Support NeoGAF

[Raven117]

policies and personal beliefs aside for a minute; how much of a weak bitch u gotta be to find wearing a mask so burdensome? What do you do when faced with less trivial obstacles in your life?

You know damn well its not about this. It hasn't been for many months.

 

[CAB_Life]

Right. So now what? You want the CDC to come in and fight the obesity epidemic and start telling people to change their lifestyle? Americans will love that.

Do I think the CDC should continuously mention that by their own data obesity is a key driver in the mortality rates related to Covid and dozens if not hundreds of other diseases? Shouldn't I or any reasonable person expect that? Isn't educating the public on risks and benefits part of their job? Why would I give two shits if the body positive movement or people who aren't living in reality are offended by facts?

 

[AJUMP23]

I'm sorry that you find doing those things with a mask on terribly difficult. I'll wear a mask and do some muscle ups for you on camera if you want

Wearing a mask and doing stuff doesn't make you tough, not wearing a mask doing stuff doesn't make you tough either.

 

[poppabk]

You know damn well its not about this. It hasn't been for many months.

I honestly have no idea what it has been about, never made sense. My state has 'no mask' laws on the books, people didn't seem to lose their minds over that.

 

[12Goblins]

Do I think the CDC should continuously mention that by their own data obesity is a key driver in the mortality rates related to Covid and dozens if not hundreds of other diseases? Shouldn't I or any reasonable person expect that? Isn't educating the public on risks and benefits part of their job? Why would I give two shits if the body positive movement or people who aren't living in reality are offended by facts?

Not sure I follow. Cdc has been saying from the beginning if you are fat and old you have a serious chance of dying from this thing. Has nothing to do with the body positive movement which is like 3,000 retards on Twitter.

The CDC has been doing their job. But Americans must meet them half way for this to work; lose weight, eat better, avoid congregating during a pandemic, etc. Americans don't want a more involved role for the CDC into their life, so here we are.

 

[Raven117]

I honestly have no idea what it has been about, never made sense. My state has 'no mask' laws on the books, people didn't seem to lose their minds over that.

In the beginning, there were alot of questions about the disease, science wasn't super clear on it, so masks were recommended to help people cope with it all (maybe a MARGINAL increase in protection, but that could just be because of modified behavior). Understandable. As things drew on (and Trump making it super political), it became a political statement and about control. Anybody who says "what is the big deal about wearing a mask" is arguing in bad faith at this point.

 

[Karmic Raze]

I’m not vaccinated, so I’ll keep wearing my mask. Maybe in a few months this will really all be over with.

 

[HellforLeather]

I’m not vaccinated, so I’ll keep wearing my mask. Maybe in a few months this will really all be over with.

I know this is still a point of contention, but honestly I think people need to step back here. If people still want to wear the mask, then thats their business. My only concern is the continued enforcement of mask rules in the face of dwindling infection rates and fatality rates dropping like a stone. It's time (at least in the US) to go back to normal and I think its understandable that will take more time for some people to readjust than others.

 

[Susurrus]

I'm vaccinated. Will still wear my mask when I'm with my kids since they're not able to be yet, and it is a lot easier to get them to wear masks when their parents are doing it, too. I work in an office environment and mask requirements for vaccinated people have been dropped for vaccinated people (about 3/4 of us are vaccinated). I'll also still wear when a business or other organization requests it because I'm not a dick and believe in business being able to set their own policies, but then again if I go to one, likely I'm with my kids anyway.

 

[SF Kosmo]

You know damn well its not about this. It hasn't been for many months.

I wouldn't say "many months" we only really started to reach that critical turning point nationwide about six weeks ago at which point a lot of places, like Michigan and most of the northeast were having spikes.

Some other places, like California, saw things fall more steadily after the January surge, but the fact is nowhere really reached that critical level of vaccination where we're unlikely to see a spike again until pretty recently, they were just seeing the same kinds of valleys we've always seen after big surges.

So yes, now that many states have 70+% of adults vaccinated, the risk of a big spike from dropping covid restrictions seems unlikely. But you're probably overstating the extent to which this is overdue, it's really only been the case for a few weeks.

 

[belmarduk]

I’m not vaccinated, so I’ll keep wearing my mask. Maybe in a few months this will really all be over with.

You COULD just get vaccinated, though.

 

[bigsnack]

Not sure I follow. Cdc has been saying from the beginning if you are fat and old you have a serious chance of dying from this thing. Has nothing to do with the body positive movement which is like 3,000 retards on Twitter.

The CDC has been doing their job. But Americans must meet them half way for this to work; lose weight, eat better, avoid congregating during a pandemic, etc. Americans don't want a more involved role for the CDC into their life, so here we are.

I think the issue for me is that getting outside, eating right, losing weight, etc. was NEVER part of the "Be Healthy, Be Safe" discussion during the pandemic. Yes it became widely known over time, as the risk factors were laid out and the data really started pouring in, but popular media never had the balls to recommend that people put their general physical health as a priority. To me, they absolutely should have said "Here's what you can do while you are socially distancing: Get your Vitamin D up, and lose as much weight as you possibly can." Americans gained weight during lockdown, which actually increased their risk in the event that they were to get infected.

 

[poppabk]

In the beginning, there were alot of questions about the disease, science wasn't super clear on it, so masks were recommended to help people cope with it all (maybe a MARGINAL increase in protection, but that could just be because of modified behavior). Understandable. As things drew on (and Trump making it super political), it became a political statement and about control. Anybody who says "what is the big deal about wearing a mask" is arguing in bad faith at this point.

I understand that it was supposed to be symbolic of something it just always seemed incoherent.
Wearing a mask has generally been considered a symbol of rebelling against government control. Governments don't normally want you wearing masks. Plus universal mask wearing was the only way we were going to be able to operate businesses etc at even a diminished level.
I just don't understand what political statement was being made.

 

[CAB_Life]

I think the issue for me is that getting outside, eating right, losing weight, etc. was NEVER part of the "Be Healthy, Be Safe" discussion during the pandemic. Yes it became widely known over time, as the risk factors were laid out and the data really started pouring in, but popular media never had the balls to recommend that people put their general physical health as a priority. To me, they absolutely should have said "Here's what you can do while you are socially distancing: Get your Vitamin D up, and lose as much weight as you possibly can." Americans gained weight during lockdown, which actually increased their risk in the event that they were to get infected.

Exactly this. It wasn't part of the discourse whatsoever as there were more political or convenient talking points. When you know that the number one precursor for serious death or complications from Covid come is obesity, and you're not shouting it from the rooftops and running campaigns to get American in shape--how's that for a "unity" movement we never saw?--then you're just not doing your job. The CDC, the government, whoever. We got one report in May that was talked about for all of one day's cycle and then forgotten by the MSM and literally everyone.

Absolutely shameful handling of what could have been a real positive for Americans: trimming down the nation, reducing stress and anxiety, and unburdening the medical system altogether. Instead people were encouraged to stay at home, burn their stimulus cheques at Just Eat, Amazon and Walmart delivery services and just pile on the pounds and health complications.

I realize there's huge money in keeping people fat, sickly and glued to their couches and shitty foods, so none of this is a surprise.

 

[Kev Kev]

I’m not vaccinated, so I’ll keep wearing my mask. Maybe in a few months this will really all be over with.

 

[Pagusas]

So today I had lunch with all of my coworkers, and it was nice. Everyone was out, no mask, lots of laughter, people hugging, and just a super full restaurant. First time in over a year that things felt normal again. I liked it.

 

[Raven117]

I wouldn't say "many months" we only really started to reach that critical turning point nationwide about six weeks ago at which point a lot of places, like Michigan and most of the northeast were having spikes.

Some other places, like California, saw things fall more steadily after the January surge, but the fact is nowhere really reached that critical level of vaccination where we're unlikely to see a spike again until pretty recently, they were just seeing the same kinds of valleys we've always seen after big surges.

So yes, now that many states have 70+% of adults vaccinated, the risk of a big spike from dropping covid restrictions seems unlikely. But you're probably overstating the extent to which this is overdue, it's really only been the case for a few weeks.

The way you responded indicates that my post was correct. You are viewing the mask as a symbol of whether to take covid seriously. The science has in fact been there for MONTHS that they marginally (if at all due to changes in overall behavior), effective. It became a symbol of political affiliation (or your stance on it). And it still is. Remember Texas and that "Neanderthal thinking" Florida? Yep, no spikes, not even in the rural areas. This was before the vaccine was really underway. Just call a spade a spade man. A cloth mask over your face doesn't do anything other than virtue signal.

Look, I get it in the beginning. Things were scary. But as everyone's understanding evolved, so should have the recommendations. They didn't. And thats the problem.

I understand that it was supposed to be symbolic of something it just always seemed incoherent.
Wearing a mask has generally been considered a symbol of rebelling against government control. Governments don't normally want you wearing masks. Plus universal mask wearing was the only way we were going to be able to operate businesses etc at even a diminished level.
I just don't understand what political statement was being made.

I hear you, and it is ironic. Its a symbol of political affiliation and also about control. "Do what we tell you to because we tell you to. You are not free to make your own decisions on health."

 

[godhandiscen]

I got my second dose of Moderna yesterday. I am fully chipped now. I can’t wait to stop wearing a mask, just two weeks now.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

See? I’m not as mean, yet I get shit on when I suggest the mask-wearing era is over.

I agree with you though.

 

[AlteredForms]

 

[SF Kosmo]

The way you responded indicates that my post was correct. You are viewing the mask as a symbol of whether to take covid seriously. The science has in fact been there for MONTHS that they marginally (if at all due to changes in overall behavior), effective. It became a symbol of political affiliation (or your stance on it). And it still is. Remember Texas and that "Neanderthal thinking" Florida? Yep, no spikes, not even in the rural areas. This was before the vaccine was really underway. Just call a spade a spade man. A cloth mask over your face doesn't do anything other than virtue signal.

I wasn't clear to me if you were talking about their efficacy in general or just now among a mostly vaccinated population. What I said was assuming the latter.

If you're arguing the former based on the fact that we haven't seen any spike post vaccine, that's obviously pretty shaky reasoning.

Masks aren't a "political" statement any more than literally any other Covid precaution is political, and the people who are against masks are also against distancing and everything else. You make it sound like this is a nuanced debate over which restrictions are effective and which aren't and it isn't. It just about people who want to be careful and people who want to go back to normal.

Now, that said, are people going to be kind of "stuck" in their Covid anxiety even as numbers continue to go down and vaccination rates go up? Yeah, of course, we've been at this for a year and I think it's gonna take people some time to feel safe and rewire their thinking.

 

[Excess]

So I got the J&J last Sunday, and I swear to god I started sweating profusely within 10 minutes and almost passed out. They gave me an anti-histamine as I tried to control my breathing. Eventually, my body settled down. Still, I was legit about to fall over. The pharmacist said it was most likely an immune-system reaction, kind of like overclocking your memory and and core clocks up on your GPU to point where you start seeing artifacts and then it BSOD's.

Since then, I've tried to understand why that might have happened. Yet, every article I've read keeps blaming it on "syncope", which is a common occurrence that is caused by the onset of anxiety from getting a vaccine. I call absolute bullshit on that. At no time was I anxious about the process, and I was even making jokes about micro-chips in the vaccine to the pharmacist. It wasn't until a few minutes later that I felt uncomfortable. In fact, the CDC reported that fainting had occurred with J&J 164 times more common when compared to the flu vaccine, in terms of syncope.

I have a feeling that the CDC isn't being so forthright about reactions for fear of causing fear. I mean, we've got tech oligarchs who are actively censoring anything remotely negative about the vaccines. Just be honest with us. This kind of half-truth bullshit is why people are skeptical. At least tell me I could have an adverse reaction to a certain kind of vaccine, and stop trying to bribe me with free fries and burgers from Shake Shack! (I'm looking at you DeBlasio.)

 

[12Goblins]

A cloth mask over your face doesn't do anything other than virtue signal.



Its a symbol of political affiliation and also about control. "Do what we tell you to because we tell you to. You are not free to make your own decisions on health."

What are asians virtue signaling when they wear a mask?

mask wearing just means keeping your germs to yourself. that's it.

Everything else is the garbage and baggage people have brought with them, like the "Control" thing; fear mongering garbage put in your head by people who make money in doing so (see CNN)

 

[epicnemesis]

What are asians virtue signaling when they wear a mask?

This doesn’t really hold water. The same action can be due to different motivating factors.

I would actually love for us to take the norm of masking when sick from Asian countries. However, let’s not pretend that the mask situation has become a political flashpoint here. And it’s not just “in your head” when it is mandated by the government that has no right to mandate it.

One party believes in big government deciding the greater good, and therefore masks are a justifiable means to an end.

The other party believes in individual rights, and any forced action as an infringement on those rights, and is willing to fight, against their best interest if needed, to make sure that those rights are preserved.

It’s a philosophical battle, and both sides are important if they are able to, you know, exchange ideas and compromise.

 

[poppabk]

The way you responded indicates that my post was correct. You are viewing the mask as a symbol of whether to take covid seriously. The science has in fact been there for MONTHS that they marginally (if at all due to changes in overall behavior), effective.

See on that you would be wrong. Its not about whether you take COVID seriously or not, masks were always about reassurance, same with distancing stickers on floors etc.
Being against masks was an idealist position - everyone knew that masks weren't just going to go away and were needed to keep the economy ticking over. I wore my mask when it was necessary, socially distanced from my family when I got sick until I got a negative COVID test, got vaccinated as soon as possible and take my mask off anywhere it is allowed since the CDC guidance.
Gotta say it was nice to go bowling and grocery shopping without a mask on, and I can't wait for my work to allow people to go without masks.

 

[DeepBreath87]

I wasn't clear to me if you were talking about their efficacy in general or just now among a mostly vaccinated population. What I said was assuming the latter.

If you're arguing the former based on the fact that we haven't seen any spike post vaccine, that's obviously pretty shaky reasoning.

Masks aren't a "political" statement any more than literally any other Covid precaution is political, and the people who are against masks are also against distancing and everything else. You make it sound like this is a nuanced debate over which restrictions are effective and which aren't and it isn't. It just about people who want to be careful and people who want to go back to normal.

Now, that said, are people going to be kind of "stuck" in their Covid anxiety even as numbers continue to go down and vaccination rates go up? Yeah, of course, we've been at this for a year and I think it's gonna take people some time to feel safe and rewire their thinking.

In a world where almost everything is being framed in political terms, including things like children’s cartoons and “ok” hand signs, thinking that masks were immune from being used as political messaging is foolishness. Masks were all the things people are saying. There were a precaution (we can debate their effectiveness). They were a reminder. And they were political signaling.

 

[Raven117]

I wasn't clear to me if you were talking about their efficacy in general or just now among a mostly vaccinated population. What I said was assuming the latter.

If you're arguing the former based on the fact that we haven't seen any spike post vaccine, that's obviously pretty shaky reasoning.

Masks aren't a "political" statement any more than literally any other Covid precaution is political, and the people who are against masks are also against distancing and everything else. You make it sound like this is a nuanced debate over which restrictions are effective and which aren't and it isn't. It just about people who want to be careful and people who want to go back to normal.

Now, that said, are people going to be kind of "stuck" in their Covid anxiety even as numbers continue to go down and vaccination rates go up? Yeah, of course, we've been at this for a year and I think it's gonna take people some time to feel safe and rewire their thinking.

Will, with vaccinated people, it is flat out stupid and anti-science. If a person wants to wear one, fine. Go right on ahead. But science shows it does absolutely nothing.

Its not shakey and not post vaccine. Also, remember that in Aug/Sept, cases around the country were low. No vaccines.

Regardless, what is done is done. Your last sentence is really what is important and I agree with it. That said, its going to take some leadership. None of this mixed messaging b.s. from the CDC. None of this "business still require." Thats all bullshit. Theater. Its time just to ditch it all and be done with it. (I know people will come around, but still).

What are asians virtue signaling when they wear a mask?

mask wearing just means keeping your germs to yourself. that's it.

Everything else is the garbage and baggage people have brought with them, like the "Control" thing; fear mongering garbage put in your head by people who make money in doing so (see CNN)

Not the same thing. If you want to wear it for other reasons, go right on ahead. But the science is there, even produced by the CDC. In terms of stopping the spread of Covid, marginal at best. (and doesn't protect you at all, hence n95 masks).

See on that you would be wrong. Its not about whether you take COVID seriously or not, masks were always about reassurance, same with distancing stickers on floors etc.
Being against masks was an idealist position - everyone knew that masks weren't just going to go away and were needed to keep the economy ticking over. I wore my mask when it was necessary, socially distanced from my family when I got sick until I got a negative COVID test, got vaccinated as soon as possible and take my mask off anywhere it is allowed since the CDC guidance.

We basically agree. "reassurance." not science. Politics/Control. Not science.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Will, with vaccinated people, it is flat out stupid and anti-science.

In a situation where we're actively checking people's vaccination status, perhaps, but if we're talking about public spaces, at a time when vaccination numbers were still now? It probably makes sense to just keep a blanket mandate. Just in terms of effective and enforcable policy.

Also, remember that in Aug/Sept, cases around the country were low. No vaccines.

This is sort of an own-goal here, because you're pointing out that low numbers alone aren't enough to show it's safe to go back to normal, and that without reaching a high enough vax rate, it'll just come roaring back. We need much higher levels of immunity than just being at the end of a surge to ensure the numbers stay low.

Now we are seeing signs of that in places that were surging during the vaccination drive, really unnatural patterns where the numbers were surging and went flat and fell sharply instead of conforming to expected curves. But places like California that were just in another normal valley after a spike had reasons to be cautious because their low numbers weren't a result of real herd immunity.

I think where we agree is that it's time to start moving back to normal. But that was hard earned through a big vaccine push, we weren't ready until recently, and there are still communities where I worry (like Latinos in densely populated urban areas, who have low vaccination rates), we're going to have some outbreaks and pockets still, but it seems like the worst is behind us.

 

[Raven117]

In a situation where we're actively checking people's vaccination status, perhaps, but if we're talking about public spaces, at a time when vaccination numbers were still now? It probably makes sense to just keep a blanket mandate. Just in terms of effective and enforcable policy.



This is sort of an own-goal here, because you're pointing out that low numbers alone aren't enough to show it's safe to go back to normal, and that without reaching a high enough vax rate, it'll just come roaring back. We need much higher levels of immunity than just being at the end of a surge to ensure the numbers stay low.

Now we are seeing signs of that in places that were surging during the vaccination drive, really unnatural patterns where the numbers were surging and went flat and fell sharply instead of conforming to expected curves. But places like California that were just in another normal valley after a spike had reasons to be cautious because their low numbers weren't a result of real herd immunity.

I think where we agree is that it's time to start moving back to normal. But that was hard earned through a big vaccine push, we weren't ready until recently, and there are still communities where I worry (like Latinos in densely populated urban areas, who have low vaccination rates), we're going to have some outbreaks and pockets still, but it seems like the worst is behind us.

As far as I am concerned, I don't care about some people not being vaccinated. They have made their choice. (Now, with lower income type folks, there needs to be a specific and HEAVY push towards vaccination and make it as convenient as possible). For the majority of Americans, its now a choice. Thats cool. Im fine with folks not being vaccinated. Not my problem. And this whole "terms of effective and enforceable policy" fuck that. Get the vaccine, you are done. The end. Science should drive that. Not some "but what if people lie about it?!" Don't care. They made their choice. And thats fine. Its infinitely worse to lie to people about why they need to wear a mask. This is blunt and stupid policy and should not have been done. There needs to be somewhere that an average american can read the science for themselves free of spin. The CDC, Fauci, and many others blew that. And significantly hurt some peoples trust of "science." (This just gives fuel to smooth-brained idiots).

While we can argue this or that about what was done and what wasn't (and I'm sure will be studied for years), we absolutely agree its time to get on with it! Get the vaccine (or not), take off all restrictions, and go on about life.

 

[SF Kosmo]

And this whole "terms of effective and enforceable policy" fuck that. Get the vaccine, you are done. The end.

Ok, but remember like a month ago not everyone was even eligible to get it yet, like if you run a business and you're still trying to protect your workers, I can see why you wouldn't just open the floodgates by making it all honor system.

It wasn't like the vaccines landed and then the next day everyone who wanted them had them, it takes time. Even now there are still 1.8 million people a day getting vaccinated in the US.

Like I hear you that now we're at a level where we can probably safely reopen but there are reasons why we didn't do it sooner.

 

[Singular7]

And people wonder why there are anti-vaxxers.

The way the health and disease experts and CDC have handled the messaging and PR aspect of the pandemic has been atrocious. They butchered it at every turn. First saying masks don't work, then a few months later saying they're everything. Then the stuff with calling people who gather outdoors to go back to work selfish and they're gonna kill people, but rooting on protestors for doing good. And then shaming and ridiculing anyone who dared to ask why they should still wear masks after vaccinated, especially outdoors, and then weeks later the CDC basically confirms there's little risk outdoors, and if you're vaccinated, very little indoors.

And then the average Joes and Janes who shamed everyone for not trusting the science and not listening to the CDC and refusing the vaccines are now saying the CDC is lifting the mask mandate too early. Why? Because they said so apparently. Now the CDC doesn't know what they're doing, but their word was gospel when it came to the vaccines.

So now that we are at the end of the pandemic, the only conclusion I can come up with is, no one ever cared about trusting the science, they just wanted to use that as a means to bully people and live in fear in perpetuity.

Whatever. I'm glad things are getting back to normal.

Sounds like you don't believe in science though

My neighbor's yard sign has basically fully educated me on the science, and right now, I'm going to need you to inject this experimental gene therapy.

 

[longdi]

This is probably mentioned here, but the India variant is wrecking havoc in Asia, better not be too complacent

 

[Droxcy]

Fully vaccinated and ready to stop this mask shit. I already know though when California goes full open workplaces and most places will still enforce.

 

[SF Kosmo]

This is probably mentioned here, but the India variant is wrecking havoc in Asia, better not be too complacent

Similar variants already hit in the US, fucked up Detroit, made some trouble in New York. But we're like one of the five most vaccinated countries, and we've been hogging the most effective vaccines too, so I'm not too worried.

A lot of these countries relying on SinoVac and Sputnik-V might Be in for some hurt. Better than nothing but probably not enough to stop the spread of new variants.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm sorry that you find doing those things with a mask on terribly difficult. I'll wear a mask and do some muscle ups for you on camera if you want

It's not that anyone can't do any of these things while wearing a mask. It's just that it's very unpleasant to do so.

 

[Rentahamster]

If a person wants to wear one, fine. Go right on ahead. But science shows it does absolutely nothing.

What science are you looking at?

Mask Mandates Work To Slow Spread Of Coronavirus, Kansas Study Finds

When Kansas issued a mask mandate, 81 counties opted out. Researchers found coronavirus infection rates rose sharply in the opt-out counties, while falling in those that required masks.

www.npr.org

Researchers analyzed coronavirus infection rates in Kansas following a statewide mask mandate. They found that counties that chose to enforce the mandate saw their cases decrease. Counties that chose to opt out saw their cases continue to rise.

"This adds to the growing body of evidence that says large, widespread masking helps to slow the spread of COVID," says Dr. Aaron Carroll, a professor at Indiana University School of Medicine.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

There was a significant decline in daily COVID-19 growth rate after the mandating of face covers in public, with the effect increasing over time after the orders were signed. Specifically, the daily case rate declined by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points within 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively. All of these declines were statistically significant (p<0.05 or less). In contrast, the pre-event trends in COVID-19 case growth rates were small and statistically insignificant.

Mask-wearing and control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA: a cross-sectional study

Face masks have become commonplace across the USA because of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) epidemic. Although evide…

www.sciencedirect.com

A logistic model controlling for physical distancing, population demographics, and other variables found that a 10% increase in self-reported mask-wearing was associated with an increased odds of transmission control (odds ratio 3·53, 95% CI 2·03–6·43). We found that communities with high reported mask-wearing and physical distancing had the highest predicted probability of transmission control. Segmented regression analysis of reported mask-wearing showed no statistically significant change in the slope after mandates were introduced; however, the upward trend in reported mask-wearing was preserved.

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...

www.pnas.org

Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce ReRe to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).

Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2

This JAMA Insights CDC review summarizes accumulating evidence that mask wearing reduces spread of SARS-CoV-2 infection and that universal mandatory mask wearing policies reduce infections and deaths and emphasizes face masks are one component of pandemic control measures, including physical...

jamanetwork.com

Community mask wearing substantially reduces transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in 2 ways. First, masks prevent infected persons from exposing others to SARS-CoV-2 by blocking exhalation of virus-containing droplets into the air (termed source control). This aspect of mask wearing is especially important because it is estimated that at least 50% or more of transmissions are from persons who never develop symptoms or those who are in the presymptomatic phase of COVID-19 illness.1 In recent laboratory experiments, multilayer cloth masks were more effective than single-layer masks, blocking as much as 50% to 70% of exhaled small droplets and particles.2,3 In some cases, cloth masks have performed similar to surgical or procedure masks for source control. Second, masks protect uninfected wearers. Masks form a barrier to large respiratory droplets that could land on exposed mucous membranes of the eye, nose, and mouth. Masks can also partially filter out small droplets and particles from inhaled air. Multiple layers of fabric and fabrics with higher thread counts improve filtration. However, the observed effectiveness of cloth masks to protect the wearer is lower than their effectiveness for source control,3 and the filtration capacity of cloth masks can be highly dependent on design, fit, and materials used. Standards for cloth masks are needed to help consumers select marketed products.

 

[CloudNull]

policies and personal beliefs aside for a minute; how much of a weak bitch u gotta be to find wearing a mask so burdensome? What do you do when faced with less trivial obstacles in your life?

It’s not the mask but the government telling you to wear it. Just like most gas stations have a “no shirt, no service” policy they can also have “no mask, no service” policy.

The issue is when government tries to tell you how to live your life which is the opposite of the foundations of the country.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What science are you looking at?

Mask Mandates Work To Slow Spread Of Coronavirus, Kansas Study Finds

When Kansas issued a mask mandate, 81 counties opted out. Researchers found coronavirus infection rates rose sharply in the opt-out counties, while falling in those that required masks.

www.npr.org

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

Mask-wearing and control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA: a cross-sectional study

Face masks have become commonplace across the USA because of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) epidemic. Although evide…

www.sciencedirect.com

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...

www.pnas.org

Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2

This JAMA Insights CDC review summarizes accumulating evidence that mask wearing reduces spread of SARS-CoV-2 infection and that universal mandatory mask wearing policies reduce infections and deaths and emphasizes face masks are one component of pandemic control measures, including physical...

jamanetwork.com

Did you read any of these studies beyond the conclusions being drawn from them?

 

[Rentahamster]

It’s not the mask but the government telling you to wear it. Just like most gas stations have a “no shirt, no service” policy they can also have “no mask, no service” policy.

The issue is when government tries to tell you how to live your life which is the opposite of the foundations of the country.

Are the government telling you to register your gun, wear a seatbelt, not murder people, not steal from others, get a driver's license, not smoke, or apply for a permit to camp in some national parks opposite of the foundations of the country too?

 

[Rentahamster]

Did you read any of these studies beyond the conclusions being drawn from them?

Yes, why?

 

[CloudNull]

Are the government telling you to register your gun, wear a seatbelt, not murder people, not steal from others, get a driver's license, not smoke, or apply for a permit to camp in some national parks opposite of the foundations of the country too?

Well depends on which state you live in. Some states don’t make you register guns or get permits to camp. The country is founded on the ideals that we get to choose which state to live in leading to which local government we follow. Large government is supposed to be minimal while we defer to local governments. People forget that frequently.

Many of your arguements are dumb, like the murder discussion. These are more philosophical discussion outside the scope of government powers. For example the government could make it legal and I would never participate because it goes against my morals, which I think many people would agree with.

 

[Rentahamster]

Well depends on which state you live in. Some states don’t make you register guns or get permits to camp. The country is founded on the ideals that we get to choose which state to live in leading to which local government we follow. Large government is supposed to be minimal while we defer to local governments. People forget that frequently.

Many of your arguements are dumb, like the murder discussion. These are more philosophical discussion outside the scope of government powers. For example the government could make it legal and I would never participate because it goes against my morals, which I think many people would agree with.

I post many mundane and extreme examples of both local and national government restricting our freedoms, which is supposedly "opposite of the foundations of the country", according to you, and your response is "your arguements are dumb"?

 

[Raven117]

Ok, but remember like a month ago not everyone was even eligible to get it yet, like if you run a business and you're still trying to protect your workers, I can see why you wouldn't just open the floodgates by making it all honor system.

It wasn't like the vaccines landed and then the next day everyone who wanted them had them, it takes time. Even now there are still 1.8 million people a day getting vaccinated in the US.

Like I hear you that now we're at a level where we can probably safely reopen but there are reasons why we didn't do it sooner.

Aware but it needed to be done by region. For instance, early on Texas had way more vaccinations going into arms than California and New York. It made sense to fully open sooner. For nyc, later. There is not nor has there ever been a one size fits all approach, but that is what was done (and all but any state not following a strict lockdown was “Neanderthal” but it all worked out.

In the end, we can let science studies figure out what happened, what worked and what didn’t. By and large, we are through with this. Covid is over. Time to get on with it.
What science are you looking at?

Mask Mandates Work To Slow Spread Of Coronavirus, Kansas Study Finds

When Kansas issued a mask mandate, 81 counties opted out. Researchers found coronavirus infection rates rose sharply in the opt-out counties, while falling in those that required masks.

www.npr.org

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

Mask-wearing and control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA: a cross-sectional study

Face masks have become commonplace across the USA because of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) epidemic. Although evide…

www.sciencedirect.com

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...

www.pnas.org

Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2

This JAMA Insights CDC review summarizes accumulating evidence that mask wearing reduces spread of SARS-CoV-2 infection and that universal mandatory mask wearing policies reduce infections and deaths and emphasizes face masks are one component of pandemic control measures, including physical...

jamanetwork.com

All that. And you didn’t cite the CDC study.

 

[DragoonKain]

I still don't know if the vaccine produced enough antibodies in me because of some meds I take, so I still gotta wear the mask for a little while longer. But only when I'm around people and indoors.

 

[Rentahamster]

All that.

Looking at studies that show how masks are effective at limiting the spread of infection convinces you that they aren't?

And you didn’t cite the CDC study.

This isn't enough?

 

[Raven117]

Looking at studies that show how masks are effective at limiting the spread of infection convinces you that they aren't?



This isn't enough?

Those articles aren’t saying what you think they are. Correlation at best. Not prevention. More over, the data is all statistically within the margin of error, but then the conclusions are “significant”. This is what I mean. The medical community really let us down by spinning their data.

But right now, who cares? It’s over. Breathe the fresh air.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Those articles aren’t saying what you think they are. Correlation at best. Not prevention. More over, the data is all statistically within the margin of rrror, but then the conclusions are “significant”. This is what I mean. The medical community reality let us down by spinning their data.

But right now, who cares? It’s over. Breathe the fresh air.

They will never breathe the fresh air. They love their masks and wish everyone had to wear them all the time. They don’t work jobs where being able to see a person’s whole face is critical to their profession. They think wearing a mask at this stage still makes a difference. They don’t understand the principles behind risk assessment, the precautionary principle, or the non-aggression principle nor do they want to.

This whole mask thing has shown us who we really are. We are either one of three people: 1) people that value and defend personal freedom, 2) people that don’t give a shit about personal freedom- think you’re an asshole for defending it- secretly wish (sometimes openly) they could take away your freedom- listen to the media narrative and take it as gospel, and 3) the kind of people that value freedom and want this to be over but their entire livelihood is dependent on the mask Karens telling them what to do. So they’re just riding it out.

 

[Raven117]

They will never breathe the fresh air. They love their masks and wish everyone had to wear them all the time. They don’t work jobs where being able to see a person’s whole face is critical to their profession. They think wearing a mask at this stage still makes a difference. They don’t understand the principles behind risk assessment, the precautionary principle, or the non-aggression principle nor do they want to.

This whole mask thing has shown us who we really are. We are either one of three people: 1) people that value and defend personal freedom, 2) people that don’t give a shit about personal freedom- think you’re an asshole for defending it- secretly wish (sometimes openly) they could take away your freedom- listen to the media narrative and take it as gospel, and 3) the kind of people that value freedom and want this to be over but their entire livelihood is dependent on the mask Karens telling them what to do. So they’re just riding it out.

Oh, I think there is are a group of people who just want to try and "pitch in" (and/or just not get yelled at by Karens or be thought of as a Trump supporter). Which I totally get.

The issue with me is that the science really isn't there, especially now. "Science" just got too wrapped up into effecting policy and thus became more political than they should be. (And people began to mistrust them).

Of course, then you have folks that have wrapped up much of their political identiy with the mask because they want to show they "care", and more importantly affect what other people do.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes, why?

OK. Even just looking at that first study linked in NPR, though, you read that and were satisfied with its rigorous science as evidence of masks working? Luckily it's a short one, so I read through it and I certainly am not convinced.

During June 1–7, 2020, the 7-day rolling average of daily COVID-19 incidence among counties that ultimately had a mask mandate was three cases per 100,000, and among counties that did not, was four per 100,000. By the week of the governor’s executive order requiring masks (July 3–9), COVID-19 incidence had increased 467% to 17 per 100,000 in mandated counties and 50% to six per 100,000 among nonmandated counties. By August 17–23, 2020, the 7-day rolling average COVID-19 incidence had decreased by 6% to 16 cases per 100,000 among mandated counties and increased by 100% to 12 per 100,000 among nonmandated counties.

We obviously need more data that looks at this in a far longer term to make any real conclusions, but this looks to me like the same phenomenon we see elsewhere in which certain areas see their waves spike faster and earlier than other surrounding areas and thus begin stabilizing and declining earlier, too. I mean, look at the difference here. From June 1-7 to July 3-0 there was 467% (3 to 17) jump in incidence (cases per 100,000 population) in the "ultimately mandated counties" vs a mere 50% (4 to 6) jump in the "nonmandated counties." That's huge. The mandated counties peaked and stabilized (incidence of 17 to 16) over the next period while the nonmandated counties doubled from 6 to 12 (but still lower than the mandated counties). It would be great if we could see if this trend continues, but I am not going to go digging through the data of 100s of counties in Kansas. We do know that the statewide trend continued to see a slow and steady rise in cases until things began to really explode in Fall/Winter.

I certainly don't feel like the data is comprehensive or conclusive enough in this study to make the claim that masks led to a reduction in one group while the lack of them led to an increase in another group.

 

[poppabk]

There are too many variables to make any kind of rigorously conclusive evidence that mask mandates work or they don't. Maybe in a couple of years time we will know after we analyze massive data sets.
We do know that masks work, both from 'common' sense and through experiment but that is an ideal situation quite far removed from mask mandates.