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News Event Game Dev Unreal Engine 5 Deep Dive on May 26th

3liteDragon

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I answered this question in a previous thread like 2 weeks ago. Look in my history and you'll see where I quoted a few ppl saying that, even after Epic confirmed it would run on all platforms. I even quoted the ppl that said the demo wouldn't run on Xbox or PC/or have downgraded visuals a few posts up from here. You can even search GAF to find this as well.
Where’s the “Lumen in the Land of Nanite” demo then? Why hasn’t it been released to the public? Lol, I love how you’re all like “I would trust the Unreal 5 devs over some forum member“ but when Tim Sweeney of all people said the laptop was playing a video of last year’s demo running on the PS5 and that last year's demo wouldn't have been possible without the breakthroughs Sony's made, “hE’S iN a mArKEtiNg dEaL WiTH sOnY!!!” Funny enough I didn’t see PlayStation posting/promoting anything about this on their social media last year when the demo was released, dumb move on their part I guess for a non-existent "mARkeTiNG dEaL."

The new “Valley of the Ancient” demo looks amazing on all the platforms it was shown on and I can’t wait for that to become a standard this gen, I just personally found last year’s demo a bit more impressive. I don't remember seeing people here saying that UE5 itself was exclusive to PS5 when Epic themselves literally said it was scalable all the way down to smartphones, people were CLEARLY talking about LAST YEAR'S tech demo, not the engine itself.

One of the posts you quoted to "pRoVe aLL tHEm NaYsAyERs wRoNG" talking about last year's tech demo:
Until we see that, UE5 Demo is officially stated by the devs themselves it’s built around PS5 I/o. That’s the demo, not UE5 itself.

Is the demo scalable? Sure, it may just run with 1/4 the fidelity on a regular ssd for example.
But we need to be specific when talking about what was shown vs what’s possible.
You didn't even bother reading the post and as usual, you have no clue as to what you're even talking about. I might've missed it, but did they disclose the source polygon count difference between last year's demo and this demo and how many polygons were actually being rendered every frame? While both demos look great anyway, what I loved most about last year's "Lumen in the Land of Nanite" demo was the sheer geometric density and the ending part where the chick literally flies through all those structures while they're collapsing in real-time.

And for anyone wondering about the resolution of last year's demo:
 
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Captn

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Ohhh maybe it is the LG CX and 3090 issue... there is a HDMI signal the CX won’t accept with 3080/3090.

I have zero issues using both for the past 5 months with any programs or games and they both are awesome using hdmi 2.1 cable so no not that.

Thanks for trying to figure out the issue though.
 
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VFXVeteran

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"Lumen's secondary focus is on clean indoor lighting at 30 fps on next-generation consoles. The engine's Epic scalability level produces around 8 milliseconds (ms) on next-generation consoles for global illumination and reflections at 1080p internal resolution, relying on Temporal Super Resolution to output at quality approaching native 4k."

Got this quote over at the more civil site. Seems like 1080p might be the solution for the consoles running a full game with UE5's Lumen.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Where’s the “Lumen in the Land of Nanite” demo then? Why hasn’t it been released to the public? Lol, I love how you’re all like “I would trust the Unreal 5 devs over some forum member“ but when Tim Sweeney of all people said the laptop was playing a video of last year’s demo running on the PS5 and that last year's demo wouldn't have been possible without the breakthroughs Sony's made, “hE’S iN a mArKEtiNg dEaL WiTH sOnY!!!” Funny enough I didn’t see PlayStation posting/promoting anything about this on their social media last year when the demo was released, dumb move on their part I guess for a non-existent "mARkeTiNG dEaL."

The new “Valley of the Ancient” demo looks amazing on all the platforms it was shown on and I can’t wait for that to become a standard this gen, I just personally found last year’s demo a bit more impressive. I don't remember seeing people here saying that UE5 itself was exclusive to PS5 when Epic themselves literally said it was scalable all the way down to smartphones, people were CLEARLY talking about LAST YEAR'S tech demo, not the engine itself.

One of the posts you quoted to "pRoVe aLL tHEm NaYsAyERs wRoNG" talking about last year's tech demo:

You didn't even bother reading the post and as usual, you have no clue as to what you're even talking about. I might've missed it, but did they disclose the source polygon count difference between last year's demo and this demo and how many polygons were actually being rendered every frame? While both demos look great anyway, what I loved most about last year's "Lumen in the Land of Nanite" demo was the sheer geometric density and the ending part where the chick literally flies through all those structures while they're collapsing in real-time.

And for anyone wondering about the resolution of last year's demo:
I would trust the guys who actually worked on the demo themselves over a GAF forum member like yourself, or Tim Sweeney for that matter. He's high up in the company now and handles PR, unlike the devs that actually created the engine and demo. And they were 100% spot on with their findings in what they reported last year.

It doesn't help that the marketing deal was revealed wide open with Epic and Sony, which justifies what everyone already thought about a marketing deal. It literally solidified what everyone was already claiming.


A guy ran this demo with a 3090 and a fucking HDD with no hiccups, hitches, etc. The power of the SSD was a lie in this instance.
 
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Yeah I'm not actually up on tech enough to know but something feels off today to me. Doesn't look like a year's work later imo.

I remember previous demos, they showed the exact demos on pc and I remember downloading the balloons one with the kid, you could run it in a loop and watch it. Maybe the equivalent of the original demo comes later.

Maybe with that demo they were just focused on one platform? That could explain the additional level of polish since it was fine tuned for the platform.
 

Papacheeks

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It seems pretty evident that on PC they are just loading data into system RAM, and then streaming into VRAM from there?

That's why having an SSD or not doesn't matter.

I mean I think this showing of it is running on a SSD, but currently Direct Storage is not out yet for Direct X 12 for current cards to use. So it's basically brute forcing it from what It looks like.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Which demo and could you please link it?
The devs that created the game. The interview with the Chinese devs that broke down the tech in like an hour plus long interview. I believe there are links on beyond3d. But they gave hardware that the demo ran on, and it is spot on to people's findings today. If it can run amazing on a HDD or pci-3.0 SSD, like shown today, I don't see why they hyped up ps5 SSD... Until the marketing deal was revealed publically, and then it all made sense.
 

Kholinar

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I would trust the guys who actually worked on the demo themselves over a GAF forum member like yourself, or Tim Sweeney for that matter. He's high up in the company now and handles PR, unlike the devs that actually created the engine and demo. And they were 100% spot on with their findings in what they reported last year.

It doesn't help that the marketing deal was revealed wide open with Epic and Sony, which justifies what everyone already thought about a marketing deal. It literally solidified what everyone was already claiming.


A guy ran this demo with a 3090 and a fucking HDD with no hiccups, hitches, etc. The power of the SSD was a lie in this instance.
That's because PC is brute-forcing the SSD advantage with - and this isn't to be said lightly - 64 GIGS OF RAM + 8 GIGS OF VRAM.

So unless DirectStorage and RTX I/O are fucking scams as well, I guess we can expect consumers to buy 64 gigs of RAM for UE5 / next-gen titles? Stop being willfully obtuse, brother.
 

ethomaz

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It seems pretty evident that on PC they are just loading data into system RAM, and then streaming into VRAM from there?

That's why having an SSD or not doesn't matter.
The RAM requirement pretty much tells that... 64GB for 100% screen percentage and 32GB for 50% screen percentage.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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That's because PC is brute-forcing the SSD advantage with - and this isn't to be said lightly - 64 GIGS OF RAM + 8 GIGS OF VRAM.

So unless DirectStorage and RTX I/O are fucking scams as well, I guess we can expect consumers to buy 64 gigs of RAM for UE5 / next-gen titles? Stop being willfully obtuse, brother.
You don't need 64gb of RAM, which has been repeated to death already. Might as well edit your post, so others won't continue to be dead wrong like you are.

You can ask me the correct question again when you get it RIGHT. Your being blatantly obtuse for no reason.
 

IntentionalPun

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The devs that created the game. The interview with the Chinese devs that broke down the tech in like an hour plus long interview. I believe there are links on beyond3d. But they gave hardware that the demo ran on, and it is spot on to people's findings today. If it can run amazing on a HDD or pci-3.0 SSD, like shown today, I don't see why they hyped up ps5 SSD... Until the marketing deal was revealed publically, and then it all made sense.
Probably because the I/O enables the demo to run on a system that isn't using an enormous amount of RAM.

For PC it seems they are loading into system RAM ahead of time, then "streaming" to VRAM from there. So that is actually faster than the PS5 I/O, but obviously not incredibly efficient.. and wouldn't work on a console, or a phone.. and probably won't be feasible for actual released games on PC either.

We really won't know realistically what this all does for games until actual games are out. Particularly what devs will do w/ PC requirements for cross platform games vs. what Sony could do for a PS5 only game (since MS is a PC shop.) Sony might also be asking devs to make their games PC compatible.. but I also could see Sony allowing ridiculous RAM requirements on PC.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Probably because the I/O enables the demo to run on a system that isn't using an enormous amount of RAM.

For PC it seems they are loading into system RAM ahead of time, then "streaming" to VRAM from there. So that is actually faster than the PS5 I/O, but obviously not incredibly efficient.. and wouldn't work on a console, or a phone.. and probably won't be feasible for actual released games on PC either.

We really won't know realistically what this all does for games until actual games are out. Particularly what devs will do w/ PC requirements for cross platform games vs. what Sony could do for a PS5 only game (since MS is a PC shop.) Sony might also be asking devs to make their games PC compatible.. but I also could see Sony allowing ridiculous RAM requirements on PC.
I feel like 16 gb of ram was good to go for last gen games. And probably very feasible for the beginning of this gen at least. But I've been using 32gb of RAM from last gen, and have 64 now, just to be future proof. Not everyone will do that, but at the same time, there's no games that are using 16gb of RAM as the very minimum, more or less 32gb at the moment.

But I can definitely see more ram being more important than faster storage, at least till directstorage drops. But these demos can run perfectly fine, even without direct storage.
 

Md Ray

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A guy ran this demo with a 3090 and a fucking HDD with no hiccups, hitches, etc. The power of the SSD was a lie in this instance.
A static, slow-moving scene will have no issues when running off HDD.

Where SSD is crucial is in scenes like this for fast asset streaming. It wasn't a lie. This will be a slideshow on your HDD.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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A static, slow-moving scene will have no issues when running off HDD.

Where SSD is crucial is in scenes like this for fast asset streaming. It wasn't a lie.
He went through the portal, which changed the world. Under a second. And handled it with absolutely no issue. I just pray that all games don't end up in some shitty gimmick, where the industry implements shitty portals in every game. The only game to ever get it right is the game, Portal 1 & 2.
 

IntentionalPun

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A static, slow-moving scene will have no issues when running off HDD.

Where SSD is crucial is in scenes like this for fast asset streaming. It wasn't a lie. This will be a slideshow on your HDD.
It's not using the HDD to stream data.. it's using system RAM... faster than any I/O solution.

It probably has really long load times ahead of the demo starting.. we honestly don't know how realistic any of this shit will be on any system lol

Real games will probably use the tech to make much smaller models than what is in these demos, and they are really efficient at what they do. It's gonna be an awesome tool for devs, probably more than what people think will be some leap in graphics.
 
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VFXVeteran

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The RAM requirement pretty much tells that... 64GB for 100% screen percentage and 32GB for 50% screen percentage.
It's not required, it's recommended. I'll try to get some statistics here in a minute as I have 64G of RAM, and 3090.
 
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ethomaz

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It's not required, it's recommended. I'll try to get some statistics here in a minute as I have 64G of RAM, and 3090.
So why 32GB drops to 50%?
64GB is recommended for 100% screen percentage... 32GB is the minimum for 50% screen percentage.
 
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ethomaz

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I said SSD, not HDD.

Where does the system RAM get its data from?
There is a difference...
One think is the stream the assets from HDD/SDD on the fly.
Other is do a pre streaming to RAM and after do a stream to VRAM on the fly.

It probably has a load time to get the HDD/SSD data to RAM and after it runs without loading... that is why it requires that huge amount of RAM.
 
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IntentionalPun

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I feel like 16 gb of ram was good to go for last gen games. And probably very feasible for the beginning of this gen at least. But I've been using 32gb of RAM from last gen, and have 64 now, just to be future proof. Not everyone will do that, but at the same time, there's no games that are using 16gb of RAM as the very minimum, more or less 32gb at the moment.

But I can definitely see more ram being more important than faster storage, at least till directstorage drops. But these demos can run perfectly fine, even without direct storage.
The question becomes what will games released on PC actually require.

But there's also just a million questions about the future of this tech in general, what cross-platform games will use/target/etc.

It'll be a few years before we really see the fruits of this labor.. and in the mean time UE4 and other engines are going to be pushing insane graphics anyways... it PROBABLY won't feel like some insane leap when it comes time to see real games.
 
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IntentionalPun

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I said SSD, not HDD.

Where does the system RAM get its data from?
You also said HDD.. point was it's not streaming from your drive, it's "streaming" from system RAM into the GPU...that is readily apparent from the lack of any I/O requirement and the high RAM requirement.

The data is likely pre-loaded in it's entirety into system RAM, then streamed from there into the GPU. The difference between HDD/SDD/NVME would probably then just be that pre-load time.
 

ethomaz

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Thats the point. Lumin gives you better than baked quality without having to fucking bake. Lumen is fully dynamic, baked is not. This means open world games with day night cycles can have baked quality.
If Lunem is less expensive to the hardware then it is a good thing.
 
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Croatoan

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If Lunem is less expensive to the hardware then it is a good thing.
Uhh, Lumin is far more resource intensive than baked lighting. But we have these beefy computers for a reason, and its time to force people to upgrade to play games. Light baking needs to die in a fire.

Baked lighting = static GI solution (you cannot change it at runtime)

Lumin = fully dynamic (can change during runtime)

Yall don't understand how much I loathe baking lights in game engines. Its a pain in the ass and I am glad it is on its death bed. Sorry, you will have to upgrade that 1060.
 
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TheTechnician

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hey folks i downloaded the UE5 Editor as well - how can i acess the Demo shown in the Video? It opens the UE5 and i can choose between stuff but the new demo is not there..
 

ethomaz

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"The purpose of this video is to test UE5 next-gen features under extreme low I/O capabilities."

Weird because the Demo require higher RAM not I/O capabilities... it should run even in very slow HDD... it will only affect how much time it takes to load the data to the memory... the initial load.

But the guy disabled comments.
 
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Croatoan

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well, yes, that's what Nanite does. Some in this thread would have you believe 'source' polygons imply power levels like the billions and billions of polygons from PS5 :p
I find it strange people are so hung up on this Nanite thing. Like, people, nanite is very simple. It decimates (lowers the poly count) of high poly meshes and then recomputes the normals while also automatically creating LODS (RIP SIMPLYGON?). That's all it does. Why the fuck are people yelling about Millions vs billions of polygons? Yall realize even if its on the lower end it blows away, by an order of magnitude, the amount of polys current game engines can handle right? We should all be super happy about this! Like, wtf is with the dick waving contest and bickering in this thread.

Why do I have a feeling its the non-devs fighting over semantics in here... :messenger_dizzy:

One thing I will say is that 10 - 100 terabyte harddrives are going to have to become a thing and soon. Games are about to balloon out in size. I am talking 300GB-1tb in size within the next 10 years.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Uhh, Lumin is far more resource intensive than baked lighting. But we have these beefy computers for a reason, and its time to force people to upgrade to play games. Light baking needs to die in a fire.

Baked lighting = static GI solution (you cannot change it at runtime)

Lumin = fully dynamic (can change during runtime)

Yall don't understand how much I loathe baking lights in game engines. Its a pain in the ass and I am glad it is on its death bed. Sorry, you will have to upgrade that 1060.
Absolutely 100% agree. It's a pain in the ass.

Would like to note that RT GI is also realtime.