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[VentureBeat] PlayStation’s strength is that it can do it all

why u assume I was mad, tho? I'm just saying it like it is, sustainable for MS doesn't mean profitability for Xbox division, that's all
It’s not like that MS hordes profits across divisions and says “you can’t touch this, it’s not your division!”. Sony doesn’t either. So profitability for the Xbox division is hardly relevant as MS is overall extremely profitable. They could run 5 Xbox divisions at a loss if they wanted and it would hardly put a dent on their balance sheet.
 
It’s not like that MS hordes profits across divisions and says “you can’t touch this, it’s not your division!”. Sony doesn’t either. So profitability for the Xbox division is hardly relevant as MS is overall extremely profitable. They could run 5 Xbox divisions at a loss if they wanted and it would hardly put a dent on their balance sheet.

there's a difference, Playstation is Sony's main revenue, it IS the division that sustains all their other divisions......not so in Microsoft/Xbox
 
there's a difference, Playstation is Sony's main revenue, it IS the division that sustains all their other divisions......not so in Microsoft/Xbox
It is still not relevant at all. That just means Sony is in a more precarious position. Xbox benefits from Microsoft’s overall profitability. $70 billion dollars of benefit to be precise.
 
It is still not relevant at all. That just means Sony is in a more precarious position. Xbox benefits from Microsoft’s overall profitability. $70 billion dollars of benefit to be precise.

oh I absolutely agree that Sony is in far more precarious position......but don't tell me Xbox gamepass is profitable without any hard proof, because Phil or MS CEO words 'sustainable for Microsoft' can be interpret in different ways
 

Swift_Star

Gold Member
Holy hell some of you are in denial.

Sustainable does not in any way shape or form mean profitable. It means you can keep it alive.

If Game Pass was profitable Microsoft would be screaming it from the rooftops. Screaming. But you have chowderheads like Aaron Greenberg who flat out say it's not, and MS reporters like Tom Warren also stating it's not. If Greenberg isn't even willing to bend the truth about it and he says its

But you, Bernd Lauert, know that it is because Spencer, a guy who never shuts up, said the phrase "its very sustainable." What that means is that MS is willing to subsidize it no problem. The key word in business is profitable. They will say that when they can.

But let me ask you this ... do you know what it costs to support these studios? These purchases the MS crowd are so enthusiastic about have running costs and they are extremely expensive. Game Pass is going to become a GaaS/MTX platform at the current rate. And that's fine honestly. But you aren't going to get the kinds of games that Nintendo and Sony deliver on a regular basis because the need to cover your costs with less money means a different model will be necessary. I mean come on, they are about to spend nearly 70 billion dollars, cash, on a company that pulls in around 5 billion revenue a year, where it's biggest series is on the decline. A company that had such little vision for itself, it shopped itself around to find a buyer and MS was the only willing participant! Somehow these massive new studio costs, and removing the need to buy these games on the Xbox platform, combined with MS' noted ability to manage studios and Activision's internal issues is going to result in some new force in the industry? Again, think and use your brains. I will be happy to be wrong, but we've seen stuff like this before. Repeatedly.

We are at 25 million GP users thus far, correct? Look at the complaints for this months games, and people saying they are going to quit the service potentially if output doesn't improve on this very board. I spent one dollar for three years. People are constantly telling others on here how to get multiple years for the price of one month if you've already done that deal. How many people in that number are from a trial over the holidays? Point is they are obviously not raking in cash monthly with this, and it's not this utopia service everyone is thrilled with and will keep forever. Yes of course some people are paying monthly but I bet the numbers in that sense are a lot lower than people think. Which is why it's ... "sustainable!" So again, why does Sony need to scramble on this? I just spent 45 bucks on Sifu and 80 on HFW. I am almost surely going to get GT7 even though I'm not that into racers, but it looks cool to me so I'll get it. That's in the span of less than four weeks that I've spent 200 dollars on PS software. I'm going to buy a bunch of Switch games this year too. How is that not execution excellence on their part? I would have bought Starfield on XSX this year had I not gotten access to it, and absolutely everything else they make, for a buck. What other games does MS even have on that scale for the rest of 2022? Which company sounds the "least smart" in this described scenario? You're saying Sony and Nintendo need to find a way to combat that? 🤷‍♂️

I don't get the MS only crowd on this board, and it's like 5 or 6 people that send everything off the rails, without fail. Go buy some other platforms. Learn that it's ok to think these companies aren't perfect. I can think of plenty of things I think Sony or Nintendo could be doing better, because I'm not into these companies that way. But those two fan bases don't seem to have a cabal of users that jump into every thread to defend every move those companies make no matter which direction those moves are in! I see plenty Sony focused people on this board constantly criticizing what the company is doing. I have no idea what Nintendo focused people are doing, even though I'm one of them. Maybe we've just been so burned by that company we learned to get over all of this long ago. :pie_thinking:

I just want to talk about what games we are playing and what is fun, and why. Horizon unlocks in less than 12 hours. That's going to be awesome. Sifu is surprisingly good. Mario Kart 8 is going to start getting some new tracks starting next month, and I'm really excited for that. Xenoblade 3 will likely be incredible in September, not to mention all the other great stuff announced for Switch. Halo should be getting patches soon, so hopefully we can do classic co-op with friends again. Starfield in November of course. These are the kinds of things we should be discussing. Not lying about our favorite company because it hurts us to think they might not have brilliant people at the helm, or that they are, *gasp*, losing money . I really don't envy the mods. It's all so exhausting.

Now back to work and that horizon countdown. :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
You my friend, are 100% correct.
 
6 pac fiddy needs to be blurier for the comparison to work.
 
Like I was saying a long time ago, it's very smart of them to leverage their trans-media divisions to add more value to their gaming IP. They could even potentially do crossovers: Jak x Sly Cooper x Rachet shared universe projects for example that can be in the form of both a video game and television show (or film).

It's a unique advantage; focus on your strengths and synergize them.
 

kingfey

Banned
but 'sustainable for Microsoft' doesn't mean profitability in Xbox division
Sustainability is the 1st process for profit. If the service can pay itself, it can generate profits.

Rich daddy MS to his son: As long as you make xx amount of money, which is yy percent of your expense, I could cover the rest
Same for Sony. Sony other divisions helps SIE make those games. How do you think Sony achieves these quality? From dream farms? Both use their other division resources.

Only difference now, is that MS needs content for future gamepass. Which is their goal. So money spent now, and you get those return later. Its called investment.
 
Well. If you have 60 million GP subscribers at 10$ per month (some people pay more for Ultimate, some people less) you have 600 million dollars per month and 7,2 billion per year. That's literally 3 AAA developed per month. Of course, there are other expenses as your first-party stuff, but on the other hand, gaming subscription is not like Netflix, where subs are your only revenue stream. You still have microtransactions, season passes, DLC's and people are still buying games (may I remind, that more then 4 million players bought Ultimate version of Forza Horizon 5 despite fact that game was on Game Pass?)

So I think that 60 million is more then enough.
All people I know that use gamepass once in a while haven't paid the full price for the service even once. And none of them bought something on the ms/gamepass store yet. We've always used gamepass sales for something like 1$ for a month or even less.
 
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Holy hell some of you are in denial.

Sustainable does not in any way shape or form mean profitable. It means you can keep it alive.

If Game Pass was profitable Microsoft would be screaming it from the rooftops. Screaming. But you have chowderheads like Aaron Greenberg who flat out say it's not, and MS reporters like Tom Warren also stating it's not. If Greenberg isn't even willing to bend the truth about it and he says its not a profit play ... you can believe that.

But you, Bernd Lauert, know that it is because Spencer, a guy who never shuts up, said the phrase "its very sustainable." What that means is that MS is willing to subsidize it no problem. The key word in business is profitable. They will say that when they can.

But let me ask you this ... do you know what it costs to support these studios? These purchases the MS crowd are so enthusiastic about have running costs and they are extremely expensive. Game Pass is going to become a GaaS/MTX platform at the current rate. And that's fine honestly. But you aren't going to get the kinds of games that Nintendo and Sony deliver on a regular basis because the need to cover your costs with less money means a different model will be necessary. I mean come on, they are about to spend nearly 70 billion dollars, cash, on a company that pulls in around 5 billion revenue a year, where it's biggest series is on the decline. A company that had such little vision for itself, it shopped itself around to find a buyer and MS was the only willing participant! Somehow these massive new studio costs, and removing the need to buy these games on the Xbox platform, combined with MS' noted ability to manage studios and Activision's internal issues is going to result in some new force in the industry? Again, think and use your brains. I will be happy to be wrong, but we've seen stuff like this before. Repeatedly.

We are at 25 million GP users thus far, correct? Look at the complaints for this months games, and people saying they are going to quit the service potentially if output doesn't improve on this very board. I spent one dollar for three years. People are constantly telling others on here how to get multiple years for the price of one month if you've already done that deal. How many people in that number are from a trial over the holidays? Point is they are obviously not raking in cash monthly with this, and it's not this utopia service everyone is thrilled with and will keep forever. Yes of course some people are paying monthly but I bet the numbers in that sense are a lot lower than people think. Which is why it's ... "sustainable!" So again, why does Sony need to scramble on this? I just spent 45 bucks on Sifu and 80 on HFW. I am almost surely going to get GT7 even though I'm not that into racers, but it looks cool to me so I'll get it. That's in the span of less than four weeks that I've spent 200 dollars on PS software. I'm going to buy a bunch of Switch games this year too. How is that not execution excellence on their part? I would have bought Starfield on XSX this year had I not gotten access to it, and absolutely everything else they make, for a buck. What other games does MS even have on that scale for the rest of 2022? Which company sounds the "least smart" in this described scenario? You're saying Sony and Nintendo need to find a way to combat that? 🤷‍♂️

I don't get the MS only crowd on this board, and it's like 5 or 6 people that send everything off the rails, without fail. Go buy some other platforms. Learn that it's ok to think these companies aren't perfect. I can think of plenty of things I think Sony or Nintendo could be doing better, because I'm not into these companies that way. But those two fan bases don't seem to have a cabal of users that jump into every thread to defend every move those companies make no matter which direction those moves are in! I see plenty Sony focused people on this board constantly criticizing what the company is doing. I have no idea what Nintendo focused people are doing, even though I'm one of them. Maybe we've just been so burned by that company we learned to get over all of this long ago. :pie_thinking:

I just want to talk about what games we are playing and what is fun, and why. Horizon unlocks in less than 12 hours. That's going to be awesome. Sifu is surprisingly good. Mario Kart 8 is going to start getting some new tracks starting next month, and I'm really excited for that. Xenoblade 3 will likely be incredible in September, not to mention all the other great stuff announced for Switch. Halo should be getting patches soon, so hopefully we can do classic co-op with friends again. Starfield in November of course. These are the kinds of things we should be discussing. Not lying about our favorite company because it hurts us to think they might not have brilliant people at the helm, or that they are, *gasp*, losing money . I really don't envy the mods. It's all so exhausting.

Now back to work and that horizon countdown. :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
An entire wall of text based on the false premise that Gamepass is losing money, when the CEO of Microsoft gaming said the exact opposite. Copium.
 

kingfey

Banned
All people I know that use gamepass once in a while haven't paid the full price for the service even once. And none of them bought something on the ms/gamepass store yet. We've always used gamepass sales for something like 1$ for a month or even less.
Man, you guys are cute.

What is the next? 25m people are paying 1$ only?

You guys are so tiny, that your numbers can't even reach 20k.
 

Zeroing

Gold Member
As usual looking at the comments, everything is an excuse to turn everything into a gamepass “thread” !

For over 2 years we had threads non stop ad naseum! People should get over it! It’s getting tiresome
 
How in the hell do the “platform holders” just invent ways to make this work? What a dumb ass attitude. I would absolutely "resist the change" because the change isn't going to work for business. Companies generally don't exist to lose money. While Microsoft can do it because the Xbox division is basically subsidized by the divisions that make money, and always have been, Sony and Nintendo cannot afford that because they are not trillion dollar behemoths.

Sony has already said the subscription model doesn’t work for the kinds of games they make. We know MS loses money on Game Pass. But you think now you are owed cheap games? Your attitude is ... “not my problem.” So you want games at a price that’s WAY below what they cost to make, and you’re proud of that fact. Brilliant. Truly a sharp mind you have there.

Let me ask you this. Do you expect people to pay you for your work? I assume yes. I bet there is even a chance you think you are underpaid. But for some reason you think it’s your right, and Microsoft’s/Sony’s obligation, to have a service they subsidize so you don’t have to pay for your hobby. What a selfish and short sighted perspective. I don't see how you and similarly minded people don't see how this doesn't work out.

I happily pay full price for games, because I like supporting the creators. Just as I expect people who want me to work for them to pay me well, because I’ve worked hard to have rare and high end skills. It's called understanding value and respecting other people's labor. But no, you think "just give it all to me for a couple bucks." I mean, WTF.

But at the very least, we are entering the next phase of this, which of course I've been calling for years. And that phase is people being proud of not paying. I said this model is dangerous because it devalues software. I, and many others, were told we were crazy and got the typical "laugh" responses by the small core gang because that "just wouldn't happen" (much like DarkMage619 DarkMage619 did above, because he has no argument to respond with, and no leg to stand on, so he tries to rely on derision as a rhetorical defense. But he knows I'm right. He knows it). And lo and behold, look at the proud language being used by people saying no way do they want to pay anymore. But at the same time people want more, while demanding they pay less. But at least they are being open about it.

I don't know where this goes at this point, but people are at least drawing their line in the sand. Good luck trying to tell a business you don't want to pay for product though, while they need to figure out how to make it profitable. And then when they pack it all in you'll be standing there whining "but muh video games!" :rolleyes:

D. Bass spitting hot fiyah!!!!!!


on fire GIF
 

kingfey

Banned
Sorry for the late respond Dr Bass Dr Bass . I was in a work.

Code:
Im sure this is partially targeted towards me. I’m not mad. I’m in the software engineering business. I know what the value of software is. I also have Game Pass as I’ve said over and over, so being mad is a straw man, and a pretty lame argument in and of itself. I mean that’s what you think you can come back with? Essentially “U mad?” Get a grip.
And your argument doesn’t work here. Because those prices are tied to individual titles. They live and die based on their own performance. It’s not the same thing as an all you can eat software buffet for one price. Again look at the numbers Netflix has in terms of subscribers. Nearly 10x of GP. Look at the struggles they are still having at that scale. Look at how much they charge now!
Your argument is not only hollow in this case, it’s just demonstrably incorrect. We’ve already seen multiple people on this board start to say, after having GP, “I ain’t paying for games.” It’s exactly the scenario I said GP could enable and it’s beginning to unfold on a small scale. That is literally the definition of devaluing games.
Let’s just hope it doesn’t continue.

Since I cant quote you, because the mods closed the thread.

The value perception that you are creating, is not the same as what those company want. The value of those games lies in their system. Its not the price. Sony created Single player narritive for their system, While xbox went with MP games. Both of these genre is what associated to their system. That is where the value of their games lies in.

For Netflix case, They are already making profits on their model. They can charge what they want now. They have now 200m users, which generates alot of profits to them. Even disney+ started at cheap, then they increased, once they hit a milestone. They understand, that if they increased the price at lower milestone, people would have left the service. But once people found value in that service, they are unable to leave, hence why these companies can increase the price.
 

Lognor

Banned
All people I know that use gamepass once in a while haven't paid the full price for the service even once. And none of them bought something on the ms/gamepass store yet. We've always used gamepass sales for something like 1$ for a month or even less.
Weird. Everyone I know pays full price for Game Pass and does it with a smile. And they buy a lot of stuff on the store. Like A LOT. Really. Everyone I know loves Game Pass and they all bought Xboxes because of Game Pass and they'll never unsubscribe. Well, that's everyone I know.
 

Sega Orphan

Banned
I highly doubt it. Sony has a way bigger output of exclusives, as an example this H1 they have Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection, GoW PC, Sifu, Horizon 2, GT7, Ghostwire Tokyo, Stray, Forspoken and some more I may foget.

Regarding MS acquisitions, so far everything they published since acquired is on PS too, they said their strategy for Bethesda is 'first or better' on their platforms and that they want to keep on PS CoD and the other big ABK IPs. We'll have to see what games of these studios are multi, which timed exclusives and which full console exclusives.

In addition to this, we also have to remember that Sony is highly growing all their internal development studios, are also making acquisitions plus signing many 2nd party an 3rd party exclusive deals.
It's a numbers game.
Firstly, there won't be any more Zenimax games on PS5 after Ghostwire. I know you might want them to be, but don't hang any hope to it.
COD will remain on PS, and who knows what else MS will do with the rest of the ABK games. They will do what they have to to get the deal across the line.

MS has more studios than PS now. Alot of the neew studios Sony bought were to convert existing PS games to PC, or are support studios. This will obviously help Sony with their game development, so was a good move.
But it's a fact that the Xbox studios will put more games out each year than the Sony ones will. I could do a breakdown of every studio and what they are developing, but it is kinda going away from the topic.

My point is that Sony will need to keep adding studios to increase their exclusive output. They are doing that, and they have said they are going to continue doing that. So I think the future is bright for Sony, and outside of more games (which is the same for Xbox) there's nothing to stop them continuing on their form from PS4.
 
Alot of the neew studios Sony bought were to convert existing PS games to PC, or are support studios.

Wut

They’ve literally bought one studio that specializes in PC ports. Also, you realize the reason for buying support studios is so they can make games faster? They aren’t there to give emotional support
 

Sega Orphan

Banned
Wut

They’ve literally bought one studio that specializes in PC ports. Also, you realize the reason for buying support studios is so they can make games faster? They aren’t there to give emotional support
Which is literally what I said no?
I said that it will help Sony with their game development and is a good move.
It seems we agree.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Weird. Everyone I know pays full price for Game Pass and does it with a smile. And they buy a lot of stuff on the store. Like A LOT. Really. Everyone I know loves Game Pass and they all bought Xboxes because of Game Pass and they'll never unsubscribe. Well, that's everyone I know.

I've never paid a dollar for Game Pass. And so now you know of someone who did not pay "full price" for Game Pass. So how does that work when you seem to be speaking for so many people who are not you? Very strange that you think you can speak for "everyone" you know. I certainly cannot.

That's the problem with anecdotal references.
 
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I played 30+ games on Xbox last year, payed $60.
I played 4 games on PS5 last year, payed $260.

It’s no point resisting this change. It’s the platform holders job to make sure that the developer can make money in this new world. I ain’t paying a cent more than I need in some weird attempt to save the industry. I would be there day 1 subscribing to a subscription service with Sony 1st party games day 1 and I wouldn’t feel bad about not buying their games anymore even for a second.
I haven’t bought a MS game in years. No regrets.
Great article, even if they forgot that Sony also has the biggest 3rd party support and VR, or that they are also expanding to mobile (where they already have a mobile game outside SIE generating over a Billion per year) and PC (where they sell millions of copies of several years old ports).






After Tencent Sony is the gaming company that makes more revenue.
They are also the company with the biggest console userbase (111MAU).
Their console is where more games are sold (over 1700M on PS4 before the PS5 release).
They have the biggest games subscrpition service.
They are the ones with more exclusives in the GOTY winners or candidate lists of the last decade.
They have the biggest 3rd party support.
With PS4 and PS5 frequently break many gaming history records for any console platform in many areas.






They have 2 internal development Japanese studios plus a Japanese 2nd party publishing team. Plus basically all known Japanese 3rd party company has at least a PS4 exclusive and also publish most of their other games on PS too as multi or after a timed console exclusive elsewhere. Their console is the one with the biggest amount of Japanese games. They don't lack Japanese games.

Most games published by PS Studios aren't open world games, and their console is the one with the biggest amount of RPGs, both exclusive and multiplatform.

Regarding FPS, in addition to acquire Bungie who in addition to Destiny 2 seems they may publish a couple of new IPs in the next couple of years or so, they a 2nd party game made by former Bungie, Apex Legends or Bioshock Infinite folks and another one by former CoD BO, in addition to a multiplayer Guerrilla game being directed by the Rainbow Six Siege and Killzone 2 MP director. Plus also have all the multiplatform big guns, where their console is the biggest platform for them.


Seems that subscriptions will continue growing (looking at Xbox and MS console userbase/fanbase until maybe doubling their corrent size), but still are a very small part of the business. Games sold or F2P generate most of the revenue in the business.
Good points, but I was mostly talking about Sony from a first party perspective. I would like to see Sony get a few more first party Japanese developers and back them with a bigger budget and marketing.

I guess when Sony says Japan is still very important to them, yet to my knowledge they don’t invest into any major Japanese games or studios, but rely on timed third party games that seems strange to me. Like you said though, Sony knows they typically get majority of the Japanese third games anyway, so they may not see building Japanese first parties as being a top priority or worth investing into because of third parties.
 
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Lognor

Banned
I've never paid a dollar for Game Pass. And so now you know of someone who did not pay "full price" for Game Pass. So how does that work when you seem to be speaking for so many people who are not you? Very strange that you think you can speak for "everyone" you know. I certainly cannot.

That's the problem with anecdotal references.
Dude. Did you read the post I responded to? Whoosh
 

DarkMage619

Member
Not sure what PlayStation is doing that other platforms aren't doing as well and in many cases others are doing much, much more. Only look to features like backwards compatibility, FPS boost, and numerous other improvements to games I already purchased on other platforms for no additional fee shows how Sony could be doing much more for their customers. The fact Sony is trying to have some sort of answer to Game pass already shows they see it as something worth responding to.

No matter how much Sony fans attack the service they can't prove one critical point. That it is a bad deal for gamers, you know the people who all of these companies should be catering to. Sony also making moves to increase the costs of normal titles and are even selling Horizon Forbidden West for $70 on PS5 despite selling the PS4 version for $60 that includes the PS5 version. Not really seeing the pro-gamer move there. Hiding the cheaper option is a nice touch.

You can also add in things like PS4 controllers working remotely on PS5 but not locally again not really a plus for gamers. Sony only digital games stores aren't beneficial to gamers either. Lots of their recent moves have really only benefitted Sony not gamers so it's so odd to see people call out services like Game pass a service that clearly benefits gamers. That service is also complimentary to normal game purchases which is the same as any other platform holder.

PlayStation has some good games but certainly isn't offering the best value to gamers and that should be the bottom line. Forget copying Game pass. Why not offer better options for their core fan base (better backwards compatibility, lower prices for games, no fees for upgrades, digital games from normal brick and mortar stores, PS4 controller support for PS5 games on PS5 and so on). Do those things and then we can talk about how PlayStation can do it all.
 

yurinka

Member
Good points, but I was mostly talking about Sony from a first party perspective. I would like to see Sony get a few more first party Japanese developers and back them with a bigger budget and marketing.

I guess when Sony says Japan is still very important to them, yet to my knowledge they don’t invest into any major Japanese games or studios, but rely on timed third party games that seems strange to me. Like you said though, Sony knows they typically get majority of the Japanese third games anyway, so they may not see building Japanese first parties as being a top priority or worth investing into because of third parties.
When Sony says Japan is very important for them, more than thinking about their potential sales on this country (which is only ~8% of their global sales), I think they mean about the potential worldwide sales of Japanese publishers and developers.

3rd party Japanese teams see PS as (outside mobile) the platform where they get the biggest amount of money worldwide. Think that there are over 1700M games sold for PS4 until the PS5 launch (and PS has 111 MAU) vs 766M on Switch (being a good % of them 1st party). In the past many of these Japanese devs had a big focus on games targeted for Japan only, but seeing that Japanese market has been shifting to mobile the console focused devs started to shift to focus more in games with a global appeal. So they see Sony and PC as their main allies, because they give them the biggest market share.

Sony has their own two Japanese internal development teams, their Japanese 2nd party team who publishes games from Japanese teams like Kojipro or From Soft, and they sign many 3rd party exclusives (which means to invest money, most of these exclusives aren't free) with basically any 3rd party company, because knows there's potential in teams like Square Enix, Capcom, ARC System Works, Sega, Kadokawa and so on.

So why to pay them for 3rd party exclusives instead of acquiring them? Well, for many reasons:
  1. Because it's cheaper and less risky for Sony
  2. Because they'll anyways continue supporting PS if not acquired
  3. Because until recently it wasn't normal to see platform holders acquiring publishers so they are not used to
  4. Because AAA games are so expensive, so the 3rd parties need to make their games multiplatform to have enough revenue so prefer to don't be exclusive or if exclusive prefer a timed exclusive or a timed console exclusive
  5. Because many Japanese publishers or devs often are also involved in business where Sony isn't interested like pachinko, pachislo, resorts, arcades/amusement centers, gyms or stuff like that
  6. Because Sony is interested to grow in certain areas where these companies may not excel (huge MP games, huge GaaS games, eSports, PC, VR, mobile, Asia, IPs movies/tv shows and anime)
  7. Because these companies may not excel in some top genre or niche that may be key for them in the future (a top genre seller on PS, eSports, VR or content for Spartacus...) and that don't have already properly covered -doesn't matter if via 1st, 2nd or 3rd party-, or that they may think their direct competition (MS) is starting to dominate (as could be MS with FPS)
  8. Because they may be too expensive for their currently available acquisitions budget (Nintendo, Bandai Namco, CyberAgent, maybe Square Enix or even Konami and Capcom) of ~$10B where we should remove the part to non-gaming stuff (which for the other ~8B spent were the 60% of the budget)
  9. Because they may be interested but they think they must invest before in more prioritary stuff before
  10. Maybe they want to close and integrate recently acquired companies before continue acquiring more (to avoid issues with regulators), but I think it isn't the case
  11. (The most important one) Because these companies may not want or need to be acquired
  12. Because these companies may be open to sell it but may be now in a good finantial position and in a grow path so they would prefer to wait to sell it later, at a way more expensive price
Sony is also growing their three Japanese teams in the same way they are growing all their other internal teams. Plus Jimbo said that they expect to have more exclusives for PS5 than for their previous consoles (and these exclusives include Japanese ones, so they may increase too) and that they are strenghtening bonds with Japanese devs or publishers (recent the deal with Kadokawa/Square/ARC exclusives may be part of them, or who knows if upcoming acquisitions).

I think that if they have the opportunity to acquire a publisher or two like Square Enix, Capcom, Bandai Namco, Sega, Kadokawa or a dev or two like ARC Systems, FromSoft or Kojipro and have enough budget they will do it. Some of them would give them or increase the leadership, or at least to position them as a key player in several genres. Some of them would give them great IPs for potential future big seller AAA games, or small ones that would be a perfect fit for short gameplay sessions (like arcade games for VR or Spartacus), other ones with potential to use in movies, tv shows or anime, other ones would excel at adaptting anime IPs for videogames, some of them would give them a great a good presence in mobile or PC, etc.
 
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John Wick

Member
I agree with Jeff on this. I actually have been saying exactly this for some time now.

The synergy that Jim Ryan is creating b/w different parts of the business will make his a super successful tenure. Late PC ports won't affect PlayStation console sales too much. Movie adaptations will bring in new people to the ecosystem that would more than offset the cost. They are making 10 live service games. Even if 2 out of 10 are successful, they can add $1 billion additional profit.

I can see PlayStation's operating FY profit jump up to $6 billion or even $7 billion in the next 4-5 years.
This is the tip of the iceberg. Sony have been very slow to synergies their various divisions. Sometimes downright stupid. They should have had gaming TV's ready years ago. Same with PS phones. Mobile games? Toys and merchandise for their various IP. Their is massive potential for growth. But they need to invest software programmers for their various divisions because they are too slow to roll out latest updates and functions for their devices. They should unify their products under one software etc.
 

yurinka

Member
This is the tip of the iceberg. Sony have been very slow to synergies their various divisions. Sometimes downright stupid. They should have had gaming TV's ready years ago. Same with PS phones. Mobile games? Toys and merchandise for their various IP. Their is massive potential for growth. But they need to invest software programmers for their various divisions because they are too slow to roll out latest updates and functions for their devices. They should unify their products under one software etc.
Yep, they have a lot potential for synergies and growth, and seems they are already targeting and working on some of these areas:
-Movies, tv shows and anime of gaming IPs
-Mobile games using their gaming IPs
-Gaming adaptations of some IPs from cinema, tv shows and anime with a good fit
-Sony Music artists or songs featured in games
-Gaming tvs and PC displays
-Gaming headphones and earbuds
-Gaming phones and tablets
-Ds-like, joycon-like attachable controller for phones and tablets (they have some related patent, may have it under development)
-A single -maybe multi tiered- Netflix like subscription including all their cinema, tv shows, anime and music content
-A dedicated division dedicated to merchandising (toys, clothing, books, comics...) of their brand, gaming IPs, music IPs and musicians
 
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Menzies

Member
Businesses and services have found a way to raise capital with investors for a long time with loss-leading growth phases. Facebook, Netflix, YouTube etc. Am I supposed to feel guilty now when businesses have found a way to successfully monetize a business-model that increases accessibility with larger user counts and lowers individual costs? This industry has always had a shared economy - your $60 doesn't pay for the cost of the game either. If Netflix can find capital then I'm sure Sony can as well.

GamePass to me has always been the promotional item at the supermarket. It's the hook that draws you in. When you're there they know you're going to spend money on additional things and it makes it work. GamePass doesn't have to be profitable siloed, Xbox does. It may eventually get there as an added bonus with critical mass numbers.
 
Holy hell some of you are in denial.

Sustainable does not in any way shape or form mean profitable. It means you can keep it alive.

If Game Pass was profitable Microsoft would be screaming it from the rooftops. Screaming. But you have chowderheads like Aaron Greenberg who flat out say it's not, and MS reporters like Tom Warren also stating it's not. If Greenberg isn't even willing to bend the truth about it and he says its not a profit play ... you can believe that.

But you, Bernd Lauert, know that it is because Spencer, a guy who never shuts up, said the phrase "its very sustainable." What that means is that MS is willing to subsidize it no problem. The key word in business is profitable. They will say that when they can.

But let me ask you this ... do you know what it costs to support these studios? These purchases the MS crowd are so enthusiastic about have running costs and they are extremely expensive. Game Pass is going to become a GaaS/MTX platform at the current rate. And that's fine honestly. But you aren't going to get the kinds of games that Nintendo and Sony deliver on a regular basis because the need to cover your costs with less money means a different model will be necessary. I mean come on, they are about to spend nearly 70 billion dollars, cash, on a company that pulls in around 5 billion revenue a year, where it's biggest series is on the decline. A company that had such little vision for itself, it shopped itself around to find a buyer and MS was the only willing participant! Somehow these massive new studio costs, and removing the need to buy these games on the Xbox platform, combined with MS' noted ability to manage studios and Activision's internal issues is going to result in some new force in the industry? Again, think and use your brains. I will be happy to be wrong, but we've seen stuff like this before. Repeatedly.

We are at 25 million GP users thus far, correct? Look at the complaints for this months games, and people saying they are going to quit the service potentially if output doesn't improve on this very board. I spent one dollar for three years. People are constantly telling others on here how to get multiple years for the price of one month if you've already done that deal. How many people in that number are from a trial over the holidays? Point is they are obviously not raking in cash monthly with this, and it's not this utopia service everyone is thrilled with and will keep forever. Yes of course some people are paying monthly but I bet the numbers in that sense are a lot lower than people think. Which is why it's ... "sustainable!" So again, why does Sony need to scramble on this? I just spent 45 bucks on Sifu and 80 on HFW. I am almost surely going to get GT7 even though I'm not that into racers, but it looks cool to me so I'll get it. That's in the span of less than four weeks that I've spent 200 dollars on PS software. I'm going to buy a bunch of Switch games this year too. How is that not execution excellence on their part? I would have bought Starfield on XSX this year had I not gotten access to it, and absolutely everything else they make, for a buck. What other games does MS even have on that scale for the rest of 2022? Which company sounds the "least smart" in this described scenario? You're saying Sony and Nintendo need to find a way to combat that? 🤷‍♂️

I don't get the MS only crowd on this board, and it's like 5 or 6 people that send everything off the rails, without fail. Go buy some other platforms. Learn that it's ok to think these companies aren't perfect. I can think of plenty of things I think Sony or Nintendo could be doing better, because I'm not into these companies that way. But those two fan bases don't seem to have a cabal of users that jump into every thread to defend every move those companies make no matter which direction those moves are in! I see plenty Sony focused people on this board constantly criticizing what the company is doing. I have no idea what Nintendo focused people are doing, even though I'm one of them. Maybe we've just been so burned by that company we learned to get over all of this long ago. :pie_thinking:

I just want to talk about what games we are playing and what is fun, and why. Horizon unlocks in less than 12 hours. That's going to be awesome. Sifu is surprisingly good. Mario Kart 8 is going to start getting some new tracks starting next month, and I'm really excited for that. Xenoblade 3 will likely be incredible in September, not to mention all the other great stuff announced for Switch. Halo should be getting patches soon, so hopefully we can do classic co-op with friends again. Starfield in November of course. These are the kinds of things we should be discussing. Not lying about our favorite company because it hurts us to think they might not have brilliant people at the helm, or that they are, *gasp*, losing money . I really don't envy the mods. It's all so exhausting.

Now back to work and that horizon countdown. :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
Totally agree with you, but I can see MS going this "unsustainable" route for a long while. These first 5 to 10 years will be about expansion and eventually you will get their service anywhere, just like Netflix.

I also don't like where Xbox is going with this, I'm pretty sure the service will be filled with junk in the future, but MS is indeed going the Netflix way. But this service is clearly not sustainable (yet).
 

Dr Bass

Member
Totally agree with you, but I can see MS going this "unsustainable" route for a long while. These first 5 to 10 years will be about expansion and eventually you will get their service anywhere, just like Netflix.

I also don't like where Xbox is going with this, I'm pretty sure the service will be filled with junk in the future, but MS is indeed going the Netflix way. But this service is clearly not sustainable (yet).
MS can definitely sustain it indefinitely. It might even become profitable in conjunction with MTX, but then that doesn't really end up giving gamers a good deal if you have to pay for content inside games. But that seems like clearly the direction they want to move in.
 
MS can definitely sustain it indefinitely. It might even become profitable in conjunction with MTX, but then that doesn't really end up giving gamers a good deal if you have to pay for content inside games. But that seems like clearly the direction they want to move in.
Clearly. I think they might have one or two games, focused more on Single-player with reduced number of MTX. But yeah, GaaS will be their bread and butter moving forward (and Sony too, let's not forget).
 

Dr Bass

Member
Clearly. I think they might have one or two games, focused more on Single-player with reduced number of MTX. But yeah, GaaS will be their bread and butter moving forward (and Sony too, let's not forget).
Sure, Sony will have GaaS games. But I also think they will continue to have plenty of single player games. I think crafting high quality gaming experiences is deep in their DNA, and right now, I don't think MS has that. I think the people that founded the Xbox division had it, but has since been taken over by MBAs and bean counters that don't know what a great game can actually mean to a person. I could be wrong, but their products certainly haven't reflected them having anyone like that since the 360 days.
 
Sure, Sony will have GaaS games. But I also think they will continue to have plenty of single player games. I think crafting high quality gaming experiences is deep in their DNA, and right now, I don't think MS has that. I think the people that founded the Xbox division had it, but has since been taken over by MBAs and bean counters that don't know what a great game can actually mean to a person. I could be wrong, but their products certainly haven't reflected them having anyone like that since the 360 days.
Basically yeah. That's why I gave up on Xbox. They have my favourite franchise (Halo) but I really don't like the way they are going with this. But Sony will strongly focus on GaaS, with a couple of single-player games coming out every year, but that's pretty much it.

Nintendo will probably be the most traditional of the 3. It works for them and they certainly can't sustain any type of GaaS right now.
 

John Wick

Member
An entire wall of text based on the false premise that Gamepass is losing money, when the CEO of Microsoft gaming said the exact opposite. Copium.
No Gamepass is so profitable it paid for the acquisition of Zenimax and AB. Am I doing it right? MS insiders have already stated it's losing money. It's quite obvious by using common sense that it's losing money. If it was soo profitable MS would have shared the information a long time ago.
Let's put it this way if Xbox didn't have MS money to help them they would have disappeared a long time ago. That's how profitable GP is.
 
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Klayzer

Member
No Gamepass is so profitable it paid for the acquisition of Zenimax and AB. Am I doing it right? MS insiders have already stated it's losing money. It's quite obvious by using common sense that it's losing money. If it was soo profitable MS would have shared the information a long time ago.
Let's put it this way if Xbox didn't have MS money to help them they would have disappeared a long time ago. That's how profitable GP is.
Xbox fanatics act like you're insulting a family member when you bring up Gamespass current profitability. People are going to discuss its pros and cons, regardless of how much they want to deflect any criticism.
 
No Gamepass is so profitable it paid for the acquisition of Zenimax and AB. Am I doing it right?
That's not how accounting works. Gamepass didn't buy Zenimax and AB.
MS insiders have already stated it's losing money.
You trust people who don't know anything and are just speculating over the CEO of Microsoft gaming, who knows the exact numbers and is legally liable if he lies to investors. That's called coping
It's quite obvious by using common sense that it's losing money.
No, it's not. "Common sense" isn't an argument anyway.
If it was soo profitable MS would have shared the information a long time ago.
Why would they? They don't share profits of any of their subdivisions, even the extremely profitable ones like Office and Azure.
Let's put it this way if Xbox didn't have MS money to help them they would have disappeared a long time ago. That's how profitable GP is.
While what you say is true, it has nothing to do with Gamepass.
 

TT2k17

Banned
This forum really has a reading problem.

MarioKartDLC 25bucks. And people think it's per 8 tracks...

Playstaionn is talked about and people talk about Sony instead.
Playstation is part of Sony. It is not Sony.

It's like saying "yeah I love how Oculus let's me add friends on Facebook. Instagram makes great VR headset."
 

Helghan

Member
But let me ask you this ... do you know what it costs to support these studios? These purchases the MS crowd are so enthusiastic about have running costs and they are extremely expensive. Game Pass is going to become a GaaS/MTX platform at the current rate. And that's fine honestly. But you aren't going to get the kinds of games that Nintendo and Sony deliver on a regular basis because the need to cover your costs with less money means a different model will be necessary.
Why? The games Microsoft currently has in their pipeline from their own studios aren't GaaS. Unless you mean that from the moment a game has a MP component where you can buy something, this automatically turns the whole game into GaaS/MTX. I would always exclude that in case there's also a SP experience without MTX.
 
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