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The Last of Us 2 is "one of the greatest games ever made", according to The Russo Brothers

xBlueStonex

Member
Did anybody watch the video? Actual quote is, "It's one of the great games ever made, The Last of Us." He's referring to the franchise as a whole, not just 2 (which I can guarantee he's never actually played.)
 
I am sorry to say, but I haven't played those games so it is neither quite simple nor painfully obvious for me how all of that relates to it.

Ah, sorry. Let me better explain then. Drakengard and NieR, much like TLOU2 are very dark, depressing tales. Full of the worst of humanity, shocking revelations, and an air of constant oppression and misery.

However, TLOU2 feels like it is ”Try hard”, without realizing what makes a dark, depressing tale dark and depressing. It is very surface level in how it deals with its Themes.

To go a bit more in-depth, let’s compare NieR and TLOU2 in particular. Both are set in post-apocalyptic settings on Earth. Humanity is slowly being wiped out by some threat (whether it be Shades in NieR or Cordyceps in TLOU2). People are constantly fighting for survival and have regressed in technology, scope, and social dynamics. In TLOU2, Druckman paints everything as miserable. There is almost no levity, there is little fun, everyone is hateful, bigotted, mean spirited, and out for themselves. Revenge is all they can think of and characters that *used* to be three dimensional become two dimensional. While there *are* attempts to bring levity/attempt at normalcy, they are so short and forgettable that they have zero impact (the scenes on the farm, the aquarium, etc).

Meanwhile in NieR, Yoko Taro paints the world as bleak, but somewhat hopeful… initially. As you further get into the game, the darkness creeps in more and more. As you learn the revelations, you are hit *harder* because of how much you came to care about these characters, about the way the world now functions. It may not seem like I am explaining much, but if you truly did enjoy TLOU2, I HIGHLY suggest you play NieR: Replicant (the remake/remaster) as I genuinely don’t want to spoil anything in this game.
 

Chiggs

Member
Yup. If people will act this crazy from the pandemic, they would be complete savages in The Last Of Us type universe anyone thinking otherwise...they'd need to have some Mickey Mouse mindset or something lol

It's not so much that I don't think people wouldn't become monsters, it's just that I found Ellie's descent into darkness completely unbelievable and downright tawdry. Abbey's story is potentially more believable, but it still felt entirely "engineered."

There's a reason why the TLOU2 hasn't sold nearly as well as TLOU, despite it's deep discounts. If you'd like to think that's because people can't handle dark games or have a Mickey Mouse mindset, then you're doing so out of comfort alone.

The stark reality is that millions and millions of gamers were hyped out the wazoo for this game, and then somewhere around half of them were entirely let down by a plot which boils down to "REVENGE IS BAD!" and does so at the expense of characters we grew to love in part 1.

Cool, thanks Neil.
 
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Guilty_AI

Gold Member
Could you expand on that for me? I don't understand
In these types of story, character investment is a must. They must be interesting, believable and maybe sympathetic to a degree.

TLoU2 isn't very good at doing any of those. Maybe the dumb writing worked for some people, but right from the get go the cross-country revenge plot was already sounding too far-fetched to me. Then the majority of the cast just isn't interesting, be Dina with her terrible chemistry with Ellie, that other boring guy who composed the (lol) love triangle (lol), Abby's friends who are all just dicks with not much else to their names, or Abby's father whom the game goes to comically great lenghts at making him sympathetic to the player, ending up having the opposite effect instead.

What Trazyn the Infinite Trazyn the Infinite is also true. The lack of levity (at least on Ellie's campaign), and the fact a lot of it wouldn't even happen normally, doesn't make the story "mature", it makes her character 2 dimensional and hard to take seriously.
Are you really trying to tell me this 19 yo girl left the confortable life at her tribe to go on some long and dangerous journey just to avenge a father figure she hadn't even properly interacted with for years? This is not a believable behaviour, and when the characters aren't believable you start veering off into dark comedy territory rather than a story meant to be taken seriously.
 
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Clear

Member
Its really quite simple. Compare Drakengard or NieR, as a quick example, to TLOU2. The difference cannot be more painfully obvious.

These are very, very different works. Yoko's approach is pretty unique in that his whole philosophy proceeds from the base understanding that his characters exist within fictional worlds and are bound to behave in certain prescribed ways due to that.

The tension comes from getting the player to invest in their plight on a human level in spite of this.

ND's approach is a quest for cinematic naturalism taken to an extreme degree, which is why the gameplay is always kinda secondary to the presentation. To them games and movies are just vehicles for fiction, they aren't really playing with the form, just trading off the strengths of each in order to sell the drama in the story.

Yoko's stuff is all about playing with form and structure. Like a stand-up comic, he's all about getting the audience to react in the moment, often using surprise and sudden tonal shifts.

In simple terms, wholly different modes of storytelling. One's Hollywood, the other's not! Really not!
 
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These are very, very different works. Yoko's approach is pretty unique in that his whole philosophy proceeds from the base understanding that his characters exist within fictional worlds and are bound to behave in certain prescribed ways due to that.

The tension comes from getting the player to invest in their plight on a human level in spite of this.

ND's approach is a quest for cinematic naturalism taken to an extreme degree, which is why the gameplay is always kinda secondary to the presentation. To them games and movies are just vehicles for fiction, they aren't really playing with the form, just trading off the strengths of each in order to sell the drama in the story.

Yoko's stuff is all about playing with form and structure. Like a stand-up comic, he's all about getting the audience to react in the moment, often using surprise and sudden tonal shifts.

In simple terms, wholly different modes of storytelling. One's Hollywood, the other's not! Really not!

Yes, you are correct. One utilizes the medium to its full most while the other rips poorly from a medium it is better suited for. It is why I do hope Druckman is successful with the show as he clearly has no talent in making video games. He is better as a film/tv director.
 

Ellery

Member
Ah, sorry. Let me better explain then. Drakengard and NieR, much like TLOU2 are very dark, depressing tales. Full of the worst of humanity, shocking revelations, and an air of constant oppression and misery.

However, TLOU2 feels like it is ”Try hard”, without realizing what makes a dark, depressing tale dark and depressing. It is very surface level in how it deals with its Themes.

To go a bit more in-depth, let’s compare NieR and TLOU2 in particular. Both are set in post-apocalyptic settings on Earth. Humanity is slowly being wiped out by some threat (whether it be Shades in NieR or Cordyceps in TLOU2). People are constantly fighting for survival and have regressed in technology, scope, and social dynamics. In TLOU2, Druckman paints everything as miserable. There is almost no levity, there is little fun, everyone is hateful, bigotted, mean spirited, and out for themselves. Revenge is all they can think of and characters that *used* to be three dimensional become two dimensional. While there *are* attempts to bring levity/attempt at normalcy, they are so short and forgettable that they have zero impact (the scenes on the farm, the aquarium, etc).

Meanwhile in NieR, Yoko Taro paints the world as bleak, but somewhat hopeful… initially. As you further get into the game, the darkness creeps in more and more. As you learn the revelations, you are hit *harder* because of how much you came to care about these characters, about the way the world now functions. It may not seem like I am explaining much, but if you truly did enjoy TLOU2, I HIGHLY suggest you play NieR: Replicant (the remake/remaster) as I genuinely don’t want to spoil anything in this game.
In these types of story, character investment is a must. They must be interesting, believable and maybe sympathetic to a degree.

TLoU2 isn't very good at doing any of those. Maybe the dumb writing worked for some people, but right from the get go the cross-country revenge plot was already sounding too far-fetched to me. Then the majority of the cast just isn't interesting, be Dina with her terrible chemistry with Ellie, that other boring guy who composed the (lol) love triangle (lol), Abby's friends who are all just dicks with not much else to their names, or Abby's father whom the game goes to comically great lenghts at making him sympathetic to the player, ending up having the opposite effect instead.

What Trazyn the Infinite Trazyn the Infinite is also true. The lack of levity (at least on Ellie's campaign), and the fact a lot of it wouldn't even happen normally, doesn't make the story "mature", it makes her character 2 dimensional and hard to take seriously.
Are you really trying to tell me this 19 yo girl left the confortable life at her tribe to go on some long and dangerous journey just to avenge a father figure she hadn't even properly interacted with for years? This is not a believable behaviour, and when the characters aren't believable you start veering off into dark comedy territory rather than a story meant to be taken seriously.

yo thanks for explaining guys. it is always helpful to hear other peoples' opinions on what they like about certain games.

for me it is kinda different, because I like different things in different games and a whole lot of spectrum of dark variety games. What you described doesn't necessarily work for me, but lots of other stuff might. Doesn't mean I hate NieR or anything. Gotta try it out one day beyond the demo actually.
 
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DForce

Member
There's a reason why the TLOU2 hasn't sold nearly as well as TLOU, despite it's deep discounts. If you'd like to think that's because people can't handle dark games or have a Mickey Mouse mindset, then you're doing so out of comfort alone.

The stark reality is that millions and millions of gamers were hyped out the wazoo for this game, and then somewhere around half of them were entirely let down by a plot which boils down to "REVENGE IS BAD!" and does so at the expense of characters we grew to love in part 1.
The reason why is because the game was bundled for more than 4 years.

You're purposely ignoring the 20+ bundles this game received within the last 8 years. Of course, mentioning bundles wouldn't fit your narrative so you choose to ignore it. The fact is, The Last of Us wouldn't be anywhere near 20 million copies sold if it wasn't for bundles.
 

DForce

Member
Did anybody watch the video? Actual quote is, "It's one of the great games ever made, The Last of Us." He's referring to the franchise as a whole, not just 2 (which I can guarantee he's never actually played.)
People watched the video and can see that he was looking at the scene from The Last of Us Part II when he said that.
 

Chiggs

Member
The reason why is because the game was bundled for more than 4 years.

You're purposely ignoring the 20+ bundles this game received within the last 8 years. Of course, mentioning bundles wouldn't fit your narrative so you choose to ignore it. The fact is, The Last of Us wouldn't be anywhere near 20 million copies sold if it wasn't for bundles.

Are you purposely ignoring TLOU2's deep discounts, with the game being routinely priced at $19.99-$29.99? And at a time when the world was told to stay inside because of a raging pandemic, essentially forcing people to consume video games and binge-watch?

More than happy to take this up again in several years, so we can see whose narrative is truly forced.

I don't think you'll like the outcome.
 

DForce

Member
Are you purposely ignoring TLOU2's deep discounts, with the game being routinely priced at $19.99-$29.99? And at a time when the world was told to stay inside because of a raging pandemic, essentially forcing people to consume video games and binge-watch?

More than happy to take this up again in several years, so we can see whose narrative is truly forced.

I don't think you'll like the outcome.
Ignore? You don't seem to realize that this is common to reduce prices months after the game releases.

God of War launched on April 20, 2018.

The price permanently dropped to 39.99 by October 2018.

By September 27th, 2019, it was part of the greatest hits collection at $19.99


Spider-Man launched on September 7th, 2018. By February 2019, it dropped to $39.99.

By August, they released The Game of The Year Edition, which included the base game and all DLC for $39.99.



It's clear you're not familiar with price cuts otherwise you wouldn't mention it this much. Bundles help push units late in the game's life span. If you have 20, then it's going to boost sales by millions.

Uncharted 4 even accounted for more than 4 million in sales due to bundles in the US alone.
 

Chiggs

Member
It's clear you're not familiar with price cuts otherwise you wouldn't mention it this much. Bundles help push units late in the game's life span. If you have 20, then it's going to boost sales by millions.

Oh…well…uh, you got me there. Uh, great point.

*looks for the nearest exit*
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
TLOU2 haters are just secretly mad it’s a feminist lesbian game and coming up with excuses to justify their prejudice.
 

Clear

Member
Yes, you are correct. One utilizes the medium to its full most while the other rips poorly from a medium it is better suited for. It is why I do hope Druckman is successful with the show as he clearly has no talent in making video games. He is better as a film/tv director.

That's way too reductive. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with ND's "house style" as evidenced by the millions of copies they've sold and the many awards they've been nominated for/won over the years.

It might not be your cup of tea, but it's fine. And I think the gameplay in TLOU2 is probably their most refined iteration to date.
 
That's way too reductive. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with ND's "house style" as evidenced by the millions of copies they've sold and the many awards they've been nominated for/won over the years.

It might not be your cup of tea, but it's fine. And I think the gameplay in TLOU2 is probably their most refined iteration to date.

You are right that nothing is wrong with Naughty Dog’s style. Uncharted 1-3 were brilliant. 4? TLOU? TLOU2? All were far weaker by comparison as they do not take advantage of the medium and instead try to ape another‘s.
 

EDMIX

Member
I found Ellie's descent into darkness completely unbelievable and downright tawdry. Abbey's story is potentially more believable

I agree to a degree as Abby's father was killed so revenge is just, where Ellie losing Joel.....I mean she only known him for a few years at this point, but at 18....kids be doing some emo shit lol Who is to say someone in real life losing someone like that wouldn't go bat shit crazy looking for revenge or something? So I don't agree with her actions, but I find them believable as...kidz being doing dumb emo shit lol

The fact that she gets everyone tied into it to the point of lying to Jesse on why he got killed....she KNEW he got killed for something he did that was really, really bad, but she makes it seem as if thats not the case to have people selfishly behave like pawns to her to get to what she wants. This is a very, very believable teenage behavior.

There's a reason why the TLOU2 hasn't sold nearly as well as TLOU

Thats actually false, The Last Of Us 2 has reached 10 million units faster then the first game all with only 1 version on the market. So...I'm not sure where anyone is getting this from in regards to "hasn't sold nearly" when the first game has been ported to PS4 with a remaster and been on the market for 7 years or so when they gave that 20 million reveal.

Why would The Last Of Us 2 move 20 million units in 2 years or expected to?

Did the first game move 20 million units in 2 years? Thats like saying a Call Of Duty "hasn't sold nearly as well as" and its been 2 months on the market lol In order to know how it sold compared to Part 1, the metrics need to make sense.

Part 1 didn't move 10 million in 1 year, or 20 million in 2 years or any thing weird like this.

Factually....Part 2 is selling faster then part 1, with less versions on the market. Thats like telling me you know how well MW2 will do in 2 months compared to the last one that moved 30 million units, as if now suddenly THAT is the number expected in months on sale lol
I've never heard of units sold calculated like this and if you are going to compare them, you must compare how long they've been on the market.
then somewhere around half of them were entirely let down by a plot which boils down to "REVENGE IS BAD!

I disagree.

The fact that the game continued to sell and chart means most don't actually care. It would have just stopped at 4 million units when it launched...

So most don't give a shit, I haven't found any data to argue that feelings on Gaf is the majority lol Very unlikely.

Are you purposely ignoring TLOU2's deep discounts, with the game being routinely priced at $19.99-$29.99?

I mean...are you ignoring all that applied to The Last Of Us 1 too? Sony's games get discounted and go on sale....that isn't some insane brand new thing lol I don't see any evidence any of that has to do with how well a game is selling or not. The Last Of Us 1 went on sale within months, so did GTA V, so did Red Dead Redemption 2, funny enough every Battlefield went on sale without weeks of release. You learn all of this when you do deep dives and you'll see none of that is unusual and I find folks love to cherry pick those things to force a narrative.
Oh…well…uh, you got me there. Uh, great point.

*looks for the nearest exit*

lol at least your honest Chiggs.

This sounds like its some huge deal, until you start to look up how often all major titles go on sale. It has no relevance to some publishers if its a flop or not or something. Someone claimed that Watchdogs 3 being on sale was cause some flop, but looking at Watchdogs 1 and 2, I found both went on sale within weeks to months of release. They then told me Watchdogs 3 failed and didn't do as well as AC Valhalla and thats why its on sale....how about that game was on sale too lol . So its not as much as a smoking gun as many seem to think. With some publishers like Sony, Ubisoft, EA etc, a game going on sale would happen if the game did well, bad, mediocre. So I'm sure God Of War Ragnarok will break lots of records for Sony, but don't put on this doom and gloom when you see it on sale. Sony would put it on sale regardless lol
 

Chiggs

Member
This sounds like its some huge deal, until you start to look up how often all major titles go on sale. It has no relevance to some publishers if its a flop or not or something. Someone claimed that Watchdogs 3 being on sale was cause some flop, but looking at Watchdogs 1 and 2, I found both went on sale within weeks to months of release. They then told me Watchdogs 3 failed and didn't do as well as AC Valhalla and thats why its on sale....how about that game was on sale too lol . So its not as much as a smoking gun as many seem to think. With some publishers like Sony, Ubisoft, EA etc, a game going on sale would happen if the game did well, bad, mediocre. So I'm sure God Of War Ragnarok will break lots of records for Sony, but don't put on this doom and gloom when you see it on sale. Sony would put it on sale regardless lol

I've never once implied that TLOU2 is a flop. When you sell 10 million units, you're a hit, plain and simple.

But it won't reach the heights that TLOU reached, and people can hand waive, and talk like they're in the industry all they want, and spew factoids about bundles, but again: TLOU2 will never reach the sales figures achieved by its predecessor.

It just won't. You know it won't.

I realize that it's not strictly apples to apples, but I kind of get the sense some people want to really emphasize that so they can't be wrong, and they'd rather just pretend you can't compare the two games, which is ridiculous.

My perspective:
  • Both games came out at the end of their respective system's lifespan, and both were riding high on hype.
  • Now that the dust has settled, one game is universally loved, while the other is entirely divisive and not all of that is due to misogyny and homophobia.
    • Making this even more incredible is that TLOU2 has some of the best production values ever seen, with accessibility options through the roof, and it still managed to be divisive...a truly stunning achievement.
  • One game has been remade twice, and one of the releases will clock in at $69.99--and it will sell through the roof.
    • Gee, I wonder why that is?
If you can't look at those three bullet points and see my level of reasoning, I'm afraid we're in entirely different ballparks here.

I'd also like to note that TLOU2 defenders seem to deploy the old "I just think it's cool that a game like this sparks such varied discussion," and "look at just how much entertainment TLOU2 threads give us," like that's some sort of nod toward it's artistic achievement. But it's really not, seeing as how the threads generally end up being massively divisive (like the game) and end up with sales discussions, which TLOU2 will unlikely win, hence the creative reasoning and mental gymnastics our resident sales experts like to flaunt when they defend the game.

Again, more than happy to check in years from now when a TLOU2 Remake has been released. I greatly anticipate the excuses.

Edit: Ragnarok will mop the fucking floor with TLOU2.
 
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Stooky

Member
I've never once implied that TLOU2 is a flop. When you sell 10 million units, you're a hit, plain and simple.

But it won't reach the heights that TLOU reached, and people can hand waive, and talk like they're in the industry all they want, and spew factoids about bundles, but again: TLOU2 will never reach the sales figures achieved by its predecessor.

It just won't. You know it won't.

I realize that it's not strictly apples to apples, but I kind of get the sense some people want to really emphasize that so they can't be wrong, and they'd rather just pretend you can't compare the two games, which is ridiculous.

My perspective:
  • Both games came out at the end of their respective system's lifespan, and both were riding high on hype.
  • Now that the dust has settled, one game is universally loved, while the other is entirely divisive and not all of that is due to misogyny and homophobia.
    • Making this even more incredible is that TLOU2 has some of the best production values ever seen, with accessibility options through the roof, and it still managed to be divisive...a truly stunning achievement.
  • One game has been remade twice, and one of the releases will clock in at $69.99--and it will sell through the roof.
    • Gee, I wonder why that is?
If you can't look at those three bullet points and see my level of reasoning, I'm afraid we're in entirely different ballparks here.

I'd also like to note that TLOU2 defenders seem to deploy the old "I just think it's cool that a game like this sparks such varied discussion," and "look at just how much entertainment TLOU2 threads give us," like that's some sort of nod toward it's artistic achievement. But it's really not, seeing as how the threads generally end up being massively divisive (like the game) and end up with sales discussions, which TLOU2 will unlikely win, hence the creative reasoning and mental gymnastics our resident sales experts like to flaunt when they defend the game.

Again, more than happy to check in years from now when a TLOU2 Remake has been released. I greatly anticipate the excuses.

Edit: Ragnarok will mop the fucking floor with TLOU2.
I love the constant goal post moving for the success of TLOU2. Im sure when it surpasses TLOU sales you'll make up some other metric it has to fail at.
Brandon Scott Jones Ghosts GIF by CBS
 
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DForce

Member
I've never once implied that TLOU2 is a flop. When you sell 10 million units, you're a hit, plain and simple.

But it won't reach the heights that TLOU reached, and people can hand waive, and talk like they're in the industry all they want, and spew factoids about bundles, but again: TLOU2 will never reach the sales figures achieved by its predecessor.

It just won't. You know it won't.

I realize that it's not strictly apples to apples, but I kind of get the sense some people want to really emphasize that so they can't be wrong, and they'd rather just pretend you can't compare the two games, which is ridiculous.

My perspective:
  • Both games came out at the end of their respective system's lifespan, and both were riding high on hype.
  • Now that the dust has settled, one game is universally loved, while the other is entirely divisive and not all of that is due to misogyny and homophobia.
    • Making this even more incredible is that TLOU2 has some of the best production values ever seen, with accessibility options through the roof, and it still managed to be divisive...a truly stunning achievement.
  • One game has been remade twice, and one of the releases will clock in at $69.99--and it will sell through the roof.
    • Gee, I wonder why that is?
If you can't look at those three bullet points and see my level of reasoning, I'm afraid we're in entirely different ballparks here.

It's just hard for anyone to take your analysis seriously when it's completely flawed.

People shouldn't compare 10 million sales to 20 because it's not a fair comparison. The Last of Us has been out for longer and it became standard with PlayStation 4 consoles for years.

It's like how some people want to compare 20 million Halo Infinite players to The Last of Us, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Spider-Man. Also, it's unlikely that The Last of Us Remake will sell through the roof on PlayStation 5, unless the Last of US TV show generates a VERY LARGE and it gets a sales to boost in 2023.

This game will likely be bundled with The Last of Us Part II's Director's Cut with PlayStation 5 consoles in 2023. The game will eventually be released on PC, and that's how the game will reach 20 million in sales.
 

EDMIX

Member
But it won't reach the heights that TLOU reached

Its literally selling faster....

It just won't. You know it won't.

? I know its factually selling faster Chiggs. I don't know what else to tell you.

All we have with the objective data here is that in 2 years, it sold half of what Part 1 sold, faster, with less platforms.

What happens when its on PS5? PC? What happens when Part 3 is announced? So for this game to be at 10 million in 2 years is insane and for it to do that BEFORE a PC release, before a PS5 remaster and before a reveal of part 3 is even more crazy as it has a ridiculous amount of room to grow.

Part 1 literally sold more units on PS4, then on PS3.. which means more people bought it as a remaster, then the original game.

Who knows how much the show will also bring people into the fold into this series to continue sales.

I'm trying to add as much data to this to see where it might go, based on past titles vs this whole "IT WON'T, you KNOW IT" lol the fuck? come on Chiggs. Make a better point then this weird shit man.

Now that the dust has settled, one game is universally loved, while the other

But you don't know how the dust will "settle" with 2 years bud anymore then we did with Part 1 2 years in. Its not like we all knew it would move 20 million units lol

So..."while the other" needs time for the dust to settle. The game is still selling, has many versions still left to put out and a show not even out yet to be proclaiming what is settled or not 2 years in vs almost 10 years.

If you can't look at those three bullet points and see my level of reasoning

lol nah, that sounds like you are just triggered Chiggs..

One game has been remade twice, and one of the releases will clock in at $69.99--and it will sell through the roof.
  • Gee, I wonder why that is?

lol and? That has nothing to do with the last of us part 2......

Why would we remake Part 2 only 2 years in? Sooo you can't just compare something going to be 10 years old, to something 2 years old as for all you know during PS6's release, we get a remake of Part 2 and re-re-remake of part 1 lol foh Remaking part 1 doesn't have any evidence part 2 will magically stop selling faster then part 1. It sounds like fanfiction.

Edit: Ragnarok will mop the fucking floor with TLOU2.

and? What the fuck does that have with Part 2? You just sound upset, emotional and triggered and give responses that show your argument is more personal, then any real objective data. COD will MOP DA FLOWZ WIT PART 2 BBQLOZ /s and then you wonder why many of us might feel your argument isn't a logical sound thing?

Why would part 2 MATCH Part 1 in sales in 2 years? To sell what sold in 10 years, in 2 years is insane and highly unrealistic, thats like saying GTA VI will move 150 million units...IN 2 YEARS, and at the 2 year mark if its at "only" 70 million

be like "woooooowo FLOPZ, looks like its not as loved as GTAV, the dust settled everyone, it won't sell more AND YOU KNOW IT!!!!!, omg GTA V has been remade 45 times, and one of the releases will clock in at $89.99--and it will sell through the roof....I WONDER WHY? THATS WHY GTAVI will stop selling everyone, it WON'T match GTAV sales...EVERZ"

If GTA VI sold 70 million in 2 years, on 1 platform...BEFORE its ports and remasters...does the logical answer really sound like it flopped and wil magically stop selling orrrr? Imagine you are saying this about The Last Of Us 2 sir, its moving faster then part 1, the rest of what you are saying is a wish, a hope or something, not any relevant data to go off of to pretend it will magically stop at 10 mill.


I was told it was going to stop at 4 million..remember that fanfiction? I mean its only selling cause those day 1s, after day see the storiez, they'll stop /s yet here we are lol
 
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EDMIX

Member
Couldn’t possibly just.. not like the game..?

Edit: Most deserved Ban EVER done. Kudos to the mods.

lol I don't disagree with you. I feel many simply don't like the game, but I do feel a small minority simply have an issue with the characters sexual preference. I remember reading someone saying Part 2 um "turned her gay" and its as if they never played part 1 or simply don't care.

Stuff like that makes me question any review being made by them in the first place. So I can never say its the majority, but a small minority do indeed exist that simply dislike the game based on that, but they've always existed tbh. Like with Far Cry 5, I remember reading those review bombs and a massive chunk of the zero had bible quotes or some political issue or something like this.

The comments I read from people on facebook is even more nuts as lots of users from the middle east had issues with playing a female in general as some secret agenda and would be quoting all sorts of religious works lol But its moot, someone like that has always existed and I can't just say all critiques of this game is based on that.
 
I completely disagree this is not a situation where it makes sense to have player agency like some choice to choose a specific path because the way The Last of Us was created was never designed for that purpose because it has an exact set story

The only area with player agency that I believe should always remain as simply in the gameplay in terms of how you tackle a mission or how you kill an enemy or something like that but because this is a linear experience it would be completely stupid to have some bizarre player agency where they're deciding key moments in the game story

Using this logic many players never even kill the doctor and it's very obvious that narrative needs to occur because there is no choice in the matter.... you're only experiencing it for dramatic purposes but in the ending of the first game they make it pretty clear that Joel's choices are his own and the player does not control the major decisions that occur inside of the game for the sake of actually telling a fucking narrative that makes sense.


So maybe you have a better argument with something like Red Dead Redemption 2 where in my opinion that is the type of game in which they're probably should have been more open player agency because the very things they're saying his character is in regards to a bank robber could easily be Illustrated in the game so there is a massive flaw to not have banks in the game to allow you to freely Rob because it makes sense to what that narrative is. Even further Arthur Morgan's character based on the story is trying to sell you he is like this or like that but by allowing you to freely murder citizens you could have this weird thing where the thing they're trying to tell you about the character doesn't fit the things he does in his everyday life


So I think having a free agency for the player to do something make sense and something like Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption

Having it in something like a linear game like the last of us or dead space or Uncharted or something like that is silly because there is an exact specific narrative that's being told in which the players actons can contradict something

So tell us why it's a flaw and how it would make sense instead of just telling us "it's a flaw doe" with these weird one-liners because it sounds like you want to just be right by saying something instead of actually really giving a valid point.
EGG ZACK LEEEEE!
 

BreakOut

Member
lol I don't disagree with you. I feel many simply don't like the game, but I do feel a small minority simply have an issue with the characters sexual preference. I remember reading someone saying Part 2 um "turned her gay" and its as if they never played part 1 or simply don't care.

Stuff like that makes me question any review being made by them in the first place. So I can never say its the majority, but a small minority do indeed exist that simply dislike the game based on that, but they've always existed tbh. Like with Far Cry 5, I remember reading those review bombs and a massive chunk of the zero had bible quotes or some political issue or something like this.

The comments I read from people on facebook is even more nuts as lots of users from the middle east had issues with playing a female in general as some secret agenda and would be quoting all sorts of religious works lol But its moot, someone like that has always existed and I can't just say all critiques of this game is based on that.
I have no doubt some people don’t like she’s a gay character. But because I can’t know someone’s heart I really can’t pass that judgment on whether that why they don’t like the game. The moment I accuse someone of being against a game (or anything) because they are homophobic then I’m acting in the same way I am claiming to be against. Just making judgments without really knowing.
All said and done though, I just bought it again on disk for $20 bucks. I never actually finished it because my brother took the game back before I could.
 

EDMIX

Member
I have no doubt some people don’t like she’s a gay character. But because I can’t know someone’s heart I really can’t pass that judgment on whether that why they don’t like the game. The moment I accuse someone of being against a game (or anything) because they are homophobic then I’m acting in the same way I am claiming to be against. Just making judgments without really knowing.
All said and done though, I just bought it again on disk for $20 bucks. I never actually finished it because my brother took the game back before I could.

Facts. Thats how I see this whole thing.

Unless they say so, I can't just claim they don't like it for this reason or not or like it cause this that and the 3rd or something.

All I can do is accept that someone might like it for a valid reason, someone might hate it for a valid reason, someone might like it for a fake reason just as someone might hate it for a fake reason. Its hard to tell with someone like that and I don't think anyone should just assume any dislike of the game is for some secret reason other then a genuine disagreeance on the title.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Anyone remember Jesse. You know the male minority character sacrifice, who's not mentioned again after his death so it can be set up that two mothers raise a mixed race baby. Its the modern progressive dream.

A few of the big story moments in the game can be dissected in such a way and so it leads me to conclude that rather than a masterpiece, it's a game that's masquerades as have a deep story about the human condition, when really a lot of it is just modern Hollywood hot piss.
 

EDMIX

Member
who's not mentioned again after his death
? Thats false, he is mentioned many times following his death.
it can be set up that two mothers raise a mixed race baby.
In the end, Dina leaves so its not 2 people raising the baby.....

You ignored a lot of that to argue this

progressive dream.

theory lol

A dream is having many friends die, love of your life leaving you and feeling empty inside? lol I mean shit, I'd agree with you if the game actually ended in some happy go lucky way with everyone getting what they want, but it actually doesn't.
 
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DForce

Member
Anyone remember Jesse. You know the male minority character sacrifice, who's not mentioned again after his death so it can be set up that two mothers raise a mixed race baby. Its the modern progressive dream.

A few of the big story moments in the game can be dissected in such a way and so it leads me to conclude that rather than a masterpiece, it's a game that's masquerades as have a deep story about the human condition, when really a lot of it is just modern Hollywood hot piss.

I don't know how Dina talks so easily about Jesse. She tells JJ all about him. She thinks it'd be good for me to talk about Joel. To get it out. When she says that it makes the memories sound like food posioning. I don't want to talk about it. It's just gonna hurt. And I think Once I'd start I wouldn't be able to stop.

Jesse's parents came out today. It was nice at first. They're good people. But then they started pushing for us to move back to Jackson. I couldn't handle it and left for the woods. I didn't come back until late at night. Dina stayed up for Me. I could tell she was mad, but she grabbed my hand and led me to bed. I feel so guilty.

My dear Dina,

Thank you for your letter and the photograph. J.J's gotten so big already! He's got Jesse's smile. If he's anything like his dad... well, good luck.

[....]
I appreciate the tender words in your letter. I will say what I hope is obvious, Jesse wouldn't blame you for what happened, and neither do any of us. We love you.

Ellie - "I don't plan on dying."
Dina - "Yeah, well, neither did Jesse. Or Joel."
 

Midnight Bliss

Gold Member
The last of us is a really good dude, it has guy and girl. Sometimes there is sex. A very human game for a very human struggle. Just like pandemic wow. 10/10 grrrrreat game. 🙂👍👍👍
 

Topher

Gold Member
Anyone remember Jesse. You know the male minority character sacrifice, who's not mentioned again after his death so it can be set up that two mothers raise a mixed race baby. Its the modern progressive dream.

So if they had made Jesse white and Ellie a dude.......all is well then?

It is becoming increasingly clear that a lot of hate being spewed towards TLOU 2 is due to nothing more than being extremely sensitive to sociopolitical bullshit. Same kind of nonsense from people who criticized Witcher 3 because it was too white. Two sides of the same damn coin. Take a look at the "progressives" take on it in Polygon's review of Witcher 3:

"Also, while I did not by any means see every city, burg and outpost in The Witcher 3's world in my 70+ hours spent within it, I don't recall a single non-white humanoid anywhere — not in Skellige, Novograd, Oxenfurt or anywhere else. Once I realized this I couldn't stop looking for any example of a person of color anywhere, and I never found it..."

It is the exact same mindset. It isn't really that hard to believe that some people who are hyper-race/sexuality-aware like this let this crap bother them and want everyone else to be bothered as well. I'm not suggesting that all TLOU 2 critics are like this, but there is obviously a loud segment that is.
 

Lognor

Banned
Aren't these the guys that just made that shitty Netflix movie? Why is this thread seven pages long?

Maybe we should just make a thread about celebrities talking about video games. I'm sure you would get a ton of different opinions. Russo Brothers don't rank very highly in the celeb realm, especially after this Netflix bomb. I read it only stayed at number 1 for a few days. And it cost $200m I think. LOL, what a joke!
 

Lognor

Banned
Aren't you that guy that keeps getting banned for being a warrior?
I am. Why? Does my post warrant a ban? It's all true.

Looks like we got a big Russo bros fan in the thread! How dare anyone talk about their Netflix bomb!
 

Topher

Gold Member
I am. Why? Does my post warrant a ban? It's all true.

Looks like we got a big Russo bros fan in the thread! How dare anyone talk about their Netflix bomb!

I didn't say anything about the Russos, now did I? Just now seeing this....



Cracking Up Lol GIF by HULU
Season 2 Reaction GIF by Insecure on HBO
Happy Big Brother GIF by MOODMAN
 

Topher

Gold Member
No, but you tried to deflect from my true statement. Sounded like you were protecting your boys.

Nope. Just throwing your own argument back at you. Stop being a console warrior and it wouldn't be so easy to do.

Fact is even the best Hollywood directors have movies that bombed.
 

Lognor

Banned
Nope. Just throwing your own argument back at you. Stop being a console warrior and it wouldn't be so easy to do.

Fact is even the best Hollywood directors have movies that bombed.
I was just questioning why there is a 7 page thread about the Russo Brothers and their favorite game. You're the one that took my comments personally
 

Topher

Gold Member
I was just questioning why there is a 7 page thread about the Russo Brothers and their favorite game. You're the one that took my comments personally

Now you are just lying to yourself. You came here to dismiss anything positive they had to say because their latest movie bombed.
 
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