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The Verge: Five years on, Breath of the Wild’s open world is still unmatched

Sosokrates

Gold Member
What do people find interesting about elden rings world? Is it the different enemies?

With BOTW will look at something and i climb there to check it out, the detail in BOTW makes things interesting I dont know if this is the same in Elden ring.
 
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What do people find interesting about elden rings world? Is it the different enemies?
for me, it's how incredibly dense the world is. exploring every nook and cranny is highly rewarding, offering rewards that range from starting a quest, getting a unique, helpful item to literally opening up an entire area of the map you could easily overlook.

then there is the level and art design, which is on a different level.

the game rewards exploration to such a degree where you can literally discover an entire city you would have missed had you not taken to explore the world in detail

the items/stuff you can find through exploring are also extremely varied. you can get items that improve your flasks, items that make your flasks heal more, rare resources, rare weapons, rare armor, rare jewelry, weapon art, spells, key items that will interact with the world, hidden vendors that sell you great stuff, keys that unlock certain dungeons, etc. in BoTW my exploring would, best case scenario, reward me with a korok seed. maybe a weapon too that would end up breaking 5 mins after I found it.
 
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Hero_Select

Member
for me, it's how incredibly dense the world is. exploring every nook and cranny is highly rewarding, offering rewards that range from starting a quest, getting a unique, helpful item to literally opening up an entire area of the map you could easily overlook.

then there is the level and art design, which is on a different level.

the game rewards exploration to such a degree where you can literally discover an entire city you would have missed had you not taken to explore the world in detail

the items/stuff you can find through exploring are also extremely varied. you can get items that improve your flasks, items that make your flasks heal more, rare resources, rare weapons, rare armor, rare jewelry, weapon art, spells, key items that will interact with the world, hidden vendors that sell you great stuff, keys that unlock certain dungeons, etc. in BoTW my exploring would, best case scenario, reward me with a korok seed. maybe a weapon too that would end up breaking 5 mins after I found it.
There's def a lot of things to find in ER, but the game is also equally restrictive to an insane degree because items and weapons usually have a stat requirement and depending on how you level up a character it wouldn't be feasible unless you spend an absurd amount of time grinding for runes or you respec - which is blocked behind a boss and a very limited amount of times you can actually respec.

I'm 45 hrs into the game and I've respecd twice but I have 2 tries left. I cant really experiment with different builds and the amount of times I've cleared an area only to be rewarded with an ash of war or incantation i cant use has been pretty frustrating.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
What do people find interesting about elden rings world? Is it the different enemies?

With BOTW will look at something and i climb there to check it out, the detail in BOTW makes things interesting I dont know if this is the same in Elden ring.
While I love botw freedom, Elden ring is a bit more dense in content and surprises. Still, I prefer botw's open world and how you can explore anything without restrictions as long as you have enough stamina.
 
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There's def a lot of things to find in ER, but the game is also equally restrictive to an insane degree because items and weapons usually have a stat requirement and depending on how you level up a character it wouldn't be feasible unless you spend an absurd amount of time grinding for runes or you respec - which is blocked behind a boss and a very limited amount of times you can actually respec.

I'm 45 hrs into the game and I've respecd twice but I have 2 tries left. I cant really experiment with different builds and the amount of times I've cleared an area only to be rewarded with an ash of war or incantation i cant use has been pretty frustrating.
I can see this, but I just make notes of stuff I can't use for future builds.

I have 3 builds already as a result. got about 10 hours in on a int/dex build, 35 on a faith/str build, and 40 on a pure dex build.

even if I can't use an item, I find it exciting because it gets me thinking about future builds

FYI there are a lot more than 4 respec tears out there, so I wouldn't get too worried about running out quite yet
 

Mossybrew

Member
exploring every nook and cranny is highly rewarding

I think that's overselling it a bit. Plenty of nooks and crannies in ER have nothing. Or a mushroom to pick up. Or couple birds just hanging out or something. Or like Hero_Select notes, plenty of times you'll find something that you either can't use, or would be inappropriate for your build. Plenty of times you'll find something you have no fucking idea what it's even for.

But I guess that's the gambling/slot machine effect. You find trash nine times out of ten, then you find something good, so that keeps you going.
 
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Hero_Select

Member
I can see this, but I just make notes of stuff I can't use for future builds.

I have 3 builds already as a result. got about 10 hours in on a int/dex build, 35 on a faith/str build, and 40 on a pure dex build.

even if I can't use an item, I find it exciting because it gets me thinking about future builds

FYI there are a lot more than 4 respec tears out there, so I wouldn't get too worried about running out quite yet
Good im glad because i was stressing over that. I still wish it was easier.. it shouldnt require such specific items to respec.. and i wish i could test out a build before locking myself into it because the stat distribution is a little tricky to get down to how id like it.
 
Good im glad because i was stressing over that. I still wish it was easier.. it shouldnt require such specific items to respec.. and i wish i could test out a build before locking myself into it because the stat distribution is a little tricky to get down to how id like it.
the game is definitely very brutal and unforgiving when it comes to character creation/stat distribution. I personally love to geek out about stuff like that, but that's just me.

I've found this very helpful tho:

 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
While I love botw freedom, Elden ring is a bit more dense in content and surprises. Still, I prefer botw's open world and how you can explore anything without restrictions as long as you have enough stamina.
Can you climb, cut down trees, burn stuff and all that kind of stuff in Elden ring?

From what Ive heard the things you find in Elden Ring are weapons, consumables, cosmetics and enemies.
 
Can you climb, cut down trees, burn stuff and all that kind of stuff in Elden ring?

From what Ive heard the things you find in Elden Ring are weapons, consumables, cosmetics and enemies.
there are no cosmetics, at least nothing I've found so far

the game has a pretty deep crafting system. so you can gather resources for crafting through harvesting stuff, picking herbs and plants, getting minerals from mines, hunting monsters or animals, etc.

you can't climb or cut down trees.

you do get a horse that you can summon at any time that has a double jump, which basically allows you to climb by getting creative with the environment. you can reach areas that would be impossible to reach by foot.

edit: you can summon the horse at any time out in the over world. you can't summon it inside of most dungeons.
 
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Abriael_GN

Member
I don't like BOTW much... but I'll have to disagree. Yes, you're right it does look better. Yes, you're right it's massively bigger... but in term of exploration? You're in a plane flying high above the world. What exactly are you exploring? We might have very different views of what exploration is. Flying over a city is cool and seeing all these cities from above is cool too, but it's very different from being on the ground and experiencing said city. The variety of things you could find and do in the BOTW trumps FlightSim.

That's laughable.

Aside from the fact that the if we talk about things you can "do," what you can do in a single aircraft absolutely trounces the whole sum of the activities you can do in Breath of the Wild, without even considering that flight simulation is infinitely more challenging and as such much more stimulating.

... What am I exploring? I'm exploring the world. I can explore it from high above on an airliner or from low below on a small floatplane. In 1.5 years of MSFS, I've found out more things about the world we live in than I did in 40 years and two degrees.

I've done several trips around the world in 20-50 legs depending on the aircraft I was flying, one per day, each and every time learning more about the countries I flew over than I'd have ever imagined. I've seen places that were nearly unbelievable, and all of these places really exist. They're a google search away from even more exploration. They don't live and die within the game, ultimately sterile. I've filled my bucket list for ten lives.

And that's what "exploration" means.

exploration
noun [ C/U ]
US /ˌek·spləˈreɪ·ʃən, ˌekˌsplɔ-/

the act of traveling to a place or searching a place in order to learn about it:

It's pretty much the literal description of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and a limited, constricted, small world like Breath of the Wild will never, ever come close.
 
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Sosokrates

Gold Member
there are no cosmetics, at least nothing I've found so far

the game has a pretty deep crafting system. so you can gather resources for crafting through harvesting stuff, picking herbs and plants, getting minerals from mines, hunting monsters or animals, etc.

you can't climb or cut down trees.

you do get a horse that you can summon at any time that has a double jump, which basically allows you to climb by getting creative with the environment. you can reach areas that would be impossible to reach by foot.

edit: you can summon the horse at any time out in the over world. you can't summon it inside of most dungeons.
Sounds a bit like RDR2 In the gathering and crafting aspect.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
Can you climb, cut down trees, burn stuff and all that kind of stuff in Elden ring?

From what Ive heard the things you find in Elden Ring are weapons, consumables, cosmetics and enemies.
No, the mobility is not as good as breath of the wild, but the horse is pretty easy to use and has a double jump. Not at the same level of botw but better than a lot of open worlds. It's not really something "new" just imagine a dark souls game in an open world similar to breath of the wild where you can see stuff from any distance and you have to explore because there are no markers. You can put the markers yourself like botw.
 
Sounds a bit like RDR2 In the gathering and crafting aspect.
never played RDR2 so I can't really comment

I enjoy the crafting system a lot in Elden Ring, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people overlook it. it also takes quite a bit of exploration to find a lot of the recipes for crafting.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Elden Ring>>>BOTW>The Witcher 3

All Legends but there is differences.


We don't want to mention the abysmal performance of BOTW do we?
 

Hero_Select

Member
Elden Ring>>>BOTW>The Witcher 3

All Legends but there is differences.


We don't want to mention the abysmal performance of BOTW do we?
BOTW runs at a consistent 30fps most of the time. Theres 3 main areas where it dips. The start, the lost woods and Zoras Domain - other than that the game is generally pretty smooth and bug free.

But i mean.. if you want to compare performances then Elden Ring is even worse in that regard with stuttering, frame pacing issues and constantly dipping below 60 fps across all platforms.

I cant get the game to run strady on my 3080 even if i get the graphics down to low - it's an optimization issue and it's so widespread that the game is "mixed" on Steam.
 
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Sosokrates

Gold Member
No, the mobility is not as good as breath of the wild, but the horse is pretty easy to use and has a double jump. Not at the same level of botw but better than a lot of open worlds. It's not really something "new" just imagine a dark souls game in an open world similar to breath of the wild where you can see stuff from any distance and you have to explore because there are no markers. You can put the markers yourself like botw.

The enemies were always my main draw in souls games.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
The enemies were always my main draw in souls games.
The only thing the next Zelda should learn from this game is how epic every encounter makes you feel, and there are a lot of enemies waiting for you in every corner. But everything feels carefully placed and not random.

But other than that, each game has its own differences and each game does something better than the other. People are trying to say "this one is better or that one is better" but if you love one, you should play the other because there are not many open worlds like these two games, as much as people are trying mention games like Skyrim or the Witcher.
 

Hero_Select

Member
The only thing the next Zelda should learn from this game is how epic every encounter makes you feel, and there are a lot of enemies waiting for you in every corner. But everything feels carefully placed and not random.

But other than that, each game has its own differences and each game does something better than the other. People are trying to say "this one is better or that one is better" but if you love one, you should play the other because there are not many open worlds like these two games, as much as people are trying mention games like Skyrim or the Witcher.
Definitely agreed. I love the enemy variety.. even if I approach each one the same way XD shield up.. carefully wait for them to attack then I retaliate XD but that's just more of how I play than the game because I have a couple of different weapons I can use instead
 

T0minator

Member
BOTW and ER are amazing and top tier.. but I find it hilarious how Horizon fans are trying to push their way into the thread like "Hey we're great too! Look at all these pretty screenshots! Isn't that AMAZING!?"

The point of the pix was to give a visual of how awesome the world Guerilla created in HFW.

Elden Ring has a great world. So does Horizon Forbidden West. There's no pushing their way in, HFW is definitely part of this conversation. Have you actually played it?
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
BOTW runs at a consistent 30fps most of the time. Theres 3 main areas where it dips. The start, the lost woods and Zoras Domain - other than that the game is generally pretty smooth and bug free.

But i mean.. if you want to compare performances then Elden Ring is even worse in that regard with stuttering, frame pacing issues and constantly dipping below 60 fps across all platforms.

I cant get the game to run strady on my 3080 even if i get the graphics down to low - it's an optimization issue and it's so widespread that the game is "mixed" on Steam.
BOTW dips below 30fps often enough and is laughably bad vs Elden Ring.
No stuttering on PS5 when I play ER.
 

Hero_Select

Member
The point of the pix was to give a visual of how awesome the world Guerilla created in HFW.

Elden Ring has a great world. So does Horizon Forbidden West. There's no pushing their way in, HFW is definitely part of this conversation. Have you actually played it?
Yes I bought the game day 1. The game is a by-the-numbers open-world game that brings nothing new to the table unfortunately. The best part is fighting the robots.. destroying parts off them is super satisfying.

BOTW dips below 30fps often enough and is laughably bad vs Elden Ring.
No stuttering on PS5 when I play ER.
You must have a super secret copy of the game that runs amazing just for you. Go watch the digital foundry video on Elden Ring.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
BOTW dips below 30fps often enough and is laughably bad vs Elden Ring.
No stuttering on PS5 when I play ER.
Elden ring stutters even on PC, I can run the game easily and I had to cap the frame rate at 50 just to not deal with the stuttering. Not a big deal but the performance could definitely be better.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
You must have a super secret copy of the game that runs amazing just for you. Go watch the digital foundry video on Elden Ring.
Nope I have a version that doesn't have hitches like the PC.

I watched all the tech videos on it.
Besides like I stated.. I never experienced it.
 
Yes I bought the game day 1. The game is a by-the-numbers open-world game that brings nothing new to the table unfortunately. The best part is fighting the robots.. destroying parts off them is super satisfying.


You must have a super secret copy of the game that runs amazing just for you. Go watch the digital foundry video on Elden Ring.
game runs flawlessly on XSX with VRR

this isn't a secret, tons of posts in that DF thread your mentioning which explain exactly how it fixes the problem
 
Why are Zelda fans and Soulsborne fans fighting here? this is so stupid I don't get it...........if you like Zelda, there's no way you don't like Soulsborne and same the other way around...

and the developers themselves said that they take inspiration from each other
 
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Ezquimacore

Member
Why are Zelda fans and Soulsborne fans fighting here? this is so stupid I don't get it...........if you like Zelda, there's no way you don't like Soulsborne and same the other way around...

and the developers themselves said that they take inspiration from each other
Summary: People don't like when Zelda fans make thread about how awesome Breath of the wild is, so they comment how the game did nothing new, how overrated the game is and how much they hate Nintendo. Now they have a new excuse to hate botw and that excuse is how awesome Elden Ring is, because they just can enjoy one game and not more than one.
 

T0minator

Member
Why are Zelda fans and Soulsborne fans fighting here? this is so stupid I don't get it...........if you like Zelda, there's no way you don't like Soulsborne and same the other way around...

and the developers themselves said that they take inspiration from each other


Because some gamers don't understand that it's actually possible for one game to be great and another game to be great as well.

The need to downplay another game to feel better about their preferred game will always be a mainstay in gaming forums
 
Summary: People don't like when Zelda fans make thread about how awesome Breath of the wild is, so they comment how the game did nothing new, how overrated the game is and how much they hate Nintendo. Now they have a new excuse to hate botw and that excuse is how awesome Elden Ring is, because they just can enjoy one game and not more than one.

yes I think I can see that Soulsborne fans are more territorial, more elitist. I'm a Soulsborne fan from the beginning (from the original Japanese Demon's Souls) even I'm embarrassed with some of the core fans behaviour....
 
Why are Zelda fans and Soulsborne fans fighting here? this is so stupid I don't get it...........if you like Zelda, there's no way you don't like Soulsborne and same the other way around...

and the developers themselves said that they take inspiration from each other
fighting is stupid, especially given that they're both amazing games, but I think there's nothing wrong with fair criticisms. There is a lot BoTW could do better, and I think it's perfectly healthy to point this out in hopes that the next BoTW will be even more amazing.

Also keep in mind the article in the OP itself compares the games.

When I criticize something like the lack of enemy types in BoTW, it's not to hate on the game, but out of a genuine desire that it's improved upon in the next game.

I've put in over 100 hours in BoTW. It's great but I think you could have something truly incredible if a few things were improved upon.
 
That's laughable.

Aside from the fact that the if we talk about things you can "do," what you can do in a single aircraft absolutely trounces the whole sum of the activities you can do in Breath of the Wild, without even considering that flight simulation is infinitely more challenging and as such much more stimulating.

... What am I exploring? I'm exploring the world. I can explore it from high above on an airliner or from low below on a small floatplane. In 1.5 years of MSFS, I've found out more things about the world we live in than I did in 40 years and two degrees.

I've done several trips around the world in 20-50 legs depending on the aircraft I was flying, one per day, each and every time learning more about the countries I flew over than I'd have ever imagined. I've seen places that were nearly unbelievable, and all of these places really exist. They're a google search away from even more exploration. They don't live and die within the game, ultimately sterile. I've filled my bucket list for ten lives.

And that's what "exploration" means.



It's pretty much the literal description of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and a limited, constricted, small world like Breath of the Wild will never, ever come close.
No, it's laughable. It's an opinion that differs from yours. You bring up good points, but I'll still have to disagree with you.

Maybe I just don't get it. But for me its like being in a submarine, yea sure you cover more ground... but I feel like the real fun and exploration is had by that deep sea diver there. He may not cover as much ocean as the guy in the submarine, but he gets to see it up close and touch it.
 

SuperGooey

Member
lol

We're still pretending BotW's world isn't completely empty, being completely surface level (quite literally)?

It's too much to ask the Zelda team to be able to be anywhere in the same ballpark as FromSoft's Elden Ring--one legacy dungeon in that game has more depth, design and variety to it than anything in BotW-- but it would be nice for BotW 2 to have more than 3 enemy types, actual dungeons, and interesting discoveries that aren't the same recycled shrines and Korok "puzzles"? Perhaps some rewards that aren't weapons and shield that break after a few uses?

I don't think BotW is a bad game--it's good, but its design and emptiness can easily be picked apart now, and it is so obviously behind what Elden Ring has achieved. It's not even fair.
 
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metaverse

Gold Member
I'll tell ya what open world is really unmatched.

It's massively bigger, it's actually truly "open" (you can go 'round), looks infinitely better, and has exponentially more potential for exploration. Match this if ya can.





Easy....

maps.google.com

key features:
  • Real time traffic updates. Find the best route when driving, with real-time updates on traffic jams, accidents, road closures and speed traps. ...
  • Hands-free help with the Google Assistant. ...
  • Real-time updates for public transportation. ...
  • Explore new places confidently.
  • google earth vr
 
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Darryl

Banned
botw definitely could have had more things to do to fill up the world. the town felt bland and empty, i was happy when i left. i remember spending like a month wandering around OoT and MM towns, just lookin for stuff to do
 

Soodanim

Member
I started quoting a few worthwhile posts, but I got bored so they’re all from pages 1-2.

I'll take a game which released in 2022 over a completely different game that took big strides to break the mould of a stale genre and released 5 years earlier.

How profound.
This is such a nonsense post that I had to acknowledge it. An article goes out of its way to claim an older game has the best open world now that Elden Ring exists and that’s fine, but someone mentions a newer game as a response to the article’s claim and that’s not allowed.

Pungent.
I'd take Skyrim/Oblivion/Fallout 3/4 over it in a heartbeat. If I'm being honest the open world and exploration were the worst part of BotW. The gameplay was great (especially the awesome physics engine), but at no point did I ever feel rewarded for exploring, nor did I feel any incentive to explore other than wanting to complete all the shrines (which even then was more just a completion thing that I'd do in any open world game, rather than 90% of the shrines being repetitive and/or a waste of time). Everybody's entitled to their own opinion and I actually really enjoyed BotW, but other than the physics engine, there was no point during the time I played BotW that I ever felt I was playing anything more than a good open world game, definitely nowhere near "masterpiece" quality, not even the best Zelda game
I agree - I will take any of Bethesda’s worlds over BotW, because there’s so much more content. A few things dotted around here and there and the game of shrine roulette to see if what you’ve found is good or not or the korok seed non-puzzles don’t change the net feeling of emptiness the game has. I’ve played it through heavily on two occasions, one in the last 6 months. I’ve had plenty of fun with BotW, and you find some interesting things ok occasion. But it’s like getting to the top of a climb is supposed to feel like an accomplishment, but it really isn’t. It’s a chore. Fallout 3 was such an interesting world to explore, as are the rest. You’re nearly always doing something, and that something doesn’t involve climbing with a very limiting stamina meter. At the very least, combat is worth doing in Beth games.
Oh no Verge, look what you did done now.

BOTW is still the one the are all trying to match. It's ok having better combat, but BOTW's greatest trump card was the physics and "chemistry" engine, that's where all those open world game that came after still fall short.
I will champion the chemistry engine all day, because it’s genuinely good. But it’s under-utilised. I very rarely find myself actually using it, so in practice it’s not actually that much of an advantage in BotW. How often do you actually find yourself doing anything that involves that stuff vs playing how you’ve always played Zelda unless you’re making a stylish video for YouTube? You might throw down wood for a fire to get some lift to help save on the chore that is climbing, but Revali’s Gale negates that. What else actually does you any favours outside of the shrines, which can be really interesting but choose to present bite size chunks? Lightning strikes on weapons is the only thing I can think of. It’s not like the world is full of opportunities to repeat the dry grass and wind combo from the tutorial space. Far Cry 2 used spreading fire a hell of a lot more.


BotW was one of those few games across time that changed the landscape and inspired so many future games. But BotW was also heavily flawed by way of game design choices that purposely goes against the idea of keeping the game moving. Weapons break easily, so you don’t use the good stuff you find. Stamina’s shite and climbing is slow, so you avoid climbing unless you need to. And to the point of the thread, the world felt so empty. I said it after my first time through and I still think it: BotW2 should have a smaller map that focuses on quality, not quantity.

Elden Ring isn’t perfect because nothing is, but in 30 hours I’ve accomplished more than I ever did in BotW. I’m constantly doing something. Not only is the world big, it’s full of things I want to do and see. It’s not just the same 3 enemy types all day. The game WANTS you to engage with it, and it makes life very easy. Horse? Whistle for it to spawn, not go to a stable and have it teleport between stables, then hope you don’t stray too far that it can’t hear you.

It’s undoubtedly a case of seeing further by standing on the shoulders of giants, and the industry thanks BotW every time it is inspired by it in some way. It’s also a case of BotW stepping on land mines so ER knew how to avoid making the same mistakes. However, BotW made choices it didn’t need to make, and did itself a disservice without anyone asking it to. And if ER being better was such a given that didn’t need saying then we wouldn’t have this thread, would we?

BotW2 has the potential to truly be one of the best of all time, but the first game is a 7.5/10.
 

Hero_Select

Member
lol

We're still pretending BotW's world isn't completely empty, being completely surface level (quite literally)?

It's too much to ask the Zelda team to be able to be anywhere in the same ballpark as FromSoft's Elden Ring--one legacy dungeon in that game has more depth, design and variety to it than anything in BotW-- but it would be nice for BotW 2 to have more than 3 enemy types, actual dungeons, and interesting discoveries that aren't the same recycled shrines and Korok "puzzles"? Perhaps some rewards that aren't weapons and shield that break after a few uses?

I don't think BotW is a bad game--it's good, but its design and emptiness can easily be picked apart now, and it is so obviously behind what Elden Ring has achieved. It's not even fair.
Some of you guys really try so hard.
 
I never understood the reaction from people and journalists who were praising climbing as it was some revolution in gaming.
"OMG you can climb anywhere" yeah, and ? that guy Tim from Kinda Funny was so hyped that he found a chest on some random place he climbed -___-
I don't care about climbing because climbing every mountain doesn't mean anything to me. Because there's nothing there.

Another thing I was shocked about is that journalists actually said that game was beautiful. Those rock textures look like some shit from 2007.
comparing it to Witcher and Horizon, it's far behind in graphics. You can blame Nintendo for making weak consoles.

When the game released I heard from players that the story is average. I don't know that so I ask people on here if that's true ?
so, a game that is a generation behind in terms of graphics and with an average story (?), gets 10/10 from everyone. hmmm
 
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