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Update regarding Horizon Forbidden West (PS4 versions now have entitlement to free PS5 upgrade, other games will have $10 upgrade fee)

Flutta

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They have no games worth buying. indie games and remakes are not what we paid 500 dollars for.

Having no games vs no games worth buying according to you is two different subjects all together. But you already knew that..........

Ratchet, Allstar, Returnal are not remakes or indies.

Obvious troll

u mad bro troll GIF
 

White-fire

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They have no games worth buying. indie games and remakes are not what we paid 500 dollars for.

You will forever stay confused as to why so many people are enjoying their PS5’s right now, and can’t get their hands on a PS5 almost a year since launch, and may not get one till 2023, with your obtuse reasoning. Seriously, watch the Horizon state of play from May. The PS5 version of the game will be so ahead of the PS5 version the overwhelming majority of PlayStation players will wait until the have a PS5 game just to play it.

If you don’t want good games sell you PS5 to the masses who are dying to get one and they won’t have a shortage to play anytime soon. Maybe you can ask them why they want it to bad.
 
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BootsLoader

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Dude, it's going to be the same game with better resolution. Although I would expect a lot more than that for a game coming out a year after the PS5 release.
It will be more than resolution and foliage density. Do you understand that applying DS5 support and the new tempest engine sound support alone is a lot of work? For real, those two things alone are a lot of work.
 
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RCU005

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So why would anyone buy the ps5 version? 🤣🤣
If you want a physical copy. I have a PS5 Digital Edition, so I don't have other choice, but people wanting a physical PS5 version will have to buy it at $70

The biggest issue in this mess is that Horizon, God of War and Grand Turismo shouldn't have been cross gen titles in the first place!!
 
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reksveks

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It will be more than resolution and foliage density. Do you understand that applying DS5 support and the new tempest engine sound support alone is a lot of work? For real, those two things alone are a lot of work.
15 millions quids worth of work? assuming a 100m budget?
 
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RCU005

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Ratchet returnal etc etc dont count? Talk to me. There are cross gen games still coming and next gen only coming, this has been discussed did you miss it?
There have been next-gen only titles, but Sony needs to stop making cross-gen ASAP. PS4 didn't have many cross-gen because they wanted to forget the PS3 existed, benefiting the PS4 in the process, and this is damaging the PS5.

Also, if Miles Morales sold much more on PS5 being a launch game with much less consoles (market share) than now, why would they still decide to release cross-gen games?! The Ps5 is selling out instantly, the market is increasing rapidly. The decision of making God of War and Grand Turismo cross-gen is stupid! If there is one more cross-gen after summer of next year it's even worse!
 
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White-fire

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There have been next-gen only titles, but Sony needs to stop making cross-gen ASAP. PS4 didn't have many cross-gen because they wanted to forget the PS3 existed, benefiting the PS4 in the process, and this is damaging the PS5.

Also, if Miles Morales sold much more on PS5 being a launch game with much less consoles (market share) than now, why would they still decide to release cross-gen games?! The Ps5 is selling out instantly, the market is increasing rapidly. The decision of making God of War and Grand Turismo cross-gen is stupid! If there is one more cross-gen after summer of next year it's even worse!

Because all of their cross-gen games should have been out by now but got delayed. Sony makes $200 million dollar games, in order to be profitable they need the biggest market they can. It would have been foolish to seriously release the next God of War, Horizon, and GT7 on a console that has at max 15 million units when the games cost hundreds of millions. You’re just chopping your own arm off to please internet fanboys at that point.

If you can release a graphical showcase like horizon 2 while also making it cross-gen, you get the best of both worlds in their eyes.
 
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MrTentakel

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Ah, good old capitalism.

If it`s just a minor update for you: Buy the cheaper PS4 version.
If it´s essential for you to get the PS5 version, you can

a) Buy the worst version of the game at the highest price at release or better preorder it.
b) Wait 3 month for the fully patched experience and do not pay the early adopters fee.

But stop moaning and bitching about your poor consumer choices.
 
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Uncharted bunghole
Lolnget real. Dualsense is a gimmick, it's just another controller.

I dunno. It seems a lot more comfortable to me than the DS4 and I have both controllers. Plus I like that it charges faster than the DS4. I don't have a PS5 so I haven't experienced the triggers yet but the Haptics seem nice in the games that I've felt them with.

Overall it's a welcome improvement over the DS4 and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
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BootsLoader

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Yes. It means a totally different version, coded from the ground up separately from the PS4 version. They didn’t do that. Doing that would be an epic waste of time.
They may not do that exactly but they don’t run the game in PS4 legacy mode. That means a lot of work, a lot of code tweaking and also code change and writing. Why everyone thinks that making a next gen version upgrade is just ”you turn a switch up and magically everything is ready”
 
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ManaByte

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There’s so much you can add that has nothing to do with content that would be worth $10 to millions of people. Everyone’s value proposition is different.

Charging $10 more for graphics upgrades is something from the 90s and the 32x when games like MKII would sell for $60 on the Genesis but then you had to pay $70 for the 32x version that had more colors on screen.
 
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BootsLoader

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Yes. It means a totally different version, coded from the ground up separately from the PS4 version. They didn’t do that. Doing that would be an epic waste of time.
So you think that coding for PS4 and coding for PS5 is the same exact thing? Its not porting, it’s upgrading for next gen whoch means working from “almost“ the scratch. It’s not a remaster to just bump up the res.
 
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ManaByte

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So you thing that coding for PS4 and coding for PS5 is the same exact thing?

It's extremely similar. Watch Cerny's video. It's so similar that the PS5 basically just switches to PS4 or PS4 Pro mode to run BC games. The devkits at launch were better because they were essentially suped up PS4 kits using virtually the same tools everyone has been using for seven years.
 
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White-fire

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Charging $10 more for graphics upgrades is something from the 90s and the 32x when games like MKII would sell for $60 on the Genesis but then you had to pay $70 for the 32x version that had more colors on screen.

Well, lots of developers do it now, so it’s not just in the 90’s. Again, the value proposition for everyone is different. If it’s not worth the money to you, don’t pay for it, just stay with the PS4 version.

Next-gen games cost more, it’s just a fact, a $10 upgrade simply matches the difference. If the difference isn’t enough for you, you don’t lose anything by keeping your money.

Edit: I would love for PS5 games to be $60, but if a game is really good, I do not and have not felt ripped off for paying $70. Everyone has different prices for what they want, and going by sales for PS5 games that are $70 a lot of people don’t mind paying an extra $10 if they feel the quality is exceptional.
 
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BootsLoader

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It's extremely similar. Watch Cerny's video. It's so similar that the PS5 basically just switches to PS4 or PS4 Pro mode to run BC games. The devkits at launch were better because they were essentially suped up PS4 kits using virtually the same tools everyone has been using for seven years.
while you‘re not entirely wrong, it’s not the same. Legacy mode is different to native PS5 code. The PlayStation 5 console has the ability to “transform“ itself to a PS4, that does not mean that the code is the same. It just has this function.
 
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Banjo64

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Well, lots of developers do it now, so it’s not just in the 90’s. Again, the value proposition for everyone is different. If it’s not worth the money to you, don’t pay for it, just stay with the PS4 version.

Next-gen games cost more, it’s just a fact, a $10 upgrade simply matches the difference. If the difference isn’t enough for you, you don’t lose anything by keeping your money.
What?

That’s absolute bollocks.
 

White-fire

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Can't wait for PC games to start costing $20 more!

You are just completely missing the context where I’m talking about how a $10 upgrade keeps the pricing consistent…? And therefore it’s just a fact of life? And that it makes sense for lots of people to pay more if it’s worth it for them?

Edit: You can disagree with the people who think it’s worth it but no one is arguing PS5 games by virtue of being on the PS5 cost more to make :messenger_tears_of_joy:. (Although they do marginally for cross/gen games).
 
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Banjo64

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God of War 2 / COD Vanguard PS4 costs $60, God of War 2/ COD Vanguard costs $70. In order to make up the difference in price you have to pay $10. Hence why it’s there.
I’m sorry but you are coming across as quite dippy. No wonder Sony think they can charge an extra £10 for PS5 ports when you have posts like this on an enthusiast’ forum.
 
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Woggleman

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Are you afraid there won't be enough copies or something? I just don't understand pre-ordering games these days.

Back in the day, it made sense to me. My local GameStop only got 5 copies of Fable, for example when it came out. Also, pre-order so you could get a game at a midnight release party made sense too. However, those days it is rare for a game to not have enough stock and/or just download digital. If it is a game I want to play day one, after the initial reviews stating about bugs or what not, I might buy the game the day before just to have it downloaded and ready to go.

I just don't understand pre-orders.
I know for sure I will buy it so why not pay for it now and get it out of the way?
 

White-fire

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I’m sorry but you are coming across as quite dippy. No wonder Sony think they can charge an extra £10 for PS5 ports when you have posts like this on an enthusiast’ forum.

So everyone who disagrees that any price increase is automatically a rip off is dumb? Just zero context, all games are never worth anything more than a magical $60 price tag. Or is it possible that some games are worth $70 at launch and some aren’t and I can chose for myself which I want? Which sounds more foot to you?

Also you should look up the economics term “consumer surplus” on Google. It might help you understand the concept of something being “worth the money”.
 

PaintTinJr

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Sony deserves my money, preordering a month before release. Most likely the most expensive version as a thank you for all the unique, best games in gaming.
I'm caught in two minds on this one. I like what Sony have brought to gaming over the previous four PlayStation generations, and if in the future they and they're business model - selling hardware and selling high production quality games as a product - fail, and all we were left with is monster multi trillion dollar companies, in control doing low production free games with MTX, or just doing crappy GaaS, then I would want to know what price my games should have cost - to have made Sony a trillion dollar company - to avert that miserable future.

But, on the other hand, paid updates is semantically no different to an MTX for me, and it is asking a question that breaks the turn key immersion experience that I prefer on a console. Asking if I want to spend money on x or y graphics features completely undermines the artistic endeavour of the game before I've even started it - as I'm then asking myself: "do these graphics look better?", which is what I experienced the other day with the excellent Sack Boy adventure, after it installed the PS4 version, then needed a PSN transaction to bring down the PS5 patch (at £0.00), resulting in two copies installed, so aging my PS5 SSD unnecessarily, just completely undermined my interest until my youngest and better half were enjoying it for a few hours.

Another problem, is that the value PlayStation gaming has offered me since the PS1 has been too good to like the new price point of £70; especially with them getting progressively mean by cutting B/C since the PS3 slim. And as a PC gamer too, the idea of paying for upgrades, that are part of keeping your game looking good to sell to new customers, just doesn't sit well.

I'd be happier if they charged more for the dualsense pad or even PS+ sub, and kept the cross-gen upgrades free and un-immersion breaking

IMHO what they really need to show is that it isn't just a worse deal all the time for PlayStation gamers - like it has been since the start of PS4 generation with PS+ subs for online gaming, etc.
If they added B/C for all PS1-3 gaming on PS5 that would be a nice improvement of the deal for the gamers, as would the ability to juke box disc games, where the system only does random check-ins infrequently - cutting out all that noisy disc spinning for late night gaming - as these improvements would go a long way to offset all the worsening of the deal they've done for about a decade.
 
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RCU005

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Because all of their cross-gen games should have been out by now but got delayed. Sony makes $200 million dollar games, in order to be profitable they need the biggest market they can. It would have been foolish to seriously release the next God of War, Horizon, and GT7 on a console that has at max 15 million units when the games cost hundreds of millions. You’re just chopping your own arm off to please internet fanboys at that point.

If you can release a graphical showcase like horizon 2 while also making it cross-gen, you get the best of both worlds in their eyes.

Right now they have the benefit of the doubt because COVID-19.

Horizon Forbidden West could have always been cross-gen since they started working on it since 2017 (or earlier). However, if you sell 10 million copies and 8 million are on PS5, then what was the point on releasing it on PS4? That's what happened with Miles Morales, it sold like 80% on PS5. If it was the other way around, then of course it's a must to release on PS4.

God of War on the other hand, even though they have been working on it for a while, they should have made the game for PS5. It could've been a showcase for PS5! They could make it so that you could transport from one realm to another seamlessly without any loading and the capacity to load a huge portion of the realm to make clever ways to defeat enemies or whatnot, like Ratchet and Clank.

This game hurts because ever since Mark Cerny described what's possible with the SDD the first thing it came to mind to many people was God of War, since it used the realm system.

Gran Turismo is weird because it's the other way around. It was already being made only for PS5.

Looking at this situation, it reminds me of the DRM that Microsoft implemented it and Sony confirmed it wouldn't have, but we will never know if they indeed never intended it or they changed course last minute after the backlash. I think it's the same here, because it feels like Sony never intended to have a strong cross-gen strategy (only BC), but something changed and that's why they are doing a big mess. The comment from Jim Ryan, about "we believe in generations" seems like it was actually true and genuine, until something happened later and needed to change course.
 

RCU005

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I'd be happier if they charged more for the dualsense pad or even PS+ sub, and kept the cross-gen upgrades free and un-immersion breaking

The thing is they know it's a temporary problem and they want to take advantage of it as much as they can. It looks like cross-gen will be longer than last generations, but it will have to stop eventually and all games will be on PS5 only, so they want to milk consumer as much as they can, because they can.

Microsoft is not doing it as aggressive (or maybe nothing at all, IDK for sure), but it' because they are trying to recuperate market share they lost with the Xbox One, and they are willing to take loses in order to gain consumers. So far it's working for them, but let's not forget that if they were as strong as Sony, they'd be doing the same as them. Also look at Nintendo, they have become very anti consumer because of the Switch's success, but they were more consumer-friendly when the Wii U was out and the Switch was launched because they needed to gain consumers. Once they got them, they start milking them as they please.
 

PaintTinJr

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The thing is they know it's a temporary problem and they want to take advantage of it as much as they can. It looks like cross-gen will be longer than last generations, but it will have to stop eventually and all games will be on PS5 only, so they want to milk consumer as much as they can, because they can.

Microsoft is not doing it as aggressive (or maybe nothing at all, IDK for sure), but it' because they are trying to recuperate market share they lost with the Xbox One, and they are willing to take loses in order to gain consumers. So far it's working for them, but let's not forget that if they were as strong as Sony, they'd be doing the same as them. Also look at Nintendo, they have become very anti consumer because of the Switch's success, but they were more consumer-friendly when the Wii U was out and the Switch was launched because they needed to gain consumers. Once they got them, they start milking them as they please.
I'm not sure I agree. IMO Sackboy shows that this was planned from the beginning by the way the transaction goes through PSN for SackBoy's update, so they just choose to zero rate those launch game updates, because of what Xbox did at launch with their free updates.

IMO PlayStation's marketing concocted this plan to re-frame the price rise of PS5 games, to help normalise it, so as to let those paying £70 feel like their cross-gen game was worth more, because they got more, while still providing the cheaper PS4 experience to widen the net larger to capture those prepared to buy, only at the lower price point - it is effectively the same awful plan of the XsS/XsX but in software, rather than hardware, and on a game by game basis.
 

Yselacrey00

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Nov 20, 2018
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I dunno. It seems a lot more comfortable to me than the DS4 and I have both controllers. Plus I like that it charges faster than the DS4. I don't have a PS5 so I haven't experienced the triggers yet but the Haptics seem nice in the games that I've felt them with.

Overall it's a welcome improvement over the DS4 and there's nothing wrong with that.
It might be an improvement but nothing game changing. And the battery life really sucks.
 
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Captain Toad

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I understand the upgrade path was weird and not very consumer friendly. What I don’t understand is how them changing and giving a PS5 version for free has made the anti-PlayStation crowd MORE mad.
 
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It's the same content across both versions.
People spend $4000 on a PC to play the same content a $400 console can.

edit: by that I mean there are actually people who spend that much on a PC then play the latest Ass Creed or get excited when ports of Uncharted games get leaked
 
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White-fire

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Jul 25, 2020
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Right now they have the benefit of the doubt because COVID-19.

Horizon Forbidden West could have always been cross-gen since they started working on it since 2017 (or earlier). However, if you sell 10 million copies and 8 million are on PS5, then what was the point on releasing it on PS4? That's what happened with Miles Morales, it sold like 80% on PS5. If it was the other way around, then of course it's a must to release on PS4.

God of War on the other hand, even though they have been working on it for a while, they should have made the game for PS5. It could've been a showcase for PS5! They could make it so that you could transport from one realm to another seamlessly without any loading and the capacity to load a huge portion of the realm to make clever ways to defeat enemies or whatnot, like Ratchet and Clank.

This game hurts because ever since Mark Cerny described what's possible with the SDD the first thing it came to mind to many people was God of War, since it used the realm system.

Gran Turismo is weird because it's the other way around. It was already being made only for PS5.

Looking at this situation, it reminds me of the DRM that Microsoft implemented it and Sony confirmed it wouldn't have, but we will never know if they indeed never intended it or they changed course last minute after the backlash. I think it's the same here, because it feels like Sony never intended to have a strong cross-gen strategy (only BC), but something changed and that's why they are doing a big mess. The comment from Jim Ryan, about "we believe in generations" seems like it was actually true and genuine, until something happened later and needed to change course.

I’m 100% convinced Sony thought they’d have more PS5’s out by now, and once they saw just how bad the supply for parts are, it forced a change. Although, Cory Balrog said that it was his decision alone to make it cross gen, and I remember hearing insomniac saying Sony never forced them to make Ratchet on just the PS5 or make it cross-gen. So who knows.
 
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Stuart360

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I dont really understand the 'next gen tax'. Unless its just a way of trying to push through a $70 standard for AAA games going forward on the whole.
I mean i'm a PC gamer and if a PC gamer has a mid or low end PC,and has to play a AAA game at low of medium settings, they dont get the game cheaper compared to someoine with a high end PC that can run games at ultra settings.
 

Woggleman

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I understand the upgrade path was weird and not very consumer friendly. What I don’t understand is how them changing and giving a PS5 version for free has made the anti-PlayStation crowd MORE mad.
When you hate something or somebody they could cure cancer, aids and completely eliminate covid and somehow it would get spun into a negative.
 

FUBARx89

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I usually game for 4-5 hours when I can then I just put it on the stand. Never had an issue with it running out on me.

The Switch gives me more issues with the battery than the Dualsense does.

I'm onto my 3rd, soon to be 4th controller (2x stick drift, 1x trigger spring failure) and the battery life on all or em has been abit weak.