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[llien]

I think this thread belongs to gaming, because:

Apple removes Fortnite from app store after Epic launches new payment system (Update: removed from Google Play store too)

https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/the-fortnite-mega-drop-permanent-discounts-up-to-20-percent https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/epic-gives-fortnite-players-discounts-for-skirting-apple-google-fees/ Currently, when using Apple and Google payment options, Apple and Google...

www.neogaf.com

Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

The Drama Continues Update: In a statement, Apple confirmed the account has been removed and said it's disappointing that the termination had to happen. We are disappointed that we have had to terminate the Epic Games account on the ‌App Store‌. We have worked with the team at Epic Games for...

www.neogaf.com

Epic Games says Apple threatened to cut it out of the App Store entirely

The escalation comes the week after Epic Games, makers of Fortnite, released a new direct payment mechanism designed to bypass the App Store's payment system, from which Apple takes 30%.

www.cnbc.com

In an interview, Cook stated that he had "no issue" with Apple's being put under investigation, but fervently stated that he believed that once lawmakers heard Apple's story, they would see that the company did not have a monopoly. "I think that big companies deserve scrutiny. And I think that's not only fair but important for the system that we have in America. And so I have no issue at all in Apple being put underneath the microscope and people looking and probing. My hope is that as people heard our story and as they continue to hear our story that it will become as apparent to them as it is to us that we have no monopoly. There is no monopoly here," he said.

imore


The whole argument of "monopoly" is a lovely straw man that Apple is using to let people feel like they fairly considered the issue, and then determine on their own that what Apple is doing is OK.

There is
a number of
separate
anti-trust
investigations
into
Apple.

Last year the Supreme Court ruled there is enough evidence to bring an anti-trust case against Apple.
7 years ago Apple was found guilty of violating anti-trust law (which is quite remarkable, given that they were acting in a market 90% of which is controlled by amazon)

Anti-trust laws includes a lot of things that have nothing to do with monopolies and apply to anyone with extreme market power. Things like dividing territories with your competitors and price-fixing. And you may like Apple, but it's also clear they are doing things like trying to block or cripple new technology from coming to market or force higher prices on consumers

Sp, perhaps there is a good case to be made against Apple, after all.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Hopefully arrogant Apple gets put under. They are the big bully tech company, and it's about time they get a wake up call.

 

[LOLCats]

didn't fortnite get pulled from the Google play store as well?

i mean its not just apple.

 

[Andodalf]

It's not about being a monopoly, it's about being a general propose computing device. Imagine if MS wanted 30% of every transaction made on a PC. They'd be crucified in the courts. Mobile phones have reached the same level of ubiquity and utility, and the major players are going to have to treat their platforms as such.

 

[ethomaz]

It's not about being a monopoly, it's about being a general propose computing device. Imagine if MS wanted 30% of every transaction made on a PC. They'd be crucified in the courts. Mobile phones have reached the same level of ubiquity and utility, and the major players are going to have to treat their platforms as such.

MS get 30% of every transaction made on their platform.

Why are not Epic processing MS, Sony, Nintendo, Valve, etc.

 

[lastmessiah]

MS get 30% of every transaction made on their platform.

Huh?

 

[ethomaz]

Huh?

Huh what? MS takes 30% cut on every transaction made in their platform.

 

[Bernkastel]

MS get 30% of every transaction made on their platform.

No.

 

[diffusionx]

It's not about being a monopoly, it's about being a general propose computing device. Imagine if MS wanted 30% of every transaction made on a PC. They'd be crucified in the courts. Mobile phones have reached the same level of ubiquity and utility, and the major players are going to have to treat their platforms as such.

There is so much misunderstanding of this. They don’t get 30% of every transaction made on iOS. They don’t get 30% of anything in a web browser, and for stuff that isn’t used on the phone - buy a game on the Steam app, or a burger on Seamless, and Apple isn’t getting 30%.

MS’ policies on Xbox and Sony’s on PS are similar to Apple’s, though.

 

[ethomaz]

No.

Yes.

C'mon you people are not that serious?

 

[lastmessiah]

Huh what? MS takes 30% cut on every transaction made in their platform.

Yeah no. What platform are you even talking about here?

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah no. What platform are you even talking about here?

MS platforms.... Xbox One, Xbox Series X, etc.

 

[Bernkastel]

Yes.

C'mon you people are not that serious?

PC is an open platform.

 

[lastmessiah]

MS platforms.... Xbox One, Xbox Series X, etc.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

 

[Bernkastel]

MS platforms.... Xbox One, Xbox Series X, etc.

Imagine if MS wanted 30% of every transaction made on a PC.

 

[ethomaz]

PC is an open platform.

Yeap... PC is not a MS platform duh.

Are you trying to say iPhone, iPad, MacBook, iMac, etc are open platforms? lol

.

Why MS should eat 30% from a platform that their not own?

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Yes I know better than you guys from the posts.

 

[lastmessiah]

Yeap... PC is not a MS platform duh.

Are you trying to say iPhone, iPad, MacBook, iMac, etc are open platforms? lol


Why MS should eat 30% from a platform that their not own?


Yes I know better than you guys from the posts.

Well, provide the evidence then.

 

[Andodalf]

Are you trying to say iPhone, iPad, MacBook, iMac, etc are open platforms? lol

The entire point is that they aren't my guy. Everything with MS and Epic and their anti-trust suits is that they need to open their platforms to be more like PCs and even their own Mac OSX.

Stop trolling and being misleading/ acting like an idiot.

 

[polybius80]

Huh what? MS takes 30% cut on every transaction made in their platform.

in their store not the OS

if MS imposed 30% for any application for windows it will mean the end of windows

 

[godhandiscen]

PC is an open platform.

Same as OSX, but you know the poster you are replying to meant the Xbox.

 

[ethomaz]

Well, provide the evidence then.

Apple claims that MS and Sony charge 30% from digital sales

Apple is stating that Microsoft and Sony are far from fair when taking their share of digital sales.

www.gamereactor.eu

I just choose the most recent evidence.

 

[diffusionx]

The entire point is that they aren't my guy. Everything with MS and Epic and their anti-trust suits is that they need to open their platforms to be more like PCs and even their own Mac OSX.

Stop trolling and being misleading/ acting like an idiot.

That’s not what this is about, Epic wants to free ride off the platform holders’ infrastructure. See, on Android, they pulled the same shit they did on iOS, even though on Android they can host the game and cut Google out of the loop entirely. But they want to host the game on Google store and bypass Google’s transaction fee.

I don’t see why Epic has the legal right to do this or why Apple/Google need to allow companies to do this.

 

[ethomaz]

in their store not the OS

if MS imposed 30% for any application for windows it will mean the end of windows

In their platform... Xbox.
In PC they don't do that because it is not their platform (it is open) even so MS just reduced to 5% cut for some cases in late 2018 (it was 30% before that and let's be clear it was because Windows Store was a flop).

iPhone, iPad, etc are closed platforms like Xbox... not PC.
If you can't understand that then to talk about the topic is just misleading.

 

[Bernkastel]

Same as OSX, but you know the poster you are replying to meant the Xbox.

He is replying to a guy who said

Imagine if MS wanted 30% of every transaction made on a PC.

Yeap... PC is not a MS platform duh.

Are you trying to say iPhone, iPad, MacBook, iMac, etc are open platforms? lol

Let me be more specific. Windows is an open platform.

 

[ethomaz]

He is replying to a guy who said


Let me be more specific. Windows is an open platform.

I replied to him because his example was wrong... MS indeed take 30% cut from their platform just like Apple.

BTW all closed platforms owners takes 30% cut from the digital transactions.
It is not about MS.

 

[godhandiscen]

He is replying to a guy who said


Let me be more specific. Windows is an open platform.

Windows and OSX are open platforms.
Xbox/WindowsPhone and iOS are not. Apple and Microsoft have similar fees on their digital stores.

IMHO if Apple will get the hammer, all digital stores that have a monopoly in a platform should.

 

[HoleinOne]

didn't fortnite get pulled from the Google play store as well?

i mean its not just apple.

It did, but due to the more open nature of Android, users can just go to Epic's website and download and install the game from there.

 

[ethomaz]

Windows and OSX are open platforms.
Xbox/WindowsPhone and iOS are not. Apple and Microsoft have similar fees on their digital stores.

Not just them... Sony, Nintendo, Valve, etc... basically a standard in the industry (not gaming only).

 

[godhandiscen]

Not just them... Sony, Nintendo, Valve, etc... basically a standard in the industry (not gaming only).

Exactly. Singling out Apple for being the most successful in selling their platform is stupid. If these first party digital stores are cracked, then it needs to happen across the full ecosystem, not on a single platform.

 

[diffusionx]

It did, but due to the more open nature of Android, users can just go to Epic's website and download and install the game from there.

Right because, as I said before, Epic pulled the same shit on Google store they did on iOS App Store.

This is NOT about “opening up the platform”, Epic just wants something for nothing. They want the benefits of the platform and its store (centralized location, auto updates, promotional opportunities, etc.) without having to pay for it like everyone else does. I mean, we all want that in life, but it doesn’t work that way.

 

[Bernkastel]

Not just them... Sony, Nintendo, Valve, etc... basically a standard in the industry (not gaming only).

Oh my sweet summer child.

Microsoft Store Revenue Now Gives Developers A 95% Cut, On One Condition

Microsoft will now give app developers 95% of app revenues, while Microsoft will only take 5%, but only when certain conditions are met.

appetiser.com.au

 

[ethomaz]

Oh my sweet summer child.

Microsoft Store Revenue Now Gives Developers A 95% Cut, On One Condition

Microsoft will now give app developers 95% of app revenues, while Microsoft will only take 5%, but only when certain conditions are met.

appetiser.com.au

That is Windows Store on PC when you fulfill some conditions lol
It happened because Windows Store sales were failing miserably so no developer wanted to put apps on it... os they dropped the cuts in late 2018.

But if you read your link "All games and Xbox purchases will retain the original 70%-30% split."

Their closed platform continues the 70-30% split.

 

[Memorabilia]

For a company claiming they are not a monopoly, they sure wield a lot of monopoly-like powers.

I don’t expect this lawsuit to be successful, however. In the United States, anti-trust hasn’t been wielded successfully by the govt since Nixon. This country is a rapacious oligarchy in the verge of fascism. Corporations with the most money and the most purchased Congressmen will almost always win. Epic isn’t big enough to win this one. Apple lined the right pockets long ago to make sure this will go their way.

 

[Bernkastel]

That is Windows Store on PC when you fulfill some conditions lol

But if you read your link "All games and Xbox purchases will retain the original 70%-30% split."

Their closed platform continues the 70-30% split.

We are comparing with Apple here. Even without that condition, they only take 15% for Store Apps. And you can install UWP apps without the store too.

 

[ethomaz]

We are comparing with Apple here. Even without that condition, they only take 15% for Store Apps. And you can install UWP apps without the store too.

Apple owns closed platforms.

Apple, MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc etc all takes 30% cut from their closed platforms.

You keep trying to compare Apple with Oranges even after several posts showing your mistake lol

 

[Andodalf]

Windows and OSX are open platforms.
Xbox/WindowsPhone and iOS are not. Apple and Microsoft have similar fees on their digital stores.

IMHO if Apple will get the hammer, all digital stores that have a monopoly in a platform should.

It's not about the storefronts simply having a cost, it's about the fact that you have to use the storefront. If the only way to download applications to a windows computer was by a store that they controlled they'd be taken to court. Taking a mandatory 30% is just making it a bit worse. Imagine if MS regulated every thing users could do on a windows PC. They would have the power to cripple the world. PCs provide a service to the public that is so great it's opportunities of use must be protected by the government, and Phones have reached that same level of ubiquity and utility. Government regulation is coming and Apple is fighting it as hard as possible as early as possible.

 

[llien]

didn't fortnite get pulled from the Google play store as well?

Google store is not exclusive. You can connect to it and many other stores in parallel.

 

[ethomaz]

It's not about the storefronts simply having a cost, it's about the fact that you have to use the storefront. If the only way to download applications to a windows computer was by a store that they controlled they'd be taken to court. Taking a mandatory 30% is just making it a bit worse. Imagine if MS regulated every thing users could do on a windows PC. They would have the power to cripple the world. PCs provide a service to the public that is so great it's opportunities of use must be protected by the government, and Phones have reached that same level of ubiquity and utility. Government regulation is coming and Apple is fighting it as hard as possible as early as possible.

Well...

Can you install apps on Xbox without using the Xbox Store?
Can you install apps on PlayStation without using PS Store?
Can you install apps on Switch without using Nintendo Store?
Can you install apps on iPhone without using App Store?

That is why they are called "closed" platforms.
The comparison with "open" platforms like Windows is just misleading.

What your points exactly? You are tying to fight to make Closed platforms become Open? That basically kills the investments, security and purpose to closed platforms exists.

You buy into Closed platforms due reason that an Open platforms can't delivery.... you are there for the beneficies of the Closed platform even knowing the disadvantages.

That is why these investigations have 0% to harm Apple... because there are not open platforms.
You sell a closed platform to consumers that wants a closed platform.

If you don't want a closed platform buy Android, Windows, etc.

 

[LOLCats]

It did, but due to the more open nature of Android, users can just go to Epic's website and download and install the game from there.

Google store is not exclusive. You can connect to it and many other stores in parallel.

Sure, but then you lose the security of the official marketplace. I mean its fine for fortnite im sure, but basically the same thing, just that android allows for unsecured installs.

 

[johntown]

Epic gets what they deserve and no matter how many Tim Sweeney fanbois complain, Apple will win in the end. Epic agreed to a legal binding contract and broke it due some nonsensical robin hood mentality they try to paint themselves as.

I can't get enough of this either tbh. Epic is getting the KARMA they deserve! I really only hope they lose enough revuene to stop money hatting PC games. If they stop doing that I have no issue with them,

 

[llien]

Sure, but then you lose the security of the official marketplace.

Samsung has one. LG has one. Huawai has one, Sony has one.

Dolphin browser that spied on users was on both Apple and Google stores officially, Ughur incident has shown that iOS can be tore wide open, there is that faux safety feeling.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

Does Tim Sweeney care that he looks like a total bitch here? Like, Apple is making a fool out of him.

 

[VincentMatts]

What apple could do is approve stores you know are more "legit" like gaming stores. Steam, Epic game store etc, xcloud/gamepass, stadia, etc.

No reason those shouldnt be on there and im pretty sure they all have their own verification processes before listing games.

This is about really about "control".

 

[LOLCats]

Samsung has one. LG has one. Huawai has one, Sony has one.

Dolphin browser that spied on users was on both Apple and Google stores officially, Ughur incident has shown that iOS can be tore wide open, there is that faux safety feeling.

do i care? My point is still valid regardless of whatever security related incidents you want to dig up...