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Opinion TV's Vs Monitors, and Why TV's Make Much More Sense for Next Gen Consoles

Bo_Hazem

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I have to say, the graphical hit is enormous at 4K@120Hz for X900H, I hope they fix it, or probably it's beyond the X1 processor powers to keep up. Samsung looks taller with slightly more vision up and down and less on the sides compared to CX and X900H, strange thing and not sure why the measurement isn't universal. Samsung performance is pretty bad in blooming considering it's 4x times the local dimming of X900H, and overall image doesn't look good. I was surprised though of how close X900H looks compared to CX.

I might skip X900H and wait for another year if by early 2021 Sony announces X950I* to have HDMI 2.1 full support.
 
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Kuranghi

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Mate, you'll add double the input lag, and no you can't, and don't need to. Do you have a problem with 60fps?

Do you know whats funny is if you have a 60hz display (My TV is 120hz, but 60hz at 4K due to no HDMI 2.1/the chipset) and you run it at 60hz v-sync, you feel a certain level of lag and if you run it at 30hz v-sync it feels much more sluggish like you say, but if you set the v-sync to 60hz half-rate v-sync then it feels waaay better than 30hz, not quite as good as 60hz I don't think but much much closer to that than how 30hz felt.

I found this out recently when I was trying to run Far Cry 5: New Dawn and want to pass it on to people who might not know.
 

makaveli60

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Mate, you'll add double the input lag, and no you can't, and don't need to. Do you have a problem with 60fps?
I'm 99% single player, a small input lag is not a problem for me, and yes, I hate the soap opera effect of 60fps.

It wouldn't work like that unfortunately, even 1.4 would carry a 4K60 + HDR signal if its "high speed" branded. I think the only way to do what you want (drop half the frames on a 60hz signal to effectively give you 30fps) is with expensive HW that goes inbetween the PS5 and the TV and modifies the signal - hundreds or thousands of £/$ likely.

The only way to do what you want without spending tons is on PC... but then you gotta buy a (maybe) expensive PC lol

You should look into it though, because if you like 30 over 60, then maybe 24 would look even better to you. Which would mean you could run games at higher settings + much higher resolution more with less spent on a GPU. I'd say if you get an RTX 3070 ($499) you could do 4K24 + max settings in every game for YEARS. Maybe even 6/8K downsampling in games (the engine downsamples it to 4K automatically) at 24 fps. Would be sweet.
Sad to hear that. I don't want to game on pc but yeah, that would be the obvious solution for this.
 
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Kuranghi

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I have to say, the graphical hit is enormous at 4K@120Hz for X900H, I hope they fix it, or probably it's beyond the X1 processor powers to keep up. Samsung looks taller with slightly more vision up and down and less on the sides compared to CX and X900H, strange thing and not sure why the measurement isn't universal. Samsung performance is pretty bad in blooming considering it's 4x times the local dimming of X900H, and overall image doesn't look good. I was surprised though of how close X900H looks compared to CX.

I might skip X900H and wait for another year if by early 2021 Sony announces X950I* to have HDMI 2.1 full support.

I recommend this if you can, I think it will be X950J because they always skip i/I because of its resembelance to 1/l

I hope there will be another 4K Master Series before 8K takes over, but I'm not counting on it, the Z9/Master Series seems to be 8K now and even this new "Z8" is 8K. I think if its 8K it needs a lot more that 320 zones at 65", like at least ~2500 lol, ie not gonna happen without miniLED or something else new.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Yeah, Sony is a MAGICAL brand. What is that nonsense, watch and read tests ffs. Sony's claim of being BEST for GAMING is factually wrong. End of story. You can laugh all you want now, idc.

Truth actually is there is no best for gaming tv. Each with its negatives and positives, with C9/CX being the most complete overall but with 30-24fps stutter, burn-in/image-retention, and gimped brightness via AI to avoid burn-in.

It's not a clean cut, pick what you think is best for you, and be happy with it.
 
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Kuranghi

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I'm 99% single player, a small input lag is not a problem for me, and yes, I hate the soap opera effect of 60fps.


Sad to hear that. I don't want to game on pc but yeah, that would be the obvious solution for this.

I didn't really give the happy side which is that games with Ray-Tracing and/or "Quality" and "Performance" modes seem be becoming much more common on PS5/XSX so I think with Sony you'll more often that not have a choice of 30hz output with ace graphics, so its gonna be a good gen for you. I doubt they will emulate microsoft in the "Most games will be 60hz" idea.
 
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MrS

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True actually is, there is no best for gaming tv. Each with its negatives and positives, with C9/CX being the most complete overall but with 30-24fps stutter, burn-in/image-retention, and gimped brightness via AI to avoid burn-in.

It's not a clean cut, pick what you think is best for you, and be happy with it.
Still so happy with my C9. Really intrigued to see what LG will do next year though. Need another TV for the front room 👀
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Still so happy with my C9. Really intrigued to see what LG will do next year though. Need another TV for the front room 👀

I would say if you wait for the 2021 batch you might be happier, but if you get X900H at a big size for a good price then it might serve you well as you already have the C9.
 
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Kuranghi

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Still so happy with my C9. Really intrigued to see what LG will do next year though. Need another TV for the front room 👀

Is the front TV for watching only or gaming too? If only movies, etc then I'd go Sony because movies will look better on it than on an LG, especially sub-4K and lower quality content. If its OLED and you use motion interpolation for movies then Sony does that better so you'll see much much less artifacting/tearing/morphing/weird blurry borders.
 
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MrS

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Is the front TV for watching only or gaming too? If only movies, etc then I'd go Sony because movies will look better on it than on an LG, especially sub-4K and lower quality content. If its OLED and you use motion interpolation for movies then Sony does that better so you'll see much much less artifacting/tearing/morphing/weird blurry borders.
Probably light use/films/youtube as I'll be absolutely caning the C9 when it comes to gaming. Thank you for the advice.
 
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makaveli60

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I didn't really give the happy side which is that games with Ray-Tracing and/or "Quality" and "Performance" modes seem be becoming much more common on PS5/XSX so I think with Sony you'll more often that not have a choice of 30hz output with ace graphics, so its gonna be a good gen for you. I doubt they will emulate microsoft in the "Most games will be 60hz" idea.
Yeah, I really hope that will be the case. Actually AC Valhalla made me wonder about this. I hoped that will also have different modes for fidelity and performance but it seems it won't unfortunately.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Yeah, I really hope that will be the case. Actually AC Valhalla made me wonder about this. I hoped that will also have different modes for fidelity and performance but it seems it won't unfortunately.

It's funny I actually like 30fps feel with 3rd person games that aren't too fast. The cinematic feel of it. Games at 60fps usually look extremely gamey.
 

makaveli60

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It's funny I actually like 30fps feel with 3rd person games that aren't too fast. The cinematic feel of it. Games at 60fps usually look extremely gamey.
Yep, exactly. 30 fps is more immersive and cinematic to me as well. Though watch what you write, we might get butchered for saying things like this around here:messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

makaveli60

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Yeah, it's a blasphemy to some to have different tastes in gaming. :lollipop_tears_of_joy: Racing/shooters must be 60fps though.
I don't get why is this such a controversial opinion. Different people have different priorities. I can understand that for many people input lag and responsiveness is the most important but for some reason thes people can't accept that for me it's graphics, immersiveness and the cinematic feel.
Btw, I also prefer 30fps in those types too. You still can't show me a better looking racer than Driveclub and no one can argue that it had no feeling of speed despite being 30fps. I haven't played any 60fps racer that gave me a better sense of speed, it was the opposite actually.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I don't get why is this such a controversial opinion. Different people have different priorities. I can understand that for many people input lag and responsiveness is the most important but for some reason thes people can't accept that for me it's graphics, immersiveness and the cinematic feel.
Btw, I also prefer 30fps in those types too. You still can't show me a better looking racer than Driveclub and no one can argue that it had no feeling of speed despite being 30fps. I haven't played any 60fps racer that gave me a better sense of speed, it was the opposite actually.

DriveClub has the best sounds, best graphics, best feel of speed and yet had organic backfires that happen randomly like real life and different types. It had so much attention to details that if it had a PS5 sequel it'll make us melt!

30fps tends to hide imperfections of AI motion, only very few games can look organic at 60fps like GOW and other 1st party games + RDR2. Same with videographers that usually prefer 24fps over 30-60fps. I prefer 60fps for clarity though in filming nature.
 

makaveli60

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DriveClub has the best sounds, best graphics, best feel of speed and yet had organic backfires that happen randomly like real life and different types. It had so much attention to details that if it had a PS5 sequel it'll make us melt!

30fps tends to hide imperfections of AI motion, only very few games can look organic at 60fps like GOW and other 1st party games + RDR2. Same with videographers that usually prefer 24fps over 30-60fps. I prefer 60fps for clarity though in filming nature.
Same here, nature videos are the only where i think 60 fps looks better.

I hope that 4k30 fidelity and 4k60 performance modes will be the norm this gen. This way everyone can be happy. Though I can't help but wonder what some studios like ND could do at 1440p30...
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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I have to say, the graphical hit is enormous at 4K@120Hz for X900H, I hope they fix it, or probably it's beyond the X1 processor powers to keep up. Samsung looks taller with slightly more vision up and down and less on the sides compared to CX and X900H, strange thing and not sure why the measurement isn't universal. Samsung performance is pretty bad in blooming considering it's 4x times the local dimming of X900H, and overall image doesn't look good. I was surprised though of how close X900H looks compared to CX.

I might skip X900H and wait for another year if by early 2021 Sony announces X950I* to have HDMI 2.1 full support.
So you haven't tried it yourself?

It looks great and is barely noticeable.

This processor is the same that will be used next year so if this is a issue to you it will be next year as well.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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So you haven't tried it yourself?

It looks great and is barely noticeable.

This processor is the same that will be used next year so if this is a issue to you it will be next year as well.

I'm looking at his video, and it's a bit extreme honestly. I wanted 4K@120Hz mode not for 120fps, but for better input lag at even 30fps. So if the difference is big from a youtube channel of both side by side, it's more obvious in person. Anyway, I'm waiting until 2021 before I buy one, or wait for 2021 models. My 2016 Sony had that processor by the way, higher models have better processors but not compatible with HDMI 2.1 so far. Will see what 2021 will offer then wait or get a 65-75" X900H at a better price.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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I'm looking at his video, and it's a bit extreme honestly. I wanted 4K@120Hz mode not for 120fps, but for better input lag at even 30fps. So if the difference is big from a youtube channel of both side by side, it's more obvious in person. Anyway, I'm waiting until 2021 before I buy one, or wait for 2021 models. My 2016 Sony had that processor by the way, higher models have better processors but not compatible with HDMI 2.1 so far. Will see what 2021 will offer then wait or get a 65-75" X900H at a better price.
It's barely noticeable.
In person looks better not worse and you are wrong about the processor as the X900H uses the fastest,most powerful chip out of all of the Sony tv's.

MediaTek MT5895 in the X900H smokes the others and is needed for 4K/120/VRR/ALLM 48gbs HDMI 2.1 in Sony tv's.

It's also the only Sony chip that has hardware Dolby Vision.

Sony is using it in it's future TV's but it's young so certain features are going to take time to be unlocked.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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It's barely noticeable.
In person looks better not worse and you are wrong about the processor as the X900H uses the fastest,most powerful chip out of all of the Sony tv's.

MediaTek MT5895 in the X900H smokes the others and is needed for 4K/120/VRR/ALLM 48gbs HDMI 2.1 in Sony tv's.

It's also the only Sony chip that has hardware Dolby Vision.

Sony is using it in it's future TV's but it's young so certain features are going to take time to be unlocked.

Well, maybe PC mode makes it look worse. But would wait to see other reviews as well. And thanks for the extra details. In any case, I got plenty of spending stuff to due up until January, then get X900H around that time or see what 2021 Sony has to offer. Overall, I won't touch any other brand as I'm already very satisfied with my budget XD70 4 years of non-stop support and updates and good image/color/details and that's without local dimming.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Well, maybe PC mode makes it look worse. But would wait to see other reviews as well. And thanks for the extra details. In any case, I got plenty of spending stuff to due up until January, then get X900H around that time or see what 2021 Sony has to offer. Overall, I won't touch any other brand as I'm already very satisfied with my budget XD70 4 years of non-stop support and updates and good image/color/details and that's without local dimming.

If you don't need 4K/120...
Try for a older Sony set maybe?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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If you don't need 4K/120...
Try for a older Sony set maybe?

Nah, would get it just in case. My budget queue is in starvation mode though with plenty of electronics to buy, along with Sony a7S III + lenses, new phone, all in cash. Might change my bank account to get some 12-month plans. But would rather go XH95 than older tv. X900H still feels perfect overall for the current offerings.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Nah, would get it just in case. My budget queue is in starvation mode though with plenty of electronics to buy, along with Sony a7S III + lenses, new phone, all in cash. Might change my bank account to get some 12-month plans. But would rather go XH95 than older tv. X900H still feels perfect overall for the current offerings.
I would go older than the X950H as I find the 900H to have better blacks,contrast,motion and it's 4k/120hz.

If you want a significant difference look for a Z9F and it you are real lucky a Z9D.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I would go older than the X950H as I find the 900H to have better blacks,contrast,motion and it's 4k/120hz.

If you want a significant difference look for a Z9F and it you are real lucky a Z9D.

I'll get an HDMI 2.1 tv, won't get something less. It's either X900H, or newer Sony TV's. :messenger_ok:
 

makaveli60

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I have a question again, just for you guys.
So I'm playing Watch Dogs Legion in HDR and if I don't set the HDMI video range to limited, it looks washed it. With limited, it looks awesome, but it seems strange that I have to do this. I also had to this with AC Odyssey. What could be the reason for this? What does that setting even do?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I have a question again, just for you guys.
So I'm playing Watch Dogs Legion in HDR and if I don't set the HDMI video range to limited, it looks washed it. With limited, it looks awesome, but it seems strange that I have to do this. I also had to this with AC Odyssey. What could be the reason for this? What does that setting even do?

Yes, I always close HDR in Ubisoft games. But RDR2 is the shittiest in HDR. Only PS Studios are spot-on with HDR.
 

Bo_Hazem

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I'm sorry mate but I don't get it. What do you mean by "close HDR"?

Go to options and shut it down. Ubisoft games already look like HDR even at SDR, but RDR2 looks fucking disgusting with HDR and pretty dark in SDR even after calibrating it in the options menu.
 
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makaveli60

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Go to options and shut it down. Ubisoft games already look like HDR even at SDR, but RDR2 looks fucking disgusting with HDR and pretty dark in SDR even after calibrating it in the options menu.
But that's the thing. Ubi games look better to me in hdr than sdr, it's just that I have to set hdmi video range to limited for it. I'd like to know what's the reason for this and what does that setting do exactly.
 
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Rac3r

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Wtf. The news about the 4k@120 blur on the X900H is really disappointing. Would I be better off keeping my X950H?
 
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Kuranghi

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I will now say in all cases if you want a 2.1 TV then wait til 2021, there are so many problems across both panel types and the brands that support it. Maybe this is why Sony didn't really go in with VRR/2.1 features as much as Samsung and LG.

* Samsung & LG have the VRR Gamma issues in 2.1 + Sam only massive PQ reduction in game mode + LG problems with Chroma subsampling in 4K60/120 HDR.
* Sony has the image quality reduction in 4K@120hz

I still think a Sony OLED is the way to go for best image quality + motion but it seems suboptimal not to wait til 2021 for more sets with 2.1 in them, the gaming features of LG OLEDs and hopefully with these VRR issues worked out.

We are constantly hearing how C9/CX is the best TV for gaming because it has VRR and lower input lag. Except the VRR doesn't work properly and there are HDR gaming problems. IMO, for people playing at 30 fps singleplayer games a reduction of input lag of <10ms is imperceptible given the total other lag introduced by the engine, controller and other factors.

I will include this video of Spiderman running at 60fps, they captured the game at its PS4 framerate of 30fps and then used an offline framerate interpolater to increase the effective framerate to 60fps, if you don't notice any video artifacts (tearing, morphing, wobbling parts of the image when they move fast, clear "jelly" borders around objects moving) with this video then you don't need to worry about the image quality/motion being better on Sony OLEDs, but that does still leave the problems that are mentioned above:

 
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Antelope

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Sad to see the 900h is having issues. It’s always a gamble buying new tech.

I was going to get one, but I jumped on a fire sale 950g and I am very happy camper. For 200 less than a new 900h, I went from 40 inches to 55, 1080p to 4k. That’s plenty for me. Maybe I’ll upgrade in a few years, but honestly I really doubt 4k/120 is going to be a common thing on consoles. Vrr is nice though.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Sad to see the 900h is having issues. It’s always a gamble buying new tech.

I was going to get one, but I jumped on a fire sale 950g and I am very happy camper. For 200 less than a new 900h, I went from 40 inches to 55, 1080p to 4k. That’s plenty for me. Maybe I’ll upgrade in a few years, but honestly I really doubt 4k/120 is going to be a common thing on consoles. Vrr is nice though.

You won't need though, and for VRR if you're not too competitive VSYNC will make you have zero tearing, which is on by default.
 

Kuranghi

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Sad to see the 900h is having issues. It’s always a gamble buying new tech.

I was going to get one, but I jumped on a fire sale 950g and I am very happy camper. For 200 less than a new 900h, I went from 40 inches to 55, 1080p to 4k. That’s plenty for me. Maybe I’ll upgrade in a few years, but honestly I really doubt 4k/120 is going to be a common thing on consoles. Vrr is nice though.

950G smashes the 900H in terms of picture quality mate, you made the right decision.

* Nearly double the number of dimming zones: 60 instead of 32
* Much better picture processor: X1 Ultimate instead of X1 (2020 ver.)
* Better colour accuracy

Its a lovely set mate, enjoy!
 
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Anki

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Well finally my sony x9005f arrived. Going from 50” to 65” is huge jump. I still cannot adjust to the size. Tv is great, amazing picture quality and hdr looks great.

I have only two negatives, first when i watch netflix Tv turns on dolby vision automatically and subtitles are way to bright, i fixed this by going to netflix settings and selecting subtitles to be semi transparent, now its fine on hdr but on sdr they look washed out.

And second thing is when i connect my macbook pro 13” 2015 to watch some movies they are stuttering, apparently my laptop cannot playback movies smoothly when its connected to 4k source :).

Anyway i am very pleased with the tv.

Edit: oh yeah, android tv is sluggish iam not sure if its worth getting apple tv just because of that.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Wtf. The news about the 4k@120 blur on the X900H is really disappointing. Would I be better off keeping my X950H?
It's not a issue with the PS5,not everyone is having the issue and when the Android 11 update comes(that adds VRR/ALLM) it MIGHT fix the PC issues.
 
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Rac3r

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It's not a issue with the PS5,not everyone is having the issue and when the Android 11 update comes(that adds VRR/ALLM) it MIGHT fix the PC issues.

I actually bought the X900H a couple of days ago and I have absolutely no regrets, the TV is amazing! Glad to hear that the 4k/120 blur shouldn't affect the PS5, let's hope the VRR update comes soon.
 

LokusAbriss

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I see people recommending the sony 950g. Wouldn't the newest 950h be better?
The newer models have much faster processors inside. The android os in the x900h is really fast and snappy. Something to think about, when using the smart tv features.

The 950h might be better than x900h in picture quality, but more games than I expected come with a 120fps mode, so I am more than happy with my x900h. But you definetly see the lower amount of dimming zones compared to the 950h. Nothing I care about to much.
 

OmegaSupreme

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Anyone have experience with the hisense h9g? Keeping in mind movie watching is my primary focus. Looks like a good budget pick.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Anyone have experience with the hisense h9g? Keeping in mind movie watching is my primary focus. Looks like a good budget pick.

I bought it sadly it had buggy firmware but I got it when it first launched.

For just movie watching if you get a clean source this TV looks amazing.

Its upscaling to 4K isn’t great but again if you have a good source this TV is amazing.

The native contrast ratio is great, has amazing deep blacks and has a very nice 1000 nits so the HDR really pops.

It is a great budget TV and for watching movies you probably won’t beat it at its price.