• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Vegetarian |OT| of live and let live

Status
Not open for further replies.



This is the official Thread for everything related to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle.
The main reason for this thread is constructive discussion and sharing experiences. It is also to help people understanding and embracing vegetarian lifestyle.

There are RULES

• No snarky remarks or pictures- an example would be
Tim-E said:
I think I'm going to have steak tonight.

• Please don’t use stereotypes in your discussion. There is no typical vegetarian. Or typical carnivore. Everyone has their own reasons for choosing a diet.
• Try to understand other people’s thoughts! That should be crucial for every discussion but most seem to forget that when this topic comes to the table.
• Please keep the discussion as unbiased as possible. If you are related to meat-production or are part of radical vegetarian/vegan groups, you may refrain from posting your propaganda in this thread.








Morals

There are several reasons for becoming vegetarian. The most obvious one everyone can relate to immediately is probably a conflict of one’s lifestyle and morals / ethics.
Some think anti-speciesistic which means that they don’t think Human have the right to domesticate animals in any way since they have the same right of freedom as every human being.

Some just cannot stand the fact that animals get killed for one’s own pleasure even though people are intelligent enough to chose a diet that does not include killing animals. Often people watch shocking videos that show the most horrible way of livestock animals getting tortured and having only limited space for moving without having ever seen daylight or felt fresh air. Those circumstances, even though the torturing may not be the standard, let people think about their meat intake and start living the vegetarian lifestyle.

Many vegans take that thinking to the next level and think about the cows giving milk till they bleed or the male chickens that get exterminated because they cannot produce eggs. There are plenty of reasons of becoming vegan. They are often laughed at but this place is a great discussion to discuss their decision and their diet.



Ecology and Economy
The livestock sector is one of the worst environmental hazards of our time. It accounts for about 20 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, which is more than from transportation. Cattle Farming is the most important factor in the deforestation of the Amazon, as space is cleared for pastures and the cultivation of soy for animal feed that is not comparable to the soy needs of soy milk production.
The meat industry also produces high amounts of ammonia causing acidification. It’s also the largest source of water pollution due to nitrogen and phosphorus. Finally, there is the dramatic problem of overfishing which may be the biggest single threat to the marine ecosystems.
It takes also takes 78 calories of fossil fuel to produce 1 calorie of beef protein; 35 calories for 1 calorie of pork; 22 calories for 1 of poultry. Comparable proteins from plants need just one calorie of fuel for one calorie of protein. It takes 3 to 15 times as much water to produce animal protein as it does plant protein.
As of 2006, forty calories of fossil fuel energy go into every calorie of U.S. feed lot beef (manufacture, transport and storage included). By comparison, a calorie of plant-based protein only requires 2.2 calories of fossil fuel. If the population of the United States went meatless every Monday for a year, 12 billion gallons of gasoline would be saved.

All in all you can say that 20 vegetarians can live off the land required by one eat meater.



Meatless Monday

Not everyone is willing to give up meat completely. The idea is to reduce meat-intake of the masses in at least a minimal “effort” while achieving important results.



According to the United Nations’ Food and Agriculture Organization the meat industry generates nearly one half of the man-made greenhouse gas emissions that lead to climate change. Geophysicists at the Bard Center and the University of Chicago estimate that curbing meat consumption by 20% (which could be achieved through Meatless Mondays) would lower greenhouse gas emissions as dramatically as every American switching to an ultra-efficient hybrid vehicle.

Research shows that Monday is the very best time for people to start and sustain behavior change. Considering that many people use the weekends as an excuse to eat anything they want, on Monday they have the choice to do "right" to their bodies and eat healthy meals instead of continuing to eat unhealthy meals.

And this is something everyone can do.

You don’t have to give up on meat. But you can do your best to think about what would happen if you would reduce your meat-intake. In the 70s people laughed at vegetarians, today a tenth of the population is vegetarian and contributes to a good cause. For vegetarians one day without meat seems ridiculous but it is a start in a society that is strangely dependant on meat.






On average Americans consume 8 ounces of meat per day, 45% more than the USDA recommends. Meat typically contains higher levels of saturated fat than plant based foods Saturated fat intake has been linked to multiple preventable illnesses, including heart disease, stroke, diabetes and various cancers.

A ten year longitudinal study has also linked rates of personal meat consumption to age of death. The results of this research suggest that the deaths of 1.5 million Americans over a ten year period can be attributed to excessive consumption of red and processed meats.

Chronic preventable illnesses—including those associated with excessive saturated fat intake—cause 70% of all deaths in the United States. In 2007 alone Americans spent 1.7 trillion dollars on health care related to preventable illnesses.


Many skeptics are afraid that a vegetarian diet may be too one sided and would lack proteins. But there are plenty of vegetarian alternatives to meat that help creating a healthy and rich diet. The most common supplement is of course soy, as it is usable in many different ways but there are some concerns regarding it’s ecological worth.

Here are some options that you have for getting the protein, sticking to your vegetarian diet and not having to eat soy:

• Wheat grains. Wheat grains are very high in protein and serve as the best non-soy alternative for vegetarians. Vegetarian breads made without dairy will work for vegans as well.
• Protein-rich vegetables. If you choose your vegetables wisely and prepare them healthfully (eating them raw or steamed lightly), they can be a terrific source of protein. The vegetables you'll want to stock up on for protein purposes include leeks, parsley, chives, and red and green peppers.

Many more here and here



Recipes

This is the heart and soul of this thread. Vegetarian lifestyle is fun, when you know how to cook and what you like. Here are a few easy recipes I found on the internet and cooked myself in one or another fashion, so I think I share them here. More in-depth ideas and own recipes, when this thread attracts enough people. I invite Cooking GAF and its leader Onkel C to join this thread and let us hear about their vegetarian ideas.

Click the images to get to the recipe!





Cheesy Baked Cauliflower http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Cheesy-Baked-Cauliflower/Detail.aspx

Vegetarian Stuffed Peppers: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Vegetarian-Stuffed-Peppers/Detail.aspx

Herby Roasted Potato Wedged: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Herby-Roasted-Potato-Wedges/Detail.aspx

Puffs: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Puffs-2/Detail.aspx

Harvest Salad: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Harvest-Salad/Detail.aspx



This part is in the thread because I wanted to show videos about vegetarian lifestyle and reasons for it. I especially recommend our daily bread since it has no commentary or soundtrack or clever editing that tries to make things worse or better. Please do not discuss the validity of these videos. Most of these are made by activists who try to spread their agenda, but I felt it was necessary to at least have some of the shock-value videos here to show what can be the reality in meat production. I realize these videos are biased and will probably stir up some bad reactions of people trying to question their validity, but again, please don’t discuss that in this topic.

Our Daily Bread:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/e4fHRm4aQC0/

A 92-minutes film without commentary, focusing on showing the agriculture in different European countries.

We Feed The World:
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/technology/watch/v14503242qtatgM6w

Displays the wasteful reality of our modern food distribution, the disgusting treatment of food, both living and not-living, as well as the absurdity of how food is produced.

Earthlings:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142#

PETA-distributed film with shocking insights on some parts of the food industry.

Food Inc.:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/5rakrMlDCUs/

A movie specially about the American food industry.




PS.

Recent studies show that bacon is the main reason for vegetarians to have a guilty pleasure, or to give up on the vegetarian lifestyle altogether.
I have not tried it yet but I plan to get it soon:

( www.baconsalt.com )
It is a vegetarian salt that is supposed to give everything the taste of bacon. Sounds delicious to me and blogs all over the internet seem to love it.
Maybe this is a great way to overcome that hurdle.

I hope I didn't forget anything I wanted to post here.

Thanks to scotchegzz for creating the banner and headers.
 
Awesome! I've only been a vegetarian for a little over a month so please share recipes.

EDIT: Btw. That pepper dish in the OP, at the top right, links to a cauliflower recipe.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
I'm totally the opposite of vegetarian, but I wish you all well.

One thing that may help you are specific digestive enzymes. They are hard to find, but you can buy phytase and other enzymes the human body doesn't make to handle the harsh aspects of grain/legume/soy digestion. "Digest Gold" has phytase.
 
ChocolateCupcakes said:
Awesome! I've only been a vegetarian for a little over a month so please share recipes.

EDIT: Btw. That pepper dish in the OP, at the top right, links to a cauliflower recipe.

fixed
 

scotcheggz

Member
Great thread, that bacon salt sounds disgusting, but I'd love to give it a go!

I've been a vege about 10 years or so. When I first turned veg, I was a student and couldn't really afford to buy decent meat, I started looking at the backs of the cheap meat packets of sausages etc. And decided I would rather eat no meat than those things.

These days I suppose I'm a vegetarian for more moral reasons. I realised you can live happily and healthily without having to kill something for a tasty meal. So that's pretty much where I stand now. I don't criticise anyone for eating meat and in fact live with my gf who is a devout meat eater and being from Japan, had a hard time at first getting to grips with what a vegetarian was, due to the food culture there. Anyway, what I'm saying is that vegetarianism is my choice, if you eat meat, that's your choice, that's cool. I'm not a PETA type and I'm not going to preach, so I hope we can all get along in this thread, vegetarians and carnivores alike.

I suppose if I was to have any issues about this kind of thing, I would say it annoys me when kids aren't taught where food comes from. The fast food kids etc. I sort of feel like if you're going to eat it, you should know what it was so you can grow up giving food the correct respect, but to be honest I'd probably feel the same way if I wasn't a vegetarian. I dunno.

Anyways, thats me. I'll type up my recipe for lemon linguine and chick pea curry in a moment. Looking forward to reading some new cooking ideas!
 
Shanadeus said:
Just have a couple of questions for those that vegetarians out of moral reasons (which I consider myself to be):

What do you think about eating insects, jelly fishes and other animals which have a non-existing neural system to one with no proper awareness of any pain?
I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it sound. It is an interesting point and I think there are good arguments for eating bivalves, but I err on the safe side here.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Even as a meat eater, this thread is relevant to my interests. With Lent coming up, I'm looking to challenge myself to eat vegetarian two days as week and the recipes here will come in handy.
 

scotcheggz

Member
This is a recipe for summer really, bit salady but it's starting to warm up so here goes:

LEMON LINGUINE

1 Packet of Linguine, 500g
3 lemons
Olive Oil
Parmesan Cheese
Salt
Pepper
Fresh basil
Rocket

Cook the pasta.

Whilst its simmering, juice the three lemons and grate the zest off one of them. Mix up the juice, zest and olive oil and then grate some parmesan and mix that into it until it goes a bit creamy. Put in some salt and pepper, try it and add bits of whatever you want some more of if you think it needs it.

Drain the pasta, chuck the lemony mash up all over it and give it a bit of a shake to coat the pasta well. Chop up the basil and rocket and chuck that in. Serve.
 
I'm a meat devourer but that meatless monday seemslike a good idea. It's a twisted thing: one the one hand I love animals and would never kill one...On the other hand I love eating meat just as much. One day off could be good for me.
 
_dementia said:
what do you call those "vegetarians" that also east seafood? Would such a person be welcome here?

pesco-vegetarian or pescetarian. of course, even meat eaters are welcome here, as long as nobody shits on the thread, this is a thread for everyone
 

NotWii

Banned
I'm mainly vegetarian, been so for a number of years now
Vegetables taste awesome when I cook them
I eat meat occasionally like once a week, or once a month
 

peakish

Member
I've been thinking about adding more vegetarian meals in my diet so I'll be following this thread for inspiration and recipes. Nice job with the op!
 

scotcheggz

Member
Wii said:
I'm mainly vegetarian, been so for a number of years now
Vegetables taste awesome when I cook them
I eat meat occasionally like once a week, or once a month

Serious question, how do you do this? I've heard stories of vegetarians eating meat and then becoming quite ill. One theory is that their stomach isn't used to it and I've read other theories such as it all being in your mind and you can't stand the idea of eating meat and you have to deprogram your brain in a way. I'd buy this, since if I go to the meat aisle in a supermarket these days, I don't really see the meat as food anymore. A friend of mine is moving to Japan and is going to a hypnotherapist because he thinks it will be easier for him to begin eating meat again, rather than being a vegetarian in Japan, which honestly, is probably true.

Not really in the spirit of the thread, but I'd be interested in hearing from ex-veggies about is kind of stuff.
 

trilobyte

Member
Awesome thread :) I've been vegetarian for over 2 years.

I've been experimenting with American-style food for a little bit now (most of my dishes I have done have been Asian-based).

I made veggie-dogs the other day (recipe from one of my fav sites): VeganDad


Was totally easy and yummy :)

I'm actually lacto-veggie (no meat, no eggs, dairy allowed). I've been playing with a lot of eggless baking over the last year too :)
 
scotcheggz said:
Serious question, how do you do this? I've heard stories of vegetarians eating meat and then becoming quite ill. One theory is that their stomach isn't used to it and I've read other theories such as it all being in your mind and you can't stand the idea of eating meat and you have to deprogram your brain in a way. I'd buy this, since if I go to the meat aisle in a supermarket these days, I don't really see the meat as food anymore. A friend of mine is moving to Japan and is going to a hypnotherapist because he thinks it will be easier for him to begin eating meat again, rather than being a vegetarian in Japan, which honestly, is probably true.

Not really in the spirit of the thread, but I'd be interested in hearing from ex-veggies about is kind of stuff.
Yeah I don't know how you could reduce your meat intake that low but not stop completely.

Also being a veggie in Japan is absolutely awful.
 
trilobyte said:
Awesome thread :) I've been vegetarian for over 2 years now.

I've been experimenting with American-style food for a little bit now (most of my dishes I have done have been Asian-based).

I made veggie-dogs the other day (recipe from one of my fav sites: VeganDad
http://tinyurl.com/48nsx7a[/im]

Was totally easy and yummy :)

I'm actually lacto-veggie (no meat, no eggs, dairy allowed). I've been playing with a lot of eggless baking over the last year too :)[/QUOTE]

I think lacto-veggie is the next step for me. but: what about pasta or stuff like that where sometimes egg is in it. do you avoid that too? or products with egg-protein-powder
 

scotcheggz

Member
The Friendly Monster said:
Yeah I don't know how you could reduce your meat intake that low but not stop completely.

Also being a veggie in Japan is absolutely awful.

Yeah, am I right in thinking you're in Japan now? How do you do it? When I'm there it's never that long anymore, so it's bearable, but you have to be so careful with dashi etc. Eating out is essentially a no-go. I always thought a good vegetarian restaurant in Tokyo would be an awesome niche!
 

Kraftwerk

Member
Awesome Thread :)

I have been a vegan for almost 2 years now, and love it.

I had gained a lot of weight, and wasn't living a healthy life AT ALL. I woke up one morning, went to the fridge. I had the fridge door open for 5 minutes while i was thinking. in the end i said 'FUCK IT, VEGAN' really loud and slammed the fridge door.

I have been a vegan since then ;p
 
scotcheggz said:
Yeah, am I right in thinking you're in Japan now? How do you do it? When I'm there it's never that long anymore, so it's bearable, but you have to be so careful with dashi etc. Eating out is essentially a no-go. I always thought a good vegetarian restaurant in Tokyo would be an awesome niche!
No, I'm in the UK. Only spent a month in Japan and I had the worst diet of my life there, also probably accidentally slipped up there multiple times.
 

ngower

Member
It's really easy at my school, we've got a solely vegan cafe that's under the meal plan in addition to the normal dining hall.

It's really hard to keep it up over breaks, don't have the money to keep my nutrition up. Just curious how you poor vegetarians keep it up?
 
I've been thinking about ways to adjust my eating habits recently, and this thread made me think I might give vegetarianism a try (though I'm not against meat-eating at all). I'll at least try the "Meatless Monday" thing. Not sure if I have the willpower to keep it up, though. :p
 
ngower said:
It's really easy at my school, we've got a solely vegan cafe that's under the meal plan in addition to the normal dining hall.

It's really hard to keep it up over breaks, don't have the money to keep my nutrition up. Just curious how you poor vegetarians keep it up?
Nutrition isn't a problem for me. I understand it can be for vegans, but I get plenty of protein from eggs and cheese.

I also don't see how a vegetarian diet can be prohibitively expensive. Meat is far more costly than veggies.
 

ngower

Member
It's just eating things like Kale, Quinoa, etc that are "superfoods" can get pricey. I am pretty big (6'3, 185-195) and so I've got to eat pretty large meals to begin with. It's not so much that it's obscenely expensive, but considering the prices of meat and the like compared to the prices of fruit, vegetables, etc, a veg's shopping list can be pretty bad.
 
Blue Ninja said:
I've been thinking about ways to adjust my eating habits recently, and this thread made me think I might give vegetarianism a try (though I'm not against meat-eating at all). I'll at least try the "Meatless Monday" thing. Not sure if I have the willpower to keep it up, though. :p

i started out with the meatleass monday and loved it, because i basically never ate veggies at all. after some time i just lost interest in meat alltogether, because I knew about the cruelty in the production (but was always like "nah, thats propaganda"). our daily bread pushed me over the edge to say "thats it, no more meat. and if i cant keeep it up, i try to eat local stuff that had the best life. at most once a week.
But as most others have said you really lose the urge to eat meat and feel great with your diet.

but i think not everyone has to be as radical, just reducing your meat-intake is a great way to start and contributes to a good cause
 
Great thread. I'll post some of my favorite recipes when I have time, but here is a quick one for the time being. It was my first concoction when I started out as a vegetarian, and still a favorite among my friends (even the staunchly pro-meat friends).

Easy Burritos

Tortillas
Black Beans
Rice (I prefer brown, but white is fine)
Guacamole
Salsa (your favorite brand, hot is better)
Sour Cream

Cook the rice ahead of time, it makes things faster. Heat the black beans, and mix them with the rice. Add the sour cream, guac, and salsa. I don't really have any exact measurements, but there should be a lot of beans and rice, with just a dollop of the other stuff. Wrap the mixture in a tortilla and enjoy. This ingredient combo makes a freaking delicious burrito.

Also, for anyone interested in knowing more about the motivations for vegetarianism, and wanting a fair and logical representation of both sides of the argument, check out this book:


It is pro-veg, but it presents the opinions of a wide range of interesting people in the industry. Definitely worth a read, no matter what your preferred diet includes.
 

Fabiollo

Member
I'm not vegetarian or vegan, because I believe (and feel) that an omnivorous diet is what's best for me. I'm fascinated by the concept of "meatless monday", though.

I have lots and lots of meatless days: I'd say I eat red meat once a week, white meat once a week, fish once a week. I seldom eat eggs/salami. Sometimes I eat cheese. The rest of it is vegetables and fruit, which I'd say make up for al least 50% of what I eat. I can't imagine eating meat every day: not for ethics, but for health. How can you want a steak the day after you had a big burger?

I usually don't enter discussions about diets, but this really caught my eye. I'd rather be vegetarian than eat meat every day.
 
ngower said:
It's just eating things like Kale, Quinoa, etc that are "superfoods" can get pricey. I am pretty big (6'3, 185-195) and so I've got to eat pretty large meals to begin with. It's not so much that it's obscenely expensive, but considering the prices of meat and the like compared to the prices of fruit, vegetables, etc, a veg's shopping list can be pretty bad.
My opinion, but I think "superfood" is just a marketing term. There's no need to be eating exotic foods just for nutrition's sake.

If you shop at the supermarket look for veg that are on offer. Not only are they cheaper they are more likely to be in season and so tastier.
 
Earl Cazone said:
Meat typically contains higher levels of saturated fat than plant based foods Saturated fat intake has been linked to multiple preventable illnesses, including heart disease, stroke, diabetes and various cancers.

*sigh*
 

entremet

Member
Not a vegetarian, but I have an interest in vegetarian cooking. I wholeheartedly recommend the following cookbook.

 
If this is an all-encompassing vegetarian thread, why not include information on the potential issues of the vegetarian/vegan diet? If you're going to include the (mostly rubbish) references to the health issues relating to eating meat, it might be best to include the health risks associated with a zero-meat diet, especially considering many people will look to this thread for potential guidance.

I'm not attempting to troll, and although I personally believe that 1 in 10 statistic is utter nonsense, I commend you on the thread and the effort put in. Godspeed.
 

Kraftwerk

Member
3ur4zn said:
If this is an all-encompassing vegetarian thread, why not include information on the potential issues of the vegetarian/vegan diet? If you're going to include the (mostly rubbish) references to the health issues relating to eating meat, it might be best to include the health risks associated with a zero-meat diet, especially considering many people will look to this thread for potential guidance.

I'm not attempting to troll, and although I personally believe that 1 in 10 statistic is utter nonsense, I commend you on the thread and the effort put in. Godspeed.



You have been foiled, good sir!
 

NotWii

Banned
scotcheggz said:
Serious question, how do you do this? I've heard stories of vegetarians eating meat and then becoming quite ill. One theory is that their stomach isn't used to it and I've read other theories such as it all being in your mind and you can't stand the idea of eating meat and you have to deprogram your brain in a way. I'd buy this, since if I go to the meat aisle in a supermarket these days, I don't really see the meat as food anymore. A friend of mine is moving to Japan and is going to a hypnotherapist because he thinks it will be easier for him to begin eating meat again, rather than being a vegetarian in Japan, which honestly, is probably true.
Sometimes I get stomach aches from meat dishes that other people eat without issue, but sometimes when I eat meat dishes, there's no problem, I dunno *shrug*
I think my stomach is more sensitive to the quality of the meat, and affected by timing (how long I go without meat) determining how well my stomach handles meat when I eat it

The Friendly Monster said:
Yeah I don't know how you could reduce your meat intake that low but not stop completely.
When you're offered a meal, sometimes you can't turn it down
I don't hate meat, but I just prefer vegetables
 
3ur4zn said:
If this is an all-encompassing vegetarian thread, why not include information on the potential issues of the vegetarian/vegan diet? If you're going to include the (mostly rubbish) references to the health issues relating to eating meat, it might be best to include the health risks associated with a zero-meat diet, especially considering many people will look to this thread for potential guidance.

I'm not attempting to troll, and although I personally believe that 1 in 10 statistic is utter nonsense, I commend you on the thread and the effort put in. Godspeed.

you have a point. i did not plan to contradict myself in the op, but it is up to you to discuss your concerns in this thread
 
I've been a vegetarian for about 6 years and one recommendation I will make is to avoid most meat-replacement products. They are generally processed crap that is less healthy than what they are meant to replace. Look to other cultures and find new ways to structure meals outside of the standard American protein-vegetable-starch trio.

I'll admit that I have some frozen black bean burgers for those times when I need a quick meal, but eating a Boca burger with fries every night is much worse healthwise than eating a chicken breast with veggies.

Also, buy a slowcooker. Veggie chilis, soups and curries are easy and generally no hassle.
 

trilobyte

Member
Earl Cazone said:
I think lacto-veggie is the next step for me. but: what about pasta or stuff like that where sometimes egg is in it. do you avoid that too? or products with egg-protein-powder

Yeah I generally won't eat things made with egg too (pasta, cookies, etc) If I found out that I've eaten something that was made with egg, I don't cry over it but will avoid it again later.

pasta and desserts are pretty much danger zones so I avoid eating them when I eat out. But at home, I've made some good pasta and baked some great cakes without egg.

It's a little tough, but I've noticed that my cholesterol levels have gone way down over the last two years :)
 

scotcheggz

Member
reggieandTFE said:
Also, buy a slowcooker. Veggie chilis, soups and curries are easy and generally no hassle.

Yes! I picked up a slow cooker from amazon for £30 and the stews and curries I've made in that thing are godly!
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Earl Cazone said:
On average Americans consume 8 ounces of meat per day, 45% more than the USDA recommends. Meat typically contains higher levels of saturated fat than plant based foods Saturated fat intake has been linked to multiple preventable illnesses, including heart disease, stroke, diabetes and various cancers.

A ten year longitudinal study has also linked rates of personal meat consumption to age of death. The results of this research suggest that the deaths of 1.5 million Americans over a ten year period can be attributed to excessive consumption of red and processed meats.

Chronic preventable illnesses—including those associated with excessive saturated fat intake—cause 70% of all deaths in the United States. In 2007 alone Americans spent 1.7 trillion dollars on health care related to preventable illnesses.

This is incorrect.

Not trying to troll, you vegetarians can get stable fats from cream, butter, coconuts, algae, olive, and palm oil.

But, I feel compelled to correct this because the implications of incriminating saturated fat for the diseases of civilization will result in more diseases of civilization.

First to prove that saturated fat is completely safe:

Background: A reduction in dietary saturated fat has generally been thought to improve cardiovascular health.

Objective: The objective of this meta-analysis was to summarize the evidence related to the association of dietary saturated fat with risk of coronary heart disease (CHD), stroke, and cardiovascular disease (CVD; CHD inclusive of stroke) in prospective epidemiologic studies.

Design: Twenty-one studies identified by searching MEDLINE and EMBASE databases and secondary referencing qualified for inclusion in this study. A random-effects model was used to derive composite relative risk estimates for CHD, stroke, and CVD.

Results: During 5–23 y of follow-up of 347,747 subjects, 11,006 developed CHD or stroke. Intake of saturated fat was not associated with an increased risk of CHD, stroke, or CVD. The pooled relative risk estimates that compared extreme quantiles of saturated fat intake were 1.07 (95% CI: 0.96, 1.19; P = 0.22) for CHD, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.62, 1.05; P = 0.11) for stroke, and 1.00 (95% CI: 0.89, 1.11; P = 0.95) for CVD. Consideration of age, sex, and study quality did not change the results.

Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract

Real world examples of traditional cultures eating loads of saturated fats and having nearly 0 cases of heart disease:
1. Masai of Africa. Eat cow, whole milk.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM197104012841304

2. Polynesian islanders eat 60% of their calories from saturated fat from coconuts, low heart disease rates.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/34/8/1552.long

3. Several others, including the Inuit, Eskimos.

4. Modern examples of countries with relatively low rates of heart disease and high saturated fat intake: France, Norway.


Heart disease is probably caused by oxidized LDL.
http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/5/844
http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/CIRCULATIONAHA.104.529297v1

You get oxidized LDL when the lipid structure of LDL is deformed. This occurs when the fats composing LDL are rancid or have poor integrity. Industrialized seed and legume oils are rancid from the get go. To extract the oil, they heat the oil, apply hexane to extract the last bit, and then they bleach & deodorize at the end to mask the rancid oil smell.

Cancer etiology isn't entirely understood, but there isn't controlled studies incriminating meat or saturated fat. There are plenty suggesting that hyperinsulinemia contributes to cancer proliferation, but the root cause is still not entirely understood.

Stroke has nothing to do with cholesterol, except perhaps low cholesterol levels or extremely high cholesterol levels in men only. And as the studies above show with natives, they ate tons of saturated fat and had normal levels of cholesterol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12505230

Diabetes has nothing to do with lipids or protein, except when various things cause the liver to get fatty - which is one cause of type 2 diabetes. But that has to do with fructose, alcohol, or permeable intestinal linings causing the liver to overload on lipids, which shuts down insulin sensitivity. More insulin is needed to overcome the insulin resistance to handle blood sugar until the body is unable to make enough excess insulin == type 2 diabetes.

Again you can use this information and apply it to a vegetarian diet. Not trolling, just trying to help.
 
teh_pwn, he's referencing the standard AMERICAN diet. Not some healthy-as-fuck tribe in Africa. Go outside and count the amount of fat/obese people you see in a day. You'd be surprised.

I'm a vegan but...

 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
the_painted_bird said:
teh_pwn, he's referencing the standard AMERICAN diet. Not some healthy-as-fuck tribe in Africa. Go outside and count the amount of fat/obese people you see in a day. You'd be surprised.

I'm a vegan but...


Did you read my post at all? Your response doesn't make sense. I'm not criticizing the vegetarian diet, or even the vegan diet (you can use coconut, palm).

What does the fat/obesity rate have anything to do with what I said? You can google photos of Americans before 1960 when saturated fat was primarily used. Not many obese people.

Saturated fat intake is considerably down. Data on it here:
http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter2.pdf
 
teh_pwn said:
Did you read my post at all? Your response doesn't make sense. I'm not criticizing the vegetarian diet, or even the vegan diet (you can use coconut, palm).

What does the fat/obesity rate have anything to do with what I said?
You said the amount of meat people consume in a day is false, it's actually surprisingly true. Maybe not for you, but you don't exactly have the evidence to prove that fact is wrong. People do eat meat for every meal, coupled with cheese, and more meat, and more cheese, on top of butter, guzzled down with milk, etc.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
the_painted_bird said:
You said the amount of meat people consume in a day is false, it's actually surprisingly true. Maybe not for you, but you don't exactly have the evidence to prove that fact is wrong. People do eat meat for every meal, coupled with cheese, and more meat, and more cheese, on top of butter, guzzled down with milk, etc.

I'm arguing against saturated fats causing the diseases of civilization.

I'm also stating that there is no controlled evidence that meat causes cancer or heart disease. If that's wrong, give references. But I admit this is a bit irrelevant to the thread. Focus on what I said about saturated fats.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom