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[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

There's a reason why the planets most popular and loved games are all gameplay centric, and TLoU2, with all its accolades, production values, and budget has been largely irrelevant outside of its launch week.

So now we've shifted to "It's not an interactive game.... because it's not one of the biggest games in the industry"... wut??!?

Why have you fundamentally changed your argument? What are you even arguing now?

Gears of War is not one of the biggest games in the industry.

Halo is not one of the biggest games in the industry....

Neither is Metroid.

And?!?

What is the point you're trying to make with this?

There's a reason why it's limping over the 10 million mark. Its failure has forced Naughty Dog to restructuring their entire studio to make multiplayer + open world games moving forward.

Ok so now you're making shit up... this is hilariously desperate.

Choices are this mediums greatest strength.

Yes, hence why games like TLOU2 should exist for those gamers who like cinematic games. You clearly don't, but you also clearly don't speak for all gamers. Why is that hard for you to understand?

Trying to poorly Ape film and television, two mediums far better suited for watching - two mediums still filled with garbage, is a misunderstanding of what makes games special.

According to you.

Games like TLOU2 are fantastic games for people who enjoy those types of experiences. There are literally double-digit millions of them. Despite your attempted spin, that's not an insignificant player base size.... like at all.

The Last of Us 2 is ancient design that's going extinct for a reason. It's not very good.

We're still getting cinematic games. The Calisto Protocol is due out soon. There will be many many more of these types of games. Nothing is going extinct other than the factual validity of your posts in this thread.

 

[Ezquimacore]

Am I suppose to feel something? The Russo brothers are trash just like the writers of tlou2. The technical developers are the real artists in both sides.

 

[sol_bad]

There is no point to argue really, because we have a fundamental difference of opinion, but I will say this:

There is a reason they have been choosing young, indie directors to make most of their recent stuff. They are hungry for bigger work, good pay, they are young and probably easy to control. The reason Edgar Wright left is because he was frustrated by creative control limitations. On the other hand, Eternals, Shang-Chi and a few others basically have zero footprint left by their directors - I know that because I have seen their films. James Gunn is pretty much the only one who gets to make a MCU with all of his sensibilities intact. And that is where I want to get back to Russos. They don’t have a signature - they sort of, kind off got away with Winter Soldier being ok, because they were aping 70’s conspiracy thrillers, but the rest has no creative pulse at all. Just loud thrills to sell toys. I wish I shared your enthusiasm, but creatively MCU is at the bottom right now.

I'm stating facts, you're stating opinion based on nothing.

They have been choosing unknown directors since the beginning. John Favreau, Louise Leterrier, Joss Whedon, Alan Taylor and James Gunn were all fairly unknown when they were hired.

As for Edgar Wright, he had complete freedom way back in 2006 when the MCU was first being created. If he didn't walk away to make The World's End he would have made the film he wanted. Even Edgar Wright was an unknown back in 2006.

Have you seen The Gray Man? It feels like the Russo's MCU films. Iron Man 3 feels like a Shane Black movie. GOTG 1 and 2 feel like a James Gunn film, Ragnarok and L&T feel like a Taika film, MoM like a Raimi film, Eternals feels like a Zhao film, Black Panther feels like a Coogler film (Wakanda Forever even more so based on the trailer).
Etc etc.

And not every movie is going to have a "feel" for a director.

Destin Cretton's films have different looks and feels to them.
Cate Shortland's films Lore and Berlin Syndrome both feel different.
Even Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, Ridley Scott and James Cameron's films have various "feels" to them. They don't all contain unique signatures to each unique director.

*EDIT*
This is just where I'm up to in the book.

 

[balls of snow]

The cinematic complaints still ring hollow. That only applies to the intro and the short flashbacks. The game straight up has more combat and levels than Resident Evil 4. It is an extremely interactive experience. I completely understand hating the story or not liking the core gameplay, but I’ll never understand people pretending its just a Telltale-esque movie-game.

They never played it or watched the "movie" version on youtube. Transparent as hell really.

 

[Slicker than your average]

There's a reason why the planets most popular and loved games are all gameplay centric, and TLoU2, with all its accolades, production values, and budget has been largely irrelevant outside of its launch week.

There's a reason why it's limping over the 10 million mark. Its failure has forced Naughty Dog to restructuring their entire studio to make multiplayer + open world games moving forward.

Choices are this mediums greatest strength. Trying to poorly Ape film and television, two mediums far better suited for watching - two mediums still filled with garbage, is a misunderstanding of what makes games special.

The Last of Us 2 is ancient design that's going extinct for a reason. It's not very good.

Very weird take. I didn't particular think tlou2 was amazing but the gameplay was great and it had plenty of it.

These bizarre takes of having zero gameplay are either clowns haven't played it or the usual console war crap. Which is it?

 

[Bernardougf]

Thinking by themselves is the issue here. They didn't. They read forums like these and review bombed the hell out of it without even playing it. Many of the criticisms are valid but make no mistake the severity of these aren't as bad as many have made it out to be.

Sure there were some extremists review bombing for the fun of it and calling it the worst game ever.. as well as people giving 10s and saying it was the second come of jesus ... extremists comes from both sides

The severity of the issues or claims well this is subjective as one thing may bother me and break the game and the same issues can be perceived by you but just dont matter and dont impact your enjoyment of the game ...

As we are speaking of the Russo brothers, I love Infinity War, for me its a great movie because of the character development and etc, but I can see the movie has some big plot holes as well as contrivances ... they just dont take my enjoyment of the movie!

Peace

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

 

[Woggleman]

As much as I enjoy a good story in a game if the gameplay is not good then to me it is not a good game yet TLOU 2 is still one of my favorite games. It is actually proof that cinematics and great gameplay can happily coexist in a game. It is not just going through the motions to get to the next cutscene.

 

[March Climber]

Have you seen The Gray Man? It feels like the Russo's MCU films.

The Gray Man reminded me of fun PS3/360 third person shooters like Wanted, Dead to Rights, or Stranglehold.

Also mods you guys are hilarious.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

He probably hasn't played many games.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Some of you people still being antagonistic and disingenuous really need to start getting lives. Take your toxicity elsewhere. You are here to rile people up, not engage in a discussion.

 

[Roberts]

I'm stating facts, you're stating opinion based on nothing.

Lol, go and get some more facts from that PR fluff piece.

 

[sol_bad]

Lol, go and get some more facts from that PR fluff piece.

And where are you getting your "facts" from?

 

[GenericUser]

So the "russo brothers" don't know much about gaming then, ey? Got it!

 

[Alan Wake]

A technical achievement. Nothing more.

 

[ChiefDada]

There's a reason why it's limping over the 10 million mark. Its failure has forced Naughty Dog to restructuring their entire studio to make multiplayer + open world games moving forward.

Limping? It made its money back in ~3 days time. To put into context even you should be able to understand, at $60 a pop/ $240m+ gross, if TLOU 2 were a movie, it would be among top 5 US weekend box office of all time.

 

[rofif]

The cinematic complaints still ring hollow. That only applies to the intro and the short flashbacks. The game straight up has more combat and levels than Resident Evil 4. It is an extremely interactive experience. I completely understand hating the story or not liking the core gameplay, but I’ll never understand people pretending its just a Telltale-esque movie-game.

People say the same about uncharted games… especially uc4. The game has amazing cutscenes but it’s a 15h game with like hour and a half of cutscenes

 

[DForce]

There's a reason why the planets most popular and loved games are all gameplay centric, and TLoU2, with all its accolades, production values, and budget has been largely irrelevant outside of its launch week.

There's a reason why it's limping over the 10 million mark. Its failure has forced Naughty Dog to restructuring their entire studio to make multiplayer + open world games moving forward.

Choices are this mediums greatest strength. Trying to poorly Ape film and television, two mediums far better suited for watching - two mediums still filled with garbage, is a misunderstanding of what makes games special.

The Last of Us 2 is ancient design that's going extinct for a reason. It's not very good.

Let's take a look at the facts instead of some theories made by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

The Last of Us Part II made it to 10 million copies sold without a re-release no official bundles outside of the edition back in 2022.

God of War sold 5 million copies in 12 months, and the game received more than 5 bundles within the two-year mark. It wouldn't achieve 10 million sales in 12 months without it. Ghost of Tsushima recently announced 9.7 million units sold, but this game was in fact bundled and re-released for the PlayStation 5.

Last of Us Part II sold 10 million copies before the PlayStation 5 re-release AND the inevitable PC release. This can easily tack on millions of copies within when they're released, but somehow you believe Sony and Naughty Dog are concerned with the performance before this game hits platforms outside of the PS4. If the TV show is successful, then who knows what's going to happen with the sales?

The Last of Us Part II performance did not force Naughty Dog to restructure. This is some baseless theory you just created. What happened is that the Multiplayer was dropped MONTHS before the game actually released. Knowing that the multiplayer was going to slow down the development of The Last of US Part II, they dropped it and made it a standalone multiplayer game.


Sony wanted to get into the GaaS market for years and The Last of Part Multiplayer is their best bet.

So do you want them to tell me that this forced them to make a multiplayer game, even though it has been in development WELL BEFORE the Last of Us Part II released?

 

[rofif]

I am starting to think the people who dislike the game have still not really played it and go by the fake hype killing leaks before release.
Or are ultra stubborn assholes missing any signs of empathy.

 

[ZehDon]

People say the same about uncharted games… especially uc4. The game has amazing cutscenes but it’s a 15h game with like hour and a half of cutscenes

To be exact, it's 15 hours and has three and a half hours of cut-scenes. However, people are referring to the games in their totality, which - especially four - includes hours of forced walking and dialogue segments in addition to the rendered cut-scenes. It all gets chalked up to "cut scenes". Four in particular features good chunks where the player does basically nothing except listen to dialogue and hold down the control stick. For TLOUII, the game is 24 hours and has just four and a half hours of cut-scenes. However, like UC, people are referring to the game in its totality. TLOUII features long stretches of cut scenes, forced walking, scripted events both small and large, and long dialogue segments book-ending one another. It clearly has the effect of making the relatively smaller percentage of cut-scenes feel like a much larger percentage of the game because the player's meaningful interaction is so spread out. Whether or not that's a good or bad thing is up to you.

 

[rofif]

To be exact, it's 15 hours and has three and a half hours of cut-scenes. However, people are referring to the games in their totality, which - especially four - includes hours of forced walking and dialogue segments in addition to the rendered cut-scenes. It all gets chalked up to "cut scenes". Four in particular features good chunks where the player does basically nothing except listen to dialogue and hold down the control stick. For TLOUII, the game is 24 hours and has just four and a half hours of cut-scenes. However, like UC, people are referring to the game in its totality. TLOUII features long stretches of cut scenes, forced walking, scripted events both small and large, and long dialogue segments book-ending one another. It clearly has the effect of making the relatively smaller percentage of cut-scenes feel like a much larger percentage of the game because the player's meaningful interaction is so spread out. Whether or not that's a good or bad thing is up to you.

That's disingenuous with uc4.
The 3,5 hours include optional sit and talk and other interactive sections.
I am replaying it at least once a year and I love the story, I love the cutscenes. It's the big part of enjoyment for me but it is skippable for most part if you want.

 

[Banjo64]

People can talk shit on TLoU 2 but don’t bring Uncharted in to this One of the all time best.

 

[March Climber]

People can talk shit on TLoU 2 but don’t bring Uncharted in to this One of the all time best.

 

[Negotiator101]

Don't know about that but it probably has the best combat encounters I've ever played in an action game.

In terms of tension and atmosphere its unrivalled.

 

[Negotiator101]

People can talk shit on TLoU 2 but don’t bring Uncharted in to this One of the all time best.

Uncharted 4 let the series down IMHO although it's still a good game. I feel TLOU2 expanded and improved a lot of the ideas Naughty Dog used in UNCHARTED 4. In terms of design they're quite similar apart from being worlds apart in tone. Unfortunately Uncharted 4 came first and suffered because of it.

 

[kyussman]

Now ask Scorsese what he thinks.........

 

[Bernardougf]

WTF, we hate End Game now!

Endgame has sooooo many problems, the script is pure dogshit with more holes that swiss cheese, sure we are already engaged with the characters, especially the core ones, and the russo brothers ride on that wave to the end, I had fun but is not a good movie... civil war was a great movie with a much more tight script, infinity war was also a good movie but the care for the script was just not the same and was very flawed, Endgame was a mess , and Marvel just got worse from there. All good things must come to a end I guess...

 

[Roberts]

And where are you getting your "facts" from?

Did I ever call them facts? It is my opinion formed by experience and knowledge working in the film and advertising industry for the last 22 years.

 

[STARSBarry]

Come into a thread about how The Last of Us 2 is the greatest game ever made only to find people arguing over the marvel movies franchise instead of the directors views on TLOU2.

That is far more telling than what the OP linked about the franchise any day. Out of the two things people will naturally swing towards the more intresting

 

[sol_bad]

Did I ever call them facts? It is my opinion formed by experience and knowledge working in the film and advertising industry for the last 22 years.

If you work in the industry you should definitely have facts then.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Apparently your purpose is to ride in on your horse and defend it.

Not real cinema praises not real game, I just think it's fitting.

Nah, my purpose is to laugh at the emotionally damaged, as if anyone cares. I already made my feelings about the game known. I played it once… once… no desire to ever play it again.

Keep crying in every thread that it’s the worst game ever made tho.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

There's a reason why the planets most popular and loved games are all gameplay centric, and TLoU2, with all its accolades, production values, and budget has been largely irrelevant outside of its launch week.

There's a reason why it's limping over the 10 million mark. Its failure has forced Naughty Dog to restructuring their entire studio to make multiplayer + open world games moving forward.

Choices are this mediums greatest strength. Trying to poorly Ape film and television, two mediums far better suited for watching - two mediums still filled with garbage, is a misunderstanding of what makes games special.

The Last of Us 2 is ancient design that's going extinct for a reason. It's not very good.

The fanfiction, my god.
The game was printing money after a single weekend, you do know that?

The game was such a failure that Naughty Dog, Sony's most premium studio is 100% focused on that IP alone, lmao.

Also...Factions was already in production before TLOU2 released, you do know that right? They didn't change anything.

The restructuring of the studio has nothing to do with the IP but with how the company was crunching left and right for every game and bleeding talent after each project was over.

But nice read. I needed a good laugh.

 

[StateofMajora]

I played it once… once… no desire to ever play it again.

 

[mortal]

I didn't realize so many people valued the Russo brothers opinions on gaming. I'm surprised people on either side care.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Doesn't mean it was a bad game. The gameplay was great, the story was too depressing for my liking.

They accomplished what they set out to do.

I didn't realize so many people valued the Russo brothers opinions on gaming. I'm surprised people on either side care.

TLoU2 effect.

 

[StateofMajora]

Doesn't mean it was a bad game. The gameplay was great, the story was too depressing for my liking.

They did what they set out to do.

It's a bad game.

They set out to make politically charged shock porn, with mediocre tps gameplay and heavy cinematic flavor. Yeah, mission accomplished. The fact that you don't want to play it again says more than your butthurt.

I mean, if I think a game is good, I never say "boy I never want to play that again!" It would be like me beating breath of the wild, saying it's great, but yeah I never want to play it again. I don't want to play botw again, because it's bad. Not as bad as tlou 2 though

You can keep crying/projecting about it when I talk about the game, and no I won't shut up, because then what would YOU do with yourself on gaf

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I didn't realize so many people valued the Russo brothers opinions on gaming. I'm surprised people on either side care.

It's TLoU 2. People always care.
The game is that impactful!

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's a bad game.

They set out to make politically charged shock porn, with mediocre tps gameplay and heavy cinematic flavor. Yeah, mission accomplished. The fact that you don't want to play it again says more than your butthurt.

I mean, if I think a game is good, I never say "boy I never want to play that again!" It would be like me beating breath of the wild, saying it's great, but yeah I never want to play it again. I don't want to play botw again, because it's bad. Not as bad as tlou 2 though

You can keep crying/projecting about it when I talk about the game, and no I won't shut up, because then what would YOU do with yourself on gaf

I'm far from "butthurt", you little cunt. Keep going tho. Write more paragraphs about something you despise, instead of ignoring it.

 

[Woggleman]

I have played through the whole thing three times and would do it again. The first thing I did when I got my PS5 was replay the whole thing at 60 FPS.

 

[StateofMajora]

I'm far from "butthurt", you little cunt. Keep going tho. Write more paragraphs about something you despise, instead of ignoring it.

It's horrible, should have never been made.

On the flip side, what other game that hits so hard on the hyperbole charged and emotionally damaged emotions here on Gaf, that warrants a thread at least once or twice a week since it's announcement and launch...complete with the very same broken records and necro beaten horses?

I don't think some users would even have a purpose, then

Which should tell you all you need to know about what kind of game, and how bad the last of us 2 is.

My post was one sentence, then your sensitive ass came in to bitch about my post much more than my actual post.

Nah, you're being an absolute cry baby, over a game you don't even want to play.

Kick rocks Susan.

 

[DeepEnigma]

My post was one sentence, then your sensitive ass came in to bitch about my post much more than my actual post.

Nah, you're being an absolute cry baby, over a game you don't even want to play.

Kick rocks Susan.

Stunning and brave.

I'll see you in the next TLoU2 thread, since you're uncapable of ignoring that deep and regressed daddy issue.

 

[Topher]

It's a bad game.

They set out to make politically charged shock porn, with mediocre tps gameplay and heavy cinematic flavor. Yeah, mission accomplished. The fact that you don't want to play it again says more than your butthurt.

I mean, if I think a game is good, I never say "boy I never want to play that again!" It would be like me beating breath of the wild, saying it's great, but yeah I never want to play it again. I don't want to play botw again, because it's bad. Not as bad as tlou 2 though

You can keep crying/projecting about it when I talk about the game, and no I won't shut up, but then what would YOU do with yourself on gaf

If I think a game is bad then frankly I just put it out of my mind and move on. To DeepEnigma 's point, there have been plenty of movies that I thought were extremely good, well-made and yet so depressing that I had no desire to watch it again. I can see that with TLOU 2. There is a bid difference between that and the obsessive hate that is expressed for TLOU 2 on a daily basis two years after the game released.

It is fine if you don't like the game. Plenty of us do. But again, if someone doesn't like a game why continue talking about that game years after? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[StateofMajora]

Stunning and brave.

I'll see you in the next TLoU2 thread, since you're uncapable of ignoring that deep and regressed daddy issue.

I hope more and more tlou threads get made, so you go over the edge lol.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I hope more and more tlou threads get made, so you go over the edge lol.

There is no edge bro. I am barely in them, but you want to keep a back and forth going with your emotional damage over this product and hypocuntical projection.

But again, if someone doesn't like a game why continue talking about that game years after? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[StateofMajora]

If I think a game is bad then frankly I just put it out of my mind and move on. To DeepEnigma 's point, there have been plenty of movies that I thought were extremely good, well-made and yet so depressing that I had no desire to watch it again. I can see that with TLOU 2. There is a bid difference between that and the obsessive hate that is expressed for TLOU 2 on a daily basis two years after the game released.

It is fine if you don't like the game. Plenty of us do. But again, if someone doesn't like a game why continue talking about that game years after? Doesn't make any sense.

Nah. This thread was made, you don't see me making threads over it. You guys just don't like the criticism.

Why do I have to ignore the game, can't you just ignore the posts about it?

It's more than just a bad game. It's an industry shift towards cinematics, that has led to overall worse games, and even if you don't see that, you should understand that it's not just about tlou 2.

 

[StateofMajora]

There is no edge bro. I am barely in them, but you want to keep a back and forth going with your emotional damage over this product and hypocuntical projection.

I think you're about to cry. Speaking of products, you're doing good work for your daddy Sony.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think you're about to cry. Speaking of products, you're doing good work for your daddy Sony.

And just like that, we see the real reason you troll these threads.

 

[StateofMajora]

And just like that, we see the real reason you troll these threads.

You've been reduced to an avatar quote. After I just pissed on breath of the wild?

Get that therapy you keep projecting onto me though, Susan. If you're overweight you're probably hyperventilating right now.

Edit : here, have the last word you want so bad

 

[Topher]

Nah. This thread was made, you don't see me making threads over it. You guys just don't like the criticism.

Why do I have to ignore the game, can't you just ignore the posts about it?

It's more than just a bad game. It's an industry shift towards cinematics, that has led to overall worse games, and even if you don't see that, you should understand that it's not just about tlou 2.

Disagree with everything you said. This is not a thread criticizing TLOU 2. It is a thread praising TLOU 2. If anything "you guys" don't like the praise.

That you think TLOU 2 is a bad game and cinematics lead to worse games is your opinion. Fine though. Don't play cinematic games. There are plenty of non-cinematic games. In fact, the vast majority of games are not cinematic.

Again, why not just move on from a game you don't like?

 

[StateofMajora]

Disagree with everything you said. This is not a thread criticizing TLOU 2. It is a thread praising TLOU 2. If anything "you guys" don't like the praise.

That you think TLOU 2 is a bad game and cinematics lead to worse games is your opinion. Fine though. Don't play cinematic games. There are plenty of non-cinematic games. In fact, the vast majority of games are not cinematic.

Again, why not just move on from a game you don't like?

No I mean.if the thread was made about a game, people will talk about it. Wanting everything said to be positive is like wanting a safe space lol.

Nope, I can bitch all I want about cinematic trends in games. And you are free to ignore that, it's just as easy as me ignoring the game if I wanted to.

Whether you like them or not, the cinematic push is not enhancing the actual game part of games.