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[mr.dilya]

Spoilers obviously.

So is this really what people mean when they say they want more diversity in games?

Stereotypical Mexican guy with an accent calling people pendejos, because of course, that’s what Mexicans do. Of course he gets killed.

Meek and diminutive Asians who need to be protected by a buff white woman. Another timid and vapid Asian character with no personality aside from being a “gamer” who serves no other purpose other than to get stabbed in the neck by Ellie for brutal effect.

The only black characters in the game are on the bad side, one is the main villain, the others fate is to be beaten to death by a teenaged white girl in Ellie and betray her comrades, and the last one is a big nameless black brutish dude who has the strength of a bloater ie; he is portrayed as a monster.

And what’s with the Jesse character? I swear this guy had no purpose on the game aside from being an Asian sperm dispenser for a white lesbian couple to have a trophy POC baby. This is the father of Dinas child, and it’s like he caught a bullet in the head out of nowhere and nobody gave a fuck. I didn’t see pictures of him in their house or anything. Like damn...

So is this it? This is what “minorities” are supposed to expect as representaion?

Shit like this why it’s stupid to expect white developers to provide accurate depictions of other ethnicities in games. I rather they just keep making games with white protagonists. For anything else I’ll just play Japanese games.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Spoilers obviously.

So is this really what people mean when they say they want more diversity in games?

Stereotypical Mexican guy with an accent calling people pendejos, because of course, that’s what Mexicans do. Of course he gets killed.

Meek and diminutive Asians who need to be protected by a buff white woman. Another timid and vapid Asian character with no personality aside from being a “gamer” who serves no other purpose other than to get stabbed in the neck by Ellie for brutal effect.

The only black characters in the game are on the bad side, one is the main villain, the others fate is to be beaten to death by a teenaged white girl in Ellie and betray her comrades, and the last one is a big nameless black brutish dude who has the strength of a bloater ie; he is portrayed as a monster.

And what’s with the Jesse character? I swear this guy had no purpose on the game aside from being an Asian sperm dispenser for a white lesbian couple to have a trophy POC baby. This is the father of Dinas child, and it’s like he caught a bullet in the head out of nowhere and nobody gave a fuck. I didn’t see pictures of him in their house or anything. Like damn...

So is this it? This is what “minorities” are supposed to expect as representaion?

Shit like this why it’s stupid to expect white developers to provide accurate depictions of other ethnicities in games. I rather they just keep making games with white protagonists. For anything else I’ll just play Japanese games.

Not just minority and diversity stereotype. How about this one?

Spoiler

At the dance with Ellie and Abby making out, someone doesn't like it. An old White guy is the one being discriminatory. Not a female. Not a minority. A White guy. As if prejudice only comes from stodgy old White dudes.

 

[mr.dilya]

Not just minority and diversity stereotype. How about this one?

Spoiler

At the dance with Ellie and Abby making out, someone doesn't like it. An old White guy is the one being discriminatory. Not a female. Not a minority. A White guy. As if prejudice only comes from stodgy old White dudes.

Yeah and of course the Asian guy has no problem accepting the bigot sandwich.

I enjoyed the game but I’ll never play it again....the game play is good but it’s one of the most patronizing narratives I’ve ever had then displeasure of experiencing.

 

[JLMC469]

There’s a lot brainfart moments with the story. Seems critics simply ignored them or were too lazy to point them out.

 

[Birdo]

TLOU2 has the most violence towards minorities in video game history.

 

[Ellery]

This game certainly pisses of some people a lot.

 

[Aion002]

Yeah the game story sucks... But what did you guys expected from a series that starts with a kid dying in the arms of her father because "military/government sucks" or something so get emotional!!!111!!


I love nd games because they're fun to play and some characters are charismatic... Also the graphics are amazing, the gameplay is fun, the music is great..... But everything else in TLU.... Well... It's kinda no brainier/generic with on the face shock value.... That's why Uncharted>>>>>>>>TLU.

 

[RedVIper]

Did I end up on the wrong forum somehow, what is this shit.

 

[namekuseijin]

the real minorities in this game are the zombies

 

[JLMC469]

This game certainly pisses of some people a lot.

Nah, just some glaring story issues that don’t add up and some reviewers were to lazy to talk about them.

 

[Hawke502]

As a south american i am ashamed by the way videogames portray south americans. The most absurd representation i see comes from woke people.

 

[M1chl]

Did I end up on the wrong forum somehow, what is this shit.

It's fair to discuss whatever person sees that needs to be discussed, that's why this place is forum. And sure you may not like it and that's okay.

 

[Lethal01]

"Grr, The Black guys are villains, this isn't diversity. This isn't how you do diversity"

 

[Kerlurk]

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www.neogaf.com

 

[mr.dilya]

This game certainly pisses of some people a lot.

Not pissed I played through the game and will give it its props where it’s due.

I’m saying the notion that it’s a shining example of diversity in games is total bullshit. If you are white, gay, liberal, and female yeah the narrative might be right up your alley, but for everyone else it’s not even close. It’s actually the opposite.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Spoiler

One of the things that bothered me is the pregnancies. We know this is written by a progressive and progressives are 'Pro Life'. The argument goes that the unborn child is not a child until born, which is why women should have the freedom to decide the fate of their fetus. Here's the problem though: TLOU2 leans heavily into the concept of killing a pregnant woman, in the sense that our protagonists (the audience) needs to feel guilty about also killing an unborn child ...

Do you see the problem there? You can't on one hand be pro life but on the other expect your audience to feel bad about killing a pregnant woman. Either the baby is a life to be taken or it's not a life to be taken. Playing with that, as a progressive, exposes a subconscious need to devalue a baby in order to hold onto the notion of female empowerment, not a genuine philosophical standpoint.

 

[RedVIper]

Not pissed I played through the game and will give it its props where it’s due.

I’m saying the notion that it’s a shining example of diversity in games is total bullshit. If you are white, gay, liberal, and female yeah the narrative might be right up your alley, but for everyone else it’s not even close. It’s actually the opposite.

So unless the minorities are represented in a positive light it's bad representation? Only white people can be the bad guys?

 

[mr.dilya]

Did I end up on the wrong forum somehow, what is this shit.

This isn’t one of those posts my guy.

 

[Shakka43]

Spoilers obviously.

And what’s with the Jesse character? I swear this guy had no purpose on the game aside from being an Asian sperm dispenser for a white lesbian couple to have a trophy POC baby. This is the father of Dinas child, and it’s like he caught a bullet in the head out of nowhere and nobody gave a fuck. I didn’t see pictures of him in their house or anything. Like damn...

I think the kid being named J.J. had to do with Jessie and Joel’s names so there is at least that.

 

[GreyHorace]

It's like diversity doesn't automatically make a game better.

I hear people comparing this trashfire to The Last Jedi. I'd say Star Trek Picard is a more apt comparison. Both Picard and TLOU2...

- Shit on returning characters from the previous entry of the franchise.
- A nonsensical plot that cant decide what message it wants to convey.
- Heaps of graphic violence.
- Unlikable characters doing shitty stuff that makes them even more unlikable.
- A creative team that obviously hates it's audience.

Congrats Druckmann. You've joined that rarefied group of creative soybeards that include Michael Chabon and Alex Kurtzmann. Hope you all get a kick out of ruining pop culture for us normals.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So unless the minorities are represented in a positive light it's bad representation? Only white people can be the bad guys?

That's media as a whole.

In terms of being a bad guy villain trying to take over the world in a blanket approach to domination, minorities can be a bad guy just as much as a white guy.

In terms of morals, ethics, discrimination, and family values kind of stuff it's vastly white men as the target. Or a bitchy white female. Have fun trying to find a minority being prejudice against others. Especially a prejudice minority vs. another minority. Writers and directors have no balls on that topic.

 

[Woggleman]

I am a huge fan of both games but I do hope in the next one there is a black character who is still alive at the end of the game.

 

[GymWolf]

Poor manny, it was the only one who still put pussy before everything even in the apocalypse, your death will not be forget.

If we consider how much of a bitch is tommy in the end with ellie i would be okay if he was the one who got a bullet in the face instead of our beloved latino fuckboy.

 

[mr.dilya]

So unless the minorities are represented in a positive light it's bad representation? Only white people can be the bad guys?

Not what I said at all. I’m saying that non white characters shouldn’t feel like they are in a game just for the sake of being non white, and that if you are genuinely trying to represent other ethnicities in your games, don’t engage in the same old tired tropes like Mexican pendejo guy, freakishly large and scary black guy, diminutive Asian, etc;

I don’t find it offensive I find it cringe worthy and stupid.

 

[mr.dilya]

Spoiler

One of the things that bothered me is the pregnancies. We know this is written by a progressive and progressives are 'Pro Life'. The argument goes that the unborn child is not a child until born, which is why women should have the freedom to decide the fate of their fetus. Here's the problem though: TLOU2 leans heavily into the concept of killing a pregnant woman, in the sense that our protagonists (the audience) needs to feel guilty about also killing an unborn child ...

Do you see the problem there? You can't on one hand be pro life but on the other expect your audience to feel bad about killing a pregnant woman. Either the baby is a life to be taken or it's not a life to be taken. Playing with that, as a progressive, exposes a subconscious need to devalue a baby in order to hold onto the notion of female empowerment, not a genuine philosophical standpoint.

That’s a good point and I didn’t even see it that way.

 

[Clear]

In terms of morals, ethics, discrimination, and family values kind of stuff it's vastly white men as the target.

LOL

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

..........................

Spoiler: Actual thoughts of OP

 

[DeeDogg_]

This game certainly pisses of some people a lot.

Avatar quote

 

[Hobbygaming]

This game certainly pisses of some people a lot.

Yep, they can't let it go. The game is great

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Good People Die.

Diversity or not. If you want fragile snowflake shit of the POCs coming out on top go watch Black Panther or something. These people exist and in reality they aren't immune to tragedy.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

TBF, it's not that white folks can't write great stories that happen to have diversity in them. That used to be the norm, in fact. Some of the best stories of all time were written by white people that also have a lot of natural diversity. Star Wars, the Alien franchise, Pulp Fiction, Robocop, Strange Days etc. The problem is that dumb far-leftist white liberal hacks who couldn't even cut it in the Hollywood writing room are writing stories with so-called "diversity" in them for video games.

As you point out, practically every single diverse character in the game is either a stereotype or nothing more than a prop, and most likely associated with the "bad side". I wouldn't have an issue with this if there was good balance in that type of representation. I.e while I'm glad the game actually has some diverse characters who ARE bad guys or make mistakes etc (which is saying a lot considering other supposedly diverse/progressive stories these days are too scared to do such a thing)., it shouldn't be too hard to also have them express some good genuine attributes/values/morals, as well (that don't come off as manipulative or cookie-cutter garden variety).

The problem with TLOU2's writing is that it just doesn't make you give a crap about the vast majority of the new characters, who happen to fall into being the diversity you're describing. Part of the reason is because of how they're introduced (in terms of what side they're on and what act that side commits very early in the game). The other reason is because so much of the damn story is told in flashbacks, it's flashback overload, and not in a good way. It kind of robs some of the ambition of characters in the story's present because of that.

Sometimes I get the feeling the writers who write these kind of stories use the cover of being progressive as a smokescreen to be as ironically "regressive" as possible. Seriously, if this game were published by, say, THQ Nordic and developed by some other developer (let's say CDPR), you know for a fact places like Era would be doing everything in their problem to shame the game for these kinds of representations. And we know they've played through the game, so why have none of them raised these particular concerns?

Because the vast majority of them don't actually care about being progressive. They just care to pretend they do so long as the parties responsible affiliate with their political ideology. Again, the game having diverse characters who fall into what you describe isn't really the issue. It's the fact that we know very little exists to the characters in a genuine way to bring some sense of balance to them. Since Druckmann is the kind of guy who wants to be so "progressive", it's kind of odd he let this type of thing slide, isn't it? Or is he just one of those guys who's very selectively progressive on only one or two things? Which is it, Neil?

You can actually see this in action with Abby and Ellie. And dogs. I think you might know what I'm talking about here, knowing how those two interact with some very specific canines and how the story basically manipulates things in that dynamic to try making Ellie more of a villain (while being out of character) and Abby a kindhearted protagonist (despite her introductory act being outright savage and borderline stereotypical depending on if you view her being trans (she's not actually trans in the story but a lot of people have assumed that of her character)). It's pure, cold disingenuous manipulation.

Good People Die.

Diversity or not. If you want fragile snowflake shit of the POCs coming out on top go watch Black Panther or something. These people exist and in reality they aren't immune to tragedy.

You're missing the point. I don't think the OP is saying they have an issue with these characters being portrayed as villains or dying. In that sense it's actually doing something a lot of supposedly progressive stories are afraid to do these days.

The issue is that it's oddly ironic this game would do that and rather noticeably so, knowing it's got someone at the helm who has on multiple occasions stated how inclusive, diverse and "progressive" they want to be. Yet you look at these characters and how they're generally portrayed plus how they're handled in the story, and it'd seem to fly in the face of what a guy like Neil would want out of a story he's heading, no?

The game's story overall is something of a giant hot mess and all of these new diverse characters come off the worst for it. That's excusing the story's setting of course. Why is it so hard for these writers to write flawed diverse characters without playing into the same type of supposedly "problematic" and regressive stereotypes they virtue-signal so hard against on places like Twitter and Era? Especially knowing that the story itself doesn't have the chops to add any clever, subtle commentary or satire on these things when it does it?

You'd think some of the hyper-progressive folks would've noticed this and called it out, but AFAIK the only thing they've picked a problem with is supposed deadnaming. So if they're so progressive, aren't they supposed to care for all sorts of "problematic" things? That's one of the core parts of the intersectionality they've built their belief structure off of, after all. Yet the only notable pushback they've had against the game on social media is deadnaming?

Makes you think .......

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Manufactured diversity by non-diverse dev teams is cringe.

 

[Azurro]

Yep, they can't let it go. The game is great

Not really, I think the game is a huge shame as it's an indication of future Naught Dog LGBTBBC++ ideals, and that means I have one less game from a studio I used to enjoy games from, but I'm just tired of the debate:

Apologist: "oh actually, there's NO AGENDA! Show me the AGENDA!"
Me and other sane people: shows game director admitting to having Sarkeesian's influence in the game, propaganda elements in the game, narrative failures.
Apologist: "Neener NUH! That's NOT an AGENDA, there's NO AGENDA, you are just a bigot".

I'm tired man, I'll just let the game hopefully fail to reach sales targets in silence and for the people that enjoy the genderless dystopia propaganda to enjoy their game.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Not really, I think the game is a huge shame as it's an indication of future Naught Dog LGBTBBC++ ideals, and that means I have one less game from a studio I used to enjoy games from, but I'm just tired of the debate:

Apologist: "oh actually, there's NO AGENDA! Show me the AGENDA!"
Me and other sane people: shows game director admitting to having Sarkeesian's influence in the game, propaganda elements in the game, narrative failures.
Apologist: "Neener NUH! That's NOT an AGENDA, there's NO AGENDA, you are just a bigot".

I'm tired man, I'll just let the game hopefully fail to reach sales targets in silence and for the people that enjoy the genderless dystopia propaganda to enjoy their game.

TLOU had a gay character and Ellie was gay in the DLC, both were great and so is TLOU 2. I'm just glad I don't let those things affect my enjoyment of games

 

[10000]

faux pas

 

[Azurro]

TLOU had a gay character and Ellie was gay in the DLC, both were great and so is TLOU 2. I'm just glad I don't let those things affect my enjoyment of games

Ellie was retconned to be gay in the DLC, the first game was mostly devoid of any insane ideology. I don't personally enjoy playing and watching characters that look and act in an unnatural way and designed according to an ideology on how people should look and behave.

If you enjoy that and love extremist propaganda, more power to you, I'm happy you enjoy the game.

 

[Woggleman]

LGBT characters is not an agenda. It simply reflects life. I have gays in my family and they are normal people like anybody else.

 

[Azurro]

LGBT characters is not an agenda. It simply reflects life. I have gays in my family and they are normal people like anybody else.

It is not about having LGBT people in a game, it's about how the characters are represented in an unnatural way. I have no issues with how people choose to live their lives, in the least.

There's nothing to do with this, the issue is the propaganda about erasing the image of natural beauty and femininity in a woman, how a roided up monster should be a desirable look, how women should act and behave like men, how even in the apocalypse their biggest worries are bigotry and trans rights, how all the men characters should die or be left lame and have the women take over as protagonists.

It's just too on the nose and becomes annoying.

 

[carlosrox]

Stereotypical Mexican guy with an accent calling people pendejos, because of course, that’s what Mexicans do.

Ah yes thank you for reminding me of this.
I have always found this shit so cringe.

Can't believe TLOU2 stooped to such a low when it's supposedly aiming for diversity.

Like, he is so stereotyped it's kinda embarrassing.

It's the equivalent of a black character who says THAT'S WACK! DAMN! etc

As if they'd ever get away with stereotyping a black guy the way they do Latinos.



Ps. I love this game and I don't really care about the massive latino steteotype but I will call it lazy like it is

 

[DynamiteCop!]

LGBT characters is not an agenda. It simply reflects life. I have gays in my family and they are normal people like anybody else.

No it's definitely an agenda, I couldn't tell you the last time I interacted with a known homosexual person (4.5% of the population) or the last time I have seen a trans person in real life (0.6% of the population), and I'm in the Seattle area.

And this game expects me to believe Ellie's homsexual relationship, and in conjunction with that her mortal enemy is a protector of a trans female just by happenstance? Right....

 

[Tomeru]

A mexican guy with mexican accent and curses in mexican.

I thought those were a myth

No it's definitely an agenda, I couldn't tell you the last time I interacted with a known homosexual person (4.5% of the population) or the last time I have seen a trans person in real life (0.6% of the population), and I'm in the Seattle area.

And this game expects me to believe Ellie's homsexual relationship, and in conjunction with that her mortal enemy is a protector of a trans female just by happenstance? Right....

Dude tells you they have gays in the family.

You:
Stop shoving your agenda down my throat!!!

 

[Deleted member 740922]

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[The Fartist]

"Spoiler Alert" in the thread title would've been nice. My fault ultimately, but, come on.

 

[Guilty_AI]

A mexican guy with mexican accent and curses in mexican.

I thought those were a myth

I mean, i don't curse in portuguese when i'm speaking in english. Its a dumb thing to do when swear words are one of the first things we learn in the language.

 

[Reyben]

Stereotypical Mexican guy with an accent calling people pendejos, because of course, that’s what Mexicans do.

No you're right, Mexicans usually speak with a cockney accent and swear in German.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

TLOU2 has the most violence towards minorities in video game history.

You can't have them in such games while simultaneously shielding them from all violence.

 

[The Fartist]

I mean, i don't curse in portuguese when i'm speaking in english. Its a dumb thing to do when swear words are one of the first things we learn in the language.

Maybe he was drunk? (haven't made it to that part in the game) I definitely used to curse in Spanish when I used to get drunk.

I still do, but I used to, too.

 

[carlosrox]

No you're right, Mexicans usually speak with a cockney accent and swear in German.

Are you denying this being a stereotype?

The latino character who throws in random Spanish words and curses mid conversation?

 

[SlimySnake]

I Went to high school with Hispanics and they didn't switch to their language to curse when they were speaking English.

I'm not sure if Neil has ever hung out with a Hispanic person before.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Maybe he was drunk? (haven't made it to that part in the game) I definitely curse in Spanish when I use to get drunk.

Well, I've cursed in english when speaking in portuguese while drunk so...