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The Flash is Rumored to Erase the SnyderVerse

Evil YT grifter chimes in


The runtime is the least of its problems, if you securitize Superman's decisions it becomes clear he has a lot of blood(and even genocide) on his hands, things that damage his character and that can't be explained away with "it was his first day on the job".
Is that a reason to replace Superman? Can’t they just make a better Superman movie?
 
I am fine with the female characters being involved, of course, but, if this is going to start getting in to a whole “girl power” bullshit….cringe. I feel like a lot of directions are taken just to fulfill the current woke type shit. I hate girl power.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
I don't think it's in the DCEU. It's in a different universe... Like the ValZod Superman (based on the comics, btw) that Michael B Jordan is producing.

The Val Zod project actually sounds really interesting. A HBO Max series based on the comics run. Could be great.

Fuck knows what they're actually doing with Superman, though. I guess we're still getting the black Superman thing... although christ knows whey they feel they have to do that, given that the Val Zod project now exists.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
So the ezra miller flash, the worse, cringier part of the dc universe is gonna survive but everything else is gonna be rebooted?!



 

ManaByte

Gold Member
So the ezra miller flash, the worse, cringier part of the dc universe is gonna survive but everything else is gonna be rebooted?!



Choke-slamming fans aside, Ezra Miller is fine as Barry Allen. He just hasn’t been handled that well in the movies so far.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
The Val Zod project actually sounds really interesting. A HBO Max series based on the comics run. Could be great.

Fuck knows what they're actually doing with Superman, though. I guess we're still getting the black Superman thing... although christ knows whey they feel they have to do that, given that the Val Zod project now exists.

JJ doesn't seem interested in actual comic lore or characters... Unlike Jordan who IS a comics and Manga fan.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Choke-slamming fans aside, Ezra Miller is fine as Barry Allen. He just hasn’t been handled that well in the movies so far.
As fine as a hit to the testicles with a blunt weapon, sure.

There was absolutely nothing positive in his flash, he was cringe personified, i had physical pain everytime he was on screen.

Even the cw flash is better...
 
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FunkMiller

Gold Member
They have the perfect setup for Batman Beyond, having Michael Keaton reprise his role and be a mentor to Terry. But nah, let's waste him on this instead.

Here's how the conversation went:

"Oh fuck! What the hell are we going to do with the DCEU now?"

"Nostalgia! We'll bring back a load of the old stuff people actually loved! Start again with that! That'll fix it!"

"How about Christian Bale as Batman again?"

"He'll never agree!"

"Michael Keaton? He's old and will love the fat pay check!"

"Yay!"
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Here's how the conversation went:

"Oh fuck! What the hell are we going to do with the DCEU now?"

"Nostalgia! We'll bring back a load of the old stuff people actually loved! Start again with that! That'll fix it!"

"How about Christian Bale as Batman again?"

"He'll never agree!"

"Michael Keaton? He's old and will love the fat pay check!"

"Yay!"

You joke but Bale was the backup plan if Keaton wouldn't sign on.
 

SafeOrAlone

Member
Even though I have a very hard time imagining Bale's Batman working in a film like this, I still feel a little surprised we didn't hear more about them trying to get him in. Keaton is certainly loved as Batman, but The Dark Knight films are arguably the most successful comic adaptions WB has ever made. With such a rich legacy, you think they'd be all over getting Bale to return.

Personally, I'd feel quite cautious about it working at all, but can't deny I'd be excited to see that version of Batman again.

The film itself be damned, can you imagine a trailer shot from behind Bale's Batman, roaring down the street on his bike, reminiscent of The Dark Knight? Most of us would crap bricks.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member

Ezra himself reportedly debunks Snyderverse erasure.

That's not what he said though, but clickbait gonna clickbait. The movies are still going to exist. WB isn't going to be deleting people's digital copies and confiscating the Blu-Rays, but will they be canon to the ongoing movies? According to people who HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN THE FLASH, they aren't.
 
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OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
You joke but Bale was the backup plan if Keaton wouldn't sign on.
I'm glad Keaton won out. He fits the elder mentor role much better for obvious age reasons. He's also got more charisma than Bale. Not to mention Keaton has really turned it up acting-wise for a long time now. I'm stoked to see him in the Bat-suit again.
 

plushyp

Gold Member
Oh joy, can't wait to see scenes of geriatric Batman throw his back after doing kung-fu with his walking batstick.
 

Great Hair

Banned
I only enjoyed Nolan´s The Dark Knight. Ever since, the movies were all mediocre, bad popcorn movies with terrible cast [iris elba ... ]. Absolutely no one wants to see an origin film of Cyborg, The Flash and many other terrible DC characters.

The tv show output is way better. They should make more tv shows, no more films unless they´re made by Nolan, Villeneneuve, Lynch, Quentin, Waititi, The Russo Brothers, Wes A., Kathryn Bigelow, Alfonso Cuarón or James Gunn ...
 

AmuroChan

Member
I don't see why there's any need to erase anything when the whole point of the multiverse is to allow for an infinite number of timelines to exist. It's amazing to me how much WB has screwed this up. They tried to copy Marvel, but the only thing they really needed to copy was to find their own Kevin Feige and put him in charge. Instead they have a bunch of suits in charge who know nothing about comic books.
 
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sol_bad

Gold Member
I don't see why there's any need to erase anything when the whole point of the multiverse is to allow for an infinite number of timelines to exist. It's amazing to me how much WB has screwed this up. They tried to copy Marvel, but the only thing they really needed to copy was to find their own Kevin Feige and put him in charge. Instead they have a bunch of suits in charge who know nothing about comic books.

I agree with this, not sure I believe this rumour.
They have the Joker and the Batman film that are basically alternate realities. They could just make more movies that are basically reboots.
Also, there isn't much to "erase" from the Snyderverse, the universes story could just continue on. Unless they want to do another Superman story about Zod or Doomsday again, it makes zero sense.
 
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jakinov

Member
Some comments:

  • Nobody wants to touch Cavil's Superman, they had talks with multiple directors and they either wanted to do something completely different or rejected the offer. James Gunn was offered Superman was rejected. Mission Impossible guy implied either his Superman was too different from the comics or would stray too far from the contunity that WB wouldn't allow it. Either way, it's not the Man of Steel 2 people wanted. JJ Abrams was given Superman, but he ended up doing an elseworlds Superman instead with his production company. Cavil is also expensive and busy now which is another factor that makes everything even harder.
  • Ben Affleck does not want to be Batman anymore he quit. Not sure whyn people complaining they aren't using him anymore. For the longest time Affleck's brother kept candidly telling people in interviews that his brother doesn't like doing it and he said recently he giving up on IP movies altogether.
  • In regards to Batman, Snyder already decided to make him an old damaged experienced Batman which makes it harder going forward to write stories for the character. Everything will have to be prequels. If we kept doing what Snyder wanted he'd be banging Lois Lane before Superman came back to life and Batman would have died anyways but would have been replaced by Jon Kent as Batman (Superman's son). Which isn't any better than old Batman helping a young batgirl help out gotham.
  • The actor for Cyborg is a dick head so that's why he's out. He had a chance to stay on the movie.
  • Snyder's Justice League is not Snyder's original vision either so for anyone using that as a basis for what if WB did nothing. It's shit. Snyder said himself his version was darker and scarier. Snyder's Justice League is the written movie when BVS was hated.



DC is still stuck in the mess they created whilst Marvel is moving on to phase 4 of their movie universe. What a damn shame and a waste of time that was.

So now Man of Steel, Batman vs Superman and Justice League are no longer canon, but Aquaman, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 1984, Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey and The Suicide Squad, which are all part of said same universe, are still canon?

Meanwhile Joker and The Batman are standalone movies, whilst Aquaman 2 and Shazam 2 are still technically connected to the Snyderverse and are still coming out?

Is anyone else as confused as I am?
technically it's still canon, they just don't matter though going forward. Joker and The Batman are just elseworld stories and were announced as such when first revealed. Aquaman 2 and Shazam 2 will still be canon. Every movie is still canon. The only difference is in the main universe they rewrote history/reality so that you don't need to know anything about the previous movies going forward. It's a cheap way to reboot the universe without actually rebooting it by rewritting history. But like in the comics, they rewrote history as part of a story plot point (which they did like 3 times in the comics). Another way to look at it is, The Flash will "butterfly-effect" the world to retcon a bunch of things.

The Marvel equivalent using the Spiderman No Way Home trailer wish as an example of wishing nobody knew he was Spider-man; that he instead wished what if Thanos never existed or something (the specific example doesn't matter much) and the world is now changed so that thanos never existed. History is now differnet in the universe. Guardians of The Galaxy and Infinity WAr did happen but not in the history of the current new modified universe but Spiderman knows it happened before he changed things. But going forward you don't need to know that Thanos killed Gamora in Infinity War because Thanos never existed. You don't need to know that Starlord defeated Roman the Accuser because it didn't happen. The two people died didn't die because again Thanos never existed.

They really think people will give a shit about Supergirl and Batgirl when no one even cared about their Harley films? :lollipop_grinning_smiling_eyes:
They would if the movie is good and/or trailers show a lot of action. People just like action movies. The characters don't matter as much if you want to make big money. There's been one Harley film and it did ok critically and barely had any action in the trailers. It just looked like a silly movie; covid also didn't help. Suicide Squad and Venom for example reviewed poorly but the trailers got people still going out to go see it just from the action-packed marketing. It's espcially true overseas for some really flashy movies like if you look at Aquaman which reviewed ok and wasn't really getting much hype, people don't really care about Aquaman or Momoa and it grossed $1.1B worldwide
 

AmuroChan

Member
They would if the movie is good and/or trailers show a lot of action. People just like action movies. The characters don't matter as much if you want to make big money. There's been one Harley film and it did ok critically and barely had any action in the trailers. It just looked like a silly movie; covid also didn't help. Suicide Squad and Venom for example reviewed poorly but the trailers got people still going out to go see it just from the action-packed marketing. It's espcially true overseas for some really flashy movies like if you look at Aquaman which reviewed ok and wasn't really getting much hype, people don't really care about Aquaman or Momoa and it grossed $1.1B worldwide

James Gunn's Suicide Squad did not review poorly. Currently sits at 90% on RT and 82% audience score. Venom made money because the movie wasn't total trash and he's a well known character. Supergirl and Batgirl aren't going to have that same draw. I don't care how good the movies are. There have been good Batgirl and Supergirl comics before, and they never sold anywhere as well as even the mediocre Superman and Batman comics.
 

jakinov

Member
James Gunn's Suicide Squad did not review poorly. Currently sits at 90% on RT and 82% audience score. Venom made money because the movie wasn't total trash and he's a well known character. Supergirl and Batgirl aren't going to have that same draw. I don't care how good the movies are. There have been good Batgirl and Supergirl comics before, and they never sold anywhere as well as even the mediocre Superman and Batman comics.
The suicide squad came out on HBO max the same day it hit theatres at no extra cost, it was also rated R and released during pandemic.

Venom looked like a cool “super hero” movie and people will ignore the reviews if they think it’s cool enough hence why movies like the transformers movies sell well despite getting shit on.

Who cares how well comics do. People will see a big action movie if it looks cool or gets praise or hype. It’s not the comic buyers who will represent most of the viewers it’s a bunch of casuals.

They are still making Batman and Superman movies either way.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
The suicide squad came out on HBO max the same day it hit theatres at no extra cost, it was also rated R and released during pandemic.

Venom looked like a cool “super hero” movie and people will ignore the reviews if they think it’s cool enough hence why movies like the transformers movies sell well despite getting shit on.

Who cares how well comics do. People will see a big action movie if it looks cool or gets praise or hype. It’s not the comic buyers who will represent most of the viewers it’s a bunch of casuals.

They are still making Batman and Superman movies either way.

You're right. This is true. I forgot this.
 

AmuroChan

Member
The suicide squad came out on HBO max the same day it hit theatres at no extra cost, it was also rated R and released during pandemic.

Venom looked like a cool “super hero” movie and people will ignore the reviews if they think it’s cool enough hence why movies like the transformers movies sell well despite getting shit on.

Who cares how well comics do. People will see a big action movie if it looks cool or gets praise or hype. It’s not the comic buyers who will represent most of the viewers it’s a bunch of casuals.

They are still making Batman and Superman movies either way.

Great, except WB can't even make a good Superman movie. All of a sudden people think they can make a good Batgirl and Supergirl movie that's going to be huge at the boxoffice? I remain skeptical until they can prove otherwise. Their track record is suspect at best.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
Great, except WB can't even make a good Superman movie.

To be fair, they made Man of Steel with a gun to their head. The reason why Snyder got the job in the first place was because WB was being forced to get a new Superman movie into production by 2011 otherwise they would face a lawsuit by the heirs:


“The Court pointedly ruled that if Warner Bros. does not start production on another Superman film by 2011, the Siegels will be able to sue to recover their damages,” Toberoff added
 

kuncol02

Member
Oh it gets even better.

WB really wants JJ Abrams to direct the Justice League Rebirth movie (Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Shazam, Supergirl, Batgirl, Black Canary) with the writer of Birds of Prey and The Flash to write it.
Mad World Reaction GIF by CBS


How the fuck this hack fraud is still getting new IPs to destroy?
 

AmuroChan

Member
To be fair, they made Man of Steel with a gun to their head. The reason why Snyder got the job in the first place was because WB was being forced to get a new Superman movie into production by 2011 otherwise they would face a lawsuit by the heirs:


I think MoS was fine. Not a terrible movie by any means, but certainly not a great movie either. My point was more that WB's track record with all their DC movies have been inconsistent to say the least. And I disagree with the other poster that fans are clamoring for solo Batgirl and Supergirl solo films.
 

KyoZz

Gold Member
Everyone needs to remember what was planned, and that's without counting most likely movies like Batfleck vs Deathstroke or The New Gods:



BvS might not made a billion but it was still a 870+ million dollar movie, WB should have stuck to the plan and waited for more movies to be released before making such drastic decisions. ZSJL is the proof they needed to wait.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
I don't think it was really the reception to BvS that scared WB off, more the idea of Darksied boom tubing into the Batcave to kill Lois Lane after Bruce Wayne knocked her up that scared them off.
 

plushyp

Gold Member
I don't think it was really the reception to BvS that scared WB off, more the idea of Darksied boom tubing into the Batcave to kill Lois Lane after Bruce Wayne knocked her up that scared them off.
Zack Snyder is another one of those directors who should only be behind the camera and kept far away from the writing desk.
 

KyoZz

Gold Member
I don't think it was really the reception to BvS that scared WB off, more the idea of Darksied boom tubing into the Batcave to kill Lois Lane after Bruce Wayne knocked her up that scared them off.

Agree to disagree, you can see the direct consequence in Josstice League.
But in the end, neither of us know what's in the mind of WB suits so I guess neither of us is wrong or correct.
 
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jakinov

Member
Great, except WB can't even make a good Superman movie. All of a sudden people think they can make a good Batgirl and Supergirl movie that's going to be huge at the boxoffice? I remain skeptical until they can prove otherwise. Their track record is suspect at best.
It's a differnet WB today than it was when Man of Steel came out. Most of the execs have been fired or quit. Either way it's not like WB really makes the movies themselves. What happens is they contract third parties who then own production companies that contract more third parties to do the work. It's not like game dev companies where the publisher has a bunch of people that essentially work for them and it's the same people making the game. WB goes to a differnet director who then hires his own people to do things or they might sometimes hire some other people known for doings thins for the director. Marvel more or less does the same thing except they have producers and what not who have historically done a good job at giving notes and carefully picking who they hire and how conistent their movies are and how good the action is (there was a director who complained that Marvel told them they had people to figure out the action for them and that was part of the reason why they rejected). But of course even they have some stinkers.

Will the movies be good? Who knows. Most movies that come out suck and do well at the box office. But I think you are judging the movies on the character more than you should. You shouldn't be any more skeptical of these movies than you are of any other movie. If there was specific director, writter or producer you know who has historically done a shitty job then sure. But so far they are just characters with actors attached. In theory the movie could be written and directed by Tarintino or Scorseses (yeah I know they wouldn't in reality but nothing is stopping them from hiring good writters/directors is my point).
 

AmuroChan

Member
It's a differnet WB today than it was when Man of Steel came out. Most of the execs have been fired or quit. Either way it's not like WB really makes the movies themselves. What happens is they contract third parties who then own production companies that contract more third parties to do the work. It's not like game dev companies where the publisher has a bunch of people that essentially work for them and it's the same people making the game. WB goes to a differnet director who then hires his own people to do things or they might sometimes hire some other people known for doings thins for the director. Marvel more or less does the same thing except they have producers and what not who have historically done a good job at giving notes and carefully picking who they hire and how conistent their movies are and how good the action is (there was a director who complained that Marvel told them they had people to figure out the action for them and that was part of the reason why they rejected). But of course even they have some stinkers.

Will the movies be good? Who knows. Most movies that come out suck and do well at the box office. But I think you are judging the movies on the character more than you should. You shouldn't be any more skeptical of these movies than you are of any other movie. If there was specific director, writter or producer you know who has historically done a shitty job then sure. But so far they are just characters with actors attached. In theory the movie could be written and directed by Tarintino or Scorseses (yeah I know they wouldn't in reality but nothing is stopping them from hiring good writters/directors is my point).

Yes, different people in charge, but they're the same kind of people. Suits with no background in DC Comics and know little about the IPs. Have you heard anyone say that they're excited about Walter Hamada being in charge of DC Films? Again, I don't think they have earned the benefit of the doubt given their track record. I remain skeptical about them and I won't be convinced until they prove me wrong. Go make a critically acclaimed, $1 billion dollar grossing Batgirl film and I'll happily eat crow.
 

jakinov

Member
Everyone needs to remember what was planned, and that's without counting most likely movies like Batfleck vs Deathstroke or The New Gods:



BvS might not made a billion but it was still a 870+ million dollar movie, WB should have stuck to the plan and waited for more movies to be released before making such drastic decisions. ZSJL is the proof they needed to wait.
I don't think Shazam was ever part of the slate. The Flash probably wouldn't have happened either (in time at least). $870M worldwide isn't great when you had to spend $300M to make it and as much as $150M to market it. The money you have left is gross too which means only a part of that goes back to the stakeholders.

ZSJL is not proof they needed to wait. ZSJL was not the original movie Snyder would have made if they let him do what he wanted . ZSJL is the rewritten version after BVS weeks/days after BVS came out days/week after they needed to film Justice League that WB asked them to do.They didn't want him to commit to a Part 2 which given ZSJL would have still been about an evil Superman taking over the world; which based on the DCEU critisim you can see why they didn't want to do that.So they rewrote it even more in the middle of filming until he left and then Whedon had to take what Snyder already filmed and add new scenes to alter the movie that was already mostly filmed and that had to narratively continue off Superman's death which is something hard to do. If they wanted to salvage the universe narratively and possibly make more at the box office, they should have just burnt more money and delayed the movie and reshot more of the films; or alternativley, just cut their loses and reboot entire universe. But they tried to salvage it with little money little time. Extreme risk with a failure to get the reward.

Yes, different people in charge, but they're the same kind of people. Suits with no background in DC Comics and know little about the IPs. Have you heard anyone say that they're excited about Walter Hamada being in charge of DC Films? Again, I don't think they have earned the benefit of the doubt given their track record. I remain skeptical about them and I won't be convinced until they prove me wrong. Go make a critically acclaimed, $1 billion dollar grossing Batgirl film and I'll happily eat crow.
They don't really need to know that deep of a background in it, they just need to know enough, they just need to hire the people that do and as a leader need to be able to listen to the people couseling/advising them. Hamada's willingness to embrace the multiverse and elseworlds stories itself is already a great start. BoP and James's Gunn The Suicide Squad are the only movies so far released that have fully originated from Hamada leadership from inception, most movies released in the last while were already in motion. Former DC comics head consuilts Hamada on creative things and is producer on many productions.

Also, the upcoming Batgirl will gross $0 at the box office. It's not coming to theaters so far.
 

AmuroChan

Member
They don't really need to know that deep of a background in it, they just need to know enough, they just need to hire the people that do and as a leader need to be able to listen to the people couseling/advising them. Hamada's willingness to embrace the multiverse and elseworlds stories itself is already a great start. BoP and James's Gunn The Suicide Squad are the only movies so far released that have fully originated from Hamada leadership from inception, most movies released in the last while were already in motion. Former DC comics head consuilts Hamada on creative things and is producer on many productions.

Also, the upcoming Batgirl will gross $0 at the box office. It's not coming to theaters so far.

I'll believe it when I see it. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that they've righted the ship.
 

skneogaf

Member
I was looking forward to the flash movie but it sounds like it ends with the worse decisions in dc movie history.

Not looking forward to it now.

Henry and Ben were great in their roles and definitely deserved a standalone movie to finish their dc stuff.

Marvel will take Henry wb and dc will continue to deteriorate.
 

AgatonSax

Neo Member
Nope. It was a disappointment for WB at the box office, as well as critically and with the audience. 'Only' earned 872 million worldwide. Hence all the changes that happened after it. That should have been a guaranteed 1.5 - 2 billion earner, but they screwed it up.
Bet $872m looks pretty good to WB right now. Will look good again once this novelty crap burns.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Bet $872m looks pretty good to WB right now. Will look good again once this novelty crap burns.

BvS‘s box office was by any real objective measure, a failure for such a massive IP. They knew it. Everybody else knew it. That film should have been 1.5 to 2 billion nailed on. But they made Batman a murdering twat, Superman a miserable twat, the plot was nonsensical, and it tried to rush a cinematic universe.
 
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