Doesn't have to be all your fun money. But whatever I'm not here to preach
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Ok like others here I just wonder is there no other game that is this good for just a paltry 60 or 100 bucks? Surely someone has thought of making full price games that can be as good as these.

Also to answer another question yes everyone spends money on stuff but as someone who actually does give money to charity I'll just say it's not hard to do and makes you feel much better. Doesn't have to be all your fun money. But whatever I'm not here to preach

To be fair to this guy he might give millions more to charity. We don't know.

I don't get the hate over this guy using his money on something he enjoys.

No hate here. Just astounded.
 

ReaperXL7

Member
If the devs make a game he enjoys playing and he chooses to give them some cash to compensate their work I don't see what the issue is.

I don't spend a ton on mobile games even though I play quite a few but I have spent money on the ones in which I felt the dev team was fair or the game was well made in my eyes.

No difference in him supporting his favorite game the way he does and those who spend money on DLC or subscriptions on MMOs.
 
What the fuck

Thought for a second this would be about a whale wanting his money back.

Even though this isn't that, what the fuck.

Somebody should tell the guy there's $60 games out there with more value than the amount he's dropped on this.
 
What the fuck

Thought for a second this would be about a whale wanting his money back.

Even though this isn't that, what the fuck.

Somebody should tell the guy there's $60 games out there with more value than the amount he's dropped on this.

I'm sure he knows. The social aspect is big for him, though, and I'm sure he couldn't give a shit less that Dragon Quest Builders is a thing or that you can see virtual boobies with VR these days.
 

joecanada

Member
I don't care what he does with the cash but does anyone else feel at some point this isn't really a game of skill? Like if a game allows you to spend 1000 a day it must have benefits so when does it just become pay to win? Like it sounds like an actual money collection system more than a game. I want to make one lol .
 

ReaperXL7

Member
I don't care what he does with the cash but does anyone else feel at some point this isn't really a game of skill? Like if a game allows you to spend 1000 a day it must have benefits so when does it just become pay to win? Like it sounds like an actual money collection system more than a game. I want to make one lol .

A lot of people play these games for the social aspects. Social interaction in core gaming has takin a pretty big nose dive for a lot of reasons but there are tons of RPGs/Strategy games that are built around social interaction and it can be quite nice if you find a good group of people to play with.

Personally,as someone with a Wife and kids it's often easier to get time in with FF Record Keeper or Super Monster League then it is to veg on a console or PC, and I can chat with mostly decent people while I'm farming what I need.
 

casiopao

Member
Don't know why somebody is shocked with this. He enjoyed this game that he feel that the money is well spend.

I mean, i see some spend even more money in buying games they won't played at all. At least for this one, he is enjoying all his time.^_^
 

SwolBro

Banned
wait, no one is asking wtf is up with this appliance store that these dude is bringing in that kind of money???

damn
 
As long as he's not going into debt or sacrificing aspects of his life then fine I guess. I do think spending that much money on a single game may be signs of addiction though.
 

spekkeh

Banned
Interesting that these boycotts actually work, instead of certain other Modern War... boycotts.


How much disposable income do you have to have to spend 500,000 a year on a mobile game? I mean even if you play every day that's still over 1000 a day? Inconceivable!
Who says it's disposable income? They could be gambling addicts going into debt.
 
Top Bottom