Support NeoGAF

[ChiefDada]

Lol, I have seen no one guilty of this here. Not even close.

 

[DForce]

The only one lying to himself is you dude, maybe read again how they presented the game, made from the ground up on ps5 but they can't introduce stuff that was ona ps4 game because is gonna break the game or require to much work...how is this fucking ok or a ground up game made on ps5 when they can't even make the levels larger to accomodate the gameplay features from tlou2.

Made from the ground up on ps5 witu oevel design and gameplay from ps3.

You can't literally make this stuff up (i mean you can and it is hilarious but still...)

Maybe you should go back and read my conversation.

Modernizing mechanics can be interpreted in many different ways, and you believe yours is the correct one. That being said, I can't see why some people are upset, but you can't admit that they were not talking about adding all TLOU 2's gameplay elements to TLOU 1.


My entire point is WHY they would choose NOT to add TLOU 2's mechanics. If you think the reasoning is stupid, take a look at all the remakes in the past 15 years and explain why developers decided to do the same thing. If your explanation is that the developers "lazy" then you're going nowhere in this conversation.

Dodge mechanic can work in TLOU 1, but the prone mechanic would be almost pointless. If you played TLOU 2, then you would know that it was only effective in high grass areas and useless inside interior areas. Want to know where most of TLOU 1's combat is located?

You have to come up with something better than, "Look how they presented the game."

 

[TheRedRiders]

Platform warriors in a nutshell.

 

[GymWolf]

When I took those screenshots at launch they were 1080p in the native 4k fidelity mode. After launch, right around the time of the Ratchet launch they were able to optimize their ray tracing algorithm to take that from 1080p all the way to 4kcb essentially doubling the resolution and then checkerboarding it to full res.

Unless you are looking at mirror like reflections, I dont think resolution really matters. Reflections are almost always slightly blurry in real life anyway.

So now ratchet look like the rift apart model and not like the ps4 remake model? because when i played the game at launch the difference in detail was pretty big, same for morales.

Blur is one thing, losing details is another.

 

[SlimySnake]

Cell was a beast, it could destroy pillars easily.

I still remember this demo that used only the cell to render this entire explosion calculating physics on the fly on its own without even a GPU.



This is what was promised to us in 2005. We never got it in games. Then the PS4 shipped with Jaguar which had no upgrades over the cell aside from being easier to program for. Now we finally have an 8x jump in raw power alone and this is the best Naughty Dog can do in 2022?

Everyone is talking about prone, dodge and enhanced melee and im like those are last gen features. Are we really going to ignore that this next gen game has ZERO next gen features? My Son was playing uncharted 2 the other day and got to the crumbling building setpiece. 13 years later, the desks, chairs, and other furniture realistically sliding down as the building crumbles is still the best physics based setpiece ive seen in a game. No one can tell me that ND cant make desks, monitors, and chairs explode or at the very least move around when there is an explosion nearby. It's not just about the graphics or dodge. It's simply a lack of effort to take advantage of this incredible piece of hardware Cerny handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[GymWolf]

Maybe you should go back and read my conversation.

Modernizing mechanics can be interpreted in many different ways, and you believe yours is the correct one. That being said, I can't see why some people are upset, but you can't admit that they were not talking about adding all TLOU 2's gameplay elements to TLOU 1.


My entire point is WHY they would choose NOT to add TLOU 2's mechanics. If you think the reasoning is stupid, take a look at all the remakes in the past 15 years and explain why developers decided to do the same thing. If your explanation is that the developers "lazy" then you're going nowhere in this conversation.

Dodge mechanic can work in TLOU 1, but the prone mechanic would be almost pointless. If you played TLOU 2, then you would know that it was only effective in high grass areas and useless inside interior areas. Want to know where most of TLOU 1's combat is located?

You have to come up with something better than, "Look how they presented the game."

This is why i spoke about making the areas larger, are you telling me that a "MADE FROM THE GROUND UP ON PS5" game really means ps3 level design and gameplay?

Not sure buddy...

I mean, if you liked tlou2 you are not gonna use the "it worsen the pace having larger areas" argument, right? it would be hilarious...

We are not talking about pissing on the corpse of a masterpiece like the ff7 repuke and changing every fucking thing, this is injecting beloved and clearly superior mechanics and better level design in what they sell as a native ps5 game, do you remember the next gen 10 euros tax right? why the hell i would not have to expect that type of work from devs?

Also yeah, lazy devs is a perfectly good explanation for many things, ESPECIALLY for something so fucking clear to whoever is not a sony shareholder, maybe you lived under a rock but in literally any profession you have lazy people, and they are not the 1-2% of the total...not even close.

 

[SlimySnake]

So now ratchet look like the rift apart model and not like the ps4 remake model? because when i played the game at launch the difference in detail was pretty big, same for morales.

Blur is one thing, losing details is another.

Nah, Ratchet shipped with the enhanced 4kcb reflections. So if there was a character model LOD downgrade in reflections, it should still be there.

I think Insomniac is very talented and thinks outside the box (their RT reflections, 40 fps modes and VRR implementation is top notch), but they are missing a trick by targeting native 4k with these games. Just go with 4kcb or 1440p and use TSR or FSR to upscale to native 4k. You will get half of the GPU back and seeing as how costly RT performance is on these AMD cards, it's probably best to focus on using the rendering budget on higher character LODs, better textures and lighting instead of simply resolution.

 

[GymWolf]

Nah, Ratchet shipped with the enhanced 4kcb reflections. So if there was a character model LOD downgrade in reflections, it should still be there.

I think Insomniac is very talented and thinks outside the box (their RT reflections, 40 fps modes and VRR implementation is top notch), but they are missing a trick by targeting native 4k with these games. Just go with 4kcb or 1440p and use TSR or FSR to upscale to native 4k. You will get half of the GPU back and seeing as how costly RT performance is on these AMD cards, it's probably best to focus on using the rendering budget on higher character LODs, better textures and lighting instead of simply resolution.

But like me you were not super impressed by the spidey 2 trailer?! or did i remember wrong?

I liked the city details, not much the minor improvements on spidey model (that of course was already super good on ps4\morales)

 

[SlimySnake]

But like me you were not super impressed by the spidey 2 trailer?! or did i remember wrong?

I liked the city details, not much the minor improvements on spidey model (that of course was already super good on ps4\morales)

I was. Especially when i compared it to the Miles CG tv spot.

But then Matrix came out and my standards went up. It's like going black, once you see UE5, you cant go back.

 

[Romulus]

Cell was a beast, it could destroy pillars easily.

Indeed. At 20-30fps moving down linear paths.

 

[GymWolf]

I was. Especially when i compared it to the Miles CG tv spot.

But then Matrix came out and my standards went up. It's like going black, once you see UE5, you cant go back.

I still have to play that damn tech demo, i have installed on my ps5

So you were ok with spidey new model? it still looked videogame-y to me, i was expecting a big jump in term of fidelity, weren't you expecting more? shit i need to rewatch the trailer because for the love of god i was severely unimpressed, i w

Wolverine "if real time" looked better.

 

[SlimySnake]

I still have to play that damn tech demo, i have installed on my ps5

So you were ok with spidey new model? weren't you expecting more? shit i need to rewatch the trailer because for the love of god i was severely unimpressed.

Wolverine "if real time" looked better.

Yeah, the character model was very underwhelming. The lighting looked better and the environments too, but didnt feel mind blowing like the Matrix does. I suspect Jimbo made them make it cross gen so they targeted native 4k 50 fps again just in case they had to port it to the PS4 if the pandemic/chip shortage lasted longer.

Wolverine was CG. They said it doesnt represent final game graphics.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, the character model was very underwhelming. The lighting looked better and the environments too, but didnt feel mind blowing like the Matrix does. I suspect Jimbo made them make it cross gen so they targeted native 4k 50 fps again just in case they had to port it to the PS4 if the pandemic/chip shortage lasted longer.

Wolverine was CG. They said it doesnt represent final game graphics.

In theory spidey 2 is ps5 exclusive...

 

[DForce]

This is why i spoke about making the areas larger, are you telling me that a "MADE FROM THE GROUND UP ON PS5" game really means ps3 level design and gameplay?

Not sure buddy...

Looks like you're not familiar with the term "rebuild from the ground up."

Entirely rebuilt from the ground up, this remake invites you to experience the unsettling story and ruthless combat of Demon’s Souls​

Demon's Souls | PS5 Games | PlayStation

Get Demon's Souls on PS5. Get the latest news, screenshots, trailers and more on the official PlayStation website.

www.playstation.com

Bluepoint literally used assets from the original PS3 title. No, I'm not talking about just the fighting mechanics, I'm also talking about enemy AI behavior. They were adamant about staying true to the original. They were even reluctant on adding tutorials on how to use features that weren't easily explained in the original.



According to you, "It doesn't matter."

It matters to the devs. There are MANY interviews from devs stating they want to stick to the original gameplay mechanics as much as possible. If it "didn't matter" then they would have no reason to hold these mechanics back.

They didn't want to add Melee combat to Resident Evil 2 Remake because it was not an action-focused game.

Rely On Horror: Since Resident Evil 2‘s release, Resident Evil has had several action-heavy focused entries such as Resident Evil 4. From what I played of the demo this remake is a faithful and pure survival horror game. Was there any point in development where you considered making the remake more action focused?

Tsuyoshi Kanda: I’m very pleased you got that impression from the demo, ’cause right from the start our goal was respecting the original’s horror atmosphere and gameplay. Resident Evil 4 and that sort of middle series of games had a more of an action/set piece focus where you’re always moving forward almost like a roller-coaster ride. That’s not what this title is, always from the start we wanted to keep it about exploration, backtracking, metroidvania style of gameplay with stages you can come and go in. You can of course use the latest technology to update that experience in lots of ways, but we never considered that this project would become an action game.

Resident Evil 3 was more action focused than 2. Do you know why dodge and melee mechanics were added?

It was introduced in Resident Evil 3 and the game was more action-focused.

I mean, if you liked tlou2 you are not gonna use the "it worsen the pace having larger areas" argument, right? it would be hilarious...

TLOU 1 is not designed for prone mechanics. Guess what's going to happen if it's introduced within the same environment? It's barely going to be used.

In the new Dead Space Remake, they added a new mechanic from Dead Space 2 and they changed the environments to accommodate it.

We are not talking about pissing on the corpse of a masterpiece like the ff7 repuke and changing every fucking thing, this is injecting beloved and clearly superior mechanics and better level design in what they sell as a native ps5 game, do you remember the next gen 10 euros tax right? why the hell i would not have to expect that type of work from devs?

Also yeah, lazy devs is a perfectly good explanation for many things, ESPECIALLY for something so fucking clear to whoever is not a sony shareholder, maybe you lived under a rock but in literally any profession you have lazy people, and they are not the 1-2% of the total...not even close.

So, you want them to change the entire level design just to introduce a prone mechanic?

Do you even remember the first game? I played through both games many times, I also watched many people play it. The prone mechanic was RARELY used outside of areas that were NOT surrounded by foliage.

Calling devs lazy is just an excuse people come up with because they're not satisfied with the changes that were made.

TLOU Remake was INTENDED to be a low-budget project. Devs weren't lazy, they were literally under time and budget constraints. They're not going to increase the budget by millions just to introduce a prone mechanic.

Your argument is still the same: The devs said built from the ground up with modernized mechanics, so that means they should've added all the new mechanics from The Last of Us Part II.

My argument: It was a design choice to keep the mechanics close to the original. Since they're likely going to release TLOU Director's Cut and make some improvements over the PS4 version, they probably don't want to make the gameplay exactly the same.

We're done here. All you're going to do is repeat the same argument without even explaining why Bluepoint used many gameplay assets from the PS3 version of Demon's Souls.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I wanted prone so bad. I don't even care if it breaks the game. I'll turn up the difficulty and play perma-death mode to even the score.

I guess I just like the degree of agency.

 

[GymWolf]

Demon's souls didn't had a remaster on ps4, this is the difference, when you make a game for the third time in less than 10 years people have other expectations.

And bluepoint from the start said that the remake was basically the same game but with enhanced graphic, loading times etc. because they know they are not as good as From and changing something could upset the fans, they had no experience with other souls games, very different from ND situation, bluepoint remade the animations but with the same frame-time of the original (or whatever it was), the game play exactly the same and everyone knew this from the start because they were more open than ND.

to quote you:

Entirely rebuilt from the ground up, this remake invites you to experience the unsettling story and ruthless combat of Demon’s Souls​

Do you read enhanced combat anywhere? or any other type of gameplay enhancement? it looks like a crystal clear statement to me, and it was exactly what we got without any surprise.

What ND said about their game tho? rebuilt from the ground up on ps5 without the limits of ps3 hardware, applying what they learned from tlou2, they were super misleading and people had different expectations, you can't fault us for that, you really can't, especially when we have the 10 dollars next gen tax and all the bullshit about the magic power of ps5.

Tlou remake having the same mechanics of tlou2 was the single most used defense when people asked why this remaster was even a thing...that and the serial tv thing.

Yeah we are done.

The most ironic thing is that i'm probably gonna end buying the thing on day one if i find a good price on amazon or whatever (because believe it or not, i have like 5 runs between tlou\tlou2\ps4 remake.)

So in the end, you win

 

[SlimySnake]

Demon's souls didn't had a remaster on ps4, this is the difference, when you make a game for the third time in less than 10 years people have other expectations.

And bluepoint from the start said that the remake was basically the same game but with enhanced graphic, loading times etc. because they know they are not as good as From and changing something could upset the fans, they had no experience with other souls games, very different from ND situation, bluepoint remade the animations but with the same frame-time of the original (or whatever it was), the game play exactly the same and everyone knew this from the start because they were more open than ND.

to quote you:

Entirely rebuilt from the ground up, this remake invites you to experience the unsettling story and ruthless combat of Demon’s Souls​

Do you read enhanced combat anywhere? or any other type of gameplay enhancement? it looks like a crystal clear statement to me, and it was exactly what we got without any surprise.

What ND said about their game tho? rebuilt from the ground up on ps5 without the limits of ps3 hardware, applying what they learned from tlou2, they were super misleading and people had different expectations, you can't fault us for that, you really can't, especially when we have the 10 dollars next gen tax and all the bullshit about the magic power of ps5.

Tlou remake having the same mechanics of tlou2 was the single most used defense when people asked why this remaster was even a thing...that and the serial tv thing.

Yeah we are done.

The most ironic thing is that i'm probably gonna end buying the thing on day one if i find a good price on amazon or whatever (because believe it or not, i have like 5 runs between tlou\tlou2\ps4 remake.)

So in the end, you win

Yep. Everyone had played their previous remake SOTC which was basically an asset upgrade with minor improvements to controls which is basically what we got in Demon Souls. We knew what we were getting. An incredible looking visual upgrade with minimal gameplay changes. With ND, we are not getting that incredible visual upgrade so everything else feels lackluster. Part of it is due to Demon Souls looking like a PS2 game, and the original TLOU looking a gen ahead of DS, but with the remake, the tables have turned. Now DS looks a gen ahead of TLOU Remake.

When a small barely 100 person porting studio is outclassing THE premiere Sony studio, it's time to start asking questions just what the hell is going on over there. With how defensive they have been on twitter playing victims, it's obvious they think this was good enough and something we would all eat up no questions asked. To me thats more troubling. Is the old ND perfectionist era gone? Or is this just a side project they half assed? These guys used to look at games from GG and SSM and say we gotta top this and then somehow do it. Why didnt the same happen when they saw Demon Souls at the PS5 reveal 2 years ago? This would've been right when they took over this project from VSG after shipping TLOU2 in May 2020.

 

[GymWolf]

Yep. Everyone had played their previous remake SOTC which was basically an asset upgrade with minor improvements to controls which is basically what we got in Demon Souls. We knew what we were getting. An incredible looking visual upgrade with minimal gameplay changes. With ND, we are not getting that incredible visual upgrade so everything else feels lackluster. Part of it is due to Demon Souls looking like a PS2 game, and the original TLOU looking a gen ahead of DS, but with the remake, the tables have turned. Now DS looks a gen ahead of TLOU Remake.

When a small barely 100 person porting studio is outclassing THE premiere Sony studio, it's time to start asking questions just what the hell is going on over there. With how defensive they have been on twitter playing victims, it's obvious they think this was good enough and something we would all eat up no questions asked. To me thats more troubling. Is the old ND perfectionist era gone? Or is this just a side project they half assed? These guys used to look at games from GG and SSM and say we gotta top this and then somehow do it. Why didnt the same happen when they saw Demon Souls at the PS5 reveal 2 years ago? This would've been right when they took over this project from VSG after shipping TLOU2 in May 2020.

I would not go that far.

Models and animations are probably gonna piss all over demons.

 

[PanzerAzel]

Your argument is still the same: The devs said built from the ground up with modernized mechanics, so that means they should've added all the new mechanics from The Last of Us Part II.

My argument: It was a design choice to keep the mechanics close to the original. Since they're likely going to release TLOU Director's Cut and make some improvements over the PS4 version, they probably don't want to make the gameplay exactly the same.

Even were your argument valid, this still doesn't address why the combat hasn't been elevated in terms of the tangible brutality and increased visceral nature and portrayal of the violence found in the sequel. Would that have affected level design? Would it have strayed too far from the original?

If ND were so adamant to retain closeness to the original, yet within that vision deemed the overhauling of environmental and superficial assets to bring it up to modern par, then why wasn't that superficial uplift applied to the portrayal of the violence of the encounters analogous to the second game? There is a large difference to be found there, even absent the specific mechanics you guys are arguing over. Because as I see it, there is an incongruence in the visual overhaul that looks to be significant in application to many other areas of the remake that lacks in the encounters. It looks to have been left absolutely untouched, and it comes off as a double standard to speak about them wishing to remain close to the first while remaining unbothered by significant asset and animation work outside of it, yet you don't seem to accord the same to combat that, in terms of it being showed the same tlc in developmental attentions, isn't present.

Don't you guys wish to see SOME changes to the combat, like, at all? It is the central gameplay loop, and (from the leaks) it doesn't appear to have been improved or modernized in any respect whatsoever (new mechanics aren't even necessary for that). They would be a surplus, as the modeling of the engagements were more than they granted.

 

[SlimySnake]

I would not go that far.

Models and animations are probably gonna piss all over demons.

TLOU2 models look way better in cutscenes than they do in gameplay. DS gameplay models look way better thanks to better materials, better light bounce and textures. TLOU Part 1 and Part 2 both have these very muddy textures on characters that make them look very last gen. oddly enough, they look fine in cutscenes so they must be using very low LODs during gameplay. Demon Souls uses the best character model at all times in cutscenes and in gameplay.

Animations TLOU2 is better but they didnt bother porting some of the more impressive motion matching animations anyway.

 

[GymWolf]

TLOU2 models look way better in cutscenes than they do in gameplay. DS gameplay models look way better thanks to better materials, better light bounce and textures. TLOU Part 1 and Part 2 both have these very muddy textures on characters that make them look very last gen. oddly enough, they look fine in cutscenes so they must be using very low LODs during gameplay. Demon Souls uses the best character model at all times in cutscenes and in gameplay.

Animations TLOU2 is better but they didnt bother porting some of the more impressive motion matching animations anyway.

Yeah i don't know, metal vs way more difficult materials to render, and new tess models looks more like a real person than anything inside demons by far.

Also that close up of the demons chick is pretty horrible, she look like a doll, the armour is the only thing that shine (literally)

And the tlou2 screen you chose are pretty low res or at least they look low res.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah i don't know, metal vs way more difficult materials to render, and new tess models looks more like a real person than anything inside demons by far.

Also that close up of the demons chick is pretty horrible, she look like a doll, the armour is the only thing that shine (literally)

And the tlou2 screen you chose are pretty low res or at least they look low res.

I am currently playing TLOU2 mopping up some trophies I will take some 4k shots. They should make for more accurate comparisons.

I know the solution to TLOU Remake's visual problems. Just make Abby the Terminator and give her a metallic skin that will reflect properly. Problem solved. ;p

But seriously, adding hero lighting and better textures would help these characters stand out. We all know how stunning Aloy looks under any lighting condition despite the hero lighting downgrade in the final product.

 

[GymWolf]

I am currently playing TLOU2 mopping up some trophies I will take some 4k shots. They should make for more accurate comparisons.

I know the solution to TLOU Remake's visual problems. Just make Abby the Terminator and give her a metallic skin that will reflect properly. Problem solved. ;p

But seriously, adding hero lighting and better textures would help these characters stand out. We all know how stunning Aloy looks under any lighting condition despite the hero lighting downgrade in the final product.

Well the comparison should be with tlou remake 4k screens and we don't have that.

What i meant with the metal thing, is that metal is easier to make look good compared to skin or other fabrics, your screen doesn't even have rtx reflections and it looks super good (the armour at least)

 

[SlimySnake]

Well the comparison should be with tlou remake 4k screens and we don't have that.

What i meant with the metal thing, is that metal is easier to make look good compared to skin or other fabrics, your screen doesn't even have rtx reflections and it looks super good (the armour at least)

Yeah, I know what you meant. I beat the game like 13 times with every single class and i recall the game using exquisite materials even when wearing robes. Sadly, the dumb undead mechanic in the game essentially forces you to play the game with a shitty blurry character model with a white aura around you at all times. I think it deceived many gamers into thinking the game didnt look that great.

As for the remake, it seems to have the same graphics limitations as TLOU2 and i see the same muddy textures here that I saw in the 4k remake trailer below. You should be able to spot what im trying to point. It's how the shirt and jeans blend into the backpack. It just looks muddy and blurry. Oddly enough they havent released any gameplay screenshots so the only high quality shots we have are the leaked boston shots. They did say that they are using cutscene quality models in gameplay but frankly i cant tell.

 

[sendit]

I can only imagine using youtube compression to judge texture work.

 

[GymWolf]

I can only imagine using youtube compression to judge texture work.

Yeah that's far from optimal.

 

[EDMIX]

Even were your argument valid, this still doesn't address why the combat hasn't been elevated in terms of the tangible brutality and increased visceral nature and portrayal of the violence found in the sequel.

They likely didn't want that tone for the remake

Would it have strayed too far from the original?

^ likely.

I think a lot of this is getting folks a bit carried away. As far as I've read, I don't see anything that ND has posted that would 100% state Prone or dodge or those features 1.1 where going to be in the remake, simply rebuilt from the ground up to take advantage of PS5, new tech, modern gameplay etc. Nothing there states this 1.1 thing for folks to then exaggerate those statements to be some factual confirmation of some of those features.

If to them those modern gameplay features include the AI with NPCs talking to each other to flank, using the PS5 controls, the 3D sound set up, that speed run mode etc....to them, stating "modernized mechanics" means all that, it doesn't actually 100% mean it will be everything you are asking for as that starts to sound a bit silly. Those features clearly are modern and what we come to expect, that doesn't mean every last thing from The Last Of Us 2 in terms of design would be in the game as its clear certain things didn't get put in based on the tone or feel of the first title, that might be all we are talking about here btw....

I don't see enough to argue some lie or scam or conspiracy

 

[PanzerAzel]

They likely didn't want that tone for the remake

In terms of tonality, I'd argue that's established by the universe they've created, and that the original's tone of combat wasn't dictated by any conscious decision towards it, but instead by the limitations of technology that precluded them from realizing it to the fullest degree they originally envisioned, a degree that was realized in the sequel. The universe sets the tone, not the iterative installments that take place within it. Otherwise, you're creating an inconsistent universe.

^ likely.

I think a lot of this is getting folks a bit carried away. As far as I've read, I don't see anything that ND has posted that would 100% state Prone or dodge or those features 1.1 where going to be in the remake, simply rebuilt from the ground up to take advantage of PS5, new tech, modern gameplay etc. Nothing there states this 1.1 thing for folks to then exaggerate those statements to be some factual confirmation of some of those features.

If to them those modern gameplay features include the AI with NPCs talking to each other to flank, using the PS5 controls, the 3D sound set up, that speed run mode etc....to them, stating "modernized mechanics" means all that, it doesn't actually 100% mean it will be everything you are asking for as that starts to sound a bit silly. Those features clearly are modern and what we come to expect, that doesn't mean every last thing from The Last Of Us 2 in terms of design would be in the game as its clear certain things didn't get put in based on the tone or feel of the first title, that might be all we are talking about here btw....

I don't see enough to argue some lie or scam or conspiracy

Mechanics aren't really my issue, it's this: Sony's statement:

"Enjoy a total overhaul of the original experience, faithfully reproduced but incorporating modernized gameplay, improved controls and expanded accessibility options. Plus, feel immersed with improved effects and enhanced exploration and combat."

I've said about as much to this topic as I think will be productive to my point so this will probably be my final post, but there has been absolutely nothing shown that I could qualify as "enhanced combat" in those leaks. People can argue that ND never explicitly promised TLoU II's gameplay, that certain mechanics aren't a good fit, and these are valid positions.....and they still have yet to explain how the combat is enhanced given what we've seen. And until they do so, I not only find the attempts to defend Sony and ND here to be far more of a stretch and display of mental gymnastics in apologetics than those holding these companies and developers to their own words, but also that Sony and ND have been downright deceptive and misleading in their allusions as to what this remake would entail.

That wouldn't bother me nearly so badly if they weren't asking $70 for it, but they are. Thankfully, the leaker saved me that money, because I definitely would've pre-ordered otherwise. But the trust in Sony and ND is now diminished, and I don't find it unjustified.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Did they clarify what they mean by “enhanced exploration”?

 

[GymWolf]

Did they clarify what they mean by “enhanced exploration”?

You have to explore your wallet a bit longer to find that additional 10 dollars banknote they ask for the game.

 

[GymWolf]

They likely didn't want that tone for the remake

^ likely.

I think a lot of this is getting folks a bit carried away. As far as I've read, I don't see anything that ND has posted that would 100% state Prone or dodge or those features 1.1 where going to be in the remake, simply rebuilt from the ground up to take advantage of PS5, new tech, modern gameplay etc. Nothing there states this 1.1 thing for folks to then exaggerate those statements to be some factual confirmation of some of those features.

If to them those modern gameplay features include the AI with NPCs talking to each other to flank, using the PS5 controls, the 3D sound set up, that speed run mode etc....to them, stating "modernized mechanics" means all that, it doesn't actually 100% mean it will be everything you are asking for as that starts to sound a bit silly. Those features clearly are modern and what we come to expect, that doesn't mean every last thing from The Last Of Us 2 in terms of design would be in the game as its clear certain things didn't get put in based on the tone or feel of the first title, that might be all we are talking about here btw....

I don't see enough to argue some lie or scam or conspiracy

Yeah realistic gore doesn't mix well with extreme violence, interrogation torture, pedo maniacs, suicides, childrens dying violently etc. that you find in the first game, it's not like you can blow up heads, hands and legs in the first game either or you have like a super gorey finish when a clicker catch you or one of the nastiest granade ever made in a videogame...

Thank god you added "likely"...

 

[aygomyownroad]

I just think this remake is a waste, especially for the price. Maybe if it was cheaper and or a small paid or free update to users of the last remaster.

It is getting more ridiculous than Skyrim!

I won't be dipping into this straight away. Completed it on PS3 so may pick it up down the line in a sale or second hand if its cheap enough

 

[Ellery]

Did they clarify what they mean by “enhanced exploration”?

Nope, but I don't expect them to add areas to the game. Maybe some sort of collectibles like Uncharted has or unlocking artwork or clothes.
They could also mean some accessibility settings with that. No idea honestly.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

I still remember this demo that used only the cell to render this entire explosion calculating physics on the fly on its own without even a GPU.



This is what was promised to us in 2005. We never got it in games. Then the PS4 shipped with Jaguar which had no upgrades over the cell aside from being easier to program for. Now we finally have an 8x jump in raw power alone and this is the best Naughty Dog can do in 2022?

I can’t forget about this powerpoint slide from Jensen himself in that 2005 presentation..

 

[DForce]

Even were your argument valid, this still doesn't address why the combat hasn't been elevated in terms of the tangible brutality and increased visceral nature and portrayal of the violence found in the sequel. Would that have affected level design? Would it have strayed too far from the original?

If ND were so adamant to retain closeness to the original, yet within that vision deemed the overhauling of environmental and superficial assets to bring it up to modern par, then why wasn't that superficial uplift applied to the portrayal of the violence of the encounters analogous to the second game? There is a large difference to be found there, even absent the specific mechanics you guys are arguing over. Because as I see it, there is an incongruence in the visual overhaul that looks to be significant in application to many other areas of the remake that lacks in the encounters. It looks to have been left absolutely untouched, and it comes off as a double standard to speak about them wishing to remain close to the first while remaining unbothered by significant asset and animation work outside of it, yet you don't seem to accord the same to combat that, in terms of it being showed the same tlc in developmental attentions, isn't present.

Don't you guys wish to see SOME changes to the combat, like, at all? It is the central gameplay loop, and (from the leaks) it doesn't appear to have been improved or modernized in any respect whatsoever (new mechanics aren't even necessary for that). They would be a surplus, as the modeling of the engagements were more than they granted.

I was talking about the dodge and prone mechanics only. I believe there's a good reason why these mechanics were not added into The Last of Us Remake.

Would I be against adding the brutal violence that was featured in TLOU 2? No, I wouldn't. I said before that I wish they added better melee animations because they look like they were copied and pasted over. My biggest gripe is the $70 price point. This game should have been $40 - $50 because this game does not feature multiplayer and it's not a complete overall of the original title.

With that being said, I understand that this was intended to be a small low budget project so I can understand why they took some shortcuts.

 

[EDMIX]

Yeah realistic gore doesn't mix well with extreme violence, interrogation torture, pedo maniacs, suicides, childrens dying violently etc. that you find in the first game, it's not like you can blow up heads, hands and legs in the first game either or you have like a super gorey finish when a clicker catch you or one of the nastiest granade ever made in a videogame...

Thank god you added "likely"...

lol I don't disagree with you at all. I feel it should be in all of this as the IP is very dark, but when part 2 came out everyone was like "part 1 was da hope doe, not part 2 is da evilz" lol

So you bring up all great points Wolf. imho, all those ideas fit too much of that world for it to exist in the second game, yet in part 1 remake to be nerfed or something. I get the game is about hope and all...but a gun still can blow someone's head off.

So I'd like to know why they made that choice to omit all of that. The game is already rated M.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

I just think this remake is a waste, especially for the price. Maybe if it was cheaper and or a small paid or free update to users of the last remaster.

It is getting more ridiculous than Skyrim!

I won't be dipping into this straight away. Completed it on PS3 so may pick it up down the line in a sale or second hand if its cheap enough

Nah skyrim is a joke. Nothing is worse than release the same game every year with 60$ price.
At least tlou part 1 they upgrade the graphic and animations.

 

[EDMIX]

Nah skyrim is a joke. Nothing is worse than release the same game every year with 60$ price.
At least tlou part 1 they upgrade the graphic and animations.

yup and I love Skyrim, but i wish that time was spent port Oblivion and adding mods instead.

So we got Skyrim on PS4 and XONE, then we got Skyrim SE on PS4 and XONE.....then we got that VR thing for it lol

Its like....if they had time for 3 remasters, they had time for 1 Skyrim port, 1 Oblivion port wit da mods lol til dis day...I'm still shocked they didn't just port remaster Oblivion or Fallout 3 and NV.

At this point...we need a remake of Oblivion. I think a remaster was ok to expect last gen, now it needs to be a remake as I don't think a remaster will do this long after. its why I'm so shocked many made a stink about The Last Of Us when it was those full price remasters and ports are called cash grabs....

to then call a remake a cash grab is a bit much.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I can only imagine using youtube compression to judge texture work.

Every. Time.

 

[Nigel]

Can you jump? This is important.

 

[JaksGhost]

Sony isn't putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy and play this again so I don't know why people are still angry months later while spewing the same BS.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

It goes without saying that once this hits the shelves ND will start their Lou2 remastered for PS5 as there isn't a native PS5 version yet.