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News The PS5 worked fine with the slowest compatible SSD we could find

kingfey

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The thing is, that SSD isn't even running at 3.9gbs sustained speed . 3.9 is the MAX speed. Its running at maybe 2-3.0 sustained speed. While XS runs at 2.4 sustained speed.

Its quite obvious that people who were preaching that PS5's SSD has 12 billion channels and R&C is bringing the SSD to its knees and wont even run on XS and you need a 7GB/s to even match the performance were clueless. This isn't any different than the UE5 scenario.
Even if the speed is 100gb, its all depend on the level of the knowledge the devs has to utilize this new tech. The devs would need Mark Cerny brain to utilize the true power of the SSD.

You have the limited engine, which was specifically designed for a certain hardware, until they upgrade it.

This is epic trying to rewrite their engine to meet ps5 ssd.


We should see the real potential of the SSD being achieved in the mid cycle. Just like how Ghost of tsushima and Last of us 2 utilized the base ps4, and delivered a fantastic performance, despite the weak hardware.

Or I am just an idiot in this language and have no clue what I am talking about.
 

phil_t98

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Well a 3090 is already vastly more powerful than a 3060.

You didn't have to wait several years to see the results.

If a system is vastly more powerful than another the results should be be visible at launch. Kind of like the XSS vs the XSX or the PS5 compared to the XSS.

Look at games at the beginning of the PS4 Xbox one era. The gap widens at the end of the gen with res drops and FPS drops on Xbox compared to PS4 . The same will happen this gen am sure in favour of Xbox as games get more demanding but as I said there could be areas the ps5 could be ahead like texture streaming and stuff. It will be interesting to see if the gaps widen in favour of what each console does better
 

RafterXL

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Lower frame-rate on XSX though which suggests XSX and PS5 would be on par even in HM3 w/ equalized res.
You're out of your mind.

You think the developers dropped the resolution AND shadow quality for the ENTIRE game on PS5 for the fuck of it? If the PS5 could have run 4k/high shadows you'd be playing it with 4k/high shadows. They obviously know the performance better than you, and decided that these things needed to be lower than the XSX version. And for the record, the XSX version runs at the same frame rate as the PS5 for 99% of the game, so when you claim this huge disparity in frame rate you're being disingenuous as hell.
 
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Not really and as we said previously, the drive speed is only part of it. We can't just ignore hardware decompression. R&C devs referred to that explicitly.

It's not like we are plugging in an 860Evo and getting similar results.



If that was the case I would be really concerned about the PS5s I/O.

Then there's the fact that the I/O complex is doing a lot with the NVME do you really can't say it's just the drive that's doing all the work.
 
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Md Ray

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You're out of your mind.

You think the developers dropped the resolution AND shadow quality for the ENTIRE game on PS5 for the fuck of it? If the PS5 could have run 4k/high shadows you'd be playing it with 4k/high shadows. They obviously know the performance better than you, and decided that these things needed to be lower than the XSX version. And for the record, the XSX version runs at the same frame rate as the PS5 for 99% of the game, so when you claim this huge disparity in frame rate you're being disingenuous as hell.
Locking the frame-rate masks the perf differential, obviously. Remove the 60fps cap and you'd consistently see a much higher frame rate on PS5. Anywhere from 15-20fps higher.
 

staticshock

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Even if the speed is 100gb, its all depend on the level of the knowledge the devs has to utilize this new tech. The devs would need Mark Cerny brain to utilize the true power of the SSD.

You have the limited engine, which was specifically designed for a certain hardware, until they upgrade it.

This is epic trying to rewrite their engine to meet ps5 ssd.


We should see the real potential of the SSD being achieved in the mid cycle. Just like how Ghost of tsushima and Last of us 2 utilized the base ps4, and delivered a fantastic performance, despite the weak hardware.

Or I am just an idiot in this language and have no clue what I am talking about.

The whole UE5 PS5 narrative has already been debunk by a dozen Unreal engine engineers and the creator of Nanite himself.
Not only do you not need Need SSD to run nanite, you don't even need a super fast ssd or even a NVME ssd to ultilize it to the fullest or to run the PS5 Lumen in the land of nanite demo with the same or better performance. Nor do you need to revamp your entire storage system (direct storage for PC) or use a hardware decompressor.


 
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Look at games at the beginning of the PS4 Xbox one era. The gap widens at the end of the gen with res drops and FPS drops on Xbox compared to PS4 . The same will happen this gen am sure in favour of Xbox as games get more demanding but as I said there could be areas the ps5 could be ahead like texture streaming and stuff. It will be interesting to see if the gaps widen in favour of what each console does better

Expecting the PS5 to remain stagnant is just wrong in my opinion. And suddenly expecting a massive difference at the end of the gen isn't possible. I mean it didn't happen with the PS4 vs the X1 until the mid gen refreshes came out.
 
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Yeah around 15%-25% is what I'm seeing for the most part. Never denied that judt saying there isn't a massive difference between the two. And you really can't expect it given how similar the two are in specs.

Honestly I'm just tired of seeing Mr X theories constantly surfacing time and time again.
I would argue neither system has shown a real advantage over the other to the end user.
 
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Based on the test they did with rachet and clank. Read the article, there was a slower load time but in game no noticeable difference

Digital Foundry found a difference and that was with a faster drive. A slower drive would cause the FPS to drop more.

I don't remember The Verge giving us that kind of data.
 

Riky

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But 46% higher framerate on PS5 in Hitman 3 though. In DOOM Eternal, PS5 can be blurrier in one mode but the other two modes are clearly sharper on PS5 due to the absence of VRS. So we're seeing the expected 15-18% difference, and both on par in other games, not 44%.

No.
In one area of one level the Series X version went into the fifties, but not all the time. So 95% of the game is 60fps, and in the small area it isn't there is no 46% advantage. The 4k Vs 1800p and higher shadow settings is 100% of the game, all of it a huge 44% advantage.
As for Doom Eternal both IGN and DF said the Series X version is sharper and even the developer said he wishes all formats had Tier 2 VRS as it was better than the resolution scaler being used more. I'll take the Devs word for it. Plus the Series X version doesn't go below 1080p.
 

Snake29

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The thing is, that SSD isn't even running at constant 3.9gbs sustained speed . 3.9 is the MAX speed. Its running at maybe 1-3.0 sustained speed. While XS runs at constant 2.4 sustained speed.

Its quite obvious that people who were preaching that PS5's SSD has 12 billion channels and R&C is bringing the SSD to its knees and wont even run on XS and you need a 7GB/s to even match the performance because of all the priority channels were clueless. This isn't any different than the UE5 scenario.

When have the devs ever said anything about the XSX? You clearly think all the hardware is constantly running at peak performance?
 

phil_t98

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Expecting the PS5 to remain stagnant is just wrong in my opinion. And suddenly expecting a massive difference at the end of the gen isn't possible. I mean it didn't happen with the PS4 vs the X1 until the mid gen refreshes came out
Where did I say the ps5 would remain stagnant?
 

phil_t98

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So where's the proof?

Did they give us any data at all?
So digital foundry said there was FPS difference but didn’t provide proof as I watch the article and they didn’t show any games really.

the verge wrote that article but because it doesn’t back up what your saying you just discount it?
They said they did the test
 

kingfey

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The whole UE5 PS5 narrative has already been debunk by a dozen Unreal engine engineers and the creator of Nanite himself.
Not only do you not need Need SSD to run nanite, you don't even need a super fast ssd or even a NVME ssd to ultilize it to the fullest or to run the PS5 Lumen in the land of nanite demo with the same or better performance. Nor do you need to revamp your entire storage system (direct storage for PC) or use a hardware decompressor.


Its not about running it. Its about using its full potential. As of now, its pipe dream. Since The samsung ssd was the same speed as Ps5 ssd.
 
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So digital foundry said there was FPS difference but didn’t provide proof as I watch the article and they didn’t show any games really.

the verge wrote that article but because it doesn’t back up what your saying you just discount it?
They said they did the test

I saw actual numbers in the Digital Foundry video in relation to the I/O stutters in Ratchet. The 970Pro showed less of a drop. And that drive is faster than the PS5s.

FYI it's kind of like the Verge saying both versions of a game look the same without doing any pixel counting.
 
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Riky

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Locking the frame-rate masks the perf differential, obviously. Remove the 60fps cap and you'd consistently see a much higher frame rate on PS5. Anywhere from 15-20fps higher.

There is no proof of these made up figures, none at all.
 

phil_t98

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You said the Gap would get bigger. At some point the PS5 would stop improving and the XSX would just increase the gap.

first thing first, digital foundry didn’t test any slower drives. How would a slower drive effect the FPS? It may effect streaming but they haven’t tested any slower drives.

Second i said the power gap could get wider with graphics but I also said the SSD gap could get wider in favour of ps5 to. Why you only focusing on one thing am saying to console war?
 

ethomaz

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We are comparing a drive thats 3-3.5 gbs to the Sony 5.5gbs drive and we not seeing much difference
Bullshit.

If you want to made stuff fine but it will still be bullshit.
 
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Mr Moose

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Look at games at the beginning of the PS4 Xbox one era. The gap widens at the end of the gen with res drops and FPS drops on Xbox compared to PS4 . The same will happen this gen am sure in favour of Xbox as games get more demanding but as I said there could be areas the ps5 could be ahead like texture streaming and stuff. It will be interesting to see if the gaps widen in favour of what each console does better
It started at 720p on Xbox One and 1080p on PS4, it didn't decrease. It went to 900p Xbox One and 1080p PS4.
 

ethomaz

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read the verge article we’re they said they was no noticeable difference playing rachet and clank. Read the article
Read again.

Made up bullshit… not even the OP article go that low.
 
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first thing first, digital foundry didn’t test any slower drives. How would a slower drive effect the FPS? It may effect streaming but they haven’t tested any slower drives.

Second i said the power gap could get wider with graphics but I also said the SSD gap could get wider in favour of ps5 to. Why you only focusing on one thing am saying to console war?

A slower drive would increase the drops during the I/O stutters. That's how it would affect the FPS.

And honestly I don't think the hardware gap will increase because the hardware itself is stagnant on the two systems. Not trying to console war here but that's the reality. Both systems will remain the same throughout the generation however developers will learn to use them better. There's no flipping switches to boost hardware performance. That's something we say with the PS4 and the X1 until they released the mid gen refreshes. It took new hardware to make the gap grow significantly in Xboxs favor. It's just how the hardware works.
 

Md Ray

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No.
In one area of one level the Series X version went into the fifties, but not all the time. So 95% of the game is 60fps, and in the small area it isn't there is no 46% advantage. The 4k Vs 1800p and higher shadow settings is 100% of the game, all of it a huge 44% advantage.
As for Doom Eternal both IGN and DF said the Series X version is sharper and even the developer said he wishes all formats had Tier 2 VRS as it was better than the resolution scaler being used more. I'll take the Devs word for it. Plus the Series X version doesn't go below 1080p.
60fps locked vs 41fps in one section shows PS5 is always above 60fps. So, if you uncapped the framerate the SX would be consistently running around 20fps lower than PS5. With res and shadow quality equalized, both SX and PS5 would more or less have the same kind of perf characteristic as the other games we've seen so far. So worst case scenario 15-19% more or less, not 44%. Doom eternal doesn't show 44% difference either.
 
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Seph-

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I'm confused why we're arguing this. A year 1 game not taking advantage of full resources is common. Recommended as a term exist for a reason, because it simply covers that at some point below it can experience issues. Which I strongly believe will likely happen but mainly with 1st party games. Good at 1st, issues down the line possible. Also why the hell are we still arguing TFlops and CUs? Come on now, devs laughs this crap off, you guys gotta get off the armchairs and relax, this isn't gonna magically change how close they are. Also this is an SSD thread sooooo yeah doesn't even belong here.
 
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ethomaz

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It’s there read it
Man you need serious reading skills.

First there is no PCI-E 4.0 SSD that runs at all 3-3.5 GB/s… that already makes your claim made up bullshit.

Now about the article it was discussed early… it a lazy attempt with loading the game results not engaging in stress gameplay points.

The fact Insomniac devs told you that in stressed points below 5.5GB/s SSDs they tested will struggle a bit tells you a lot about the OP and DF tests.
 
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It started at 720p on Xbox One and 1080p on PS4, it didn't decrease. It went to 900p Xbox One and 1080p PS4.

All I can think of is maybe phil_t98 phil_t98 is making a reference to the PS5s clocks dropping overtime?

I remember reading that kind of speculation when the variable clocks were first revealed. Although I don't know how likely that is to happen and why it would happen if it does.
 
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ethomaz

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And? Did Insomniac ever said the game would run at peak performance? Because that means all xbox games already running at their peak.
He made fake info and it is trying to put the blame in the article lol
 

RafterXL

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Locking the frame-rate masks the perf differential, obviously. Remove the 60fps cap and you'd consistently see a much higher frame rate on PS5. Anywhere from 15-20fps higher.
Tales from your ass.

Like, explain why a developer would intentionally lower the resolution and shadows on the PS5 version, and keep them higher on the XSX version, if the PS5 would run better at the same settings? The fact is, if the PS5 could run the game exactly the same, or better than the XSX, at the same settings, it would be running at those settings. Anything else is just an invention of your mind.
 
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We are comparing a drive thats 3-3.5 gbs to the Sony 5.5gbs drive and we not seeing much difference

Are you using the Verge as the source?



Just wondering how you are getting those numbers.

Edit: ethomaz ethomaz just tagged you because the image I used comes from The Verge.

I'm guessing he's getting those numbers by assuming the actual read speeds are lower than what the PS5 says. No idea how he's calculating those numbers if he's using The Verge as a source.
 
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ethomaz

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To add a bit more.

There are tests with 5GB/s drivers not delivering the same performance as the internal 5.5GB/s.
 

Md Ray

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There is no proof of these made up figures, none at all.
Here's a 19fps gulf between them in Mendoza level. My bad, I said 15-20fps higher on PS5, if unlocked PS5 could be running at 65-70fps, so there can actually be more than 20fps difference here. Interesting.


Tales from your ass.

Like, explain why a developer would intentionally lower the resolution and shadows on the PS5 version, and keep them higher on the XSX version, if the PS5 would run better at the same settings? The fact is, if the PS5 could run the game exactly the same, or better than the XSX, at the same settings, it would be running at those settings. Anything else is just an invention of your mind.
Read my post again.
 
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RafterXL

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Here's a 19fps gulf between them in Mendoza level. My bad, I said 15-20fps higher on PS5, if unlocked PS5 could be running at 65-70fps, so there can actually be more than 20fps difference here. Interesting.



Read my post again.
This is all an invention.

For all you know the PS5 would run at exactly 60 fps with an unlocked framerate. There's literally ZERO way you, or I, know anything about what would happen. You're making shit up...why? You can't just take the fps difference in this one scene and than add that to 60 and pretend that's what the PS5 version would run at if the frame rate were unlocked...that's idiotic and not how performance works.

The only thing interesting is how ridiculous your assertions are.
 
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staticshock

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Its not about running it. Its about using its full potential. As of now, its pipe dream. Since The samsung ssd was the same speed as Ps5 ssd.
Its already running at its full potential, nanite isn't bottlenecked by ssd speeds. How many times does the creator of nanite have to tell you that before it gets through to you?

You are literally telling to creator of nanite how his tech works. Listen to yourself, thats how deep down the rabbit hole you have gone.

Lumen in the Land of Nanite PS5 demo, runs at a higher resolution on PC and with a higher fps than on PS5. Which part of that don't you understand?
The Land of the Ancient demo which pushed nanite to its limits and is way more unoptimized which is more resource intensive than the previous demo also runs better on PC.
 

RafterXL

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There is no proof of these made up figures, none at all.

That's his entire game. It's the entire reason he's pulling these made up, completely unverifiable figures out of his ass. It's a moron play, but I guess he thinks that since there is no way to "technically" disprove these claims that it makes him correct.
 
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kingfey

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Its already running at its full potential, nanite isn't bottlenecked by ssd speeds. How many times does the creator of nanite have to tell you that before it gets through to you?

You are literally telling to creator of nanite how his tech works. Listen to yourself, thats how deep down the rabbit hole you have gone.

Lumen in the Land of Nanite PS5 demo, runs at a higher resolution on PC and with a higher fps than on PS5. Which part of that don't you understand?
The Land of the Ancient demo which pushed nanite to its limits and is way more unoptimized which is more resource intensive than the previous demo also runs better on PC.
I am not talking about epic UE5 here.
I am just talking about how PS5 ssd needs time to be utilized.

Epic boss already confirmed this tech is improved for next gen consoles. Its why I included if I have no idea what I am talking about for the graphic engines.

My entire discussion is how will the devs utilize the ps5 ssd for loading times, spd, writing, and storage compression. If samsung ssd can match it at this point, is this limit of the ps5 ssd power?
 

Riky

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Tales from your ass.

Like, explain why a developer would intentionally lower the resolution and shadows on the PS5 version, and keep them higher on the XSX version, if the PS5 would run better at the same settings? The fact is, if the PS5 could run the game exactly the same, or better than the XSX, at the same settings, it would be running at those settings. Anything else is just an invention of your mind.

I suppose when the facts don't back you up you have to resort to creating figures.
 
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staticshock

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Are you using the Verge as the source?



Just wondering how you are getting those numbers.

Edit: ethomaz ethomaz just tagged you because the image I used comes from The Verge.

I'm guessing he's getting those numbers by assuming the actual read speeds are lower than what the PS5 says. No idea how he's calculating those numbers if he's using The Verge as a source.

That's the MAX speed. Its not constantly running at the max speed. Infact XPG says "up to 3.9 gb/s".
Do you know what up to is? The actual average speed in real world performance is probably 1.5-3 GB/s tbh.
 
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60fps locked vs 41fps in one section shows PS5 is always above 60fps. So, if you uncapped the framerate the SX would be consistently running around 20fps lower than PS5. With res and shadow quality equalized, both SX and PS5 would more or less have the same kind of perf characteristic as the other games we've seen so far. So worst case scenario 15-19% more or less, not 44%. Doom eternal doesn't show 44% difference either.
It wasn't the Mendoza level, it was the transparency effects in the level. There also hasn't been any transparency issues lately, if anything ps5 has been dropping a smidge more from them. Leaves me the conclusion of bug/tools/OS that has been fixed now.
 
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That's the MAX speed. Its not constantly running at the max speed. Infact XPG says "up to 3.9 gb/s".
Do you know what up to is? The actual average speed in real world performance is probably 1.5-3 GB/s tbh.

Do you know where he pulled the average speed from?

Seems like you don't know.

My numbers are in the article if you haven't seen them.
 
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