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News Event Game Dev Unreal Engine 5 Deep Dive on May 26th

noise36

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Man, this thread really delivered. My favorite part is Bo insinuating (and repeating like 10 times) that the PS5 is 20x more powerful than a high end PC. We're reaching levels of fanboy that shouldn't even be possible.

It's the original tech demo all over again, sonygaf embarrassing themselves over and over with hyperbolic claims of Playstation exceptionalism.
 

Negotiator101

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DF doesn’t know what they are talking about 99% of the times.

they are glorified armchair graphics experts with no training, talent or journalistic ethic.
Absolutely wrong, John Linneman has a hardware engineering background and Richard Leadbetter was the Editor of gaming magazine Edge for years. They are the only analysis team who have first hand information from developers and publishers. I am pretty sure you're wrong 99% of time though.
 

DenchDeckard

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It's not a GPU-power thing, otherwise even the new lite demo wouldn't have required 64GB of RAM and a Threadripper CPU if it was GPU-tied. It's how fast you can bring in and out the data. PS5's GPU isn't the big deal here unless for those doing brain gymnastics. Both PS5 and XSX are now considered low-end GPU's and both had the least problems with this new demo with barely 16GB of a single RAM (VRAM).

It's obvious that DirectStorage isn't ready yet for PC.
The new lite demo doesn't need 64GB of ram. Only the actual engine does. Yeah, direct storage will help a lot.

ANyway, I'm pretty convinced we wont see a real big next gen unreal engine game on PS5 until the PS5 Pro is out unfortunately.
 
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Darius87

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Absolutely wrong, John Linneman has a hardware engineering background and Richard Leadbetter was the Editor of gaming magazine Edge for years. They are the only analysis team who have first hand information from developers and publishers. I am pretty sure you're wrong 99% of time though.
engineering background? :messenger_grinning_smiling: so he should know C#, C+ and other languages also be familiar with game engines should have also some projects already made in his career maybe someone need to ask him of his github projects? if he's engineer from many videos i watched with him it doesn't seems he know more then NXgamer or others who have any background in IT, programming, etc.
the thing that makes DF to have access to devs is theyr popularity i don't think any dev would bother with them otherwise.
 
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Dr.D00p

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the thing that makes DF to have access to devs is theyr popularity i don't think any dev would bother with them otherwise.

???

What a dumb thing to say. If ANY of the YT tech channels had low subs, nobody would bother with them either. That's how YT works.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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The new lite demo doesn't need 64GB of ram. Only the actual engine does. Yeah, direct storage will help a lot.

ANyway, I'm pretty convinced we wont see a real big next gen unreal engine game on PS5 until the PS5 Pro is out unfortunately.

Again you confuse that with the GPU power. The new demo is only 24.8GB, if you open it it's really a big map. It's not as large as AC games or other massive open world, but it's very large to have decent amount inside it. Now you can tone down the polygon count even more and cut that to half and still looks impressive. I mean cut that to 1/8 and it'll still look better than most open world games out there.

The potential is achievable. Great times ahead of us! Also glad to see the new demo running smoothly on XSX which makes multiplats great! Now we need to KILL LAST GEN AND CROSSGEN GAMES!
 

FireFly

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engineering background? :messenger_grinning_smiling: so he should know C#, C+ and other languages also be familiar with game engines should have also some projects already made in his career maybe someone need to ask him of his github projects? if he's engineer from many videos i watched with him it doesn't seems he know more then NXgamer or others who have any background in IT, programming, etc.
the thing that makes DF to have access to devs is theyr popularity i don't think any dev would bother with them otherwise.
DF are specialists in analysing game footage to identify performance and visual issues. They are like a QA department on steroids, which is why they have been *contracted* by publishers to find problems with games before they launch. They are not, and have never claimed to be, game developers – who have experience making games, not analysing thousands of hours of footage.
 

Darius87

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???

What a dumb thing to say. If ANY of the YT tech channels had low subs, nobody would bother with them either. That's how YT works.
i know it's obvious but that's the reason and not because they are engineers or know anything beyond real dev knows good that we agree on that.
DF are specialists in analysing game footage to identify performance and visual issues. They are like a QA department on steroids, which is why they have been *contracted* by publishers to find problems with games before they launch. They are not, and have never claimed to be, game developers – who have experience making games, not analysing thousands of hours of footage.
what you're described is not nowhere near hardware engineering.
 
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Yeah but they do mistakes

For example, DF claimed that Xbox One/PS4 used worse texture quality settings compared to One X/PS4 Pro (nonsensical, since all consoles share similar vram amount) in RDR 2

The real reason for blurry textures was TAA, temporal anti aliasing. The less resolution you provide, the more blur TAA creates. Once the game hit the PC, we shut down TAA and see that texture quality at 1080p and 4K is the same; it was the TAA that was destroying the "texture" quality. 4K brings the lost blur detail back. In conclusion, PS4 and Xbox One had the same textures wih One X and PS4 Pro, but since they were rendering at a lower resolution, TAA destroyed the texture quality for them, hence DF claiming "xbox one and ps4 versions uses a lower texture quality setting".

They can't even seperate TAA blur from texture quality. How am I going to take them serious lmao. In fact, they are probably the biggest defenders of TAA, a plague that is bestowed upon video games in modern engines.
 
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mxbison

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Why even fight over this? It's a tech demo. They always look amazing.

Wait for some results. (Yeah I know it's gonna be a long wait)
 

Hage Kamo

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””The fps number is a bug””
 

namekuseijin

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is it a coincidence that Unreal 5, Horizon ZD and Farcry 6 all get playable previews on consecutive days?

real nextgen graphics are coming for sure. Perhaps they will be even here before PS5 is widely available...
 

ZywyPL

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TAA will destroy every kind of progression and image quality so I don't care

Dunno what happened with TAA, why it skyrocket so much in popularity, back when PS4/XB1 gen started it was just that, an AA solution, with a lot of complaints about blurring the image and ghosting effects, and now not only all of a sudden it is seen as an an OK AA solution but also as a reconstruction solution in one package... What ever happened with SMAA? That was and still is the best AA solution out there, one that doesn't blur the image/texture details. Hell, even FXAA would be so much better than TAA.
 

Md Ray

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What ever happened with SMAA? That was and still is the best AA solution out there, one that doesn't blur the image/texture details. Hell, even FXAA would be so much better than TAA.
Get the with the times, gramps. TAA these days has improved a ton and looks significantly better than FXAA and SMAA. Try Hitman 3, the glacier engine's TAA is overlooked for some reason but it has one of the best implementations of TAA with the perfect amount of sharpening producing pristine image quality.
 
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RoboFu

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Why don't they release the older demo for PC?
Probably because some of it was edited BS. 😮

more than likely they don’t want fanboys playing it on a 1060 and claiming it’s a 3090 comparing it directly to the ps5 video.
 
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Probably because some of it was edited BS. 😮

more than likely they don’t want fanboys playing it on a 1060 and claiming it’s a 3090 comparing it directly to the ps5 video.

You know actually its possible to rebuild that demo now on UE5 Early Access and try it out on pc...
 
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I didn’t see that map in the project.. do you know the name of it?
The maps obviously not there. You'd have to create it. The tools for everything are there though.

People discussing about that demo should shut up or recreate it and do the analysis. Everything else is fruitless.
 
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staticshock

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You're a liar, really. The older demo that was crunching 100,000x more polygons to 20,000,000 polygons per frame was as intensive as playing fortnite on the GPU end. It's not a GPU thing.

The new demo must be like walking in the park for PS5. We need the official details of how much polygons are drawn (frame window polygon budget) before celebrating anything. But for true game enthusiasts this is a wonderful achievement, and the new one is a realistic goal for retail games at 1080p reconstructed to 4K.

It's not a GPU-power thing, otherwise even the new lite demo wouldn't have required 64GB of RAM and a Threadripper CPU if it was GPU-tied. It's how fast you can bring in and out the data. PS5's GPU isn't the big deal here unless for those doing brain gymnastics. Both PS5 and XSX are now considered low-end GPU's and both had the least problems with this new demo with barely 16GB of a single RAM (VRAM).

It's obvious that DirectStorage isn't ready yet for PC.
Dude the compiled version of the demo uses only 6-7 GB VRAM / 3-5 gb system RAM at native 4K at 30-40 fps.

Did you know the Kite demo from 2017 also needed 32 GB Ram for Editor? You are using a development tool the specs for it are different.

This demo doesn’t need 64GB ram compared to the PS5. It needs only 3-5GB ram.

What you are doing is misinformation.
The PS5 Demo was full of instances meshes including Quixel Mega Assemblies. The 500 statues were all instances. There weren’t 500 statues in memory there were only one. Including only the textures for that one.

Here is 1000 meshes, 10 million polygons each, 10 billion polygons total at 60 FPS and nanite doesn’t even feel it. This is without the almost two orders of magnitude improvement that DirectStorage and RTX IO will bring. To think it won’t run the original PS5 demo is ridiculous.

 
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Bo_Hazem

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Dude the compiled version of the demo uses only 6-7 GB VRAM / 3-5 gb system RAM at native 4K at 30-40 fps.

Did you know the Kite demo from 2017 also needed 32 GB Ram for Editor? You are using a development tool the specs for it are different.

This demo doesn’t need 64GB ram compared to the PS5. It needs only 3-5GB ram.

What you are doing is misinformation.
The PS5 Demo was full of instances meshes including Quixel Mega Assemblies. The 500 statues were all instances. There weren’t 500 statues in memory there were only one. Including only the textures for that one.

Here is 1000 meshes, 10 million polygons each, 10 billion polygons total at 60 FPS and nanite doesn’t even feel it. This is without the almost two orders of magnitude improvement that DirectStorage and RTX IO will bring. To think it won’t run the original PS5 demo is ridiculous.


This is meaningless without knowing the frame budget.
 
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MonarchJT

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Dude the compiled version of the demo uses only 6-7 GB VRAM / 3-5 gb system RAM at native 4K at 30-40 fps.

Did you know the Kite demo from 2017 also needed 32 GB Ram for Editor? You are using a development tool the specs for it are different.

This demo doesn’t need 64GB ram compared to the PS5. It needs only 3-5GB ram.

What you are doing is misinformation.
The PS5 Demo was full of instances meshes including Quixel Mega Assemblies. The 500 statues were all instances. There weren’t 500 statues in memory there were only one. Including only the textures for that one.

Here is 1000 meshes, 10 million polygons each, 10 billion polygons total at 60 FPS and nanite doesn’t even feel it. This is without the almost two orders of magnitude improvement that DirectStorage and RTX IO will bring. To think it won’t run the original PS5 demo is ridiculous.

i tried to explain him......@vfxveteran tried too... one thing to be passionate about a brand .... other not to understand the overhype about a specific. a PC with a very normal old-fashioned SSD and a 3070 GPU will run anything made in ue5 better than consoles and the superduper i/o can't do shit about it
 
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ripeavocado

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Absolutely wrong, John Linneman has a hardware engineering background and Richard Leadbetter was the Editor of gaming magazine Edge for years. They are the only analysis team who have first hand information from developers and publishers. I am pretty sure you're wrong 99% of time though.

Absolutely wrong, he has been working in the IT departments of some unnoteworthy companies for years before joining DF. You info is factually incorrect until you can prove it.

Being a game journalist doesn't make you an expert about rendering and software engineering, if anything it's a stain in your career that should make people take you less seriously, journalism these days is a joke and they prove it with their clickbait videos.
 

Woody337

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is it a coincidence that Unreal 5, Horizon ZD and Farcry 6 all get playable previews on consecutive days?

real nextgen graphics are coming for sure. Perhaps they will be even here before PS5 is widely available...
Both of those games are cross gen so they wont showcase everything unfortunately
 

ZywyPL

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Get the with the times, gramps. TAA these days has improved a ton and looks significantly better than FXAA and SMAA. Try Hitman 3, the glacier engine's TAA is overlooked for some reason but it has one of the best implementations of TAA with the perfect amount of sharpening producing pristine image quality.

Some, I repeat, SOME instances of TAA do get the job done right, I'll give you that, especially on PC where it's applied on a native res to begin with, where it's used only to get rid of the jaggies/shimmering, but overall, especially on consoles where it tries to both remove the jaggies AND get back missing details from half, or even just a quarter of native resolution, it's simply doesn't get the job done well, it leaves the whole image heavy blurred, as we can clearly see in the UE5 demo where all those beautiful 8K textures look like dogshit, like 1-2K ones.
 
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ripeavocado

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Dude the compiled version of the demo uses only 6-7 GB VRAM / 3-5 gb system RAM at native 4K at 30-40 fps.

Did you know the Kite demo from 2017 also needed 32 GB Ram for Editor? You are using a development tool the specs for it are different.

This demo doesn’t need 64GB ram compared to the PS5. It needs only 3-5GB ram.

What you are doing is misinformation.
The PS5 Demo was full of instances meshes including Quixel Mega Assemblies. The 500 statues were all instances. There weren’t 500 statues in memory there were only one. Including only the textures for that one.

Here is 1000 meshes, 10 million polygons each, 10 billion polygons total at 60 FPS and nanite doesn’t even feel it. This is without the almost two orders of magnitude improvement that DirectStorage and RTX IO will bring. To think it won’t run the original PS5 demo is ridiculous.


you know that it's not actually rendering 10 billion polygons right?

The great thing about Nanite is how well it scales them but it's not capable of coming up with insane performances on polygon rendering.
 

Rudius

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is it a coincidence that Unreal 5, Horizon ZD and Farcry 6 all get playable previews on consecutive days?

real nextgen graphics are coming for sure. Perhaps they will be even here before PS5 is widely available...
This used to be close to the time of E3, when we got announcements.

The PS5 is ahead of PS4 in total sales at the same time period. It's the fastest selling console of all time, it's just the demand that is higher than ever.
 
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Darius87

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Here is 1000 meshes, 10 million polygons each, 10 billion polygons total at 60 FPS and nanite doesn’t even feel it. This is without the almost two orders of magnitude improvement that DirectStorage and RTX IO will bring. To think it won’t run the original PS5 demo is ridiculous.
to confirm your theory we need to see PC running land of nanite flying part where IO gets above it's average usage i guess that's why that part was made to stress test PS5 SSD and not just same rocks placed at different angles in large area talking about latest demo, not saying it can't do it but wee need proof of that.
i suspect streaming tech between PS5 and PC in UE5 is totally different meaning PS5 streams everything behind FOV in very short time when needed(based on camera movement) pc streams levels in chunks based on distance between chunks which what we exactly saw dev explaining in new demo, meaning PS5 streaming is way more efficient not only faster.
also we need confirmation that PC runs UE5 demo at native 4K like you said because actually devs said it's close to 4K upscaled from 1080p which is not native.
 

staticshock

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to confirm your theory we need to see PC running land of nanite flying part where IO gets above it's average usage
No we don’t. Not saying it won’t be released because all Epic main demos are eventually released. I’m betting it’s waiting on DS release later this year.

You have all the tools ready to stress test the current version of nanite. You don’t need to wait on the demo.

i guess that's why that part was made to stress test PS5 SSD and not just same rocks placed at different angles in large area talking about latest demo, not saying it can't do it but wee need proof of that.
What do you mean? It’s not just some rocks. You can fly through the demo. You can do whatever you want. You can multiple assets by 1000x. You can duplicate that 50 million triangle monster 1000 times. You have most of the assets used on the land of the nanite demo ready in quixel at 8k/16k quality.

From quixel bridge and from the latest project released:
i suspect streaming tech between PS5 and PC in UE5 is totally different meaning PS5 streams everything behind FOV in very short time when needed(based on camera movement) pc streams levels in chunks based on distance between chunks which what we exactly saw dev explaining in new demo, meaning PS5 streaming is way more efficient not only faster.
No it isn’t. The engine makes use of what’s Aavailable

also we need confirmation that PC runs UE5 demo at native 4K like you said because actually devs said it's close to 4K upscaled from 1080p which is not native.
People are running it 4K native. You have all the proof that you need. You have the assets and project source. You have UE5.

Simply download it, compile and run.
You can also disable the reconstruction and run. It’s quite simple. You people make things hard and try to obsfucate.
 
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staticshock

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This is meaningless without knowing the frame budget.
What’s meaningless? I talked about 4 points there. Is that your way of dismissing the points because you don’t have a counter argument based on facts?

Again we have UE5, we have a sample project with assets from land of nanites.
We also have assets released from land of nanites on Quixel Bridge


so when do you want to begin this test?
I already showed you 10 million polygon mesh x 1000 equaling 10 billion polygons.

The statue in the PS5 demo was 33 million polygons each.
The monster in the Valley demo is over 50 million triangles.

Do you want to start by multiplying the monster by 500?

where do you want to start?

how about disabling reconstruction and compiling the Project?

Again you can’t use excuses. We have all the tools. The source code. The actual assets.

What do you want to do?
 

Haggard

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Can someone summarize what the last 10 pages of this thread are about?

Still the "but but but PS5 I/O >>> Anything PC"-nonsense ?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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What’s meaningless? I talked about 4 points there. Is that your way of dismissing the points because you don’t have a counter argument based on facts?

Again we have UE5, we have a sample project with assets from land of nanites.
We also have assets released from land of nanites on Quixel Bridge


so when do you want to begin this test?
I already showed you 10 million polygon mesh x 1000 equaling 10 billion polygons.

The statue in the PS5 demo was 33 million polygons each.
The monster in the Valley demo is over 50 million triangles.

Do you want to start by multiplying the monster by 500?

where do you want to start?

how about disabling reconstruction and compiling the Project?

Again you can’t use excuses. We have all the tools. The source code. The actual assets.

What do you want to do?

No disrespect to you, but I'm already done here and waiting for Horizon FW gameplay now. The monster is 15M though: (timestamped)




Anyway, it's great and that what matters. You may carry on the discussion with other members.
 

Guilty_AI

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Can someone summarize what the last 10 pages of this thread are about?

Still the "but but but PS5 I/O >>> Anything PC"-nonsense ?
Pretty much. Still amazes me how far into their own delusions about ps5's and i/o's and cerny's some people were.

But what can we do, its the same story every gen.




Anyway, these results are good. Though reading a bit on the people messing with the engine, the tech probably won't be able to be fully utilized until next gen.
Seems ray tracing for example doesn't go along well with nanite yet due to how they both are implemented.
 
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