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[Clear]

I'm impressed they left the like/dislike buttons active. That ratio, tho... oomf.

Who cares when I'm yet to hear a reasoned persuasive justification for their hatred. Its all emotion and completely disconnected from the actual reality of both games. Which is kinda interesting because it strikes me that they couldn't have really liked or understood the first game either. I get that Joel was a fan favorite character, but the game is more of the same, just improved in every mechanical and technical aspect, just a much darker and more fatalistic second chapter.

Frankly if its viewed as having killed the franchise, then I;m glad that Druckmann and co got to go out on their own terms. Because I cannot comprehend what sort of cheeseball shit-show of a finale would have pleased these same Joel fanboys.

 

[carlosrox]

Wait this ain't no DLC is it?

 

[carlosrox]

Abby is a good character, never understood the hate. Pretty attractive too.

I agree I liked her as a character.

As far as her being attractive she definitely has highs and lows. Her face is generally pretty cute though. It's clear they mangled her model (chest and arms) though and obviously it was intentional.

 

[Woggleman]

I love it when the creators of a certain piece of art just say the hell with it and do what they want and that is what Neil did. Almost every great artist has made something polarizing at one point. If they just made a fan service game people would have had an issue with it as well.

 

[Warablo]

Why did they even make this trailer at this point in time?

Honestly I think just to troll us, this is some weird shit.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The explanation is the mutated cordyceps is wrapped around her brain meaning there's no way to extract this benign, mutated version without killing Ellie. This being the first and only medical examination is why the decision to continue or not has to be made quickly. The Fireflies have been decimated at this point making it a last ditch attempt at creating a cure and thus rebuilding their bargaining power.

It doesn't make them look good, but then nothing the Fireflies do really makes them look good. The only question is whether they represent a greater or lesser evil than the authorities, who themselves are in equally dire straits at this point.

I was talking about the timing of the surgery, why it needed to happen right then and there. Why Ellie was kept unconscious, and Joel and Ellie not given an opportunity to talk about the surgery. This all reflects poorly on the Fireflies and is cause for more friction than necessary without any explanation why the surgery couldn't be delayed.

To Abby, the problem with Joel is that he murdered her father, not that he denied the world a cure. Its a personal vendetta.

To Ellie, the problem with Joel is that he betrayed her trust and made her live a lie for years. Its a personal grudge, and him being killed by Abby before they have properly reconciled their issue is what hits her the hardest. That Joel would have enemies from his past who'd like to do him harm is no surprise at all, its the timing of it that really hurts precisely because Joel's reasons for saving her were understandable, even if they were selfish.

Joel is still Joel. There's no revision to his character or outlook at all, he states repeatedly that he'd do it again. Even if he knew the cure would have been a success he would still have chosen the same path. In some respects he's like Rorschach in Watchmen, his past has rigidly bound him to follow his convictions beyond all reason or debate. Its a sort of broken heroism that is simultaneously admirable and tragic.

Stop looking for a moral lesson here. Its just human behavior in extremis; desperate people clinging onto their dreams and values in world that's long gone past the point of caring about any of that.

The revision was Ellie's attitude. In part I she makes plans for a future after the hospital visit, indicating that she wasn't just willing to die without at least being informed about it first. In part II she says that she was supposed to die at that hospital even though nobody asked her and she never stated it to Joel. She can't really be stay angry at Joel that he lied to her if she was never up front with him that she was willing to die at a moments notice the whole time.

But we know she's damaged emotionally. Orphaned, forced to watch her first love die before her eyes while she inexplicably survived. She's untrusting and defensive, but over the course of their long journey together to Salt Lake she opens up and bonds with Joel as the reliable parental figure she's always craved. She's forced to kill or be killed, brutally stabbing David to death before he rapes and murders her.

By the end of the story she's distant and obsessed with the journey, and her life to that point, actually meaning something. There's a brief moment of respite with the Giraffes but that's just one moment within an endless fight for survival.

So no. It exactly sounds like the Ellie we see at the end of the game. Confused, doubting, underwhelmed by the prospect of life in Jackson, and still tormented by an existential need for her immunity to mean something.

How does it make sense for her to get Joel to see her as a daughter while at the same time she's ready to cut him out of her life at a moments notice for the vaccine? She might be confused, doubting and underwhelmed but that kind of selfish cruelty in Ellie's character hasn't been established or even hinted at throughout the game.

 

[Yselacrey00]

Abby was never as bad as gaf made out to be. Did people only not like her because she was a bit Manish.

No, we didn't like her because of the way she was throwed at us. There's nothing wrong with the character, it was just bad story telling. Why on earth would I want to play with her after what she did?

 

[DavidGzz]

Abby was never as bad as gaf made out to be. Did people only not like her because she was a bit Manish.

Yep, it demasculates the skinny/fat nerds on here. I can't wait for it. Love me some Abby.

 

[Clear]

How does it make sense for her to get Joel to see her as a daughter while at the same time she's ready to cut him out of her life at a moments notice for the vaccine? She might be confused, doubting and underwhelmed but that kind of selfish cruelty in Ellie's character hasn't been established or even hinted at throughout the game.

Your argument is based on a hypothetical that could be staged in any variety of ways. Every bit of evidence in both games points to Ellie getting put under and being oblivious of everything until awakening in the back of Joel's car.

So I don't see a contradiction. Ellie's judgement is made in hindsight, not the moment. Because circumstances didn't permit it and after that Joel hid the truth of what actually went down so she was powerless to change any part of it.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Jesus m8 fill the fucking blanks in yourself use that imagination, we don't need handheld through every little fucking detail

Jesus m8, why do I have to fill in the blanks for this when they fill in the blanks for everything else? They do flashbacks for trivial shit but they couldn't cover this?

 

[Shmunter]

Yep, it demasculates the skinny/fat nerds on here. I can't wait for it. Love me some Abby.

I don’t care to check, but surely it’s mostly console wars noise. The other side latches onto something that’s an easy target and amplify it.

 

[Halo is Back]

I feel like OP made this thread just to get people arguing about TLOU2 again

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

BEST FEMALE CHARACTER IN A DECADE!!!

 

[DavidGzz]

I don’t care to check, but surely it’s mostly console wars noise. The other side latches onto something that’s an easy target and amplify it.

I only scanned the first page but I see it from mostly Sony fans.

 

[VulcanRaven]

The prestigious game awards.

So much wow..

People wouldn't complain if they didn't care about the award.

 

[Jon Neu]

People wouldn't complain if they didn't care about it.

Making fun of the industry licking each other anuses it's always funny.

 

[Gojko_of_Rivia]

I wonder what drunkard Jim Ryan really thinks about whole TLOU2 situation

 

[The_Mike]

You are posting on the wrong forum. Let me redirect you.

So, now I am a racist, because I think Abby is the weakest exclusive and most hated character in sonys portfolio?

Get some help man. And again, given how many who shares my opinion in here compared to yours, I think you are on the wrong forum.

 

[ksdixon]

Agreed. He had little choice and it was unbeknownst to him that this person was who she was.



Yet he randomly trusted those 2 bothers in the first game? He is a flawed character, he can't read minds (unless some of you know something about Joel that we don't). Someone else ambushing you is not a choice you make, its a choice they make....

Be like "ok be back soon, also don't get ambushed" lol

Clear Agreed. I think many need to actually see the female bodybuilders that existed before roids. Abby isn't even near as jacked as they are. Weightlifting and cutting weight to get a lower bodyfat will effect breast as that is mostly fat, so going to a lower bodyfat will get that look. That isn't even a male or female thing, that is simply a bodyfat thing as a man can be fat enough to literally have boobs lol

What two brothers? Sam and Henry? You TLOU2 fans don't help yourself, do you? The FIRST thing Joel did was try to kill the older one! Likewise, the FIRST thing Tommy did when he saw people rocking up to his damn was to line up a gun shot, only afterwards did he see it was his brother and some girl.

Compare this with TLOU2 Joel and Tommy who put themselves into a bad situation by trusting a stranger, and take it further by letting them know the location of their settlement, offer to give Abby's crew supplies, and also walked freely into a room where they're literally surrounded. Meanwhile Ellie is literally screwing around when it's supposed to be her patrol. These are not the same TLOU1 characters, and all their crap is to facilitate the situation of Joel's killing even being possible to happen. And then the rest of the game spends it's time LITERALLY retconning situations from how they were in reality in TLOU1, changing characters reasoning behind actions and trying to lead the player into believing what ND want to be true. Forget about the established facts from TLOU1, TLOU2 is "Neil's personal truth". No wonder Bruce Straley and 75% of the workforce left.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Your argument is based on a hypothetical that could be staged in any variety of ways. Every bit of evidence in both games points to Ellie getting put under and being oblivious of everything until awakening in the back of Joel's car.

So I don't see a contradiction. Ellie's judgement is made in hindsight, not the moment. Because circumstances didn't permit it and after that Joel hid the truth of what actually went down so she was powerless to change any part of it.

Except that Ellie in part II seems to have the attitude of "you should've let me die, even if no one asked me or you beforehand" while in part I it's not obvious that Ellie would just cut off Joel from her life without having a say in it first. Again, if there's anything in part I that shows she'd instantly leave Joel for any vaccine related reason, I'd like to see it.

I'm having a hard time believing that it would be in Ellie character to get Joel to see her as a new daughter, knowing that he lost a dear daughter before and abandon me at a moment's notice for the vaccine.

 

[DForce]

What two brothers? Sam and Henry? You TLOU2 fans don't help yourself, do you? The FIRST thing Joel did was try to kill the older one! Likewise, the FIRST thing Tommy did when he saw people rocking up to his damn was to line up a gun shot, only afterwards did he see it was his brother and some girl.

Compare this with TLOU2 Joel and Tommy who put themselves into a bad situation by trusting a stranger, and take it further by letting them know the location of their settlement, offer to give Abby's crew supplies, and also walked freely into a room where they're literally surrounded. Meanwhile Ellie is literally screwing around when it's supposed to be her patrol. These are not the same TLOU1 characters, and all their crap is to facilitate the situation of Joel's killing even being possible to happen. And then the rest of the game spends it's time LITERALLY retconning situations from how they were in reality in TLOU1, changing characters reasoning behind actions and trying to lead the player into believing what ND want to be true. Forget about the established facts from TLOU1, TLOU2 is "Neil's personal truth". No wonder Bruce Straley and 75% of the workforce left.

You guys repeat the same stuff it's ridiculous. lol


Joel was attacking Henry because Henry attacked Joel first. Even then, he was willing to go with Henry to his hideout.. A group of people whom he knew nothing about.

Secondly, Joel was forced to follow Abby because they were being chased. Just because he made this decision, that doesn't mean he trusted them.

You guys don't follow the story that well at all

 

[Clear]

I'm having a hard time believing that it would be in Ellie character to get Joel to see her as a new daughter, knowing that he lost a dear daughter before and abandon me at a moment's notice for the vaccine.

Why? Its not like she'd make the decision lightly (for no greater good). The premise is whether she'd lay down her life for a chance to save humanity or not.

Also, I don't believe she desires to be seen by Joel as a/his daughter, she mainly wants someone she can trust and rely on. And by lying to her, he betrays that.

 

[Alan Wake]

Don't want to be reminded of the biggest disappointment this generation.

 

[DForce]

It should come to no surprise that most of the haters have some of the worst interpretation of the TLOU story. It's also weird that they love to put their own spin on the story.

 

[turtlepowa]

Don't want to be reminded of the biggest disappointment this generation.

You misspelled GOTY.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Why? Its not like she'd make the decision lightly (for no greater good). The premise is whether she'd lay down her life for a chance to save humanity or not.

Also, I don't believe she desires to be seen by Joel as a/his daughter, she mainly wants someone she can trust and rely on. And by lying to her, he betrays that.

It's the abrupt nature I'm talking about, I can see her being OK with dying for the vaccine after she's informed of it and gets a chance to tie up any loose ends with Joel and anyone else first. If all that happened and Joel still went on a rampage then there's no doubt that Joel's in the wrong but as things happened in part I, there's enough justification for Joel to get Ellie back the way he did.

Her bond with Joel grows close and it's generally not in people's nature to be OK with abandoning people they grew close with at a moment's notice. Especially for someone like Ellie who knows of Joel's loss and knows how it feels to lose someone close.

Joel lying about it does make the situation worse and so is him leaving out all the context of her rescue and I feel that's the writers cheating a bit to cast some shade on Joel's rescue.

 

[docbot]

I wonder when they will announce a PS5 optimized Joel based DLC / shorter stand alone expansion ala Uncharted: The Lost Legacy.
It's so obvious this is coming

Grabbing a PS5 when this hits. This Game is so great. Only Game I've played that has some serious story telling

 

[Spaceman292]

None of those look like bodybuilders though

Why is it bad that she looks like a body builder?

 

[HotPocket69]

Since they got rid of one main character they introduced another which they push now.

Please understand, you bigot sandwiches

Fixed

 

[Clear]

Joel lying about it does make the situation worse and so is him leaving out all the context of her rescue and I feel that's the writers cheating a bit to cast some shade on Joel's rescue.

I dunno, for me it feels more like cheating when characters have a clear-eyed view of events and reactions they aren't there for. Subjectivity and the misunderstandings that arise as a result are key to demonstrating a plausible inner-life and thus character agency.

So again I feel strong in my belief that the characterization through-lines are consistent between the games, because in the final analysis the story is all about conflicting desires and purposes. Assumed moral justification is just the engine that facilitates and escalates the conflict.

 

[RJMacready73]

Maybe it’s because I’m a simple cunt but at no point in the game did I think any of the characters broke with how I would’ve expected them to react/act in any given situation, sure there where some long shots here and there but this is a fucking game afterall, not Lord of the Rings or the Sopranos so its bound by a few more rules.. i.e. it has to be fucking gamey! Dissecting every little piece of nuance is a complete waste of time if you don’t look at the whole picture.. i.e. it’s a fucking game and therefore plot hits, motives, actions etc all not only need to be tied to the overall story arc but they also need to fit within the current gameplay component, level, whatever.. both are intrinsically tied to one another so I cant wrap my head around people discussing one without mentioning the other especially when it comes to the whys and whatnots of a particular characters action within a particular gameplay section.



Like I said, I played it all the way through loving every single moment and not once was I brought out of the game by the actions of any of the characters… sure as shit screamed at the screen plenty of times mind, but that was more because i got fully swept up in the moment that only a developer like ND can elicit.

 

[Alan Wake]

I wonder when they will announce a PS5 optimized Joel based DLC / shorter stand alone expansion ala Uncharted: The Lost Legacy.
It's so obvious this is coming

Grabbing a PS5 when this hits. This Game is so great. Only Game I've played that has some serious story telling

Serious doesn't equal good, though.

 

[RedVIper]

Why is it bad that she looks like a body builder?

Because she sticks out like a sore thumb.

You're in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and this woman looks like she spends 10 hours a day at the gym, has access to steroids and eats a chicken for breakfast

 

[Kadayi]

When are they adding Stool DLC?

Because she sticks out like a sore thumb.

You're in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and this woman looks like she spends 10 hours a day at the gym, has access to steroids and eats a chicken for breakfast

That's crazy talk man. Surely Roids keep forever, just like Petrol.

 

[Spaceman292]

Because she sticks out like a sore thumb.

You're in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and this woman looks like she spends 10 hours a day at the gym, has access to steroids and eats a chicken for breakfast

Well, if you played the game you would have seen that two of those things are true. She lives in a football stadium and has a plentiful supply of food.

 

[EDMIX]

What two brothers? Sam and Henry?

ikr Joel would never trust strangers /s

You TLOU2 fans don't help yourself,

? I'm a fan of both games, as to why I was able to fucking reference those brothers in the first place. Sorry bud, but stop trying to desperately separate fans of the SERIES.

Joel and Tommy who put themselves into a bad situation by trusting a stranger,

Yet Joel and Ellie put themselves into a bad situation by trusting 2 strangers with the brothers.... you are simply fucking mad that its 2 examples that shows in a BAD SITUATION they will trust people.

75% of the workforce left.

Surrrrrrre. Thats been debunked to death.

Annnnd to the ignore you go. You are trying to spin this shit way too much. Doesn't matter why, he trusted strangers in both games.


DForce "Joel was attacking Henry because Henry attacked Joel first" Facts. They have to leave that part out, it doesn't fit their narrative. According to them, in the Last Of Us 2, its a stranger, in the last of us 1, the 2 brothers are LIFE LONG friends of Joel, thus not strangers.

RedVIper 'You're in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and this woman looks like she spends 10 hours a day at the gym, " You don't need to spend 10 hours a day to get solid gains and I'd argue being in a fucking zombie apocalypse would be the greatest fucking reason to even be at a gym, you know...to get strong so you don't fucking die? Why would you seek to be weak, no gains, strength etc?

"has access to steroids" Have seen zero evidence of this, but if all the other medicne in the game exist that is being used, could be a thing, but you don't need to have roids to have the gains she has, look at the first female bodybuilders, not only are they larger and have more solid gains then Abby, they existed in a time where steroids wasn't at thing yet.

"eats a chicken for breakfast" WLF's stadium has a whole ass farm. She has the cleanest source to organic protein. With all the books that might be at the stadium that used to be for coaches, players, nutritionist, dietitians etc, it would make complete sense that such a concept would still be understood as during the time of The Last Of Us 2, its simply not that removed from the old world in terms of people, as in people are alive that existed BEFORE the apocalypse.


So nothing you are saying is something that can't be in this situation, in fact I'd argue it would be MORE SO likely considering.....well its a zombie apocalypse. WLF would clearly train soldiers just like our military would (or to the best of their ability)

 

[HawarMiran]

ikr Joel would never trust strangers /s



? I'm a fan of both games, as to why I was able to fucking reference those brothers in the first place. Sorry bud, but stop trying to desperately separate fans of the SERIES.



Yet Joel and Ellie put themselves into a bad situation by trusting 2 strangers with the brothers.... you are simply fucking mad that its 2 examples that shows in a BAD SITUATION they will trust people.



Surrrrrrre. Thats been debunked to death.

Annnnd to the ignore you go. You are trying to spin this shit way too much. Doesn't matter why, he trusted strangers in both games.


DForce "Joel was attacking Henry because Henry attacked Joel first" Facts. They have to leave that part out, it doesn't fit their narrative. According to them, in the Last Of Us 2, its a stranger, in the last of us 1, the 2 brothers are LIFE LONG friends of Joel, thus not strangers.

And they forget to mention that they were pushed into that situation. They were chased by a hoard of infected. And when they arrived at Abbies place you could feel the tension in the air. Joel didn't trust them. I could feel that he felt threatened by that situation with all the strangers around him.

 

[Ataraxia]

Also, I don't believe she desires to be seen by Joel as a/his daughter, she mainly wants someone she can trust and rely on. And by lying to her, he betrays that.

Did you miss the chapter in the first game when she runs away because she found out Joel was going to have Tommy take her to the fireflies? She later confides in him that he was the only person in her life that cared about her. Even though it was the smart move to have her go with Tommy due to his connections to the fireflies she felt hurt that it wasn't Joel. She absolutely saw him as a father.

This is the biggest problem with the second game. Even if Ellie would have made the decision to sacrifice herself for the vaccine (as suggested at the end of the first game), she wouldn't have taken it out on Joel because he did what any father would have done. But because ND turned Ellie into a shitty person she forgets all that and treats him like shit until the moment he takes a shotgun blast to his knee and a golf club to the face.

 

[Concern]

Fuck that guy

 

[Vick]

Because I cannot comprehend what sort of cheeseball shit-show of a finale would have pleased these same Joel fanboys.

I don't know.. maybe anything other than "Let's replace Ellie and Joel with a woman (in a male body so we can keep Joel gameplay), and a trans child and make it work no matter how - THE Game".

People praising and defending this piece of utter trash which completely destroyed a company top tier, 35 years in the making legacy and reputation truly make me sick.

You want to talk about how awesome graphics, art, level design, AI, gameplay mechanics, acting etc. go ahead.
But please for the love of God have the decency and respect to not insult anyone intellect engaging in discussions with the intent of defending this disastrous trainwreck of narrative.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Haven't heard a peep out of Sony regarding the sales of TLOUP2 since it sold 4m at launch or whatever it was. Now, they show a story trailer which kind of ruins a lot of shit which in turn makes it worse. I will be shocked if TLOUP2 gets close to TLOU 2013.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Any word on a potential PS5 patch/remaster? Definitely want to play through this someday, but might as well wait at this point until there are PS5 upgrades.

 

[Moonjt9]

I don’t know, I really enjoyed the game and the story. I went into it not knowing anything from the leaks or anything, and it kept me gripped the whole time. And I ended up really liking a lot of the characters. It was a very emotional game, but even more than that, the gameplay was incredible. I thought it was one of the best games this gen.

 

[@gkTH]

So kind of spin off Abby incoming?
Hmm...

 

[RedVIper]

Well, if you played the game you would have seen that two of those things are true. She lives in a football stadium and has a plentiful supply of food.

Yeah, you clearly have no idea what it's required to maintain the body of a bodybuilder. "She played football" and has some good doesn't cut it.

 

[Statue of Limitation]

Joel knows not to get ambushed or trust strangers.

Tlou2 Joel didn't.

There’s a scene in Part 1 where Joel meets an armed stranger and follows him back to his hideout.

Joel gets ambushed by the Boston Military, by Bill in a snare trap, the Fireflies, a dude in a beanie, a dude in rags, and mostly importantly in the infamous ambush scene where he warns Ellie of an upcoming ambush and proceed to get ambushed.

 

[Statue of Limitation]

Yeah, you clearly have no idea what it's required to maintain the body of a bodybuilder. "She played football" and has some good doesn't cut it.

So the setting actually takes the time to establish a motive for her to get fit, food and equipment to train, shows various stages of development (including establishing she has a weight lifting record - not football...) and we the audience can easily infer that the WLF possibly the most well supplied group in the established lore would have access to a stockpile of supplements/performance enhancing drugs after they raid an entire city...

but you want to call that bad writing and get into dodgy bone structure talk?

Where you as angry about how Joel an ageing man with a normal body type was able to perform massive feats of strength through the waste land whilst eating Kit Kat’s?

 

[ZippyTheOtter]

So the setting actually takes the time to establish a motive for her to get fit, food and equipment to train, shows various stages of development (including establishing she has a weight lifting record - not football...) and we the audience can easily infer that the WLF possibly the most well supplied group in the established lore would have access to a stockpile of supplements/performance enhancing drugs after they raid an entire city...

but you want to call that bad writing and get into dodgy bone structure talk?

Where you as angry about how Joel an ageing man with a normal body type was able to perform massive feats of strength through the waste land whilst eating Kit Kat’s?

You're not going to make any headway on this board.

Despite them doing 3(?) years of flashback on Abbey getting ripped for revenge. Years of Ellie flashbacks showing her trust in Joel eroding up until the breaking point. Too much for people who are stuck on "golf swing".

 

[Raonak]

From beginning to end, the world of TLOU was morally ambiguous.

So it was a very cool to see what our hero's actions look like from an outsiders viewpoint.

Also, congrats to ND for making such a widely talked about game. It's loved and hated. But you won't know where you live until you finish it. It connects with people in one way or another.

Joel, Ellie and Abby are all great characters that make selfish, but human, decisions.

 

[Halo is Back]

Always great to see the same people defending and hating this game to death in every TOLU2 thread. The controversy surrounding it has been more entertaining than the game itself.