• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
15MLN? Out of what, hundreds of millions, billions PCs? Which still, with so many people having RT-capable GPUs it makes me wonder where the hell are the appropriate software sales? Control, Metro etc. didn't even hit 1MLN copies on PC (why did they even got those cards for?? xD), so hardware sales are one thing, but until people actually start buying games that support the new fancy tech the devs won't widely support it.
Lol here goes someone who doesn't understand technology or how you need a pioneer, for everyone to follow. Why didn't AMD implement raytracing from 2 years ago? Why can't AMD compete with Nvidia on high end or enthusiast gpu's?

But no, let's just discredit Nvidia for being the dominant company and implementing new technology before anyone else does. Let's just hate on progression like this guy. Who needs next gen consoles, when we already have Dreamcast's and n64's. Smh
 
Jun 16, 2018
4,303
3,950
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
Wait, do you honestly think consoles will out perform an RTX 2080 TI?! lmfao you can't be serious right now?! You realize even 2xxx series will more than likely handle raytracing better than AMD's implementation? Which includes AMD console hardware.
If a ps5 game used 12GB of vram, the data couldn't fit in rtx2080ti memory.

As for outperforming, sure it can handle ray tracing better but not better enough. The consoles are likely to use it mostly for reflection, perhaps shadows, and going the next step, full path tracing, is just not viable on an rtx 2080ti.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alabtrosMyster

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
If a ps5 game used 12GB of vram, the data couldn't fit in rtx2080ti memory.

As for outperforming, sure it can handle ray tracing better but not better enough. The consoles are likely to use it mostly for reflection, perhaps shadows, and going the next step, full path tracing, is just not viable on an rtx 2080ti.
If a ps5 game used 12gb of ram, it would be at a bottleneck. What free ram would you have to run instructions from the cpu? Physics, etc?

And are you implying consoles will have full path tracing?
 
Jan 29, 2019
7,171
8,263
520
So true.

Reality is consoles are first priority for developers then PC. Was alot different 20 years ago.
20 years ago PC gaming was a really different thing than console gaming. The libraries had very little overlap, even among consoles platforms, point and click, RTS, sim games, etc. Were very deeply rooted in) PC gaming culture.

Now everything is a wash, except for a few notable titles (anno 1886, the replacement for sim city, and a lot of small time indie titles that could pass for old console games).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alphagear
Jun 16, 2018
4,303
3,950
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
If a ps5 game used 12gb of ram, it would be at a bottleneck. What free ram would you have to run instructions from the cpu? Physics, etc?

And are you implying consoles will have full path tracing?
no just reflections shadows, etc. What I'm saying is the next step beyond that full path tracing isn't possible on consoles but neither is it possible on pcs.

As for ps5 it has 16GB of ram, so assuming OS reserves 1-2GB, there is still 2-3GB left for gameplay code.

Keep in mind due to the fast SSD the ps5 can easily swap data in and out of the ram, making it effectively as if it had 20-24+GB of ram.
 
Last edited:

FireFly

Member
Aug 5, 2007
1,915
1,403
1,440
getting double console framerates near console generation end.
Well, to be fair the the Radeon R9 290X was already more than double as fast when it launched in October 2013. The difference is that was a $549 card that fell to $399 in a year. Where as the 3080 Ti will probably be something rediculous like $1200. Also worth noting that the ~$250 price range was stagnant for 3+ years this generation, until the arrival of the 1660 Ti, which still only offered around 50% more performance than the 970.

So, it depends on several factors. Also, how effectively game engines will be able to take advantage of the extra cores in the PC space, since no current 8 core PC CPU will be able to double performance of the XSX/PS5 CPU. And whether Microsoft's DirectStorage API on the PC will be able to remove the IO/CPU bottleneck seen on current titles when using SSDs.
 

JimboJones

Member
Apr 16, 2009
4,383
2,995
1,320
N.Ireland
no just reflections shadows, etc. What I'm saying is the next step beyond that full path tracing isn't possible on consoles but neither is it possible on pcs.

As for ps5 it has 16GB of ram, so assuming OS reserves 1-2GB, there is still 2-3GB left for gameplay code.

Keep in mind due to the fast SSD the ps5 can easily swap data in and out of the ram, making it effectively as if it had 20-24+GB of ram.
I dunno if you can just add SSD memory like that, surly it's like saying because I have 4GB vram and 16GB DDR4 ram I have like 10GBs of Vram. It will help but as fast as the SSD is it's super slow compared to actual ram speeds.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
:messenger_fire:

So many console warriors throw that line "well how many pc gamers have a *insert gpu here* ? The average pc player has a better gpu than current consoles. Further more, how many people have a ps5 or series X right now, at this very moment?! You would sweat everyone in this forum, as they keep mentioning how SSD are suddenly going to change the world, cure cancer, ends poverty, and is the root cause of world peace. Or how "next gen" games look so spectacular in 4k@120fps. I can only laugh at these time travelers.
PC games won't be made with PS5's SSD speed in mind for awhile if not ever.
The PCI E 4.0 market is way to small.

Going by the PS4 family of consoles alone.... it's more capable they the average gaming PC.
If we combine the Pro and X vs better GPU's on the PC the console has a higher number of users here as well.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

vaibhavpisal

Member
Jun 10, 2019
1,987
3,232
455
I dunno if you can just add SSD memory like that, surly it's like saying because I have 4GB vram and 16GB DDR4 ram I have like 10GBs of Vram. It will help but as fast as the SSD is it's super slow compared to actual ram speeds.

Yup SSD is not a ram replacement. Even Cerny didn't say that.

It operates on player's timeframe. Say you need 5-6 gb data within next 1-2 second, while player is turning around, it can do that.

But if you need that much data for next frame ie within 1/30 second, it won't do that. Ram can.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: DoctaThompson

JimboJones

Member
Apr 16, 2009
4,383
2,995
1,320
N.Ireland
PC games won't be made with PS5's SSD speed in mind for awhile if not ever.
The PCI E 4.0 market is way to small.

Going by the PS4 family of consoles alone.... it's more capable they the average gaming PC.
If we combine the Pro and X vs better GPU's on the PC the console has a higher number of users here as well.


That's it guys pack it up, consoles have fast Ssd's pc are once again doomed.
 
Last edited:

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
That's it guys pack it up, consoles have fast Ssd's pc are once again doomed.
Lol! I'm on board! Count me in!

PC games won't be made with PS5's SSD speed in mind for awhile if not ever.
The PCI E 4.0 market is way to small.

Going by the PS4 family of consoles alone.... it's more capable they the average gaming PC.
If we combine the Pro and X vs better GPU's on the PC the console has a higher number of users here as well.

Because of this Secret Sauce Device, all developers are abandoning their previous work. They are working under Sony exclusively now. Pc's and Xbox series X are now obsolete. Cerny decided to change up the ps5 last minute. He removed the cpu, and in place, there is a SSD as the brain of the console. Ram had to go as well, and is replaced by a mini ssd. The motherboard was stripped of all components, and replaced with ssd controllers. The GPU was inferior to series X, and especially pc's, so Cerny did the unthinkable. He replaced the gpu completely, with an array of, you guessed it, SSD's, which can retrieve data from one of its several ssd's. Fucking SSDception made Sony rename it's console from Ps5, to PSSD5. Ssd is our new Lord and savior.
 
Last edited:

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
Lol! I'm on board! Count me in!



Because of this Secret Sauce Device, all developers are abandoning their previous work. They are working under Sony exclusively now. Pc's and Xbox series X are now obsolete. Cerny decided to change up the ps5 last minute. He removed the cpu, and in place, there is a SSD as the brain of the console. Ram had to go as well, and is replaced by a mini ssd. The motherboard was stripped of all components, and replaced with ssd controllers. The GPU was inferior to series X, and especially pc's, so Cerny did the unthinkable. He replaced the gpu completely, with an array of, you guessed it, SSD's, which can retrieve data from one of its several ssd's. Fucking SSDception made Sony rename it's console from Ps5, to PSSD5. Ssd is our new Lord and savior.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

RaySoft

Member
May 31, 2013
1,155
1,773
760
Oslo, Norway
Even the XSX will have games utilizing it's SSD solution better than any PC games will for a while. Even though hardware will be available down the line that will match or exceed the consoles, the games won't be targeting (developed with the hardware in mind) for those specs for a long time since only 0,1% of all PC owners in the world would have the req. hardware, so what you're left with is just a faster storage medium
More resolution, faster fps and faster loading times. That's really just the "biproduct" of what that hardware should deliver and a far cry from what it could if targeted.

More likely scenario is that devs will have a hard time porting consolegames to PC for a while, at least the games that heavily utilizes the SSD's, and in that way, I think OP's claim of consoles begin "outclassed" is just wishfull thinking at best.
 
Last edited:

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
Even the XSX will have games utilizing it's SSD solution better than any PC games will for a while. Even though hardware will be available down the line that will match or exceed the consoles, the games won't be targeting (developed with the hardware in mind) for those specs for a long time since only 0,1% of all PC owners in the world would have the req. hardware, so what you're left with is just a faster storage medium. SO more resolution, faster fps and faster loading times. That's actually just the "biproduct" of what it should be.

More likely is the scenario that devs will have a hard time porting consolegames to PC for a while, at least the games that heavily utilizes the SSD's, and in that way, I think OP's claim of consoles begin "outclassed" is just wishfull thinking at best.
Quick question... Did you for any second while writing that post, come to the realization that ALL games are developed on a PC? All assets, textures, effects, rendered scenes, audio, etc? Then the game gets downgraded and ported to consoles. If games are made on a PC, which is obviously faster and more powerful than the consoles the game gets ported, does this mean consoles are now going to develop games? As in no need for a pc anymore? Can I go out and buy a ps5 or Xbox series X, and run ZBrush or other 3D/modeling programs? Can I sell my pc, and run AutoCAD on consoles now? If not, then you really need to rethink your post, and realize consoles don't really have any advantage besides pricing.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

RaySoft

Member
May 31, 2013
1,155
1,773
760
Oslo, Norway
Quick question... Did you for any second while writing that post, come to the realization that ALL games are developed on a PC? All assets, textures, effects, rendered scenes, audio, etc? Then the game gets downgraded and ported to consoles. If games are made on a PC, which is obviously faster and more powerful than the consoles the game gets ported, does this mean consoles are now going to develop games? As in no need for a pc anymore? Can I go out and buy a ps5 or Xbox series X, and run ZBrush or other 3D/modeling programs? Can I sell my pc, and run AutoCAD on consoles now? If not, then you really need to rethink your post, and realize consoles don't really have any advantage besides pricing.
I don't think you're looking at it the right way. PC's are used to develop games because they have the input devices and software tools necessary to make all the code and assets, not because it's stronger than the hardware you're developing for necessarily.
I could write code on my PC for a completely different system that would run that code 1000 times faster than the PC i wrote the code on.
It's not like they make the whole playable game on the PC and then just fork it over to the console or whatever.
 
Last edited:

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
Quick question... Did you for any second while writing that post, come to the realization that ALL games are developed on a PC? All assets, textures, effects, rendered scenes, audio, etc? Then the game gets downgraded and ported to consoles. If games are made on a PC, which is obviously faster and more powerful than the consoles the game gets ported, does this mean consoles are now going to develop games? As in no need for a pc anymore? Can I go out and buy a ps5 or Xbox series X, and run ZBrush or other 3D/modeling programs? Can I sell my pc, and run AutoCAD on consoles now? If not, then you really need to rethink your post, and realize consoles don't really have any advantage besides pricing.
PC versions of games have to be made to fit a wiiiiiiiide array of configurations with most NOT owning a SSD and a super small amount being equipped with a PCI E 4.0 mobo.

IF(I don't see it happening) 3rd parties port to the PC it will be to a very small PCI E 4.0 market or it would have to be a gimped version that can also run on older mechanical drives.

Doomed
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
16,858
29,113
1,285
The bolded is 100% true. VFXVeteran VFXVeteran actually could be one of the best posters on GAF if he wasn't so biased for PC and biased against consoles. He's smart, but his bias leads him to say some really dumb stuff. It clouds his judgement and that's disappointing.

And the 2nd bold is again 100% on point. It's weird that he feels the need to tell people what "WILL" happen with next-gen consoles. If we would have let him tell it 8 years ago, he would have said something like God of War wouldn't have been possible (graphics wise).

Nah, he comes out with too many silly statements to be taken seriously and gets schooled a lot when he tries talking tech.

Remember when he said there’s a chance Horizon 1 on PC could look better than Horizon 2 on PS5?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
I don't think you're looking at it the right way. PC's are used to develop games because they have the input devices and software tools necessary to make all the code and assets, not because it's stronger than the hardware you're developing for necessarily.
I could write code on my PC for a completely different system that would run that code 1000 times faster than the PC i wrote the code on.
It's not like they make the whole playable game on the PC and then just fork it over to the console or whatever.
Since consoles and pc are so similar, now more than ever, it's easy to develop and port games to consoles. You believe that a pc creates all of these assets, textures, levels, etc, but can't run a next gen game? Or that consoles have better hardware than the fastest pc from 2 years ago?

Wouldn't it just make more sense to develop games exclusively on a console? It would make more sense than developing on pc, and having to transfer over 100gb of data to a ps5, just to test things out, and have to constantly recompile the code. Imagine you hit a bug, then have to constantly switch between pc and console, and wait a while between, since pc has the slowest SSD's in existence. They don't have that Secret Storage Drive, like ps5 and Xsx, which could be why games may take longer to develop for, right?
 
  • LOL
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
Since consoles and pc are so similar, now more than ever, it's easy to develop and port games to consoles. You believe that a pc creates all of these assets, textures, levels, etc, but can't run a next gen game? Or that consoles have better hardware than the fastest pc from 2 years ago?

Wouldn't it just make more sense to develop games exclusively on a console? It would make more sense than developing on pc, and having to transfer over 100gb of data to a ps5, just to test things out, and have to constantly recompile the code. Imagine you hit a bug, then have to constantly switch between pc and console, and wait a while between, since pc has the slowest SSD's in existence. They don't have that Secret Storage Drive, like ps5 and Xsx, which could be why games may take longer to develop for, right?
So clueless are you saying they use consumer PC's to make console games? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
PC versions of games have to be made to fit a wiiiiiiiide array of configurations with most NOT owning a SSD and a super small amount being equipped with a PCI E 4.0 mobo.

IF(I don't see it happening) 3rd parties port to the PC it will be to a very small PCI E 4.0 market or it would have to be a gimped version that can also run on older mechanical drives.

Doomed
What if I told you a secret? You don't need a super fast ssd to still have better performance than next gen consoles. What if I told you my ram purchased several years ago, is faster than ps5 ssd? Why do you think a console ssd, which is slower than ssd's that were in pc's from 2019, will suddenly make pc obsolete? Ps5 doesn't even have the fastest ssd, and it's not even on the market yet, to make baseless claims like this.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE
Jun 16, 2018
4,303
3,950
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
According to VFXVeteran VFXVeteran PS5 exclusives are coming to PC and PS5 Pro is launching this year.
To be fair, he said it might launch simultaneously or later, iirc.

edit:
What if I told you a secret? You don't need a super fast ssd to still have better performance than next gen consoles. What if I told you my ram purchased several years ago, is faster than ps5 ssd? Why do you think a console ssd, which is slower than ssd's that were in pc's from 2019, will suddenly make pc obsolete? Ps5 doesn't even have the fastest ssd, and it's not even on the market yet, to make baseless claims like this.
People tried it, the ramdisk, installing directly to ram. It wasn't much faster than a sata ssd, just a bit faster than an hdd. Probably the bottlenecks Cerny talked about keep it from being much faster.

You'd need a custom setting designed specifically to run the entire game from ram, and with games being 100+GB, you'd probably need that amount of ram. And likely like 20+Minutes of loading time, if on an hdd, and like 5+ minute loading on an ssd. Unless custom code was made to expedite loading.
 
Last edited:

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
So clueless are you saying they use consumer PC's to make console games? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
Definite consumer PC. Microsoft demoed Gears of war 5 using a threadripper (Which isn't really a consumer cpu. You wouldn't use that for gaming). And hypothetically speaking, what would it matter if it is a consumer pc or enterprise pc? Wouldn't the fact remain that pc's have more powerful hardware than consoles? It's not like developers have access to some secret sauce hardware, that consumers have no access too. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue here.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

FireFly

Member
Aug 5, 2007
1,915
1,403
1,440
PC versions of games have to be made to fit a wiiiiiiiide array of configurations with most NOT owning a SSD and a super small amount being equipped with a PCI E 4.0 mobo.

IF(I don't see it happening) 3rd parties port to the PC it will be to a very small PCI E 4.0 market or it would have to be a gimped version that can also run on older mechanical drives.

Doomed
On Xbox side at least, games will initially be cross platform, so they will already have to run on a mechanical hard drive.
 
Jun 16, 2018
4,303
3,950
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
It's not like developers have access to some secret sauce hardware, that consumers have no access too. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue here.
There are ps5 dev kits. As for the pcs they might have custom pcie4.0 ssds with custom i/o to mimic ps5's i/o, we don't know if they do, but seems reasonable.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

RaySoft

Member
May 31, 2013
1,155
1,773
760
Oslo, Norway
Since consoles and pc are so similar, now more than ever, it's easy to develop and port games to consoles. You believe that a pc creates all of these assets, textures, levels, etc, but can't run a next gen game? Or that consoles have better hardware than the fastest pc from 2 years ago?

Wouldn't it just make more sense to develop games exclusively on a console? It would make more sense than developing on pc, and having to transfer over 100gb of data to a ps5, just to test things out, and have to constantly recompile the code. Imagine you hit a bug, then have to constantly switch between pc and console, and wait a while between, since pc has the slowest SSD's in existence. They don't have that Secret Storage Drive, like ps5 and Xsx, which could be why games may take longer to develop for, right?
First of it's people that create all those assets, not the PC.
Not sure how I could explain it to you, but just know that there are "unlimited" ways to get from A to B. How you do it is what sets some developers apart from others.
I'm not saying a PC can't run a next-gen console game. Heck, we don't even know how devs will utilize the crazy SSD bandwith they've got now even. What I DO know is that it would lead to new and innovative ways of getting from that "A" to "B" I mention earlier. If for instance the speed of the PS5's SSD is required to make it work, the PC would have ha hard time delivering that same experience at least for a long, long time.

When development has come to a point where they have playable code, a version of their game is always present on the devkit. It's only when they need to compile everything to a new build it takes some time. They don't need to recompile everything just to test out one small part. Depends on dependencies etc.
 
Last edited:

RaySoft

Member
May 31, 2013
1,155
1,773
760
Oslo, Norway
There are ps5 dev kits. As for the pcs they might have custom pcie4.0 ssds with custom i/o to mimic ps5's i/o, we don't know if they do, but seems reasonable.
No they don't. You code it on the PC, but run the code on the devkit for testing. Cerny already said that devs don't even have to think about scecial code to get the SSD speeds... It's just a regular API call.
 

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
To be fair, he said it might launch simultaneously or later, iirc.

edit:

People tried it, the ramdisk, installing directly to ram. It wasn't much faster than a sata ssd, just a bit faster than an hdd. Probably the bottlenecks Cerny talked about keep it from being much faster.

You'd need a custom setting designed specifically to run the entire game from ram, and with games being 100+GB, you'd probably need that amount of ram. And likely like 20+Minutes of loading time, if on an hdd, and like 5+ minute loading on an ssd. Unless custom code was made to expedite loading.
Not sure where you got installing a game to my ram? I simply said my ram is muuuuch faster than ps5 ssd. The average pc gamer has 16gb of ram or more. Which again, is faster than ssd's in console. I can stream assets from ram to gpu, with no hiccups. If i install the same game on a hdd and ssd, I won't suddenly get a huge boost in fps, or any at all for that matter. Pc and consoles are built and designed differently. Consoles only have vram. Pc has 16gb of ram or more, plus the vram from gpu. This is why pc gamers have nothing to worry about, as shortcuts aren't really on pc. It's merely a way to save money building consoles. If that was the way to go, pc's wouldn't have system ram anymore, and would rely on only vram. Consoles have been doing this for well over 15 years, and pc's haven't changed, because it's an inefficient design. Pc's aren't made solely to game on. They are multi faceted for many different uses. Hence no shortcuts taken in pc architecture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VFXVeteran

Jigsaah

Member
Jan 31, 2018
6,772
7,102
740
My pc outclassed next gen consoles almost 2 years ago. Many people who are upgrading their pc this year, can simply buy a newer gpu and be good for the whole generation, for about the price of a next gen console or even cheaper. PC never lost the lead to begin with. And it only gets better as all Xbox games are coming to pc, and Sony seems to be doing the same thing as well. Everyone is a winner this generation, regardless of what hardware you are playing on.
I never said they lost the lead. I said they would have gain the lead again. Put in better words, it the first generation to match what's available on PC hardware for a fraction of the cost. I have a PC too. I've done the comparisons and at least for me, it would take more than just a GPU upgrade to match what the Series X is offering this coming gen. I would need to upgrade my CPU as well as my RAM. A 2080 super right now goes for $699. We'll see what it is in November but the point is that consoles and pc will be much much closer in performance than ever at the start of next gen. That's just facts.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
48,306
15,669
2,000
Remember when he said there’s a chance Horizon 1 on PC could look better than Horizon 2 on PS5?

I have zero clue why VFX ever thought that. It makes zero sense. It's statements like that, that make me wonder why he does it even have such an anti-console agenda to begin with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

RaySoft

Member
May 31, 2013
1,155
1,773
760
Oslo, Norway
Not sure where you got installing a game to my ram? I simply said my ram is muuuuch faster than ps5 ssd. The average pc gamer has 16gb of ram or more. Which again, is faster than ssd's in console. I can stream assets from ram to gpu, with no hiccups. If i install the same game on a hdd and ssd, I won't suddenly get a huge boost in fps, or any at all for that matter. Pc and consoles are built and designed differently. Consoles only have vram. Pc has 16gb of ram or more, plus the vram from gpu. This is why pc gamers have nothing to worry about, as shortcuts aren't really on pc. It's merely a way to save money building consoles. If that was the way to go, pc's wouldn't have system ram anymore, and would rely on only vram. Consoles have been doing this for well over 15 years, and pc's haven't changed, because it's an inefficient design. Pc's aren't made solely to game on. They are multi faceted for many different uses. Hence no shortcuts taken in pc architecture.
PC hasn't changed because it cant. It's a legacy "monster" for good and for bad.
The PC GPU's GDDR5 memory is it's own little swimming pool. The CPU would'nt dare dipping it's feet in there because of bandwith issues and vice versa.
The consoles are designed for efficency with no legacy stuff to hold it back. That's why it's more bang for the buck when it comes to playing games.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
Not in value and performance per $
You can buy a whole gaming setup with money to spare for games with the money you would spend in ONE graphics card.
Or, you can buy a pc, never have to spend money for online gaming each year, games are substantially cheaper, and you won't need to buy a mid cycle console refresh like the pro or 1X, and have money left over for games. If you are content with not upgrading mid cycle, then you got a point. With practically all games coming to pc, it's a win win.

PC hasn't changed because it cant. It's a legacy "monster" for good and for bad.
The PC GPU's GDDR5 memory is it's own little swimming pool. The CPU would'nt dare dipping it's feet in there because of bandwith issues and vice versa.
The consoles are designed for efficency with no legacy stuff to hold it back. That's why it's more bang for the buck when it comes to playing games.
Why would I want to run my browser in my gpu memory? Or mindlessly utilizing the gpu, when it's not needed? I much prefer how pc is designed, as if it took shortcuts to build, it would be a lesser experience. Can you imagine how gaming would be when you run out of vram because you are streaming, listening to music, have a million tabs open in the background, and worst of all, be limited to a single pool of ram? That sounds terrible, and could be why consoles can only play games and Netflix. Not really anything else.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
Definite consumer PC. Microsoft demoed Gears of war 5 using a threadripper (Which isn't really a consumer cpu. You wouldn't use that for gaming). And hypothetically speaking, what would it matter if it is a consumer pc or enterprise pc? Wouldn't the fact remain that pc's have more powerful hardware than consoles? It's not like developers have access to some secret sauce hardware, that consumers have no access too. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue here.
The PC you game on is a consumer PC. This is not what they make games on.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
PC hasn't changed because it cant. It's a legacy "monster" for good and for bad.
The PC GPU's GDDR5 memory is it's own little swimming pool. The CPU would'nt dare dipping it's feet in there because of bandwith issues and vice versa.
The consoles are designed for efficency with no legacy stuff to hold it back. That's why it's more bang for the buck when it comes to playing games.
Consoles are made with gaming in mind the PC is not.

The start of every new gen consoles have the edge in value.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
The PC you game on is a consumer PC. This is not what they make games on.
So if I change out my cpu for a workstation processor, and get an RTX Quadro, then it WOULDN'T be a consumer pc, right? Although I'm a consumer and have access to the parts, the same way you and everyone else with a wallet, have access to these parts. I personally would never game on a Quadro or workstation cpu, as I'll more than likely lose performance while gaming.

Consoles are made with gaming in mind the PC is not.

The start of every new gen consoles have the edge in value.
Value, yes. Performance, no.
 
Jun 16, 2018
4,303
3,950
550
prettycoolgraphics.blogspot.com
No they don't. You code it on the PC, but run the code on the devkit for testing. Cerny already said that devs don't even have to think about scecial code to get the SSD speeds... It's just a regular API call.
I'm not saying dev.s will have to do anything special to benefit. What I'm saying is that it is conceivable that in order to mimic the whole benefits of ps5 ssd to expedite dev. similar might exist in some manner on the dev. pcs.
Consoles have been doing this for well over 15 years, and pc's haven't changed, because it's an inefficient design.
Many including AMD talking about APUs have talked about the benefits of unified memory architecture. That's one of the reasons the 360 was easier to develop than ps3, it's unified memory architecture.
I have zero clue why VFX ever thought that. It makes zero sense. It's statements like that, that make me wonder why he does it even have such an anti-console agenda to begin with.
That and saying that games on next gen consoles will seemingly look no better than current games, has been quite puzzling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
To be fair, he said it might launch simultaneously or later, iirc.

edit:

People tried it, the ramdisk, installing directly to ram. It wasn't much faster than a sata ssd, just a bit faster than an hdd. Probably the bottlenecks Cerny talked about keep it from being much faster.

You'd need a custom setting designed specifically to run the entire game from ram, and with games being 100+GB, you'd probably need that amount of ram. And likely like 20+Minutes of loading time, if on an hdd, and like 5+ minute loading on an ssd. Unless custom code was made to expedite loading.
I read him saying alongside.
Anyone can guess this, he is no insider just a PC fanboy troll who gets banned for his shenanigans.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
So if I change out my cpu for a workstation processor, and get an RTX Quadro, then it WOULDN'T be a consumer pc, right? Although I'm a consumer and have access to the parts, the same way you and everyone else with a wallet, have access to these parts. I personally would never game on a Quadro or workstation cpu, as I'll more than likely lose performance while gaming.


Value, yes. Performance, no.
That would make your PC non consumer so again you are wrong.
Besides it likely wouldn't be enough to make games on these consoles.

Performance as in fps yes but not in visuals.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
PC hasn't changed because it cant. It's a legacy "monster" for good and for bad.
The PC GPU's GDDR5 memory is it's own little swimming pool. The CPU would'nt dare dipping it's feet in there because of bandwith issues and vice versa.
The consoles are designed for efficency with no legacy stuff to hold it back. That's why it's more bang for the buck when it comes to playing games.
And this is why the PC has bottlenecks
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DoctaThompson

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
Many including AMD talking about APUs have talked about the benefits of unified memory architecture. That's one of the reasons the 360 was easier to develop than ps3, it's unified memory architecture.
Unified memory works better for a console, not a pc. Can you imagine the cost of going from 32ggb of ddr4 and 11gb of gddr6, to 43gb of gddr6? I'll take a hard pass on that, and I'll wait for ddr5 ram. And 360 and ps3 were demolished by pc's around the same time or earlier than it's release. Same with ps4/xb1, and will happen again this year.

That would make your PC non consumer so again you are wrong.
Besides it likely wouldn't be enough to make games on these consoles.

Performance as in fps yes but not in visuals.
Why wouldn't that be enough to make console games? It's literally exactly what next gen games are being created with lol. Is there some hardware out there that you know about, that no one else knows? Should I call for a mod to get you vetted status? Please spill the beans!
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Jan 27, 2020
4,995
6,463
680
In the mix
Unified memory works better for a console, not a pc. Can you imagine the cost of going from 32ggb of ddr4 and 11gb of gddr6, to 43gb of gddr6? I'll take a hard pass on that, and I'll wait for ddr5 ram. And 360 and ps3 were demolished by pc's around the same time or earlier than it's release. Same with ps4/xb1, and will happen again this year.


Why wouldn't that be enough to make console games? It's literally exactly what next gen games are being created with lol. Is there some hardware out there that you know about, that no one else knows? Should I call for a mod to get you vetted status? Please spill the beans!
Kameo on 360 bested any platformer on PC at least for a couple years as did Gears.

Uncharted 2 and GOW 3 look better than most PC games of that whole generation with Crysis and it's sequel being the exception.

Link showing what the upcoming consoles are being programmed on?
 

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
Kameo on 360 bested any platformer on PC at least for a couple years as did Gears.

Uncharted 2 and GOW 3 look better than most PC games of that whole generation with Crysis and it's sequel being the exception.

Link showing what the upcoming consoles are being programmed on?
Proof? I'm only seeing comparisons which the pc version looks substantially better?

And it's common knowledge that Quadro gpu's are for creators, whether it be cgi, video editing, etc. I doubt people are creating games on the 2080 TI. It's possible, but I don't think you'll find any studio exclusively using those.
 

JimboJones

Member
Apr 16, 2009
4,383
2,995
1,320
N.Ireland
Uncharted 2 and GOW 3 look better than most PC games of that whole generation with Crysis and it's sequel being the exception.
You might like there art style but technologically they weren't doing anything out of the ordinary.
The where both running at 720p and...well I'll let the video speak for its self it was not a smooth frame rate
That's not a slight against the game, it looks good for the hardware it's on but limitations are there.
 
Last edited:

DoctaThompson

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
1,643
2,352
570
Big Caulk County
You might like there art style but technologically they weren't doing anything out of the ordinary.
The where both running at 720p and...well I'll let the video speak for its self it was not a smooth frame rate
Holy shit! Literally dropping 20fps?! But this supposedly looked and ran better than games on pc. I need to get my vision checked after reading that comment, then seeing this video.