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News The PS5 worked fine with the slowest compatible SSD we could find

IntentionalPun

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You're confusing the interface with the disk. Plugging a 4.0 disk into a 3.0 slot doesn't make the disk itself run at half speed. It simply becomes limited by the older slot's throughput which is ~3.5GB/s on 3.0 and ~7GB/s on 4.0.
No it gets limited by the per-lane throughput.

nVME drives use 4 lanes (generally, some server-class drives differ)... and a Gen 4 drive at ~7.5GB/second maxes out the per-lane throughput of PCIE 4.0, which is a little under 2GB/second.

If a Gen 5 drive goes for 2 lanes to reach 7.5GB/second speeds.. it wouldn't get those speeds on a Gen 4 slot.. as a Gen 4 slot can only run about ~1.9GB/second per lane.
 
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Well you are when you compare it to tasks that are a lot more complicated then plugging in an NVME. I'm definitely not trying to oversimply the process. I've posted many videos showing how it's done.
I can tell you don't do those things because most of them are not more complicated at all.
 

IntentionalPun

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I think many PC gamers greatly under-sell the complexity of building an actual PC.. but adding an NVME to a machine w/ an easy to access slot?

Come on lol.. it's really not comparable.

Too intimidating for some people? Sure.. many people.. but really.. it's also just not what most people would ever spend money on anyways. Anyone willing to spend $150 for a drive to keep a bunch of games on their PS5 is likely not going to make a big deal out of installing an nVME.

They can always just use an external for cold storage if they really feel it's too complex.

And honestly, who gives a shit? Why do we care if some casual is intimidating by nVME drives? Is anyone here not going to do it? It's Sony's problem if this disuades some casuals from a PS5, not ours.
 
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Hoddi

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No it gets limited by the per-lane throughput.

nVME drives use 4 lanes (generally, some server-class drives differ)... and a Gen 4 drive at ~7.5GB/second maxes out the per-lane throughput of PCIE 4.0, which is a little under 2GB/second.

If a Gen 5 drive goes for 2 lanes to reach 7.5GB/second speeds.. it wouldn't get those speeds on a Gen 4 slot.. as a Gen 4 slot can only run about ~1.9GB/second per lane.

Not unless it works differently from a 4.0 drive in a 3.0 slot. Those have no trouble maxing out the 4x link on 3.0.


Edit:

I'm not sure why you're dragging 2x links into this. The PS5 has a 4x interface and it would simply run each 5.0 lane at half speed.
 
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I think many PC gamers greatly under-sell the complexity of building an actual PC.. but adding an NVME to a machine w/ an easy to access slot?

Come on lol.. it's really not comparable.

Too intimidating for some people? Sure.. many people.. but really.. it's also just not what most people would ever spend money on anyways. Anyone willing to spend $150 for a drive to keep a bunch of games on their PS5 is likely not going to make a big deal out of installing an nVME.

They can always just use an external for cold storage if they really feel it's too complex.

And honestly, who gives a shit? Why do we care if some casual is intimidating by nVME drives? Is anyone here not going to do it? It's Sony's problem if this disuades some casuals from a PS5, not ours.

I'm pretty sure the people that can handle it are in the minority. Definitely building a PC is a lot easier than just plugging in an NVME. I know because I built one myself and the PS5 memory expansion looks easier to me.
 

IntentionalPun

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Not unless it works differently from a 4.0 drive in a 3.0 slot. Those have no trouble maxing out the 4x link on 3.0.

I feel like you aren't reading my posts... or not understanding the "per lane" concept.

A drive pushing 7GB/second on 2 PCIE 5.0 lanes, isn't going to get 7GB/second on a PCIE 4.0 motherboard, because that board can't push 3.5GB/second per lane. It would instead max out the 2 lane max for a PCIE 4.0 motherboard.. which is around 4GB/second.
 
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THEAP99

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Can someone take the ps5 ssd out of the console and test it on PC?
 
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I disagree sorta. I left out electrical work for a reason.

Well I tend to do everything with my line of work. Sometimes you just have to plug a card in and that's something anyone can do. Other times you have to replace diodes in the card itself and that requires specialized training.

A lot of your examples I just don't find on the same level of complexity as replacing the NVME.
 

Hoddi

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I feel like you aren't reading my posts... or not understanding the "per lane" concept.

A drive pushing 7GB/second on 2 PCIE 5.0 lanes, isn't going to get 7GB/second on a PCIE 4.0 motherboard, because that board can't push 3.5GB/second per lane. It would instead max out the 2 lane max for a PCIE 4.0 motherboard.. which is around 4GB/second.
Ya, I don't disagree. But you mentioned 11GB/s disks in your first post and those will always use 4x links. It's not gonna drop to just 2x links if you plug them into a PS5 but each 5.0 link will rather run at half speed.

So, instead of running 4x 5.0 links at ~14GB/s then this disk would run with 4x 4.0 links at ~7GB/s.
 
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Well I tend to do everything with my line of work. Sometimes you just have to plug a card in and that's something anyone can do. Other times you have to replace diodes in the card itself and that requires specialized training.

A lot of your examples I just don't find on the same level of complexity as replacing the NVME.
Because you are going to the extremes of fixing your car. Most repairs are very easy. Some of course are not but most minor repairs are done by mechanics and not by the owner. Installing an nvme is easy, but so is changing brakes, oil out even your starter. Building kitchen cabinets or laying down flooring is very easy. Upgrading your windows in your house is stupid simple. Replacing an electric hot water heater again the list goes on. They all have very few steps and have plenty of YouTube videos on how to do them, but they aren't commonly done by the owner anymore. I have no issue with Sony's approach.
 

IntentionalPun

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Ya, I don't disagree. But you mentioned 11GB/s disks in your first post and those will always use 4x links. It's not gonna drop to just 2x links if you plug them into a PS5 but each 5.0 link will rather run at half speed.

So, instead of running 4x 5.0 links at ~14GB/s then this disk would run with 4x 4.0 links at ~7GB/s.
Yeah I dont think you saw my edits.

If it's pushing the per-lane 50% over the previous gen, you'd get 2/3rds the perf, not half..

I did misspeak at first, but just wasn't being detailed enough... it's all about how far they are pushing the per-lane on 5.0. We could see some Gen 5 x2 cards due to how much they can push per lane is my point.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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What are the exact measurements of the nvme slot?

I am thinking as a extra precaution to add a super small USB powered fan somehow.
 
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Because you are going to the extremes of fixing your car. Most repairs are very easy. Some of course are not but most minor repairs are done by mechanics and not by the owner. Installing an nvme is easy, but so is changing brakes, oil out even your starter. Building kitchen cabinets or laying down flooring is very easy. Upgrading your windows in your house is stupid simple. Replacing an electric hot water heater again the list goes on. They all have very few steps and have plenty of YouTube videos on how to do them, but they aren't commonly done by the owner anymore. I have no issue with Sony's approach.

I did mention inflating tires. That's one of the most basic things you can do with a vehicle. Also I wouldn't call some of those things as easy as swapping out an NVME. I had to rebuild the brakes on an LMHA and that requires more work than swapping out an NVME.

For me swapping out an NVME is as simple as replacing a fuse. That's the level of simplicity that I would give it.

Anyways I'm also fine with what Sony has done. It's a very simple process and even easier than what you had to do with the PS4. For one you don't have to worry about installing the OS which I did when I replaced my PS4s HDD. With that said in satisfied that there are so many options already available. This is probably the best thing about the PS5s memory expansion route.
 
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Hoddi

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Yeah I dont think you saw my edits.

If it's pushing the per-lane 50% over the previous gen, you'd get 2/3rds the perf, not half..

I did misspeak at first, but just wasn't being detailed enough... it's all about how far they are pushing the per-lane on 5.0. We could see some Gen 5 x2 cards due to how much they can push per lane is my point.
That's fair enough. Keep in mind though that 5.0 doubles the per-lane throughput of 4.0 rather than increasing it by 50%.

Either way, I just looked at Sony's support page and the PS5 only supports 4x disks. So, any 5.0 disk should simply go into the fall-back mode that is built into the PCIe standard which would be a 4x 4.0 link on PS5.
 
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I did mention inflating tires. That's one of the most basic things you can do with a vehicle. Also I wouldn't call some of those things as easy as swapping out an NVME. I had to rebuild the brakes on an LMHA and that requires more work than swapping out an NVME.

For me swapping out an NVME is as simple as replacing a fuse. That's the level of simplicity that I would give it.

Anyways I'm also fine with what Sony has done. It's a very simple process and even easier than what you had to do with the PS4. For one you don't have to worry about installing the OS which I did when I replaced my PS4s HDD. With that said in satisfied that there are so many options already available. This is probably the best thing about the PS5s memory expansion route.
On most modern cars to change brakes you need a 5$ wrench set and a flat hard thing. Things with more steps are not by nature more complicated. Most confuse instructions with complications.
 
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On most modern cars to change brakes you need a 5$ wrench set and a flat hard thing. Things with more steps are not by nature more complicated. Most confuse instructions with complications.

True but I don't see how the NVME is as complicated as that. Maybe I'm just used to doing complicated tasks that I don't see it as being difficult for some people.

Edit: I'm not trying to disrespect people that have issues with it. Just saying that Sony designed it so that most won't.
 
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IntentionalPun

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That's fair enough. Keep in mind though that 5.0 doubles the per-lane throughput of 4.0 rather than increasing it by 50%.

Either way, I just looked at Sony's support page and the PS5 only supports 4x disks. So, any 5.0 disk should simply go into the fall-back mode that is built into the PCIe standard which would be a 4x 4.0 link on PS5.
Yes it doubles it.. that's what I said lol

My point being that if a drive pushes the spec to 50% past 4.0, instead of 100% (what is possible) instead of getting half perf, you'd get 2/3rds. (my way of correcting my "it's going to be half" statement)
 
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ethomaz

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I never heard of this before.

Was this confirmed at some point?
PCIe versions are compatibles with previous ones… so a PCIe 4.0 SSD works in a PCI3 3.0 slot… the opposite is the issue a PCIe 3.0 SSD won’t works in a PCIe 4.0 slot (useless you force the compatibility mode on BIOS or OS options).

Yes a PCIe 5.0 or 6.0 SSD will works in a PCIe 4.0 slot.

Of course the SSD will run limited at the slot version.
 
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ethomaz

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That's fair enough. Keep in mind though that 5.0 doubles the per-lane throughput of 4.0 rather than increasing it by 50%.

Either way, I just looked at Sony's support page and the PS5 only supports 4x disks. So, any 5.0 disk should simply go into the fall-back mode that is built into the PCIe standard which would be a 4x 4.0 link on PS5.
Exactly.
If there is no other limitation a PCIe 5.0 drive will reach at max 8GB/s on PS5.
 

Hoddi

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PCIe versions are compatibles with previous ones… so a PCIe 4.0 SSD works in a PCI3 3.0 slot… the opposite is the issue a PCIe 3.0 SSD won’t works in a PCIe 4.0 slot.
It should, actually. I think many people underestimate the backwards compatibility of PCIe because I've never had issues using older hardware in newer motherboards or vice versa.

You can still put a 2.0 GPU into a 4.0 motherboard and it will simply run a bit slower. The same should be true of SSDs and will hopefully still be true once 5.0 arrives.

And, yeah, a 5.0 drive should simply fall back to 4.0 mode on PS5.
 

ethomaz

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Yes it doubles it.. that's what I said lol

My point being that if a drive pushes the spec to 50% past 4.0, instead of 100% (what is possible) instead of getting half perf, you'd get 2/3rds. (my way of correcting my "it's going to be half" statement)
I understand what you are looking for but I’m afraid it doesn’t work like that.

The number of lanes for the NAND in the SSD doesn’t need to match the number of lanes in the PCIe slot.

So a 2 lanes SSD can use a PCIe 4x slot… in that point a 8GB/s PCIe 5.0 SSD with two lanes will reach 8GB/s in a PCIe 4.0 4x slot.

The limitation is that no matter what (well let’s not talk about PCIe overclock here) your PCIe 4.0 4x slot will run at max 8GB/s… so a 9GB/s, 10GB/s or more SSD will be limited at 8GB/s.
 
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Ulysses 31

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the opposite is the issue a PCIe 3.0 SSD won’t works in a PCIe 4.0 slot.
Wrong, PCI-E 3.0 SSD can work in PCI-E 4.0 slots provided it's set to work as a Gen3 slot.

On PC you can set it manually or auto-detect.
 
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ethomaz

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Wrong, PCI-E 3.0 SSD can work in PCI-E 4.0 slots provided it's set to work as a Gen3 slot.

On PC you can set it manually or auto-detect.
Because you can set that in PC… force the slot.
You can force in Windows registry too.

I will edit my post thanks.
 
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IbizaPocholo

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The PS5 shines in terms of raw power, boasting a beefy CPU along with a competent graphics horsepower. However, its storage does leave a lot to be desired, as its 667 GB of usable space can fill up very easily with just a handful of current AAA releases. Fans have been clamoring for quite a while for activating the M.2 expansion slot on a software level, and beta firmware users can now expand the storage.

However, the SSD needs to play by Sony's rules. The SSD should be a PCI-e 4.0 NVME drive with at least 5,500 MB/s read speeds. To ensure cooling, it also needs to have a heatsink installed which should fit within the dimensions specified by Sony. That being said, fans can, of course, install marginally slower SSDs without much of a performance hit. Here's a list of the best SSDs you can put in your PS5 - which includes both official and unofficial choices. Note that all prices are for the 1 TB variant, and smaller or bigger variants will obviously cost lower or higher accordingly.
 

Ulysses 31

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Because you can set that in PC… force the slot.
Why you call it forcing? It's a setting. The PCI-E 4.0 just cuts its max speed per lane in half to run in Gen3 mode.

I'm sure it could be done on PS5 too but that probably wouldn't be a good idea unless PS5 games can only be stored there when running in Gen3 mode.
 

ethomaz

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Why you call it forcing? It's a setting. The PCI-E 4.0 just cuts its max speed per lane in half to run in Gen3 mode.

I'm sure it could be done on PS5 too but that probably wouldn't be a good idea unless PS5 games can only be stored there when running in Gen3 mode.
Because that is how it is called.
Some motherboard doesn’t even works with old GPUs (the GPU won’t show picture on monitor) and you can’t enter the BIOS to Force Gen3 because the GPU is not working… so you have to find a newer GPU, to output to monitor, force the settling on BIOS and finally use your old GPU.

Well not that old at all… most GPU in the part years are Gen3.

Some examples.





I mean if you get a black screen from the go there is no way to force go Gen3 unless you rent another card to do force it before use your own one… or use the IGP of the CPU if it has one.

BTW you can’t force PCIe to works in Gen3 on PS5.
 
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Md Ray

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Not unless it works differently from a 4.0 drive in a 3.0 slot. Those have no trouble maxing out the 4x link on 3.0.


Edit:

I'm not sure why you're dragging 2x links into this. The PS5 has a 4x interface and it would simply run each 5.0 lane at half speed.
So even the slowest Gen5 drive (assuming 7.8GB/s) should be capable of hitting 7GB/s read speeds on a Gen4 slot, right?
 
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Sw0pDiller

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and what game scenario you think, more than rachet showed, the devs need to find to tap that limit?)))) ...obviously all this before having problems with the gpu limit ... because from my point of view rachet stresses the ps5 GPU quite a bit
I really dont know cuz i only play games and know nothing about development. But I will bet that sometime down the line there will be some hate going around because some people use a "slow" m.2 drive and some games will not play nice with it. I'll be there saying: "told you so"
 
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Where's all this "installing an m.2 is hard" stuff coming from? I'm pretty sure casuals know how to use a screw driver.

My guess.

Some people are just trying to turn it into a negative. They really don't have anything else so they use what they can. And honestly it's pretty sad that all they can really complain about is a screw driver.
 

Velius

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This just in we called the PS5 the worst names possible and it was still so chill and alpha
GOTY
 

Ulysses 31

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Because that is how it is called.
Some motherboard doesn’t even works with old GPUs (the GPU won’t show picture on monitor) and you can’t enter the BIOS to Force Gen3 because the GPU is not working… so you have to find a newer GPU, to output to monitor, force the settling on BIOS and finally use your old GPU.

Well not that old at all… most GPU in the part years are Gen3.
It's the wrong term, forcing implies you're making something happen that the system doesn't "want" to do normally. Changing a normally accessible setting in (PC)bios does not qualify as forcing.

In case of the PS5 where there currently is no setting to tell the system which Gen the port should work under it would be more applicable to call it forcing if somehow it got made to run Gen3 SSDs.
Some examples.





I mean if you get a black screen from the go there is no way to force go Gen3 unless you rent another card to do force it before use your own one… or use the IGP of the CPU if it has one.
That's a work around for the black screen, you're changing a setting afterwards with the other card and not forcing anything.
BTW you can’t force PCIe to works in Gen3 on PS5.
The PS5 is blocking it on some hardware/software level. If it ever got jailbroken I'm sure it could be changed to allow running games from a Gen3 SSD too, or even from Gen2/1.

PIC-E is backwards compatible. A Gen4 SSD can work in a Gen3 slot and a Gen3 SSD can work in a Gen4 slot. That this doesn't apply with the PC5 is because of something in the PS5 and not the PCI-E slots/SSDs.
 

Duchess

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Where's all this "installing an m.2 is hard" stuff coming from? I'm pretty sure casuals know how to use a screw driver.
Personally, the only bit about the process that would give me pause is removing the panel from the PS5. I've a tendency to break shit like that, even when just following the instructions and videos :/
 

jaysius

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I think many PC gamers greatly under-sell the complexity of building an actual PC.. but adding an NVME to a machine w/ an easy to access slot?
Complete opposite, building a PC is brain-dead simple, they gatekeep it's complexity to have a false sense of superiority which is pure bullshit.
 
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Complete opposite, building a PC is brain-dead simple, they gatekeep it's complexity to have a false sense of superiority which is pure bullshit.

Well installing an NVME is still simpler than building a PS5. Luckily consumers don't have to build the console so that's a lot of work out of their hands.
 

MilkyJoe

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jaysius

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Well installing an NVME is still simpler than building a PS5. Luckily consumers don't have to build the console so that's a lot of work out of their hands.
Building a console and building a PC are two completely different things, consoles are all specialized pieces of hardware intentionally made hard for the end user to disassemble so that they require direct help from the manufacturer or in most cases today a 3rd party random fixer person, they also contain niche hardware that upon breaking in many cases require "donor" units aka other broken shit. This keeps common users from opening their own machines and keeps console sales strong over the life of the device.

A PC is very easy to fix and assemble.

Good derail attempt, bad logical fallacy. My comment was specifically about PC builders.

Building a console is nowhere near equivalent to building a PC.
 
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Building a console and building a PC are two completely different things, consoles are all specialized pieces of hardware intentionally made hard for the end user to disassemble so that they require direct help from the manufacturer or in most cases today a 3rd party random fixer person.

A PC is very easy to fix and assemble.

Good derail attempt, bad logical fallacy. My comment was specifically about PC builders.

Building a console is nowhere near equivalent to building a PC.

I know PCs are easy to assemble sine I built one myself. But it's still easier to install an NVME than build a PC. But neither task is difficult BTW.

Edit: The most complicated thing about building a PC is making sure all the parts work together. You certainly don't want to buy an AMD MOBO and try to install an Intel processor in it. You also have to make sure your power supply is enough for the build among other things. Not difficult with a bit of research but certainly not as easy as just having to worry about an NVME.
 
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ethomaz

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People are already used to install M.2 drivers on their PC or notebooks.

That small task is way easier on PS5 than PC or notebooks.

The M.2 interface is already made for easy plug in play.
 
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Dream-Knife

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Complete opposite, building a PC is brain-dead simple, they gatekeep it's complexity to have a false sense of superiority which is pure bullshit.

I know PCs are easy to assemble sine I built one myself. But it's still easier to install an NVME than build a PC. But neither task is difficult BTW.

Edit: The most complicated thing about building a PC is making sure all the parts work together. You certainly don't want to buy an AMD MOBO and try to install an Intel processor in it. You also have to make sure your power supply is enough for the build among other things. Not difficult with a bit of research but certainly not as easy as just having to worry about an NVME.
I found wiring to be annoying.
 
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IntentionalPun

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Complete opposite, building a PC is brain-dead simple, they gatekeep it's complexity to have a false sense of superiority which is pure bullshit.
I've never seen this.. PC folks always claim it's super easy, and mock anyone who buys a pre-built.
 
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I found wiring to be annoying.

The worse part is looking at schematics to figure out where it goes. You definitely don't want to screw up one wire and then spend hours trying to figure out what you did.

Edit: NVM you were talking about PCs. Yes cable management can be annoying especially when you want to make everything look neat and not just a mess of wires.
 
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Hoddi

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So even the slowest Gen5 drive (assuming 7.8GB/s) should be capable of hitting 7GB/s read speeds on a Gen4 slot, right?
As long as the disk itself is fast enough then yes.

I also just verified this on my own PC by lowering the PCIe gen in BIOS. My 3.0 disks both run at ~850MB/s on gen 1.1 and ~1.7GB/s on 2.0.
 
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