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Spoilers Clickbait The REAL story behind The Last of Us Part 2 (ONLY CONDENSCENDEURS OF HIGH ART ALLOWED!!!)

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Deer/Dur
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Oh believe me, I agree. It's the lowest of low storylines. The problem is the fanbase and critics thinking it's groundbreaking lol
I wouldn't say its the greatest story ever, but I do appreciate the effort made in telling it -its very detailed and accomplished with some truly standout sequences. Same deal with it as a pure example of gameplay, I enjoyed my time playing it but I would never say ND's "house style" represents to me the pinnacle of contemporary game design.

It is, in my considered opinion, a very high-quality piece of work. The sheer amount of effort that has undeniably been poured into every aspect justifies it as being a valid GOTY contender. That it isn't an emotional crowd pleaser like the first game should not in my view stand against it, because evidently that's not the reaction Druckmann and co were looking to elicit.

It does what it sets out to do bloody well, and while I understand not everyone will want to "buy" what its selling, I genuinely cannot and will not fault it for that.
 

BLAUcopter

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Thanks for reminding me that I need to start a new game + run. Now I have a dope new oled, can wait go delve back into this fucked up and brutal world again.
 
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kingbean

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Sometimes it's okay to not like something. Even if it's under false pretenses or bad motives.

It's also totally fine to not give a tinkers tin shit.
 

cormack12

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I wouldn't say its the greatest story ever, but I do appreciate the effort made in telling it -its very detailed and accomplished with some truly standout sequences. Same deal with it as a pure example of gameplay, I enjoyed my time playing it but I would never say ND's "house style" represents to me the pinnacle of contemporary game design.

It is, in my considered opinion, a very high-quality piece of work. The sheer amount of effort that has undeniably been poured into every aspect justifies it as being a valid GOTY contender. That it isn't an emotional crowd pleaser like the first game should not in my view stand against it, because evidently that's not the reaction Druckmann and co were looking to elicit.

It does what it sets out to do bloody well, and while I understand not everyone will want to "buy" what its selling, I genuinely cannot and will not fault it for that.
I agree somewhat. Production values are high in general with Sony but usually outstanding with ND. the gameplay varies from excellent to okay depending on which aspect youre looking at.

The main problem is when people over elevate their critique dishonestly to assert the game is the likes of which we've never seen before or experienced before. Most games, in fact creative works are derivative - more so in games as systems become best in class and become industry standards.

And I think that is what sets off a lot of animosity online. You dont think its GOTY, its because you didnt understand it like me. You didnt like the last jedi, its because you dont get the themes.

Theres no place for the arguments that appreciate the medium but fall short in several areas. Not because they are poor, just because they are not as good as they could have been. And handwaved away
 
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Bartski

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All cross-genre game rankings are stupid.
This year, however, I'd love to see TLOU2 win some GOTYs for youtube outrage farmer meltdowns alone.
I'm pretty sure it won't, for similar reasons RDR2 and Death Stranding didn't. Winners are usually games of universal praise from both critics and consumers, nobody can say that about TLOU2 and that's ok.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was some form of sunk-cost fallacy. They put so much energy and time trying to hype up the game, so much time trying to justify the leaks, that they can't possibly imagine that the game just isn't all that great. Just reading the first page of this thread shows the cult-like nature of their thought process.
And you'd be absolutely right with your assessment when it comes to one user.
 

Dorohedoro

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All cross-genre game rankings are stupid.
This year, however, I'd love to see TLOU2 win some GOTYs for youtube outrage farmer meltdowns alone.
I'm pretty sure it won't, for similar reasons RDR2 and Death Stranding didn't. Winners are usually games of universal praise from both critics and consumers, nobody can say that about TLOU2 and that's ok.
Wouldn't surprise me, its not a "comfort food" game.
 

Delco Airsoft

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I also don't agree with some of the story beats in TLOU 2 and the flashback scenes seemed kind of thrown around

All in all it's still a good game and the gameplay is incredible. I'm very excited for their next game using this upgraded engine
If the game was just in chronological order it would have been so much more engaging!
 
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Woggleman

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To me GTA V was one of my biggest letdowns and I was hyped since I saw that first trailer but I don't sit here seething because it has been such a success. I don't send death threats to the actor who played Trevor and I don't call everybody who gave it a good review a paid shill. I accept that people wanted different things from GTA than I did.
 
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MiguelItUp

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The game plays like TLOU1, with the addition of prone and jump. The gameplay is mediocre, so if that’s the best part, what’s that make the story?
Well, the dodge too! But.... That's really it. I felt like the TLOU2 additions made it feel a bit better than TLOU gameplay-wise. But I still don't think it did enough to really "up-the-ante" of it at all. So personally I can understand people playing it and thinking it feels to similar, because, well, it kind of does.

I never quite understood the praise the AI got, it made the same amount of blunders and mistakes as the previous game. The difficulty really didn't improve that or make the game "better" either. So many people defended the original saying the game was best at the hardest difficulty, but a game's difficulty really shouldn't be the decipher of a product. That's ridiculous.
 
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tassletine

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I wouldn't say its the greatest story ever, but I do appreciate the effort made in telling it -its very detailed and accomplished with some truly standout sequences. Same deal with it as a pure example of gameplay, I enjoyed my time playing it but I would never say ND's "house style" represents to me the pinnacle of contemporary game design.

It is, in my considered opinion, a very high-quality piece of work. The sheer amount of effort that has undeniably been poured into every aspect justifies it as being a valid GOTY contender. That it isn't an emotional crowd pleaser like the first game should not in my view stand against it, because evidently that's not the reaction Druckmann and co were looking to elicit.

It does what it sets out to do bloody well, and while I understand not everyone will want to "buy" what its selling, I genuinely cannot and will not fault it for that.
They took six years to make the game, so it better be of high quality.
And you should check out the requirements for winning a game BAFTA now, you literally HAVE to have political messages in your games, and be actively spreading a political message with your team to qualify — so that is why it’s a game of the year contender — because it probably wouldn’t get the award If it didn’t dance to that tune.

Personally, I think it’s a game made by people who live on Twitter and thinks the whole world acts like that, and wants to.
 

tassletine

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Seems like a strange concept but hear me out for a second...

Why do people care so much about games they've never played and never intend to play? As an example, Persona 5 is a game that I have less than zero interest and every video I've ever seen of it leads me to conclude it's a game I'd despise playing. So I haven't played it and don't intend to play it. But I don't critique it either precisely because I haven't played it so I have no basis to critique it.

Yet with TLoU2 so many freaks on this forum and across the internet are frothing at the mouth with obsessive rage and hatred for it, and yet they've never played it and admit they never would play. It's a mixture of sad and pathetic how much energy people expand on hating something they've never played and will never play when they could just ignore it and instead use that energy instead to focus on something they like.
It’s only this game. The game is designed to be controversial and provoke. That’s pretty much all it does.
 
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Wolvers

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I just finished after being completely dark on what happens and having recently beat TLOU1 again. The first game is one of my favourites from last-gen. TLOU2 might be my favourite of all time.

I literally can't fathom what is going through the mind of anyone who thinks the story or characters are badly done.
 

Woggleman

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I just finished after being completely dark on what happens and having recently beat TLOU1 again. The first game is one of my favourites from last-gen. TLOU2 might be my favourite of all time.

I literally can't fathom what is going through the mind of anyone who thinks the story or characters are badly done.
Once the outrage brigaders on either side get their talons in something facts stop mattering. I still see people insisting that Abby is transgender when it just is not the case.
 
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idrago01

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Nah, TLOU2's story isn't pseudo intellectual, its just trying to be its own thing, and not simply pander to fan expectations.

And yes, while there are modish elements of progressivism and diversity, it doesn't grandstand its politics and in actuality is more a critique of excesses perpetrated in the name of personal, subjective moralities. Classical liberalism in short.

I find no fault with either of these things.
Thanks for the laugh my man, I didn't realize killing joel with a golf club by a roided out he/she in the first twenty minutes was just them not pandering to fan expectations
 
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idrago01

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Once the outrage brigaders on either side get their talons in something facts stop mattering. I still see people insisting that Abby is transgender when it just is not the case.
yeah she looks perfectly normal, i can't possibly see how people confuse her for being a he/she
 
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sncvsrtoip

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The ending could be done better (I still like it tough agree with some criticism of it) but still with rdr2 best game of this console generation
 
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Cleared_Hot

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(This is a troll thread and not actually a video to shut up the haters, because it is purely critical of TLOU2 and Neil Druckmann).

Actually it isn't necessarily a bad video. I think he is trying, but sadly he is trying to find excuses for why he doesn't like TLOU2. He doesn't go deep enough, but rather relies on implying to make Neil Druckmann look like a bad person. I am not saying he is wrong since I don't know the actual background at Naughty Dog and if it is as bad as he is trying to portrait here, but the way he presents his facts and anecdotes he is trying to shine a bad light on ND.

One thing that baffles me though is how Naughty Dog manages to make the best games after "so many people quit. A mass EXODUS" he calls it, releasing TLL and TLOU2 in such a short time with TLOU2 being so much better than any other game and making other veteran developers look like amateurs.

All in all the video is better than drive by comments from people that read the leaks and he is trying to look into where Neil Druckmann is coming from. I can respect that even if I disagree and think Uncharted 4 and TLOU2 is the best Naughty Dog has ever been. It sucks for those that hate the new Naughty Dog, but it isn't my job to make other people like or dislike what I (dis)like.
Uncharted 4 is the best ND has ever been. TLUO is also the best they have ever been. TLOU2 is not. It's close in terms of graphics, animation, and many gameplay elements; however, the writing was at it's absolute weakest.
 
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Clear

Deer/Dur
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Thanks for the laugh my man, I didn't realize killing joel with a golf club by a roided out he/she in the first twenty minutes was just them not pandering to fan expectations
The real question is why did it bother you that much? Bottom line is that Joel was the lead in the first game, but not in Left Behind. It was indicated well in advance of release who we'd be playing as primarily, and the change of protagonist had basically zero impact on how the sequel plays.

Would you feel any different if say Abby and co only broke his legs, and the rest of the game played out exactly the same? What exactly is the issue? That they didn't leave an out for him to come back, or that you simply couldn't bear to see your waifu get beaten down by an organized group of vigilantes?
 
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Raonak

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The gameplay is very good, it's like MGS lite which makes me hyped for factions.

But even beyond that, Imo, it's one of the best videogame stories I've played.
First one is more satisfying because the ending is more nicer, but I absolutely loved how they didn't play it safe for pt2. Like how many games have a legitimately sad ending? Not a bittersweet one, not one of many endings, but the single canon ending of the game.

your enjoyment of the story will depend on how much you empathise with the second set of characters... To me, I hated them at first then started understanding their perspective and sorta started liking them.

Drukkmans evil master plan worked on me.
 

MiguelItUp

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The funniest thing is that he thinks he was being "fair" when in actuality, he tried to deprive others the opportunity to express dissenting opinions by abusing the report button.
I just figured homeboy just liked the game... A whole lot. Haha.
 

tassletine

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I just finished after being completely dark on what happens and having recently beat TLOU1 again. The first game is one of my favourites from last-gen. TLOU2 might be my favourite of all time.

I literally can't fathom what is going through the mind of anyone who thinks the story or characters are badly done.
They’re lying for effect — but mostly just upset that the writing isn’t as good as the first. It’s not bad, but it certainly doesn’t take 30 hours to tell that story.
 
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tassletine

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The gameplay is very good, it's like MGS lite which makes me hyped for factions.

But even beyond that, Imo, it's one of the best videogame stories I've played.
First one is more satisfying because the ending is more nicer, but I absolutely loved how they didn't play it safe for pt2. Like how many games have a legitimately sad ending? Not a bittersweet one, not one of many endings, but the single canon ending of the game.

your enjoyment of the story will depend on how much you empathise with the second set of characters... To me, I hated them at first then started understanding their perspective and sorta started liking them.

Drukkmans evil master plan worked on me.
Most games end like that if you actually think about how many people you kill. So, having the main character break down In tears and realise that, seemed pretty silly to me after all the killing.
It goes against the actions portrayed during the game and also the basic desire of most players, who are fully aware that video games operate in this sort of nonsense space — where you can have it both ways — except here you can’t have it both ways because ND have SOMETHING TO SAY and will damn well make you listen. Good job I loved the gameplay.
 
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tassletine

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The same people who claim to hate snowflakes and say that artists should have the right to make the art they want become very snowflakey when Neil Druckmann makes the art that he wants. The only truly political part of the game is the conflict between the WLF and Seraphites. Gays and muscular women is not political in my book. They are just people who part of life.
Those characters may not be political to you or me but they certainly are to Druckman — so you should take it that he means something, given the huge amount of detail that they put into the game.
 

Wolvers

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They’re lying for effect — but mostly just upset that the writing isn’t as good as the first. It’s not bad, but it certainly doesn’t take 30 hours to tell that story.
I'll have to replay it to fairly compare but the writing to me seemed good. Very good, even. Maybe the plot is polarising but it remains well-told and scripted. It was an interesting character study and contrasted the two protagonists and their stories well. They actually managed to make me feel something for Abby which I would have never dreamed in the opening two hours.

It's the sequel I never wanted but I'm glad I got it.
 

Raonak

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Most games end like that if you actually think about how many people you kill. So, having the main character break down In tears and realise that, seemed pretty silly to me after all the killing.
It goes against the actions portrayed during the game and also the basic desire of most players, who are fully aware that video games operate in this sort of nonsense space — where you can have it both ways — except here you can’t have it both ways because ND have SOMETHING TO SAY and will damn well make you listen. Good job I loved the gameplay.
The ending worked for me precisely because not many games reflect on the actions of the player. And whether what they did was worth it.

It's pararells TLOU1 in that way. Where you spend the whole game trying to get a cure only to give it up and you're left wondering ... Did Joel do the right thing?
And the game ending with the Joel flashback showing us that YES. He do the right thing, because to him it was the right thing to do.

The message resonated so hard for me, so personally, I'm glad ND has something to say, because it's way more interesting.
 

tassletine

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The ending worked for me precisely because not many games reflect on the actions of the player. And whether what they did was worth it.

It's pararells TLOU1 in that way. Where you spend the whole game trying to get a cure only to give it up and you're left wondering ... Did Joel do the right thing?
And the game ending with the Joel flashback showing us that YES. He do the right thing, because to him it was the right thing to do.

The message resonated so hard for me, so personally, I'm glad ND has something to say, because it's way more interesting.
I'm glad it worked for you. I found the game was far too long for the story it wanted to tell, and didn't say anything new -- as getting to know a killer is what you do in almost every videogame.

I don't think there's any reflection personally because I've thought about those things before this title, so any message (which I found to be incredibly muddled anyway) was lost in all the bombast. It felt very forced and much like call of duty or something similar by the end. Just murder and sensationalism for it's own sake, but with women rather than men this time.

And that's fine for a videogame, as most of them do this sort of one note story. The only thing I really object to is that the people who made the game drew the campaign out to try and make that message feel more important and grand.
 

tassletine

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I'll have to replay it to fairly compare but the writing to me seemed good. Very good, even. Maybe the plot is polarising but it remains well-told and scripted. It was an interesting character study and contrasted the two protagonists and their stories well. They actually managed to make me feel something for Abby which I would have never dreamed in the opening two hours.

It's the sequel I never wanted but I'm glad I got it.
I don't think there really was much of a plot, more a character study. I didn't find those characters very interesting though.
The game is exceptionally well staged with some great moments but the story doesn't make much sense unless you are prepared to buy into everything that the game makers throw at you -- and I just had enough of their flip flopping by the end.

For instance one moment the game asks you to read very subtle emotional cues from the acting, and get into the realism of the world with the bench / gun customisation for example . The other they're asking you to watch a pregnant woman climb a rope. One moment you're a killing machine, the next you're letting the target of your revenge go. It's just all over the place.

Like when they show you the flash of Joel at the end -- given what we know about Ellie, surely seeing Joel's face at the end would perhaps drive her to kill, not the other way around?
But the story HAS to happen that way to make the authour's point, so it feels contrived -- As does hunting someone down, cutting them down, and Lev too, then letting them go, then deciding not to, then deciding to kill once again. Then deciding not to.
And of course you have to cut down Lev because Abby needs that character for her story, but why didn't Ellie cut down anyone else? Loads of people there needed help, but instead she has to go through that whole I'm saving you, no I'm not, Yes I am, crap. It's just too much for the story to handle and feels very much like the authours had no real clue. That it's done with such earnestness and drama does make some people buy into it, and it did work for me at points, but I just found it funny more than anything.
 
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Terenty

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"Please everyone, stop hating on a game I like, and if you don't like it you are wrong and just a hater, Neil Druckman is the greatest artist of out time" OP
Is it really that hard to spend 20 seconds and read the OP? I'm the opposite of Druckmann's fan and the video shows what a hack writer he really is. Pity noone seems to bother watching it
 

Wolvers

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I don't think there really was much of a plot, more a character study. I didn't find those characters very interesting though.
The game is exceptionally well staged with some great moments but the story doesn't make much sense unless you are prepared to buy into everything that the game makers throw at you -- and I just had enough of their flip flopping by the end.

For instance one moment the game asks you to read very subtle emotional cues from the acting, and get into the realism of the world with the bench / gun customisation for example . The other they're asking you to watch a pregnant woman climb a rope. One moment you're a killing machine, the next you're letting the target of your revenge go. It's just all over the place.

Like when they show you the flash of Joel at the end -- given what we know about Ellie, surely seeing Joel's face at the end would perhaps drive her to kill, not the other way around?
But the story HAS to happen that way to make the authour's point, so it feels contrived -- As does hunting someone down, cutting them down, and Lev too, then letting them go, then deciding not to, then deciding to kill once again. Then deciding not to.
And of course you have to cut down Lev because Abby needs that character for her story, but why didn't Ellie cut down anyone else? Loads of people there needed help, but instead she has to go through that whole I'm saving you, no I'm not, Yes I am, crap. It's just too much for the story to handle and feels very much like the authours had no real clue. That it's done with such earnestness and drama does make some people buy into it, and it did work for me at points, but I just found it funny more than anything.
With Joel, it was more like ... Ellie didn't know how to forgive him, she didn't know how someone could do something like that, even out of love. And then at the end she sees herself, blinded by revenge and drowning someone who spared her life twice and didn't want to fight, and realises that the love she had for Joel has taken her to the same point - there's no morality, only emotion.

At this point she's finally able to forgive Joel and is also able to let her anger go.

I think it was super well done.
 

Shmunter

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Oh believe me, I agree. It's the lowest of low storylines. The problem is the fanbase and critics thinking it's groundbreaking lol
Don’t allow yourself to become a parody of what the SJW’s accuse every outsider off
 
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I know Last of Us drama is not relevant anymore, but nevertheless i decided its worth posting just to shut up the last haters of the game. Here's an interesting look at how the ideas behind this unquestionable Schindler's List of games came to be. Having watched it i have no doubt Neil Druckmann will be recognised as one of the best writers of our time
/s



Edit. I have a suspicion half the people in this thread haven't watched the video
I have seen this video, he's got his opinion. For me LOU Part II is a masterpiece in story telling!
 
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Woggleman

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At the end of the day it is just a video game. I can't believe you have so many people getting so worked up and angry over a video game. Is it really that serious to be so obsessed with something that at the end of the day is trivial? People debate this like it is actual important political discussion.
 

Bragr

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I'll have to replay it to fairly compare but the writing to me seemed good. Very good, even. Maybe the plot is polarising but it remains well-told and scripted. It was an interesting character study and contrasted the two protagonists and their stories well. They actually managed to make me feel something for Abby which I would have never dreamed in the opening two hours.

It's the sequel I never wanted but I'm glad I got it.
Most gamers don't know what writing or gameplay is. They think the large plot points are all there is to the writing and that the gameplay is just shooting. I wasn't blown away by the story but the general writing of the game, all the dialogue and all the nuances under the hood are very well done.

I also don't understand what they are comparing it too, as 99.99% of games are a helluva lot worse than this when it comes to writing or gameplay systems.