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This is the performance you can expect from Steam Deck
- Thread starter Ezquimacore
- Start date
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
killatopak
Gold Member
The videos in the OP aren’t running the Deck’s specs. It a lot lower specced and managed to run 30-45 fps. The Deck will run these games at 60fps or even better graphic settings.
PhaseJump
Banned
We have the GPD Win 3, Aya Neo, and now the Steam Deck for PC handhelds.
I kind of expect Dell to come back with a new Alienware UFO ready for the market, running Intel/Nvidia & Windows, with hype from Xbox Game Pass or even Epic.
Yet, all we seem to care about is how bad things are, or how the Switch holds up to all of it.
I kind of expect Dell to come back with a new Alienware UFO ready for the market, running Intel/Nvidia & Windows, with hype from Xbox Game Pass or even Epic.
Yet, all we seem to care about is how bad things are, or how the Switch holds up to all of it.
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Kenpachii
Member
ZehDon
Gold Member
I know very little about Linux gaming, but the Steam Deck looks like a decent piece of kit. Are you able to point me in the direction of some good sources for info on performance and such when gaming via Linux using Windows wrappers like Proton?
rnlval
Member
Steam Deck is equipped with 88 GB/s memory bandwidth which doesn't factor in RDNA v1's "DCC Everywhere" improvements.
128 bit LPDDR5-5500 yields 88 GB/s
128 bit DDR4-4400 yields 70/s GB/s
Steam Deck has a 25% memory bandwidth advantage over 128 bit DDR4-4400.
RDNA's "DCC Everywhere" with lower pipeline latency improvements resulted in RX 5700 XT rivaling RX Vega II's higher TFLOPS with higher memory bandwidth.
Mobilemofo
Member
"Fear in the air"
great sense of humor. Nice hardware wrapped up in a quite ugly rapping. Regardless, should sell reasonably well..lets watch the numbers eh..
ethomaz
Banned
FidelityFX works in any GPU… it open source and GPU agonist.
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Sentenza
Member
As they say here in Italy "È più facile mettervela in culo che in testa", which traslates roughly as "You are getting very easily confused and should pay more attention".
daveonezero
Banned
As cool as it is I’ll probably just get an AMD mini PC that I’ve been eyeing lately anyways.
Or a system 76 pangolin laptop.
I rarely use my switch portable anymore. And if I do want to use it while the TV is occupied I can do that.
Or a system 76 pangolin laptop.
I rarely use my switch portable anymore. And if I do want to use it while the TV is occupied I can do that.
rnlval
Member
Wrong. 5800H's Vega 8 gimped by memory bandwidth bottleneck worst than Deck's.
Vega 8 doesn't have RDNA v1 "DCC Everywhere" improvements (memory bandwidth conservation).
Vega 8 doesn't have a "Tier 2 VRS" feature (pixel shader conservation).
Vega 8 doesn't have support for 128 bit LPDDR5-5500 (88 GB/s) memory modules.
Doom Eternal with AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, 1336x768 resolution, and 128 bit DDR4-3200 (51.2 GB/s).
I owned both Cape Verde GCN-based Radeon HD 8870M and Ryzen 5 2500U Vega 8 with 35 watts TDP (Ryzen Adj).
From https://www.ultrabookreview.com/36030-amd-ryzen-7-u-laptops/
Cezanne is equipped with DDR4-3733 memory modules. 128 bit DDR4-3733 has 59 GB/s
Memory bandwidth matter when there's enough GPU power.
I'm waiting for the 6nm process tech AMD's Rembrandt APU.
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
This has actually been my experience with a lot of titles on Linux.
Yes, obviously Wine (which Proton/Steam Play is a custom variant of) is a compatibility layer which comes with a low performance cost (MUCH less than emulation would).
But at the same time, Linux is simply more performant than Windows as an OS (and comes with MUCH less baggage) - why do people think practically the entire internet runs on Linux servers and not on Windows? Lower cost is only a small part of it (I work as a backend developer since years, so I know a thing or two about this).
I'd say in normal cases the worst you get would be 80% of native Windows performance, with 90-95% being the best. Add the better OS performance on top and you can very well end up with something running faster.
But even if you don't: If what you need is 60fps, it doesn't matter if the highest you could get is 180fps instead of 200 on Windows...
Really the only issue I could see here would be if it didn't run a game at all that you want to play. It's rare on Linux by now that it happens, but it does happen.
And even then, as others said, you can install Windows on it. Probably even dual boot.
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ethomaz
Banned
CPU is way better and the GPU is on pair than what you have on Deck.
CPU is similar to underclocked 5400U.
That is why the performance will be between 5400U and 5800H… if CPU is bootleneck it will reach around 5400U results if GPU is bottleneck it will reach around 5800H results.
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daveonezero
Banned
It is odd that no one really saw how awesome these Zen 2 chips were before the Steam Deck.
It is going to be awesome but it isn’t for everyone and I’d rather get this chip in a different format that can take advantage of the features in a laptop or mini PC.
it may be a perfect time for this. I love Valve and think maybe this is a winner with things like GPD not catching on and the Switch being very successful.
sunnysideup
Banned
gdp costs a grand.
Tygeezy
Member
The controls are similar to that of a stream controller which is actually excellent for controls. Track pads are superior to thumbsticks for camera movement unless you are using flick stick and gryoscope gives you fine precision of a mouse. What makes the mouse great is it s speed and precision. You have both with this device through track pad or flick stick using steam input option along with gyroscope.
rnlval
Member
That's a flawed argument since superior CPU is bottleneck by relatively slow GPU. Hint: the same CPU can still scale frame rates with a fast dGPU.
For gaming, Ryzen 7 5800H without dGPU is nearly pointless.
The Deck is limited to 60 hz.
From my Ryzen 5 2500U (with 128 bit DDR4-2400, 38.4 GB/s memory bandwidth) scaled to 35 watts TDP experience, RX Vega 8 with 1.3 TFLOPS is mostly bottlenecked by memory bandwidth NOT CPU. Zen 1.x quad-core CPU beats the old Intel Core i7-3740QM.
My old Radeon HD 8870M with ~1.3 TFLOPS and ~88 GB/s video memory bandwidth (via 128 bit GDDR5-5500, I overclocked it from GDDR5-5000) still has better results.
RX Vega's DCC is weak and it's unable to close the gap with Radeon HD 8870M's 88 GB/s video memory bandwidth.
Radeon HD 8870M (slightly downclocked desktop Radeon HD 7700 at 35 watts) was linked with Intel Core i7-3740QM "Ivybridge" CPU.
Ryzen 7 5800H (e.g. 128 bit DDR4-3700, 59 GB/s) doesn't support Decks' 128 bit LPDDR5-5500 with 88 GB/s memory bandwidth.
Ryzen 7 5800H can support faster dGPUs such as RTX 3070 mobile. Memory bandwidth conservation tricks (e.g. RDNA's DCC Everywhere, new L1 cache, mesh shaders, VRS (conserve pixel shading)) and higher memory bandwidth (e.g. 128 bit LPDDR5-5500) will be important for the future RDNA 2 iGPU mobiles.
I'm waiting for the mobile iGPU to gain DX12U support before I buy another ultrabook. 128 bit LPDDR5-5500 is a nice upgrade from 128 bit DDR4-2400 and 128 bit DDR4-3700. I haven't seen Ryzen 5000 APU with 128-bit LPDDR4x-4400 range.
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GHG
Gold Member
So are we just going to ignore shite like this?:
Along with his fellow xclowns darkmage and that smelly socks guy who have been hellbent on shitting up threads with the aim of downplaying the Deck while bringing up the much unloved Series S in every single thread possible.
Anyone would think home consoles that need to be plugged in to a wall and a TV/monitor compete with the deck with the way some of these idiots have been behaving over the last week.
Imagine feeling threatened by a handheld PC gaming machine.
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Silent Viper
Banned
Lol Deck fans getting insecure and threatened by S.
Xscreen makes S portable not a exact replacement for Handheld like Deck and Switch but you can carry around in hotel n all while travelling, that's what i was trying to say. No need to get so insecure and personal lol.
Have you pre-ordered Deck yet?
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DavidGzz
Member
Yep, I said it in another thread but if this was the PS Vita 2 or Switch Pro these same assholes would be bouncing off the walls. But also, I think there are people excited about the Deck that made fun of the Series S. Hypocrites everywhere.
Silent Viper
Banned
Ofcourse there are. One such guy quoted me twice just coz i brought Series S into discussion.
GHG
Gold Member
Mate, nobody gives a shit about the Series S but you guys keep on bring it up in these threads like wounded animals under instruction.
So let me get this straight, because you can theoretically lug a Series S around with you and use it at a hotel (wow...) just like every other console in existence it's suddenly competes with portable consoles? How does that series S work in bed? On the balcony? Lying on the sofa while the TV is in use? Can you use the Series S without an additional controller and without it being tethered to some sort of cable? Will the Series S play my 1000+ games on Steam? Are you even thinking straight? Do you guys put in this work in switch threads as well?
If you want to carry the Series S around with you while travelling, in hotels, airport lounges, on planes, etc then be my guest. I'm not one to stop people looking like morons, it's good entertainment.
Just a tip though, nobody is buying the bullshit that it's a viable alternative.
If you can't see the huge difference between the Deck and the Series S and the Deck in terms of their categories and use cases then I'm really sorry, I can't help you. You're talking about the most powerful (by some distance) dedicated handheld gaming device currently available vs the weakest "next gen" home console (also by some distance).
Do you guys also compare your mobile phones to your desktop PC's?
PaintTinJr
Member
Did those of us that hate the strategy with the S, but like the Deck miss an announcement for the S being able to run any OS - even using optical media through usb-c?
In the extreme case, the deck could be used by a game designer on a plane journey and run the UE4 editor - although probably couldn't complete the offline lighting in a journey for 720p. It is a powerful PC in handheld form factor and doesn't need any exclusives built for it, because it can run anything made for PC in the last 30years if so inclined.
In games 4c/8t Zen 2 are hardly ever the bottleneck, at this moment, even on the Deck the bottleneck will still likely be the GPU or memory bandwidth for some years.
DavidGzz
Member
So, for someone with a 1080p screen that wants a Series S and someone who wants a handheld with a 800p screen, how are they so different? Both will most likely need to sacrifice some things to run true next gen games. Both are viable platforms and will end up having more similarities than any other two platforms this coming generation where current gen games are concerned. The size of the screen doesn't matter. They are both still computers that play games. Lol at your ending strawman argument.
GHG
Gold Member
What's the difference?
The difference is that one comes out of the box looking like this:
And the other looks like this (along with a charging cable):
And you're seriously sat there saying "how are they so different"?
"the size of the screen doesn't matter" - you're right it doesn't matter, one doesn't even have a screen.
The target demographic for the two devices aren't even the same. Someone who wants a portable handheld gaming device doesn't suddenly go out and buy a home console that requires a TV/monitor along with being plugged in to a main power source at all times. End of story.
DavidGzz
Member
Whatever you say man, both are computers that play games. Their form factor is irrelevant. There are those who dis on the Series S while they game in 720p or less on the Switch. That was my point. Just silly fanboys. Go find some more images to try to explain why you think the Series S sucks. I'll be here, waiting, lol
Also, this right here is BS. I'd say the vast majority of Steam Deck preorders are from gamers in general. Gamers who have a desktop and/or consoles. Who has a Steam account that isn't a sit down in the house gamer on a larger screen? Steam isn't relying on converting handheld gamers that own a Switch, this will attract Steam members. Hell, you have to be a Steam member to even preorder it! I just remembered that, lol. You can't even make an account and preorder it, it has to be old members....Go back to bed, dude.
Also, this right here is BS. I'd say the vast majority of Steam Deck preorders are from gamers in general. Gamers who have a desktop and/or consoles. Who has a Steam account that isn't a sit down in the house gamer on a larger screen? Steam isn't relying on converting handheld gamers that own a Switch, this will attract Steam members. Hell, you have to be a Steam member to even preorder it! I just remembered that, lol. You can't even make an account and preorder it, it has to be old members....Go back to bed, dude.
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GHG
Gold Member
Jesus christ... I know you're desperate scrambling for a "gotcha" but this really isn't it.
Most people who have pre-ordered a deck already have a steam library on a device that isn't portable (a PC) and are looking for a complimentary portable device that enables them access to that library while not being tied to a single location or to a larger screen. The key word there being complimentary.
That's how valve are advertising and marketing the device initially (there are over 120 million active players on Steam, they would be stupid not to). Outside of that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the device will appeal to - those who are interested in dedicated portable gaming devices. We've literally had multiple people pop in to Deck threads and say they are not interested in the device because they aren't fans of portable gaming and prefer gaming in front of a big screen (which is perfectly fine). We've also had people say they are interested due to the portable nature of the device and the utility it offers due to it in fact being a PC in a portable form factor.
How does the Series S provide an alternative solution to the Deck? For me personally if I bought a Series S I'm getting a much shitter version of my PC with access to exactly the same games but I'd have to then go and purchase those same games again because they are different ecosystems, that's the same story for a lot of PC gamers and Steam users in general. In that sense it doesn't serve the same purpose as the Steam Deck, not even close. And then what of those interested in portable gaming in general? We've already established the Series S isn't a portable console and isn't fit for that purpose.
Next you're going to tell me the demographic for IOS and Android are the same as people on home consoles because "they are all gamers in general". Sorry to you and all your mates that people aren't all rushing out to buy a Series S, you guys are clearly hurt that it's fast becoming a black sheep device in the gaming space. But better luck next time advertising it in unrelated threads.
PaintTinJr
Member
Form factor determines screen size - and screen resolution largely by cost of available portable screens - so determines the dots per inch/pixels per inch and the resulting "perceptible" image clarity - due to real world minification from image size and viewer position.
The Deck is sold without a dock and isn't pitched as a hybrid - AFAIK - so is targeting 5" display, not 42" and bigger, and with a resolution of 720p, not 1080p, so a quick glance it has roughly 2.5x less pixels displaying. on a screen about 50x smaller.
On Switch, people have historically bought Nintendo consoles for the vibrant non-photorealistic visual games made by Nintendo with their own IPs that focus on gameplay mechanics - further skewing the comparison of Series S trying to compete with 3rd party AAA games that overlap movies, being viewed on a large TV IMHO.
DavidGzz
Member
Yeah, it wasn't Nintendo fans with their panties in a bunch over the rumors of a much more powerful Switch Pro as if they don't want great graphics and a device that can run current gen games. And Series S is aimed at people who want 1080p games, the same way Steam Deck is for those that are good with 800p. There is also a huge amount of people that just leave their Switch docked. Also the base Deck doesn't have a dock but they have one planned and say that you can already do it if you have a USB-C hub.
CuteFaceJay
Member
CPU clocked at 4Ghz?
MYTH!
MYTH!
CuteFaceJay
Member
They also don't have the platform, clout or any major folks to bankroll the production. Meanwhile Valve are billionaires
ToTTenTranz
Banned
One RDNA2 CU at 1.6GHz is still probably going to outmatch one Vega CU at 2.0GHz, and the effective memory bandwidth on RDNA2 is much larger thanks to a shorter pipeline and larger caches.
The Steam Deck is probably going to perform far better than any AMD APU out there, no matter the TDP. It doesn't matter that a desktop Renoir has twice as many CPU cores at a higher frequency, if there's a bottleneck in memory bandwidth.
I guess the only thing coming up close do the Deck would be the Ryzen 7 4700G with one CCX downclocked and the other disabled, the Vega 8 at 2.1GHz and some ridiculously expensive DDR4 5000.
We can see here how much the Vega 8 @ 2.1GHz is bandwidth starved in these comparison videos. There's a 10-25% performance difference between using DDR4-3200 and DDR4-4400. Imagine taking away the bandwidth bottleneck alltogether by going up to 5500MT/s like the Deck's Van Gogh.
Even then, the Deck will still start to run past it once new technologies are adopted in games, such as VRS, conservative rasterization, sampler feedback streaming, etc.
Also, I'm still trying to figure out if the dedicated "Computer Vision and Machine Learning" block that is present in the Steam Deck's Van Gogh could be used to accelerate a ML-based upscaling technology (which is what FSR 2.0 is probably going to be, according to AMD patents).
According to Patrick Schur, there are 2x Tensilica Q6 and 2x Tensilica C5 Neural Network accelerators in there. If they're clocked at the same 1.6GHz as the GPU, they'll have an aggregate 8bit matrix multiply throughput of 8 TOPs, or 3.5 TOPs if using 16bit values.
grfunkulus
Banned
I hesitate to call this the dumbest comment yet because there are a lot of gems in here but Jesus man, are you really this stupid? Plenty of 'computers' have wattages similar to this in the Ultrabook and 2-in-1 space. They are capable of playing modern games.
With adequate cooling (and this thing looks over engineered, if anything) there's no reason steamdeck isn't a huge win for mobile gamers not wanting to be locked into Nintendo's bullshit ecosystem and chained to ancient hardware. Its power is on par with boutique devices costing almost twice as much. And it looks far more robust in its design. Specifically the thumbsticks. These look to enable true fps gameplay in a way that the shitty excuse for joysticks on the switch (same ones that the vast majority of Chinese handheld makers source) simply cannot
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TheContact
Member
Any talk about battery life? Based on the hardware I’m not sure I can see it going above 1.5 hours on average but I’d be happy for something like 3
Ryu Kaiba
Member
rnlval
Member
AMD's 6 nm based Rembrandt APU is better than Van Gogh APU i.e.
GPU
RDNA 2: 8 CU increased to 12 CU,
L2 cache: 1 MB to 2 MB
Van Gogh APU's discrete Machine Learning blocks seem to be heading towards NVIDIA RTX discrete Tensor Machine Learning design approach.
Haggard
Banned
Magnific0giganticus
Banned
Ezquimacore
Banned
This can't run control on more than low settings and 30 fps, this is vega 8. The steam deck will run that game at more than that easily... This has only 4 cores/threads, steam deck 4/cores 8 threads. You don't know what you're talking about.