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[VGEsoterica]

If you know of me at all...I have a soft spot for rare, exotic and unloved hardware and games. That soft spot grows bigger for the 3DO M2. I had it pre-ordered, it never released...and kid me was bummed out! So MANY years later (25 to be exact) I am a little bit older, a little bit wiser...and a little bit more foolish.

So a group of us decided...why shouldn't the hardware that exists (Panasonic FZ-21 and FZ-35) run actual games? Not just two beta experiences and a few demos? Konami released five arcade exclusive games on M2 variant hardware for arcade cabinets....shouldn't those run on all M2 hardware?

So...that's what we did! Starting today the 3DO M2 is getting a real game library. Tobe! Polystars first, following up with the four other M2 games. (Battle Tryst, Evil Night, Total Vice and Heat of Eleven 98)

Since I found the keys necessary to deal with signing...after that it will be all the alpha games, demos and the like...running on the FZ-21 home console hardware that Panasonic sold...just not as a video game console.

Sure the hardware is still rare...and sure its niche...but if you can do something...why not? Plus never know...maybe one day FPGA 3DO M2. Because more projects are always fun.

To the rare few on GAF that own this hardware...have fun! For the rest of you....hope you are entertained by it

but GAF...what game/hardware that was cancelled just broke your child selfs heart? Because for me its M2...but we all have that story!

 

[Diseased Yak]

This is... AWESOME! I SOoo wanted the M2 as well! Was so mad when it never came to fruition. I still have my Panasonic FZ-1, and when I last checked, it still worked! This makes me want to get it all hooked up again. Definitely will be watching how your projects go!

 

[VGEsoterica]

This is... AWESOME! I SOoo wanted the M2 as well! Was so mad when it never came to fruition. I still have my Panasonic FZ-1, and when I last checked, it still worked! This makes me want to get it all hooked up again. Definitely will be watching how your projects go!

should be more fun coming soonish...on the Polystars front for sure

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Great work VGE. This is some extremely important stuff in terms of preserving gaming history, and there's so much mystique around the M2.

It would be amazing if the M2 got a homebrew dev community the way systems like Saturn, Neo-Geo, SNES, Dreamcast etc. have but I figure that would require getting some big documentation available and some SDK access, which are likely a ways off.

 

[German Hops]

I've been waiting so long for this..

 

[VGEsoterica]

I've been waiting so long for this..

Today is the day it all gets kicked off

 

[sinnergy]

SNES CD addon broke my heart for not releasing, when mega cd did

 

[Havoc2049]

Are there many M2 consoles in the wild? Are they all just developer consoles?

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Seeing stuff like this makes me wonder how many older consoles left power on the table for whatever reason. You see those old videos of Shenmue pre-Alpha running on Saturn and you realize a system like that was never really tapped into the way it could have been, or even the PS3 for that matter due to The Cell.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Seeing stuff like this makes me wonder how many older consoles left power on the table for whatever reason. You see those old videos of Shenmue pre-Alpha running on Saturn and you realize a system like that was never really tapped into the way it could have been, or even the PS3 for that matter due to The Cell.

Shenmue would have been hideous on the Saturn, imagine running in the streets with all that pop-in...with a low frame rate to boot, and mesh transparencies....

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Shenmue would have been hideous on the Saturn, imagine running in the streets with all that pop-in...with a low frame rate to boot, and mesh transparencies....

You are correct, but the fact that it was able to run in at all was impressive. Really showed what the Saturn was capable of in the right hands.

 

[RAIDEN1]

You are correct, but the fact that it was able to run in at all was impressive. Really showed what the Saturn was capable of in the right hands.

Hands that were too few and far between, in the sense that unless you were Sega then you could probably push the system, anyone else found it too complicated compared to the the PS-X

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Hands that were too few and far between, in the sense that unless you were Sega then you could probably push the system, anyone else found it too complicated compared to the the PS-X

Yes, the older bespoke early 3D hardware was really something else, way too complicated. Saturn especially.

 

[coffinbirth]

Very, very cool!
I'm happy for you and all that have this odd piece of gaming history in their collections.

On the subject, have there been any improvements to these games running in MAME? Speed/sound issues?

 

[German Hops]

in the sense that unless you were Sega

Not to derail the thread, but yeah, Sega's arcade division were bona fide wizards with Saturn hardware.

Everyone else.. not so much.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Hands that were too few and far between, in the sense that unless you were Sega then you could probably push the system, anyone else found it too complicated compared to the the PS-X

It's actually not so much the Saturn was too complicated compared to PS1, it's that Sega provided comparatively poor SDK support to simplify the development process for developers. There were some hardware bottlenecks in the design, like not having a fat enough bus for the two SH-2s to share without having one need to wait, but those complications would have been massively mitigated if the SDK support for higher-level languages was as robust as Sony's with PS1.

Ironically the only reason PS1 was so easy to develop for is because Sony's acquisition of Psygnosis put them in contact with SN Systems, who helped make a much better SDK than what Sony were offering to devs at the time. Sony worked with SN Systems ever since and then acquired them in the 2000s.

Yes, the older bespoke early 3D hardware was really something else, way too complicated. Saturn especially.

The N64 was not much easier and in some ways more difficult to work with than Saturn. No dedicated audio processor, too narrow a bus for its memory, high RAM latency (compared to Saturn & PS1's RAM), crude implementation of UMA, locking off programmability of the RSP's microcode etc.

All three systems that gen had strengths and weaknesses but there feels like a myth the N64 was only as "complicated" to work with so far as using cartridges. In retrospect it seems like it had a lot of other complexities which in some ways were more than what Saturn devs had to deal with. Also, I never saw anything where Saturn engineers stated they deliberately wanted Saturn to be hard to program for.

 

[Redneckerz]

VGEsoterica very cool that you are able to convert the arcade games to the FZ-21 (The FZ-35 too?)

But.. how would you run these? Can you explain?

 

[VGEsoterica]

Very, very cool!
I'm happy for you and all that have this odd piece of gaming history in their collections.

On the subject, have there been any improvements to these games running in MAME? Speed/sound issues?

Nothing on the MAME side yet. Maybe next year

 

[Dane]

I wonder how far D2 was on M2, shame a build hasn't surfaced yet.

 

[VGEsoterica]

I wonder how far D2 was on M2, shame a build hasn't surfaced yet.

Right? Only playable files ever found I released a few years ago after I found them. But I am always hunting

From what I’ve gathered…most environments were nearing completion. But no gameplay was really added

 

[Azelover]

Shenmue would have been hideous on the Saturn, imagine running in the streets with all that pop-in...with a low frame rate to boot, and mesh transparencies....

Legend says they were planning an add on to boost performance, and potentially get VF3 running too. It was never confirmed though..

 

[Drew1440]

Legend says they were planning an add on to boost performance, and potentially get VF3 running too. It was never confirmed though..

That was the cutdown version of the Real3D chip that was used in the Model 3, they supposedly aborted that in favor of Dreamcast (Katana/Dural) development.

Great work VGE. This is some extremely important stuff in terms of preserving gaming history, and there's so much mystique around the M2.

It would be amazing if the M2 got a homebrew dev community the way systems like Saturn, Neo-Geo, SNES, Dreamcast etc. have but I figure that would require getting some big documentation available and some SDK access, which are likely a ways off.

Wasn't the SDK leaked a while back? I recall someone messing around with an old PowerMac that was able to run a few M2 demos. Personally I'd love to see the M2 replicated as an FPGA core with a few homebrew ports to it, like OpenLaura (Tomb Raider) and a proper Doom port.

 

[VGEsoterica]

That was the cutdown version of the Real3D chip that was used in the Model 3, they supposedly aborted that in favor of Dreamcast (Katana/Dural) development.

Wasn't the SDK leaked a while back? I recall someone messing around with an old PowerMac that was able to run a few M2 demos. Personally I'd love to see the M2 replicated as an FPGA core with a few homebrew ports to it, like OpenLaura (Tomb Raider) and a proper Doom port.

The source code to the SDK was released, by me

 

[The Pleasure]

The source code to the SDK was released, by me

Quit releasing shit. You're ruining the mystery of the M2! Next you're gonna release the 3dfx version of the dreamcast.

 

[manzo]

What an absolute joy to watch this while having my Saturday morning coffee. I love this stuff, keep up to good work VGEsoterica !

 

[VGEsoterica]

Quit releasing shit. You're ruining the mystery of the M2! Next you're gonna release the 3dfx version of the dreamcast.

Lol I wish. I’ll ruin the mystery of everything if I can get my hands on it. Sharing is caring

 

[jigglet]

N64 DD. It would have been shit but I had convinced myself it would be the best thing ever.

 

[UnNamed]

Are you a developer or what? I always thought of you as a person interested in retrogames who just make videos about obscure games (on obscuregames)

but GAF...what game/hardware that was cancelled just broke your child selfs heart? Because for me its M2...but we all have that story!

For me is the SNES CDROM. I loved that project back in the day, I dreamt about new Mario games with new animations, new tech, etc. I used to talk about it every day with my friends, I was very very nerd at the time, and buy it at the release.

I was really disappointed when Nintendo cancelled the hardware. They had valid reasons, but still.

It's a pity there is just one homebrew game and no emulator. Someone should work more on this system.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Are you a developer or what? I always thought of you as a person interested in retrogames who just make videos about obscure games (on obscuregames)



For me is the SNES CDROM. I loved that project back in the day, I dreamt about new Mario games with new animations, new tech, etc. I used to talk about it every day with my friends, I was very very nerd at the time, and buy it at the release.

I was really disappointed when Nintendo cancelled the hardware. They had valid reasons, but still.

It's a pity there is just one homebrew game and no emulator. Someone should work more on this system.

No I am not a developer. I am a filmmaker with a gaming hobby.

But I can do some stuff. I released that M2 demo disc last year that I did in the SDK. I’ve reverse engineered some of the protection on the boards. I do very custom conversions of rare boards to new controls / standards.

So I’m not just a channel that talks about stuff, but my skills in coding are minimal because I am a filmmaker with a film degree

 

[The Pleasure]

No I am not a developer. I am a filmmaker with a gaming hobby.

But I can do some stuff. I released that M2 demo disc last year that I did in the SDK. I’ve reverse engineered some of the protection on the boards. I do very custom conversions of rare boards to new controls / standards.

So I’m not just a channel that talks about stuff, but my skills in coding are minimal because I am a filmmaker with a film degree

So, Mr. BOONDY. Are you going to regale us about Kenji Inos D2 on M2?

 

[deriks]

1997 hardware that has DVD?! And look at this resolution!!! Goddamn. This could be the shit!

Also, this makes the Dreamcast looks even morr sad with GD instead of DVD

 

[Alebrije]

I loved my 3D0 and the M2 was my more expected console those years...even got a catalog from 3D0 for future M2 games.

Saddly M2 was cancelled.

Nice to hear about this project.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

This is my favorite retro gamin thing right now!

 

[VGEsoterica]

So, Mr. BOONDY. Are you going to regale us about Kenji Inos D2 on M2?

If I could find it I would

 

[Dane]

1997 hardware that has DVD?! And look at this resolution!!! Goddamn. This could be the shit!

Also, this makes the Dreamcast looks even morr sad with GD instead of DVD

DVD was too expensive at the time, it wasn't a standard feature on the console but rather on the FZ model that was an enterprise machine to show products to customers. By the time of the Dreamcast development, players were more than 300+ dollars, it was only during the time the PS2 came out that they were more affordable, and even with Sony owning the format and factories, the console was initially sold at loss.

 

[Redneckerz]

Love to hear more as this story develops.

 

[TheDreadLord]

I have never before seen footage from M2 prototypes and to be honest this looks impressive if you put into perspetive when it should had been released.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Legend says they were planning an add on to boost performance, and potentially get VF3 running too. It was never confirmed though..

Legend says they were planning an add on to boost performance, and potentially get VF3 running too. It was never confirmed though..

To this day Virtua Fighter 3 remains a Dreamcast exclusive....and yet Sega has never once thought about bringing it to other systems