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Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2 not launching in 2021, HardSuit labs replaced as the lead developer

Oct 1, 2020
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But I bet we all know why that didn't happen, don't we? Especially after all the evidence of the witnesses' lack of credibility and sudden changes of mind you've chosen to ignore. This isn't a case of someone so ashamed she never spoke up. It's a case of someone who completely changed her mind multiple times politically and about Avellone in particular in a way that allowed her to reinterpret events that happened to put them in a certain light.

This. And even the accuser said it wasn't rape, so don't give her questionable crusade more strength by adding fuel to her bullshit. Twitter doesn't need any more fuel for this, it should be settled by the court definitely one way or the other.

I am not saying that stories of abuse shouldn't be listened to and evaluated, but this one is FAR from that, and it makes me sick, especially after watching that exoneration video and seeing how much the accuser flip-flopped on some truly insane shit.

Avellone's a shitty drunk and should answer for that, but some of these claims are full-on "huh?!" Of the reports, Avellone wasn't even in the country for one of them, one was flirting in an elevator (?), and two claims of supposed harassment were debunked by the same two people making the claims (one of which hid after making an attack and the sole witness she claimed was there was contacted and said it never happened).

The accuser Karissa also seemed to be raging about the relationship with her friend, which Avellone apologized for (and shouldn't have, bad breakups happen all the fucking time, Avellone apologizes for everything like a dummy). She also SET HIM UP with this person, which makes zero sense if you think someone is a predator.

What makes me especially sick is the fact one of these accusers, the Mass Effect Andromeda writer, went on to be a parasite at Hardsuit Labs and replace Mitsoda. Cancel culture is one thing, using it as a weapon to destroy others and then take their job is a whole new level of backstabbery for the industry. Still, seeing Hardsuit fall apart and her clinging to the wreckage is perfect poetic justice.

Anyway, fuck this Twitter and ResetEra noise. If you want to join the parrots nodding their heads to this, go to ResetEra and fuck off from here.
 
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In Your Vase

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Jul 19, 2020
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Avellone was a contractor on the game and there was enough corroborated stories that his behavior was not appropriate.

I noticed you had posted on ResetEra a while ago that you know HSL pretty well, you knew some of the key players (including those fired), and you knew some of the pains of Bloodlines 2 development: Do you know how the team is handling this news? Are they in danger of all losing their jobs now?

When you say 'corroborated,' do you mean the Mass Effect: Andromeda writer Avellone was accused of talking to in the elevator? (While she rescinded her story, but she's the only person at Hardsuit that I can think of "corroborating" the cancelation except for her partner who is also working there, but I don't know how he fits into anything beyond nepotism)
 

matty3092

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As a console player all my life I've only ever saw videos of the first game but goddammit it's a real shame this game is going through problems I would love to play it
 
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This was the game MS showed last year in one of their digital shows right? The one which looked like a 1080p res 360 game?

Looked like crap.
 

element

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Jun 6, 2004
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I noticed you had posted on ResetEra a while ago that you know HSL pretty well, you knew some of the key players (including those fired), and you knew some of the pains of Bloodlines 2 development: Do you know how the team is handling this news? Are they in danger of all losing their jobs now?

When you say 'corroborated,' do you mean the Mass Effect: Andromeda writer Avellone was accused of talking to in the elevator? (While she rescinded her story, but she's the only person at Hardsuit that I can think of "corroborating" the cancelation except for her partner who is also working there, but I don't know how he fits into anything beyond nepotism)
Disappointed by life goes on. The core staff have been working on this since Paradox bought White Wolf in 2015. So that is a lot of heart, sweat and tears put into a project that you don't see to the end and the oddity of not knowing what will change for better or worse in the hands of someone else. HSL has other work and they are focusing on those other projects.

As for Avellone, the text message he sent Jacqui was pretty crazy and have heard from others they have gotten similar type messages at industry events. I've never met the guy and as I said in a previous post, the guy is still working as a consultant which he has been doing since leaving Obsidian. Arkane, Larian, iXile, Subset, Hardsuit, Respawn, Ghost Story, Techland, Wolf Eye were all freelance/contract/consultant jobs. And he will likely continue to get work, but studios probably won't be rolling him out as part of their press promotion.
 
Oct 1, 2020
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Disappointed by life goes on. The core staff have been working on this since Paradox bought White Wolf in 2015. So that is a lot of heart, sweat and tears put into a project that you don't see to the end and the oddity of not knowing what will change for better or worse in the hands of someone else. HSL has other work and they are focusing on those other projects.

As for Avellone, the text message he sent Jacqui was pretty crazy and have heard from others they have gotten similar type messages at industry events. I've never met the guy and as I said in a previous post, the guy is still working as a consultant which he has been doing since leaving Obsidian. Arkane, Larian, iXile, Subset, Hardsuit, Respawn, Ghost Story, Techland, Wolf Eye were all freelance/contract/consultant jobs. And he will likely continue to get work, but studios probably won't be rolling him out as part of their press promotion.
Shame about Paradox and Hardsuit, but it sounds like Hardsuit is moving on and planned for the cancelation (I guess they saw the writing on the wall).

Paradox can probably weather the PR storm, but who knows.

Hopefully, Hardsuit;'ll treat their project and staff more seriously than they did with the sudden firings of Mitsoda and others. I do hope everyone there keeps their jobs, even those I don't have much a positive opinion on based on their social media.

I was curious if the Alexandre Ubisoft guy was literally a hatchet man and appraisal man who passed judgment on the project. I know you probably don't know, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

The text to Jacqui was after years of flirty friends, and in her own words, if anyone hit her up like that, she'd be 50% likely to say yes (yeah, I was surprised by that, too, and isn't something I'd post on social media, but I'm not her).

The fact they remained friends after and worse, she asked him to be his personal trainer and get drunk and party together in Vegas (her words), I don't have much defense for her, but I don't think it was "crazy." I do think the folks categorizing it as a co-worker or industry interaction are dumb as rocks, though (Jacqui was not a co-worker or in the industry, according to facts, they were friends).

I do think if one of the other industry folks who either were in the industry or worked with him had spoken up (if what you're saying is true), that's different, but Jacqui seems like a Clout Queen based on social media. She also seems to hate her own company, or at least its politics, which doesn't make sense why someone would keep working there (there's other opportunities than working with a company that seems to have a long history of sexual harassment).

I'm guessing Avellone is like Mitsoda and would love to be free of the press events, but who knows. He just seems like he wants to write.
 
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Oct 1, 2020
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Disappointed by life goes on. The core staff have been working on this since Paradox bought White Wolf in 2015. So that is a lot of heart, sweat and tears put into a project that you don't see to the end and the oddity of not knowing what will change for better or worse in the hands of someone else. HSL has other work and they are focusing on those other projects.
One other thing - do have any idea if the CEO of Hardsuit recognizes how Hardsuit messed up, or is he clueless?

Granted, some of it may be Paradox (I don't know), but it felt like Hardsuit was the one really missing the mark with deliverables (art, for example).
 

element

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Hopefully, Hardsuit;'ll treat their project and staff more seriously than they did with the sudden firings of Mitsoda and others. I do hope everyone there keeps their jobs, even those I don't have much a positive opinion on based on their social media.

One other thing - do have any idea if the CEO of Hardsuit recognizes how Hardsuit messed up, or is he clueless?

Granted, some of it may be Paradox (I don't know), but it felt like Hardsuit was the one really missing the mark with deliverables (art, for example).
I think there is LOTS to the story not being reported. LOTS.

I personally don't think this is a story of good vs bad, but lots of mistakes from all parties. Paradox, Hardsuit, and Mitsoda/Cluney. What is sad is that people picked favorites, quickly, with little to know knowledge into the actual reasons for the decisions that were made. Mitsoda and by proxy Cluney got a pass because Mitsoda had an cult like following.

But playing devils advocate here on a scenario that is possible. As Lead Writer/Designer, Mitsoda job was to write the framework for the story and dialouge and as Creative Director, Cluney job was to make the game fun with the available resources. The jobs should work in tandem, but the Creative Director should be thinking about how to make it possible and pushing back if the story framework isn't feasible. Using buildings as an example, if the architect (writer) wants to make Burj Khalifa, but the builder (creative director) knows they only can make a 20 story building but isn't pushing back to keep in scope control knowing the budget and available resources, who's fault is that?

I'm guessing Avellone is like Mitsoda and would love to be free of the press events, but who knows. He just seems like he wants to write.
And nothing is stopping either of them from focusing on writing, and honestly that is what Avellone has largely been doing. As I said before Avellone has worked for over a decade as a consultant and has worked on various big and small projects, in and out of games. I'll be totally transparent that I think Avellone like to write far more than Mitsoda, in that Avellone has shown he has written outside of a specific genre, while I get the impression that Mitsoda is picky to the point of complaining about not working because he can't find a job to write about zombies or vampires (look at his work history). Perhaps that is a comfort thing, but Avellone work is pretty diverse, while Mitsoda is still largely riding on his work on VTM1.

Ghost writing can be a very lucrative position or even being a "cleaner" or consultant. It is a tough job as you have to FIND work and be open to content out of your comfort zone. So networking and building relationships is key, a skill that Mitsoda doesn't appear to be comfortable with.
 
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King_Mandu

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The Woke: A SJW Masquerade...oh yeah and there's a trans vampire too! Preorder now!

Bioware, Arkane, Dice, 343 and now this mess. When will the game industry learn that woke shit is destroying creativity and studios?

Lol. As soon as people stop crying like little bitches about it.

The only thing destroying studios and creativity is incompetence and greed.
 
Oct 1, 2020
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I think there is LOTS to the story not being reported. LOTS.

I personally don't think this is a story of good vs bad, but lots of mistakes from all parties. Paradox, Hardsuit, and Mitsoda/Cluney. What is sad is that people picked favorites, quickly, with little to know knowledge into the actual reasons for the decisions that were made. Mitsoda and by proxy Cluney got a pass because Mitsoda had an cult like following.

But playing devils advocate here on a scenario that is possible. As Lead Writer/Designer, Mitsoda job was to write the framework for the story and dialouge and as Creative Director, Cluney job was to make the game fun with the available resources. The jobs should work in tandem, but the Creative Director should be thinking about how to make it possible and pushing back if the story framework isn't feasible. Using buildings as an example, if the architect (writer) wants to make Burj Khalifa, but the builder (creative director) knows they only can make a 20 story building but isn't pushing back to keep in scope control knowing the budget and available resources, who's fault is that?


And nothing is stopping either of them from focusing on writing, and honestly that is what Avellone has largely been doing. As I said before Avellone has worked for over a decade as a consultant and has worked on various big and small projects, in and out of games. I'll be totally transparent that I think Avellone like to write far more than Mitsoda, in that Avellone has shown he has written outside of a specific genre, while I get the impression that Mitsoda is picky to the point of complaining about not working because he can't find a job to write about zombies or vampires (look at his work history). Perhaps that is a comfort thing, but Avellone work is pretty diverse, while Mitsoda is still largely riding on his work on VTM1.

Ghost writing can be a very lucrative position or even being a "cleaner" or consultant. It is a tough job as you have to FIND work and be open to content out of your comfort zone. So networking and building relationships is key, a skill that Mitsoda doesn't appear to be comfortable with.

Thanks for a great answer, wow.

I don't know much about Mitsoda's history of writing. If he was difficult to work with and also limited his own range of writing (as you pointed out), that's something to consider.

I do wonder that because his writing was so specific to Bloodlines, it seems like a wasted opportunity not to promote and use his work (which Paradox seems to imply is still there) but if he was a problem in tandem with the Creative Director, a firing for both makes sense (and also firing the Paradox producer, which seems to indicate a larger problem).

As to whether it was a good move or not, I tend to believe Ellison's resignation speaks to her judgment of events, especially if they had more writing to do on the game, but I could be wrong about that. Note that I'm not supporting/debating Ellison's views in general, just her resignation from Hardsuit for a less prominent game role elsewhere.
 

futurama78

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Feb 18, 2021
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Love that shiny texture water look or whatever *_* got a next gen vibe or something
 
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futurama78

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World of Darkness pandering a bit too hard.


?
Wrong thread?
No I looked at footage from 2019 and it has a geforce sinerilion tech demo (sp?) glossy shiny effect. Or gears of war shiny effect. So i guess it’s two gens ago.

edit. Here Samaritan roof top
vampire 45 sec just the water but still some neon lighting too
 
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Sentenza

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No I looked at footage from 2019 and it has a geforce sinerilion tech demo (sp?) glossy shiny effect. Or gears of war shiny effect. So i guess it’s two gens ago.
Ok, then.
Aside for the fact that nothing about it is particularly impressive, it just seemed a random-ass reply in a thread that just isn't about the footage.
That video wasn't even posted at any point of the past four pages.
 
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futurama78

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Ok, then.
Aside for the fact that nothing about it is particularly impressive, it just seemed a random-ass reply in a thread that just isn't about the footage.
That video wasn't even posted at any point of the past four pages.
someone said the game is going to be a shitshow but it has a good graphics style and impressive immersive enemies that is a feeling i want out out next gen so i think it’s just in dev hell like others said but prob something good based on tech
 
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element

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The fact that people like you write social media guides for companies frightens me.
Why? Most of it is pretty standard HR and PR stuff and code of conduct stuff. Not sure what makes "social media guidelines" different than public speaking guidelines.

Also "write" means more like review an already established document and include or remove platforms as they evolve.
 

JayK47

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What little interest I had in the game has left the building. I can't think of a game with such a messy development that ended up being a great game. They always look the part.
 
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killatopak

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Embellishments? He literally said in the screenshot "I AM SO SORRY! I owe you like a hundred million apologies". Yeah, he knew what he'd done was unacceptable and that's no exaggeration.

Yet another one unable to disagree without being smug and condescending. Reminds me of resetera.
Reminds me of someone I watch called Hashinshin

Basically guy gets accused of grooming underage children and sexually harassing them. Gets mobbed by twitter, falls into depression and mistakenly apologizes just make them stop harassing him. He got called out by multiple people in the same industry and ruined his reputation.

Turns out the accusations weren’t true. His girlfriend at the time pushed him to it with forged evidences and other unlawful stuff. How did we know the accusations weren’t true? The FBI stepped in, investigated everything and cleared him of his charges. Unfortunately he’s still banned on twitch and there are still people accusing him and refusing to play and or tank games when he’s on their team despite being proven innocent.

UNLESS THERE IS SOLID UNDENIABLE PROOF, APOLOGIES MEAN NOTHING.
 
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Sentenza

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More RUDI-related quality content:

 

Spaceman292

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someone said the game is going to be a shitshow but it has a good graphics style and impressive immersive enemies that is a feeling i want out out next gen so i think it’s just in dev hell like others said but prob something good based on tech
Tech doesn't mean something will be good. Anthem had good tech.
 

futurama78

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Tech doesn't mean something will be good. Anthem had good tech.
Yeah but neon lights mean good antihero storytelling and then there’s mech storytelling like anthem and mech like halo and mech like gunfam wing so like iunno i have faith but more faith in origibal developers
 
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Sentenza

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Di we even care at this point? They just aren’t working at the game anymore and Paradox has yet to confirm who’s the new developer taking the reins.

I’m also a bit curious to learn if they will be tasked with salvaging what’s already done or given freedom (and budget) to redo as much as needed.
 

Madevil

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No idea, lots of staff on twitter looking for a new job, but their official statement is down playing the number of people let go as a "small percentage"..

But staff tweets say entire narrative team and "half the office" so.. sounds bad!
Thanks man. Seems like there's been a real balls up for a few years.
 

MiguelItUp

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This, and then all the layoffs. Good lord, this game should just be canceled at this point.

There was a point where I was still excited about it. But at this point... Whatever is released I can't imagine would be great. If anything maybe poor or adequate.

Such a shame.
 
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Spaceman292

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Yeah but neon lights mean good antihero storytelling and then there’s mech storytelling like anthem and mech like halo and mech like gunfam wing so like iunno i have faith but more faith in origibal developers
You don't have much faith in spell check apparently.
 

Sentenza

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Not against an antifa/queer group of vampires per se, but this is 14-year old kid writing level. Embarassing.
I mean, yeah. That would be the point.
It's not like we are pointing it's ridiculous because we would have preferred the fascist vampires with Mussolini's picture in their wallets.
And Vampire as an IP has a long history of being rather "progressive" in general, so to say.

What makes it pathetic is how fucking hamfisted and self-righteous it is from top to end.
Not to mention the desperate attempts at checking as many boxes as possible for maximum inclusivity.

That aside, I also have some perplexity with vampires that more often than not should perceive people as something barely one step above cattle rediscovering themselves as the ultimate Freedom Fighters for human rights and minorities representation.

so this is a 2022 game now!? D:
At best. Possibly even delayed further, according to what the new unannounced studio will decide to do with it.
 
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