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Unreal Engine 5 revealed! Real-Time Prototype Gameplay Demo Running On PS5

SquireDalbridge

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Sir FranXico we differ in Opinions but for the sake of Delusional expectation. See the UE5 demo can you see one object being dynamic on that whole Demo even when the Protagonist lady walks into the Tempel and she puts the hand on the doors. She does not push the doors open everything looks static beside the only Animation we get is the Dome opening and that turning table which looks to be of a lesser quality. These triangles if Animated would push the Cpu to its limits let Alone if this task is GPU based and then we would have below 10 Frames per second using this Resolution Standard. And as Digital foundry demostrated the 8K textures are streamed from the SSD directly as you can see from the statues below the dome they differ in quality aspect and detail. I wish we could see the sitting Giant animate with the Couldron pouring Lava out off it and stopping the path of the protagonist. So she could take another route. Or we could see Her opening the gates of the Temple. We only see bat fly scarabs move water move and some light particle effects
 
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Lethal01

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What are you referring to with that post?

Just TRI looking a little harder

...


...

The showcase kept mentioning triangles. Epic Games suddendly decided to switch to roman numerals instead of normal numbers.
They did it just when the numeral they would have to use is a triangle.
 
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geordiemp

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Sir FranXico we differ in Opinions but for the sake of Delusional expectation. See the UE5 demo can you see one object being dynamic on that whole Demo even when the Protagonist lady walks into the Tempel and she puts the hand on the doors. She does not push the doors open everything looks static beside the only Animation we get is the Dome opening and that turning table which looks to be of a lesser quality. These triangles if Animated would push the Cpu to its limits let Alone if this task is GPU based and then we would have below 10 Frames per second using this Resolution Standard. And as Digital foundry demostrated the 8K textures are streamed from the SSD directly as you can see from the statues below the dome they differ in quality aspect and detail. I wish we could see the sitting Giant animate with the Couldron pouring Lava out off it and stopping the path of the protagonist. So she could take another route. Or we could see Her opening the gates of the Temple. We only see bat fly scarabs move water move and some light particle effects

Yes it is static, maybe we will get games with no wind and static vegetation which looks incredible but does not move :messenger_beaming:

The movement for scenery, even a sway or somthing is what is needed for scenery sure, and god knows what they do about mioving objects that are animated I agree.

So many questions.
 
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Lethal01

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Sir FranXico we differ in Opinions but for the sake of Delusional expectation. See the UE5 demo can you see one object being dynamic on that whole Demo even when the Protagonist lady walks into the Tempel and she puts the hand on the doors. She does not push the doors open everything looks static beside the only Animation we get is the Dome opening and that turning table which looks to be of a lesser quality. These triangles if Animated would push the Cpu to its limits let Alone if this task is GPU based and then we would have below 10 Frames per second using this Resolution Standard. And as Digital foundry demostrated the 8K textures are streamed from the SSD directly as you can see from the statues below the dome they differ in quality aspect and detail. I wish we could see the sitting Giant animate with the Couldron pouring Lava out off it and stopping the path of the protagonist. So she could take another route. Or we could see Her opening the gates of the Temple. We only see bat fly scarabs move water move and some light particle effects


You are forgetting tons of rocks falling and the statues breaking apart at the end. Nanite is definitely limited and doesn't support transparent or rigged objects, but it's not totally static. It seems they can atleast do rotation/translation but maybe I'm wrong.
 
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Handy Fake

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You are forgetting tons of rocks falling and the statues breaking apart at the end. Nanite is definitely limited and doesn't support transparent or rigged objects, but it's not totally static. It seems they can atleast do rotation/translation but maybe I'm wrong.
Aye, I think it's deformation that the engine has issues with, from what Sweeney said.
May well come in an update I suppose.
 

polybius80

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Sir FranXico we differ in Opinions but for the sake of Delusional expectation. See the UE5 demo can you see one object being dynamic on that whole Demo even when the Protagonist lady walks into the Tempel and she puts the hand on the doors. She does not push the doors open everything looks static beside the only Animation we get is the Dome opening and that turning table which looks to be of a lesser quality. These triangles if Animated would push the Cpu to its limits let Alone if this task is GPU based and then we would have below 10 Frames per second using this Resolution Standard. And as Digital foundry demostrated the 8K textures are streamed from the SSD directly as you can see from the statues below the dome they differ in quality aspect and detail. I wish we could see the sitting Giant animate with the Couldron pouring Lava out off it and stopping the path of the protagonist. So she could take another route. Or we could see Her opening the gates of the Temple. We only see bat fly scarabs move water move and some light particle effects

vertex data is processed on GPU, it used to be in CPU like the immediate mode in 90's OpenGL, in modern games you use Vertex Array Objects and Vertex Buffer Objects and run a shader, sure if you plan to use billions of triangles to make something like a particle system made of quads with transparency that you move and rotate independently you can get into trouble but that is valid for any system and its triangle budget(with perhaps the only exception the PS2) but why you want something like that? what kind of game requires so much vertex processing? can you give an example?

the dome animation is a translation movement, that doesn't require extra vertex processing
 
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Dontero

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You are forgetting tons of rocks falling and the statues breaking apart at the end. Nanite is definitely limited and doesn't support transparent or rigged objects, but it's not totally static. It seems they can atleast do rotation/translation but maybe I'm wrong.

Where this notion that it is static came from ? Secondly you are looking at tech demo. Just because they have shown bilions of triangles used in their engine and LOD being made out of it doesn't mean developers will be using it like that. Maybe they will be joining this and something else to work in tandem.
 
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polybius80

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You are forgetting tons of rocks falling and the statues breaking apart at the end. Nanite is definitely limited and doesn't support transparent or rigged objects, but it's not totally static. It seems they can atleast do rotation/translation but maybe I'm wrong.

you are correct, also the bugs
 
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ZywyPL

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I wonder how much space did that demo actually took? With all those ultra high poly models and 8K textures, but no duplicated data? Anyone has a clue?
 

Dontero

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I wonder how much space did that demo actually took? With all those ultra high poly models and 8K textures, but no duplicated data? Anyone has a clue?

100s of gigs no doubt. They openly stated this was not Playstation 5 but Devkit of Playstation 5. Devkits usually have much higher amount of memory with decent amount of extra power to account for initial inneficiencies in developing game which are hammered down at the end of production before release.

On other hand someone posted that the tech they are using from company they bough apparently is very memory efficient where few milion poly objects only take something like 3-4mb each including texture. But i don't have a way to confirm that claim.
 
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Handy Fake

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100s of gigs no doubt. They openly stated this was not Playstation 5 but Devkit of Playstation 5. Devkits usually have much higher amount of memory with decent amount of extra power to account for initial inneficiencies in developing game which are hammered down at the end of production before release.

On other hand someone posted that the tech they are using from company they bough apparently is very memory efficient where few milion poly objects only take something like 3-4mb each including texture. But i don't have a way to confirm that claim.
The dev kits don't have SmartShift either. I'm curious as to whether that would have a pronounced positive impact or not.
 

ZywyPL

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On other hand someone posted that the tech they are using from company they bough apparently is very memory efficient where few milion poly objects only take something like 3-4mb each including texture. But i don't have a way to confirm that claim.

Whoa, now that would be game-changing if true.
 

Eliciel

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people should always follow the facts that Cerny shared and that is all that counts:


This is going to be the truth. The PS5 is 100x faster! vs. the commodore 64! The ONLY console that is not supported by the UE5 Demo! Deal with it!!!!
 

Dontero

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I wouldn't assert using Cerny as any paramount of truth. Remember that this is the same guy who talked how PS4 GPU garlic buss was special and it will make huge difference or that audio chip in PS5 will be based on actual ears and claimed that you will be able to send your ear photo to Sony for them to send you profile for your PS5 audio chip.

What can you trust from Cerny : Things everyone knows in hardware community
What you can't trust: Stuff that is nebulous and doesn't have cover in hardware community.

He is way better than Ken 120hz Kutaragi but he is still there to sell you pitch so that you will buy his shit not to give it away for free. If he doesn't convince you that this is not just PC you won't buy his shit so he has to come up with shit that sounds spectacular but really isn't. Like Garlic bus for PS4.

I mean they literally showed Uncharted 4 tech demo running at 60fps when game later was at 30.


That 100x metric can easily be random read vs sequention. IT would be true for sure but practically it is bullshit.
 

Lethal01

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Where this notion that it is static came from ? Secondly you are looking at tech demo. Just because they have shown bilions of triangles used in their engine and LOD being made out of it doesn't mean developers will be using it like that. Maybe they will be joining this and something else to work in tandem.

People have been saying it only works with static geometry.
They will be joining nanite with how they've been doing things for the last decade.
 
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Last paragraphs:
Simon Majar said:
I know that for many game developers that worked for years with the UE this will be a game changer, it will eliminate many painful processes that took valuable time away from them, time that could have been used for actual gameplay or quality purposes, that the players can actually benefit.

Imagine building a world that have already accurate natural lighting, without the need of actually caring about lighting, it just works when you activate it, and the scene you work in, is actually the one you ship.

I can’t wait for Lumen to be released for developers, I’m sure it will allow more beautifully lit games to be made, allow us to push the boundaries towards realism, and even allow more gameplay concepts around light.
 
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ABnormal

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RDNA2 doesn't have tensor cores, it has compute shaders. H/W wise both xsx and ps5 have about the same ai upscaling capability. The software side might be different, perhaps microsoft will offer a general solution, or perhaps each developer will have to come up with their own solution.

Epic as developers of the unreal engine, might be using their own custom ai upscaling that they'll distribute to third parties or some non ai upscaling.

I'm curious about that. Could you please give me a link to a good source about ai upscaling/machine learbing on ps5?
 

Ar¢tos

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I wouldn't assert using Cerny as any paramount of truth. Remember that this is the same guy who talked how PS4 GPU garlic buss was special and it will make huge difference or that audio chip in PS5 will be based on actual ears and claimed that you will be able to send your ear photo to Sony for them to send you profile for your PS5 audio chip.

What can you trust from Cerny : Things everyone knows in hardware community
What you can't trust: Stuff that is nebulous and doesn't have cover in hardware community.

He is way better than Ken 120hz Kutaragi but he is still there to sell you pitch so that you will buy his shit not to give it away for free. If he doesn't convince you that this is not just PC you won't buy his shit so he has to come up with shit that sounds spectacular but really isn't. Like Garlic bus for PS4.

I mean they literally showed Uncharted 4 tech demo running at 60fps when game later was at 30.


That 100x metric can easily be random read vs sequention. IT would be true for sure but practically it is bullshit.d
Sending ear photos to create audio profiles is nothing new.
Logitech does that for some of their gaming headsets via the Immerse app.
Uncharted was initially planned to be a 60fps game, but in development they decided to change to 30fps, also something MANY other devs have done before.

What data you have that the Garlic bus ended up making no difference?
 

FranXico

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Sir FranXico we differ in Opinions but for the sake of Delusional expectation. See the UE5 demo can you see one object being dynamic on that whole Demo even when the Protagonist lady walks into the Tempel and she puts the hand on the doors. She does not push the doors open everything looks static beside the only Animation we get is the Dome opening and that turning table which looks to be of a lesser quality. These triangles if Animated would push the Cpu to its limits let Alone if this task is GPU based and then we would have below 10 Frames per second using this Resolution Standard. And as Digital foundry demostrated the 8K textures are streamed from the SSD directly as you can see from the statues below the dome they differ in quality aspect and detail. I wish we could see the sitting Giant animate with the Couldron pouring Lava out off it and stopping the path of the protagonist. So she could take another route. Or we could see Her opening the gates of the Temple. We only see bat fly scarabs move water move and some light particle effects
You're talking about dynamic scenery when practically everything was loaded as static? That is but hypothetical. Yes, I am aware of the things you mention. As far as loading the geometry, I am sure the PS5 could keep up. Anything else, might not scale up as well. Care to explain what is delusional about that, kind sir?
 

Panajev2001a

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What can you trust from Cerny : Things everyone knows in hardware community
What you can't trust: Stuff that is nebulous and doesn't have cover in hardware community.

He is way better than Ken 120hz Kutaragi but he is still there to sell you pitch so that you will buy his shit not to give it away for free. If he doesn't convince you that this is not just PC you won't buy his shit so he has to come up with shit that sounds spectacular but really isn't. Like Garlic bus for PS4.

I mean they literally showed Uncharted 4 tech demo running at 60fps when game later was at 30.


That 100x metric can easily be random read vs sequention. IT would be true for sure but practically it is bullshit.

You are putting tons of hand wavey arguments in a “do not trust Cerny” soup but I do not think they gel as well as you think.

Remember that this is the same guy who talked how PS4 GPU garlic buss was special and it will make huge difference or that audio chip in PS5 will be based on actual ears and claimed that you will be able to send your ear photo to Sony for them to send you profile for your PS5 audio chip.

What about the Garlic and Onion busses was debunked for you to make this assertion that they were a waste of time? What was the claim he made that was off (you act as if he just came stoned to the Gamasutra interview and was like “man... snort... this is just out there you know... it is special!”)?

He did not say the audio chip was based on your ears, not sure how you understood that.
He said that, to enhance immersion and sense of presence, positional audio algorithms could be enhanced if the mathematical function that represented how a person’s ear is structured was taken into account.

Initially, they reconstructed such function using a lot of samples and provided a set of profiles they may allow people to choose (people’s ears are unique and you may need a lot of profiles for you to have the best / ideal sense of presence). I suggest you watch the presentation again if you have watched it before, there is a lot of interesting data.
 

FranXico

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You are forgetting tons of rocks falling and the statues breaking apart at the end.
The amount of rocks falling was very low and served just to show off their built-in physics engine (which spares developers shelling out extra for the likes of Havok, for example). It was hardly intensive.
 

Lethal01

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The amount of rocks falling was very low and served just to show off their built-in physics engine (which spares developers shelling out extra for the likes of Havok, for example). It was hardly intensive.

The point here is nanite can be used on moving objects. Not whether or not the engine is good at handling a billion moving object.,
 
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ZywyPL

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My own quote from 26.04.2020 from other thread:

What does the "higher quality" exactly mean? Higher poly models? That's what GPU allows for. Better shaders? Same. Better shadows? Same. Better lightning? Same. Higher draw distance? Same. More particles? Same. Better tessellation? Same. The list just goes on and on.

There's absolutely zero point in storing/streaming 20M polygon models when the GPU can only draw 15M, unless you're aiming for serious framerate or resolution drop.

The only graphical aspect that isn't computing power bound is the textures - now, X1X already does 4K textures, so I cannot believe that next-gen consoles will have a single issue with that, so let's assume that PS5 will be indeed able to stream 8K textures instead of 4K (which I doubt given their size and 825GB drive space) - will anyone be able to see the any difference/extra details at 4K or less? Press X to doubt.


HOLY FUCK, I didn't know I can predict the future xD
 

Ar¢tos

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Sure they changed it, because console couldn't run U4 at 60fps.
Yes, it's the only project in the whole history of gaming that grew too ambitious for the hardware that would run it.
It caused great shame and dishonour to both ND and Sony and it will take 150 years for them to regain their reputation.

I still don't see what your point is.....
 

ZywyPL

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What exactly is this supposed to be predicting?

Pretty much everything, like 8K textures, 20M polys, but especially this part:

There's absolutely zero point in storing/streaming 20M polygon models when the GPU can only draw 15M, unless you're aiming for serious framerate or resolution drop.

1440p30, the feel of next-gen!... All previous tech-demos at least tried to fool us with native resolutions and more importantly 60FPS, but if this is an indication of how next-gen games will run, underpowered from the get-go, then thanks but no thanks, I will get a new PC instead.
 
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Ar¢tos

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yes. Shocker no ? Companies lie about their products so that they can sell more of them.
No, it's easy for us to accuse companies of intentionally lying because we don't see the results they promise, but no company sets out to intentionally deceive their consumers.
For many reasons, some that they control, others that they don't, they simply fail to achieve the results they were targeting.
Lying means that they never had intention of even trying, and we know that isn't true.
Gamers need to grow up a bit and see the reality of things.
 

pawel86ck

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Pretty much everything, like 8K textures, 20M polys, but especially this part:

1440p30, the feel of next-gen!... All previous tech-demos at least tried to fool us with native resolutions and more importantly 60FPS, but if this is an indication of how next-gen games will run, underpowered from the get-go, then thanks but no thanks, I will get a new PC instead.
In order to run PS5 / XSX ports at higher settings and lets say 4K instead of 1440p (not to mention 60fps instead of 30fps) you will need to buy high end PC with 3080ti + i9. Personally I will buy PS5 and XSX before I will invest into PC platform again, because when I'm paying for high end PC I want much better experience not just marginally better for 4-5x console cost.
 
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OSC

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I'm curious about that. Could you please give me a link to a good source about ai upscaling/machine learbing on ps5?
AFAIK, there have not been mentions of how it'll be implemented on ps5.

What we can go about is compute shaders being used for ai on amd cards.

Assuming the ps5 is full rdna2 what is described on those links should apply hardware wise to the ps5 too.
 
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ZywyPL

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In order to run PS5 / XSX ports at higher settings and lets say 4K instead of 1440p (not to mention 60fps instead of 30fps) you will need to buy high end PC with 3080ti + i9. Personally I will buy PS5 and XSX before I will invest into PC platform again, because when I'm paying for high end PC I want much better experience not just a little bit better for 4-5x console cost.

We will see in the upcoming months when RDNA2 and Ampere GPUs launch, but with the Ampere recent reveal with all the specs and features, DLSS2 and especially rumors about DLSS3, I don't see the PCs having any issues with high framerates and razor sharp image.
 
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pawel86ck

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We will see in the upcoming months when RDNA2 and Ampere GPUs launch, but with the Ampere recent reveal with all the specs and features, DLSS2 and especially rumors about DLSS3, I don't see the PCs having any issues with high framerates and razor sharp image.
AI upscaling will be used on consoles too. If game will run at 30fps 1440p on PS5 (10 TF) or XSX (12 TF), then you will need at least 2x better GPU for 60fps (20-24 TF), and onother 10-12 TF (30-36 TF in totall) if you will also want to play at 4K native.

CPU requirements will be also very high, because it will take a monster to double ryzen 8 core 16 threads performance. I'm not even sure if i9 will do the job and run PS5 30fps game at 60fps.
 
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ZywyPL

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AI upscaling will be used on consoles too. If game will run at 30fps and 1440p PS5 (10 TF) or XSX (12 TF), then you will need at least 2x better GPU for 60fps (20-24 TF), and onother 10-12 TF (30-36 TF in totall) if you will also want to play at 4K native.

Not really, with DLSS2 you can render at 1080p, which is just half the pixels of 1440p, which should be already sufficient to boost the framerate from 30 to 60, and then the upscalled will to look even better than native 4K. DLSS is a real game-changer in computer generated graphics, it had a rough start, but second iteration is just mind blowing, and DLSS3 is rumored to be applicable just like that on any game that uses TAA, which is present in most games nowadays, even this UE5 demo.

Whereas AI on consoles, nothing is confirmed for the PS5, not even Rapid Packed Math, while the XBX will have to sacrifice some of the CUs for AI computing, while even at 100% CU utilization (what will obviously never happen) it's still just 1/4th of what RTX GPUs are capable of, so I don't expect spectacular results...
 

Audiophile

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I hate the console war back and forth, but speaking with levity I have to say that it does amuse me that Sony used this to trounce MS without even turning up, on a marketing level at least. I don't think they've even tweeted about it, shared the video on any of their channels or even acknowledge it. Heck, MS have talked about it more.

It goes to show you two things; people are extremely hungry for next-gen news, PlayStation much more so.... .and that MS' recent stream was a total misfire.

Not to say Sony have been ideal, their Road to PS5 event, while fine within itself, was marketed to the wrong people.

Hopefully they both bring their A game in June. Though I can't help but remain far more excited for PS5 just because of first party next-gen exclusives. Sticking to cross-gen for 1-2yrs just doesn't do it for me; and I really think it'll hurt them. They tend not to capitalise on the fact that first party games are there to sell your system (and ecosystem) first and foremost.
 
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pawel86ck

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Not really, with DLSS2 you can render at 1080p, which is just half the pixels of 1440p, which should be already sufficient to boost the framerate from 30 to 60, and then the upscalled will to look even better than native 4K. DLSS is a real game-changer in computer generated graphics, it had a rough start, but second iteration is just mind blowing, and DLSS3 is rumored to be applicable just like that on any game that uses TAA, which is present in most games nowadays, even this UE5 demo.

Whereas AI on consoles, nothing is confirmed for the PS5, not even Rapid Packed Math, while the XBX will have to sacrifice some of the CUs for AI computing, while even at 100% CU utilization (what will obviously never happen) it's still just 1/4th of what RTX GPUs are capable of, so I don't expect spectacular results...
What? 🤔 First you want to upscale 1080p to 1440p, and then another time to 4K? Man, that's even possible?
 

ZywyPL

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What? 🤔 First you want to upscale 1080p to 1440p, and then another time to 4K? Man, that's even possible?

You can upsacle from 1080p directly to 4K, with still better image quality than native 4K. Or to just 1440p if that's your screen resolution. If so, you can also render at mere 720p and upscale to 1440p. Either way the results will be amazing, without taxing the GPU too much.
 
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GlassAwful

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It's a bit sobering to learn that nanite is limited to static geometry. The architects old research suggests the few moving bits revert to standard lod with mip maps, unless they came up with a solution, but the video presented suggest otherwise with the low LOD main, the water, the limited and samey topology throughout.

Kinda bullshit the way they presented it... they allowed devs to get hyped at the prospect of never having to create LODs or UVs again and that's literally never going to happen in any game with animating characters, dynamic destruction or vegetation... It appears to be strictly for immovable objects and ones than can have no holes. That blows.

Makes me wonder what other limitations this engine has, particularly with their GI system which never emitted from more than 2 sources in the demo. We already know it has screenspace limitations which suck.
 

Shmunter

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It's a bit sobering to learn that nanite is limited to static geometry. The architects old research suggests the few moving bits revert to standard lod with mip maps, unless they came up with a solution, but the video presented suggest otherwise with the low LOD main, the water, the limited and samey topology throughout.

Kinda bullshit the way they presented it... they allowed devs to get hyped at the prospect of never having to create LODs or UVs again and that's literally never going to happen in any game with animating characters, dynamic destruction or vegetation... It appears to be strictly for immovable objects and ones than can have no holes. That blows.

Makes me wonder what other limitations this engine has, particularly with their GI system which never emitted from more than 2 sources in the demo. We already know it has screenspace limitations which suck.
Glass awful or Glass half empty?
 

Audiophile

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I see no systemic reason why it can't be adopted for movable objects, it may just be a matter of optimisation <> horsepower <> development time. Deformable objects may prove a much harder thing to achieve of course. I expect stuff like hair, skin, dynamic cloth, deformable terrain, fine foliage etc. wouldn't suit this tech anyway.

Saying this, it's worth remembering that most game worlds are mostly static with dynamic stuff layered on top. In many cases, games could use this as a foundation and devs will layer their own systems on top of UE5 to tailor it to their project's needs, I expect any AA+ dev using it to heavily modify the engine, you only have to look at what Rocksteady did with UE3 in Arkham Knight.
 
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