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Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2 not launching in 2021, HardSuit labs replaced as the lead developer

D

Deleted member 17706

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I loved the idea of another game in the Bloodlines series, but what they had shown up until now looked pretty bad, to be honest. I hope they can do the original justice.
 

GnomeChimpsky

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I feel bad for all the employees who weren't involved in the politics, but at the same time happy this didn't get to tarnish the name of the original.
Avellone was a contractor on the game and there was enough corroborated stories that his behavior was not appropriate.
The one accusation that had any substance was complete bullshit and you know it.
 

element

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Jun 6, 2004
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So he’s not allowed to make a living anymore?
Yeah, and business can decide if they want to work with him or not.

It is up to the team/publisher he works with if they want to attempt to use him in a public sense know his history.

There are tons of individuals or groups that offer consultant services in games that no one ever hears about, so he has options as well as his own rate. If he asks for more than what a studio is willing to pay knowing his skills and his baggage, is it the devs fault to want to mitigate that risk by offering less money? Again, he is/was an independent contractor.
 

Noncanon Ship

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Dec 11, 2020
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I guess it's a good sign that Paradox can recognize what everyone has been saying: that this game's development isn't looking good. I wonder what took them this long though. Hopefully they can put it in competent hands. Probably better it doesn't come out at all than comes out a complete disgrace to its name.

As for the Avellone thing, I wonder if they had to remove his work if they were going to cancel the contract or if that was a choice they made. Avellone is a fantastic writer and I loved the narratives of games he worked on like Fallout NV and Prey. I was really excited for him to be writing for this game and Dying Light 2. It was pretty upsetting when we found out the things he did and he got taken off those projects - no doubt the projects are the worse for it.

I think about Avellone like I do about Cas Anvar now, who was a costar in The Expanse. The character he played was my favorite, but because of his sexual misconduct they had to write him out of the show this season despite his character still being in the books. There are no plans to recast. Basically my favorite character in the show is done because Cas couldn't keep it in his pants around young fans. People who create things in teams or whose works have a lot of fans need to realize that they're destroying things for more than just themselves when they do this. They have an obligation to their colleagues and their project's fans that they should take seriously rather than cynically using their position to mistreat some colleagues and fans and exploit them for personal gratification. It sucks that my favorite character is gone from The Expanse now and the show is not as good anymore because of it, but the only one I can get angry at for it is Cas. Same with Avellone.
 

Bitmap Frogs

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Dec 26, 2008
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Yeah, and business can decide if they want to work with him or not.

It is up to the team/publisher he works with if they want to attempt to use him in a public sense know his history.

More like if they want to risk a twitter mob ruining the pr for whatever game he's hired to work on.

Which is the point of all this: get them fired and not working.

We just had hit pieces on the media on the lead designer of the upcoming Hogwart's Legacy, not because he actually harmed someone, but because of his ideas. His politics. Do you also agree on inciting twitter mobs against someone for his personal beliefs?
 

Mozzarella

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Aug 4, 2020
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Looks like CDPR are truly industry changing developer, first with Witcher 3 making Assassins Creed and Horizon Zero Dawn impact on the game formula and maybe other games too, to Cyberpunk 2077 making developers scared to release unfinished games.

That jk aside i think VTMB2 is officially in development hell, this game may get cancelled or it may turn out to be a disaster, good thing i never bought into its hype because the initial trailer turned me off completely. Im interested in a game from WoD lore, with the current situation i think its better to stall this project until a western developer capable of making an excellent game on this lore shows up. I always wanted a CDPR game based on WoD, but after Cyberpunk im not sure, though i have no doubt they can give me the great quests and characters, so i dont know, it can probably still work, maybe if they recruit the old RPG developers as assistant director, like Chris and Fergus. in that case i can expect something excellent.
 
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Stuart360

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Sep 9, 2018
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As much of a fan of the orig game i am, i have always had dread about how a woke version of fucking Vampire The Masqeurade would be like in 2021. For me, maybe its best for the game to just be cancelled.
 

Noncanon Ship

Banned
Dec 11, 2020
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More like if they want to risk a twitter mob ruining the pr for whatever game he's hired to work on.

Which is the point of all this: get them fired and not working.

We just had hit pieces on the media on the lead designer of the upcoming Hogwart's Legacy, not because he actually harmed someone, but because of his ideas. His politics. Do you also agree on inciting twitter mobs against someone for his personal beliefs?
You're not being fair to element. This isn't a case of a guy getting cancelled by a twitter mob because of his beliefs. I hope we can distinguish between situations like the Hogwarts Legacy guy and Matt Pascual vs. Avellone, Rooster Teeth's Ryan Haywood, and Ubisoft directors and execs like Maxime Beland.
 

Tierdal

Neo Member
Mar 31, 2013
3
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Damn, this game really can't catch a break. It seems that tackling such a big project was too big for an unexperienced studio like HardSuit Labs.

This is looking like a train wreck =/ Sucks too because the original was a masterpiece.
 

element

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Jun 6, 2004
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More like if they want to risk a twitter mob ruining the pr for whatever game he's hired to work on.

Which is the point of all this: get them fired and not working.

We just had hit pieces on the media on the lead designer of the upcoming Hogwart's Legacy, not because he actually harmed someone, but because of his ideas. His politics. Do you also agree on inciting twitter mobs against someone for his personal beliefs?
Me personally as someone who has worked in games for 20 years and who has written social media guidelines for companies, we live in an era where your words matter and can impact teams of hundreds. So while I agree that people have the right to express their political stance, expressing a stance and creating 50 videos talking in detail about that stance are vastly different, especially when you are in a leadership position at a large studio. You have to understand that your comments impact the livelihood of potentially your entire staff and just saying 'this is my personal opinion' doesn't absolve your comments from staining your game, studio and co-workers reputations.

And to Noncanon Ship Noncanon Ship hit on something that there is a HUGE difference between expressing a controversial point of view versus sexual abuse, sexual harassment or mental abuse.

Let's not try to suggest that the two as equal.
 
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TheSHEEEP

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Sep 10, 2018
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You're not being fair to element. This isn't a case of a guy getting cancelled by a twitter mob because of his beliefs. I hope we can distinguish between situations like the Hogwarts Legacy guy and Matt Pascual vs. Avellone, Rooster Teeth's Ryan Haywood, and Ubisoft directors and execs like Maxime Beland.
You can fuck right off with that cancel culture bullshit.

Avellone did what?
Flirt with someone? Oh no, how horrible! Dumb to do it at the workplace, sure, but we all know this happens (and some stable relationships result from it, so...).
Being a dick when drunk - and drinking too much? Valid, but that means the guy needs help, not social shunning.
He also brought someone to their door while they were drunk - a rather gentleman move that was of course twisted into "... but he just wanted to get into pants!".

All other allegations were pure bullshit.
"He made me drunk!" - NO ONE, absolutely no one, was forced to drink alcohol. You can't say no? That is your fault, not the others'. Especially since that person was known to drink a lot in company anyway (but sure, I guess it was never on her, right?).
This modern culture of blaming all others for your own lack of spine & conviction and the inability to say no is absolutely disgusting.
"He was being manipulative!" - Whenever you read this, you can be 100% sure someone just pulled something out of their posteriors. It means nothing. We all do what we do in order to achieve something. That's not being manipulative, that just means you don't act at random.
"He had a relationship with a friend of mine!" - So, what? A relationship that apparently didn't even end on bad terms?

Maybe enough in all of this to have a talk with the guy, tell him to stop flirting with half the staff, let him do the walk of shame the crowd so loves to see.
Undoubtedly he had some issues he would need to deal with.
But nowhere near enough to fire him, make sure he can never get a job in the industry again for years and remove his frigging work from the project as if it was in any way related to his actions.

He was not even accused of anything remotely illegal, and yet the mob came for his job as judge, jury and the HR/PR departments - which traditionally give in to the mob by default - gladly played executioner for the clout it would gain them.
This was very much a case of cancel culture.

If you defend this course of action, you are part of the problem.

Me personally as someone who has worked in games for 20 years and who has written social media guidelines for companies, we live in an era where your words matter and can impact teams of hundreds. So while I agree that people have the right to express their political stance, expressing a stance and creating 50 videos talking in detail about that stance are vastly different, especially when you are in a leadership position at a large studio. You have to understand that your comments impact the livelihood of potentially your entire staff and just saying 'this is my personal opinion' doesn't absolve your comments from staining your game, studio and co-workers reputations.
Well, you are definitely part of the problem.
The only reason personal stances and voicing them is a problem is because of people like you, who write nonsensical "social media guidelines" to make sure people tow the line of whatever the current mainstream media and Twitter mob wants to see.
It is always a tempest in a teapot. The people who even care about these stances are a vocal minority of "journalists" and bloggers who unfortunately got into positions of some reach - but no studio who ignored their manufactured outrages was ever worse off for it. Generally the review bombing of SJWs is not impactful at all - and blown out of the water by review bombing by people who are upset when studios give in to them (see, e.g. Ion Fury, who actually sold more after refusing to bow to the mob).

The only people your game, studio and co-workers can be "tainted" for by your opinion are those that don't give a damn about it anyway, unless they can be offended by it.
As long as you don't use your game as an outlet for your beliefs, and don't preach through it, whatever your beliefs are don't matter a single bit.
 
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Vae_Victis

Banned
Mar 4, 2020
942
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I'm reading of several people who pre-ordered the game whose pre-order was not cancelled automatically, and they had to try (and only sometimes succeed) at cancel it manually.

So I think all they did was stopping new people from pre-ordering, but they didn't cancel existing pre-orders on any store or their website. Can somebody confirm this?
 
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xrnzaaas

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Dec 9, 2013
12,764
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The fact that all pre-orders weren't cancelled and refunded automatically is definitely scummy on Paradox's part. We're not talking about a simple delay here. The game will either look different or completely different (if the new studio will start from scratch) than what was originally promised and shown in the presentations.
 
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ShadowNate

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Dec 2, 2013
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The situation with twitter mobs and cancel culture has gone so far off the deep end, and created a sick, toxic environment, where logic counter arguments apparently did not matter anymore.

So, I can't help but feel some sense of cosmic justice when they ended up broken and unable to develop a produce. Of course it is not actually some random cosmic justice but rather the mathematically certain outcome of the toxicity masquerading (heh) as social justice, pretending to create "safe spaces" by "cancelling" anyone they target.

Really sorry for anyone not participating in the misguided politics the led them there, and losing their job over this.
The others, fuck 'em.
 
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Noncanon Ship

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You can fuck right off with that cancel culture bullshit.

Avellone did what?
Flirt with someone? Oh no, how horrible! Dumb to do it at the workplace, sure, but we all know this happens (and some stable relationships result from it, so...).
Being a dick when drunk - and drinking too much? Valid, but that means the guy needs help, not social shunning.
He also brought someone to their door while they were drunk - a rather gentleman move that was of course twisted into "... but he just wanted to get into pants!".

All other allegations were pure bullshit.
"He made me drunk!" - NO ONE, absolutely no one, was forced to drink alcohol. You can't say no? That is your fault, not the others'. Especially since that person was known to drink a lot in company anyway (but sure, I guess it was never on her, right?).
This modern culture of blaming all others for your own lack of spine & conviction and the inability to say no is absolutely disgusting.
"He was being manipulative!" - Whenever you read this, you can be 100% sure someone just pulled something out of their posteriors. It means nothing. We all do what we do in order to achieve something. That's not being manipulative, that just means you don't act at random.
"He had a relationship with a friend of mine!" - So, what? A relationship that apparently didn't even end on bad terms?

Maybe enough in all of this to have a talk with the guy, tell him to stop flirting with half the staff, let him do the walk of shame the crowd so loves to see.
Undoubtedly he had some issues he would need to deal with.
But nowhere near enough to fire him, make sure he can never get a job in the industry again for years and remove his frigging work from the project as if it was in any way related to his actions.

He was not even accused of anything remotely illegal, and yet the mob came for his job as judge, jury and the HR/PR departments - which traditionally give in to the mob by default - gladly played executioner for the clout it would gain them.
This was very much a case of cancel culture.

If you defend this course of action, you are part of the problem.

Don't be an asshole to me just because you're too much of a fanboy and are in denial of the facts.

After escorting her up to her hotel room at the convention with 2 others, he grabbed her head and forcibly kissed her. In front of two other people. When they weren't on a date or a romantic setting at all and there was no relationship between them. He grabbed her so she couldn't pull away. Yes that's sexual assault.

Then the two other guys repeatedly tried to get Avellone to leave with them and he refused. Apparently they were too intimidated by Avellone's stature in the industry to directly challenge him on it so they left him there with her. And Avellone, knowing that she was blackout drunk - knowing that she was so wasted that she had to leave the party and go back to her room and knowing she needed 3 people (including him) to help her get back to her room because she was so wasted - then proceeded to take her pants off and put his hand on her vagina. He only stopped because she was unexpectedly cognizant enough still to say "no" at that point. What if she were slightly more drunk - was he counting on that? That's not "flirting". That was sexual assault and attempted rape on incapacitated woman who wasn't capable of giving consent and he knew that. Forcibly kissing, undressing, and groping the vagina of a woman that you know is blackout drunk is not "flirting". Using "I need to escort her back to her room because she's so wasted" as a ploy to get her alone to perform sex acts on her is a despicable move - it's not "a gentleman move".

The part about the alcohol is to show that it may have been premeditated. He was plying her with alcohol - every time she turned down more, he'd insist and put more in her hands. On its own that's fine and could be seen as a generous guy, but in the context of him keeping an eye on her so that he can swoop in when 2 of her friends started to take her back to her hotel room and he can join in, it looks like he plied her with alcohol specifically to get her drunk enough so he could sexually assault her in an incapacitated state. It's predatory.

Keep in mind he never denied what she said - he didn't deny any of it. In fact he said she had every right to hate him, and tacitly acknowledged that what she said was true by saying he hadn't meant to hurt her by what he did.

He also repeatedly groped his girlfriend's friend during an industry event every time his girlfriend looked away. He was already being blacklisted from conventions for terrible behavior even before these allegations came up so who knows what other things he did. That's more sexual assault and also completely unprofessional behavior at conventions that would get anyone else fired from their job (showing up drunk for work + failing to show up).

The other "allegation" as you call it is one we have hard proof of in the form of a screenshot. In a conversation with a girl new to the industry and still trying to find fulltime employment, he responded to a work-related text by graphically describing performing sex acts on her and talking graphically about her body parts. How would you like it if your boss or the guy running the company you want to work at started sending you texts explicitly describing, say, how he's going to stretch your anus and put his dick in you? If this is your idea of "flirting" then you must be a virgin.

It's people like you who minimize and refuse to ever acknowledge any wrongdoing (even when the accused isn't denying it and is apologizing!) that are the problem. You conflate what he did with people who merely had bad breakups or said something politically incorrect on twitter as if they're all on equal footing. How the hell is anyone supposed to stand against cancel culture when people like you include actual cases of sexual misconduct in it? People like Cosby, Weinstein, Epstein, Spacey etc. aren't 'victims' of cancel culture and I don't want to be associated with defending them or any others guilty of sexual misconduct when I object to people being canceled over a damn joke.
 
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intbal

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SJWs don't even play videogames. One day Western companies will understand that again and make games for the people who actually spend money on them.
They don't watch movies much, either. But that hasn't stopped Hollywood from tailoring their entire film slate for that group.
 
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TheSHEEEP

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Keep in mind he never denied what she said - he didn't deny any of it. In fact he said she had every right to hate him, and tacitly acknowledged that what she said was true by saying he hadn't meant to hurt her by what he did.
He decided to go the path of least resistance, quickly apologize and disappear.
He chose not to directly deny anything as he didn't want to deal with the further shitstorm. Can't blame the guy, although I wish he would have stood up, admitting the things he actually did, describe the rest from his perspective and challenge the rest.

But that he didn't doesn't prove a single thing: Apologies mean nothing.
Most people feel pressured to apologize for things when faced with such a shitstorm. And often regret it afterwards, as it equals an admission of the allegations in the eyes some (like yourself).

After escorting her up to her hotel room at the convention with 2 others, he grabbed her head and forcibly kissed her. In front of two other people. When they weren't on a date or a romantic setting at all and there was no relationship between them. He grabbed her so she couldn't pull away. Yes that's sexual assault.

Then the two other guys repeatedly tried to get Avellone to leave with them and he refused. Apparently they were too intimidated by Avellone's stature in the industry to directly challenge him on it so they left him there with her. And Avellone, knowing that she was blackout drunk - knowing that she was so wasted that she had to leave the party and go back to her room and knowing she needed 3 people (including him) to help her get back to her room because she was so wasted - then proceeded to take her pants off and put his hand on her vagina. He only stopped because she was unexpectedly cognizant enough still to say "no" at that point. What if she were slightly more drunk - was he counting on that? That's not "flirting". That was sexual assault and attempted rape on incapacitated woman who wasn't capable of giving consent and he knew that. Forcibly kissing, undressing, and groping the vagina of a woman that you know is blackout drunk is not "flirting". Using "I need to escort her back to her room because she's so wasted" as a ploy to get her alone to perform sex acts on her is a despicable move - it's not "a gentleman move".

The part about the alcohol is to show that it may have been premeditated. He was plying her with alcohol - every time she turned down more, he'd insist and put more in her hands. On its own that's fine and could be seen as a generous guy, but in the context of him keeping an eye on her so that he can swoop in when 2 of her friends started to take her back to her hotel room and he can join in, it looks like he plied her with alcohol specifically to get her drunk enough so he could sexually assault her in an incapacitated state. It's predatory.
Holy shit, dude.
That is one big pile of unproven allegations and wild theories.
Even more, the same person who "came out" with these allegations said these things before (all around the time of said incident):

So, what? She changed her mind? The stuff she said about the incident before was all just lies?
Or is it maybe possible that someone held a grudge against Chris after he broke up with a friend of hers ( https://archive.is/22LMr ) and decided to spice stories up a little as an act of revenge?

As a bonus, about your made-up "rape" allegation. Disproven by the accuser herself:
See what happens after you play Chinese whispers for a while? Cue next year, when some will probably claim he killed someone...

There have been way too many cases of people who lost all they had - some of which driven to suicide - by nothing but allegations that later turned out to be false, unprovable, motivated by greed/revenge or completely exaggerated.
I'm not down with believing allegations the moment they are made.
There has to be some tangible proof and due process.
And not actually lots of evidence that the whole deal of allegations doesn't hold up or is at the very least exaggerated - and the sources are quite lacking in credibility (the whole video is informative, but I recommend at least 38:00+):

It's people like you who minimize and refuse to ever acknowledge any wrongdoing (even when the accused isn't denying it and is apologizing!) that are the problem.
Look, I'm not denying the guy was probably a pain to work with as a woman, flirty and unbearable when drunk. Those are the only things one can be reasonably certain about, as multiple people confirmed as much.
Maybe he deserved to be fired at some point, who knows for certain; he was certainly due for some time to think about his behavior in general.
But the public cancellation that actually happened, the far-fetched rape accusations as you yourself made, the fact that he might never again do the job he does best (the Twitter mob doesn't grant second chances)?
No. I can only repeat myself: Fuck off with that crap.

Did anyone ever just talk to him or his superiors, tell him what he did, give him a chance to actually change something about his behavior?
Or did people just decide to air their grievances on Twitter when the time "felt right" for the public witch hunt?

I don't want to be associated with defending them or any others guilty of sexual misconduct
The keyword being "guilty", as Weinstein and Cosby (and many others) were found (Spacey not, btw, afaik).
How long is a person considered innocent again?
Until the mob comes for them on social media, that's right.
 
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In Your Vase

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Jul 19, 2020
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Don't be an asshole to me just because you're too much of a fanboy and are in denial of the facts.

After escorting her up to her hotel room at the convention with 2 others, he grabbed her head and forcibly kissed her. In front of two other people. When they weren't on a date or a romantic setting at all and there was no relationship between them. He grabbed her so she couldn't pull away. Yes that's sexual assault.

Then the two other guys repeatedly tried to get Avellone to leave with them and he refused. Apparently they were too intimidated by Avellone's stature in the industry to directly challenge him on it so they left him there with her. And Avellone, knowing that she was blackout drunk - knowing that she was so wasted that she had to leave the party and go back to her room and knowing she needed 3 people (including him) to help her get back to her room because she was so wasted - then proceeded to take her pants off and put his hand on her vagina. He only stopped because she was unexpectedly cognizant enough still to say "no" at that point. What if she were slightly more drunk - was he counting on that? That's not "flirting". That was sexual assault and attempted rape on incapacitated woman who wasn't capable of giving consent and he knew that. Forcibly kissing, undressing, and groping the vagina of a woman that you know is blackout drunk is not "flirting". Using "I need to escort her back to her room because she's so wasted" as a ploy to get her alone to perform sex acts on her is a despicable move - it's not "a gentleman move".

The part about the alcohol is to show that it may have been premeditated. He was plying her with alcohol - every time she turned down more, he'd insist and put more in her hands. On its own that's fine and could be seen as a generous guy, but in the context of him keeping an eye on her so that he can swoop in when 2 of her friends started to take her back to her hotel room and he can join in, it looks like he plied her with alcohol specifically to get her drunk enough so he could sexually assault her in an incapacitated state. It's predatory.

Keep in mind he never denied what she said - he didn't deny any of it. In fact he said she had every right to hate him, and tacitly acknowledged that what she said was true by saying he hadn't meant to hurt her by what he did.

He also repeatedly groped his girlfriend's friend during an industry event every time his girlfriend looked away. He was already being blacklisted from conventions for terrible behavior even before these allegations came up so who knows what other things he did. That's more sexual assault and also completely unprofessional behavior at conventions that would get anyone else fired from their job (showing up drunk for work + failing to show up).

The other "allegation" as you call it is one we have hard proof of in the form of a screenshot. In a conversation with a girl new to the industry and still trying to find fulltime employment, he responded to a work-related text by graphically describing performing sex acts on her and talking graphically about her body parts. How would you like it if your boss or the guy running the company you want to work at started sending you texts explicitly describing, say, how he's going to stretch your anus and put his dick in you? If this is your idea of "flirting" then you must be a virgin.

It's people like you who minimize and refuse to ever acknowledge any wrongdoing (even when the accused isn't denying it and is apologizing!) that are the problem. You conflate what he did with people who merely had bad breakups or said something politically incorrect on twitter as if they're all on equal footing. How the hell is anyone supposed to stand against cancel culture when people like you include actual cases of sexual misconduct in it? People like Cosby, Weinstein, Epstein, Spacey etc. aren't 'victims' of cancel culture and I don't want to be associated with defending them or any others guilty of sexual misconduct when I object to people being canceled over a damn joke.
Wow, do you have a lot of facts wrong.

Your speculations are even worse, which is part of the Twitter mob problem. You listen, vigorously nod your head, and react with a big virtue signal flare, taking one side's story as gospel, but not content with that, you seek to add your own embellishments, which then others like you parrot as truth, and the cycle continues.

So let's go with the facts and ask you to comment on them:

- Blacklist at what conventions now? Is that a story the main accuser made up or speculated on? Sure, she got him blacklisted from her convention (of course she did), but what others? Was this one in a long list of claims she spouted off when making the allegations, trying to hit every possible trigger button she could?

- I notice you don't mention the fact the main accuser, Karissa, contradicted herself 2 years after the event, saying she'd never been harassed at all, except by women. Then, when dumb old Avellone had a bad break up with the friend KARISSA set him up with at the same convention a year later, at the same bar, "suddenly" Karissa's story changes and everything Avellone did in the past is assault. OMG, why?! How can I figure out this puzzle?! That's a clear motive, agenda, and I call vengeful bullshit right there.

- But I got you covered: Of course, the next stage to this response is "accusers are allowed to change their story" and she has, several times, but it makes her harder to believe each time.

- Another example on the "text" you hold as gospel with your embellishments: Watch the video posted on here on the text. That "Jacqui Collins" text wasn't anything related to "work." They weren't even in the same industry and have been flirting for years based on Twitter, she even called him a "future boyfriend," so check your facts. She even said she'd be down to clown 50/50 if anyone hit her up. Completely her right to say no when the offer's out there, but blasting a text and then proclaiming your purity and that your open relationship and Tinder predelictions (which you've announced to the world) is in fact, not, and you are in a committed relationship (which she also contradicted). She's little more than a clout chaser, it's hard to keep up - and she only went on blast because the currency she had on Avellone would have run out if she didn't jump on the bandwagon. In a complete hypocritical move, Jacqui even failed to defend or speak out against her close industry friends actually accused of rape, and her silence ended up setting up one of her friends to be another potential "victim" (by her reckoning, which shows how shitty her take is). But blast Avellone on a text... you bet, good for her.

- Also, in the video, those exchanges, Avellone (who clearly has a problem) was buying drinks for everyone there based on their responses. I don't see how that's targeting, it's the exact opposite (it's also amusing none of these people spoke out when this occured).

- I really doubt Avellone had a "girlfriend" through any of this, guy was probably single and acting like it. But I won't speculate. I'm sure if you asked the "girlfriend" in question, she'd indicate she wasn't a girlfriend at all.

This is all such bullshit. Accountability is needed all around, and the accuser definitely needs some as well. They don't need to be painted as innocent victims, that diminishes who they are and their agency, and it's really demeaning to somehow imply that all these women were somehow wide-eyed deer in the forest when they all made decisions that are questionable at best.
 

Noncanon Ship

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He decided to go the path of least resistance, quickly apologize and disappear.
He chose not to directly deny anything as he didn't want to deal with the further shitstorm. Can't blame the guy, although I wish he would have stood up, admitting the things he actually did, describe the rest from his perspective and challenge the rest.

But that he didn't doesn't prove a single thing: Apologies mean nothing.
Most people feel pressured to apologize for things when faced with such a shitstorm. And often regret it afterwards, as it equals an admission of the allegations in the eyes some (like yourself).


Holy shit, dude.
That is one big pile of unproven allegations and wild theories.
Even more, the same person who "came out" with these allegations said these things before (all around the time of said incident):

So, what? She changed her mind? The stuff she said about the incident before was all just lies?
Or is it maybe possible that someone held a grudge against Chris after he broke up with a friend of hers ( https://archive.is/22LMr ) and decided to spice stories up a little as an act of revenge?

As a bonus, about your made-up "rape" allegation. Disproven by the accuser herself:
See what happens after you play Chinese whispers for a while? Cue next year, when some will probably claim he killed someone...

Nothing you have linked "disproves" anything she said. You're dangerously close to a conspiracy theory with insinuations that his colleague fabricated that screenshot and that Avellone's true fans will see the secret message behind his words that he actually didn't do it and doesn't mean what he says. Why would he do that - if someone had falsely tarnished my reputation I'd call it out - who but a pathetic loser wouldn't, especially if it's supposedly a fabricated photo of a facebook conversation that I could easily disprove. So lucky he has you to go to bat for him. Maybe he didn't say anything because he knew he could count on you!

More importantly, you're shifting the goalposts. My reply was correcting your false downplaying and minimizing of what he was being 'canceled' for. You said all he did was "flirt with someone", be "a dick when drunk", and had his "gentlemanly moves" twisted into the assumption that he just wanted to get into her pants. No, she was saying he wanted to get into her pants because according to her, he actually took off her pants and groped her vagina, after first forcibly kissing her in front of two witnesses. It wasn't an assumption. You then made it out like she was just crying about him getting her drunk and blaming him for her drinking. The allegation was that he predatorily plied her with alcohol specifically so he could rape her.

You claimed "he was not even accused of anything remotely illegal". He was accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting at least 2 women and sexually harassing a third woman. That's illegal. That's not merely "flirting" or "being a dick".

You downplay and minimize, then refuse to acknowledge the truth by shifting the goalposts and trying to turn the discussion into attacking the women who accused him so you can justify to yourself totally ignoring reality and pretending he wasn't accused of anything more than being a gentlemanly flirt.

This is nowhere fucking close to cancel culture for wearing an Indigenous headdress, telling a joke about getting AIDS in Africa, or saying 'all lives matter'. Since you simply can't help but be a rude asshole and are so sensitive that you can't handle others having different opinions from you to the point that you throw a fit and tell them to "fuck off", I won't be replying further to anything you say. You've told me you're incapable of civilized debate so there's no point.
 

In Your Vase

Member
Jul 19, 2020
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You're dangerously close to a conspiracy theory with insinuations that his colleague fabricated that screenshot and that Avellone's true fans will see the secret message behind his words that he actually didn't do it and doesn't mean what he says. Why would he do that - if someone had falsely tarnished my reputation I'd call it out - who but a pathetic loser wouldn't, especially if it's supposedly a fabricated photo of a facebook conversation that I could easily disprove. So lucky he has you to go to bat for him. Maybe he didn't say anything because he knew he could count on you!

I'd probably re-read your text above and take a breather, it's undermining everything you're trying to say at this point and only proving you're on shaky ground.
 

Noncanon Ship

Banned
Dec 11, 2020
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I'd probably re-read your text above and take a breather, it's undermining everything you're trying to say at this point and only proving you're on shaky ground.

Take a breather? Bruh, I'm not the one reeeing "fuck off" at people who disagree with me.

You want to pick apart and scrutinize these women, be my guest. But as the screenshot clearly shows (and I take it you at least accept it as real), he knew he had crossed a line. So no matter how much of a flirty slut you want to make her out to be, he knew her and knew at the time that what he had said was unacceptable. You can litigate their behavior till the end of time, but the fact is he knew what he had done. He just thought it was water under the bridge since there were no consequences for him any time in the past.
 

In Your Vase

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Jul 19, 2020
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Take a breather? Bruh, I'm not the one reeeing "fuck off" at people who disagree with me.

You want to pick apart and scrutinize these women, be my guest. But as the screenshot clearly shows (and I take it you at least accept it as real), he knew he had crossed a line. So no matter how much of a flirty slut you want to make her out to be, he knew her and knew at the time that what he had said was unacceptable. You can litigate their behavior till the end of time, but the fact is he knew what he had done. He just thought it was water under the bridge since there were no consequences for him any time in the past.
And more embellishments, what a surprise.

Seriously - take a breather, go for a walk, and come back when you've had some time.
 

Noncanon Ship

Banned
Dec 11, 2020
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And more embellishments, what a surprise.

Seriously - take a breather, go for a walk, and come back when you've had some time.

Embellishments? He literally said in the screenshot "I AM SO SORRY! I owe you like a hundred million apologies". Yeah, he knew what he'd done was unacceptable and that's no exaggeration.

Yet another one unable to disagree without being smug and condescending. Reminds me of resetera.
 
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In Your Vase

Member
Jul 19, 2020
214
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Embellishments? He literally said in the screenshot "I AM SO SORRY! I owe you like a hundred million apologies". Yeah, he knew what he'd done was unacceptable and that's no exaggeration.

Yet another one unable to disagree without being smug and condescending. Reminds me of resetera.
I was actually pretty sure you were from Resetera with your conspiracy takes, but embellish that, too, I guess.

Anyway, back to the topic: Fuck Bloodlines 2, and I'm glad Hardsuit is no longer the "main developer" or whatever shitty label Paradox decided to hang on them.
 

Barakov

Member
Sep 30, 2006
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Told ya'll.

2021 is the year of delays.

Expect a fuck-ton more delays and be prepared to snack on old gen games (backwards compatible) for another year or more.

We are fucked. I repeat. WE. ARE. FUCKED



2021 is also the year of the backlog. Then again every year is the year of backlog. Honestly, I can't get excited for PS5/XSX games if I can't find either system.
There You Go Ta Da GIF by Jason Clarke
 
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Dec 29, 2018
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2021 is also the year of the backlog. Then again every year is the year of backlog. Honestly, I can't get excited for PS5/XSX games if I can't find either system.
There You Go Ta Da GIF by Jason Clarke
Bro even if you can find a next gen console, what the fuck are you going to be playing on it. It's slim pickings for anything next gen and even then these are not true next gen games. This is the most limp dick console launch in history.
 

Warablo

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May 15, 2013
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Any open world game that involves choices that changes the world ends up in development hell.

This, Dying Light 2, No choices in Cyberpunk, (Bethesda games getting smaller in choices)
 
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Embellishments? He literally said in the screenshot "I AM SO SORRY! I owe you like a hundred million apologies". Yeah, he knew what he'd done was unacceptable and that's no exaggeration.

Yet another one unable to disagree without being smug and condescending. Reminds me of resetera.

And here come the accusations for anyone disagreeing. Sad.

Look, Embellishment NPC, you're definitely part of the cancelation problem, and your blindness to the other poster's points to your horse-blinder-like mentality. :/
 
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TheSHEEEP

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Sep 10, 2018
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if someone had falsely tarnished my reputation I'd call it out - who but a pathetic loser wouldn't, especially if it's supposedly a fabricated photo of a facebook conversation that I could easily disprove. So lucky he has you to go to bat for him. Maybe he didn't say anything because he knew he could count on you!
Honestly, I think Avellone is someone who rather shies away from direct conflict so much that he'd rather take the reputation hit.
If that makes him a pathetic loser to you, well, can't really argue with that. I find that rather pathetic, too and Angry Joe's reaction to allegations - as much as the guy himself tends to annoy me sometimes - is vastly superior.

Either way, the point is that you agree an apology doesn't prove shit, so good on you!

Also, I'm not the one saying the screenshot was fabricated. It might be real, but only reinforces what I'm saying -> Guy drank too much, sent stupid ass message, sobered up, realized his insanity, apologized.
Honestly, though, I've received worse on dating sites - and I'm a guy! That kind of message makes you look like a horny idiot, but hardly more than that.
And the recipient said she forgave him - only to bring it up again when he was being piled on publicly. Talk about pathetic...

You claimed "he was not even accused of anything remotely illegal". He was accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting at least 2 women and sexually harassing a third woman. That's illegal. That's not merely "flirting" or "being a dick".
Yeah, you are right, I should have said rape there.
Anyway, you know what should be done with allegations that serious? Police. Or at the very least superiors of a person. You know what shouldn't be done? Twitter.
Especially not five fucking years after the fact.
But I bet we all know why that didn't happen, don't we? Especially after all the evidence of the witnesses' lack of credibility and sudden changes of mind you've chosen to ignore. This isn't a case of someone so ashamed she never spoke up. It's a case of someone who completely changed her mind multiple times politically and about Avellone in particular in a way that allowed her to reinterpret events that happened to put them in a certain light.

Since you simply can't help but be a rude asshole and are so sensitive that you can't handle others having different opinions from you to the point that you throw a fit and tell them to "fuck off", I won't be replying further to anything you say. You've told me you're incapable of civilized debate so there's no point.
If you think that telling proponents of cancel culture like yourself to "fuck off" and showing them ample evidence that there is way more to a matter than they thought (which again, you just chose to ignore) is the pinnacle of rudeness and makes someone "incapable of civilized" debate...
But I guess we both know you just realized you have no real argument here that would hold up and are looking for something to step out of the discussion before it gets even worse for you.
Honestly, you should go to ResetEra, though - they'd welcome you with open arms with the way you love to jump on bandwagons of ruining a guys livelihood based on only allegations.

Except if you think the few that are proven (let's count that horny message as one) would be enough for that kind of treatment. In that case, I guess it's agree to disagree.
 
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