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The English can't catch a break

CuteFaceJay

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Winston Churchill literally said let the Indians starve to death while taking all their agricultural resources for his own nation.

For reals? India helped us out a great deal in WW2 thus is why curry & Indian restaurants are such a big thing in the UK. A lot of them moved over after the war.

I couldn't imagine him saying such a thing.
 
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For reals? India helped us out a great deal in WW2 thus is why curry & Indian restaurants are such a big thing in the UK. A lot of them moved over after the war.

I couldn't imagine him saying such a thing.

Probably more french propaganda.


After all they did do this

The sinking of the Rainbow Warrior, codenamed Opération Satanique,[1] was a bombing operation by the "action" branch of the French foreign intelligence services, the Direction générale de la sécurité extérieure (DGSE), carried out on 10 July 1985.
 
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SupremeHoodie

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For reals? India helped us out a great deal in WW2 thus is why curry & Indian restaurants are such a big thing in the UK. A lot of them moved over after the war.

I couldn't imagine him saying such a thing.
Lol bro you serious? There is a leak of what was then a private conversation where Churchill told another British administrator in India (Leo Amery) that he “hated Indians” and that they were a “beastly people with a beastly religion”. Didn’t know the propoganda is that bad in the UK.
 
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sephiroth7x

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I like how everyone is arguing about historical accuracy in an Assassins Creed game, the same games that have magical orbs/Atlantis and time travelling machines (I know its not time travel but you know what I mean). Not many of them have been accurate let's face it.

Also, we haven't even played the game yet, you may play a Viking who is turned by Alfred and end up going against the Vikings for England to kick them out? Will this be a good game? Probably. Will it be the same old AC? Probably. Will it be enjoyable? Probably. Personally, after really enjoying the previous two, I am looking forward to it.
 
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I like how everyone is arguing about historical accuracy in an Assassins Creed game, the same games that have magical orbs/Atlantis and time travelling machines (I know its not time travel but you know what I mean). Not many of them have been accurate let's face it.

Yeah its a game, after all. I mean if one plays Wolfenstein the new order you might think, Germany won the war
 
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I laughed so hard when the viking didnt attack those women in the trailer
Well to be honest, it's not like the Assassin's Creed games have depicted people throughout the history in a faithful, realistic way in the previous games and just now started doing this silly shit...
 
Dec 25, 2018
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Poor England can't catch a break.



Why can't Queen Victoria hold all those Lemons Countries!



I am sure they got a break in the end OP, just a hunch. :)

They basically learned to Invade by the experts!
 
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Stilton Disco

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Really? That's why the UK loaned Ireland, over £3 Billion after it was hit hard with the financial crisis in 2008 even though the UK was hit hard too.
I didn't say we didn't like the Irish, but you'd be hard pressed to find any real sense of 'white guilt', even amongst the most weasely of the far left, over England's historic abuse of our colsest neighbour.

Certainly not in the same way you do with the various atrocities committed across America, Africa, Asia and Australia, even when they were usually far less sustained and deliberate than what was done to the Irish.

What Cromwell did alone should be a mark of shame to us, even in the grand scheme of humanities indefensibly evil acts as a whole.

And yet, we can barely recall The Troubles and reasons for the IRA repeatedly blowimg us up, and that was in most of our lifetimes. It's just for some odd reason not an area of our historic misdeeds that seems to have had any real impact or guilt left on our collective conscience.
 

BigBooper

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Ah yes, the old "we're not conquering, we're unifying" routine.

You are right though.
 

SupremeHoodie

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Who later evolved into the SAS/Seals/Green Berets...spec ops etc all European who do all the dying.



Got a single NOT hard left leaning source on that?
I don’t care for political rhetoric, it’s a known fact that during the bengal famine he rejected a proposal that involved Canadian shipment to India that would have provided the people much needed food. He instead said something to the affect of ‘they bread like rabbit’ and so that shipment wouldn’t be much help. He let the region starve while importing to Britain to create buffer stock just in case the war expanded.
 
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CuteFaceJay

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Lol bro you serious? There is a leak of what was then a private conversation where Churchill told another British administrator in India (Leo Amery) that he “hated Indians” and that they were a “beastly people with a beastly religion”. Didn’t know the propoganda is that bad in the UK.

Like LemmingWithaParachute LemmingWithaParachute said, You gonna have to show us this.
 
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I don’t care for political rhetoric, it’s a known fact that during the bengal famine he rejected a proposal that involved Canadian shipment to India that would have provided the people much needed food. He instead said something to the affect of ‘they bread like rabbit’ and so that shipment wouldn’t be much help. He let the region starve while importing to Britain to create buffer stock just in case the war expanded.

it’s a known fact that

 

sephiroth7x

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Lol bro you serious? There is a leak of what was then a private conversation where Churchill told another British administrator in India (Leo Amery) that he “hated Indians” and that they were a “beastly people with a beastly religion”. Didn’t know the propoganda is that bad in the UK.

Context and viewpoint is everything in history. It is one of the first things you learn when delving into the subject.

Churchill DID stop food reaching India in aid from Canada and that is always spouted as a source of his hatred. Instead he had the Australians do it, as he wanted to stockpile food for his own country due to the second world war. However, no doubt about it, there is plenty of evidence to suggest Churchill didn't like India and a lot of the comments that '27yearoldVirgin' has posted is true (breeding like rabbits etc). Again though, in context, in the times, this would not have been a racist comment. Perhaps taken as an insult. Today of course, this kind of talk is unacceptable.

History cannot be viewed by the times we live in otherwise everyone everything has ever done has been wrong. And honestly, I mean EVERYONE. Every hero from history was wrong.
 

SupremeHoodie

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Context and viewpoint is everything in history. It is one of the first things you learn when delving into the subject.

Churchill DID stop food reaching India in aid from Canada and that is always spouted as a source of his hatred. Instead he had the Australians do it, as he wanted to stockpile food for his own country due to the second world war. However, no doubt about it, there is plenty of evidence to suggest Churchill didn't like India and a lot of the comments that '27yearoldVirgin' has posted is true (breeding like rabbits etc). Again though, in context, in the times, this would not have been a racist comment. Perhaps taken as an insult. Today of course, this kind of talk is unacceptable.

History cannot be viewed by the times we live in otherwise everyone everything has ever done has been wrong. And honestly, I mean EVERYONE. Every hero from history was wrong.
He approved Australia to send food aid but conveniently the ship never came. (I read this many years ago back when I studied a lot about Indian colonial history. If you want a source for this Australia fact it’ll take me awhile).
 
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I didn't say we didn't like the Irish, but you'd be hard pressed to find any real sense of 'white guilt', even amongst the most weasely of the far left, over England's historic abuse of our colsest neighbour.

Certainly not in the same way you do with the various atrocities committed across America, Africa, Asia and Australia, even when they were usually far less sustained and deliberate than what was done to the Irish.

The Irish weren't always saints themself's and didn't they look to make slaves of people getting washed up on their seashore, from the shipwrecks. Most countries have a bad history if one looks back far enough. I mean just look to what the Germans did to their Neighbours and since you speak of Africa. Let's remember the French also enslaved parts of Africa or how the Spanish, Portuguese looked to take over parts of America too,

There's no doubt a good reason why Mexico, Brazil speak Spanish or Portuguese and why large parts of Africa speak French.
But hey let's blame the English and the UK for all the worlds evils..
 
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Azurro

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I don't understand the complaint, the Assassin's Creed games always take a lot of liberties with historical characters, what's wrong here? And I mean, this is an AC game, it's intended for the mass market game, and only has fun, stylised violence. You can't expect realistic war depiction, they are not going to portray them pillaging and raping women, that's not what AC is all about.
 
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It’s in page 832 of Leo Amerys Diary that was publish a few decades ago. It was called “Leo Amery: Diaries”.

So one opinion piece is all you have? Someones dairy?

You should check out the indian caste system that still exists today. Its not euros doing that.


I don't understand the complaint, the Assassin's Creed games always take a lot of liberties with historical characters, what's wrong here? And I mean, this is an AC game, it's intended for the mass market game, and only has fun, stylised violence. You can't expect realistic war depiction, they are not going to portray them pillaging and raping women, that's not what AC is all about.

The issue is not that they are, its the kind.
 
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Stilton Disco

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Churchill was an angry, drunk, obstinate git, that was as much of a monster as he was a hero, and had a callousness towards human life that led to a disturbing number of deaths throughout his life.

That doesn't change the fact that he was the only man capable of leading Britain against the Nazi's, or that without him there's a good chance we'd all be speaking German or Russian right now, if not just dead in the millions. Infact it was because he was such a bastard that he had the balls and ruthlessness to be that man.

Painting the man as either a monster or a savior does him and history a disservice. Neither is ever that simple or easy to understand.
 
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sephiroth7x

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He approved Australia to send food aid but conveniently the ship never came. (I read this many years ago back when I studied a lot about Indian colonial history. If you want a source for this Australia fact it’ll take me awhile).

I am also aware of this. This is where it gets dicey. If Churchill ordered Australia to send aid but they didn't, was it Churchill or was it Australia's fault? I won't ever say that Churchill didn't have a dislike for India (it has tons of overarching evidence separate from Amerys Diary which is only one persons opinion) but this one is so ambiguous it would be unfair to say it was Churchill himself at fault when his orders were received by Australia and there is no evidence to suggest he revoked them.

All history says is, he sent out orders and the food never arrived... so until Australia reveal what they did after that, whether they were told not to bother and it was a token speech, we will never know.
 

sephiroth7x

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Churchill was an angry, drunk, obstinate git, that was as much of a monster as he was a hero, and had a callousness towards human life that led to a disturbing number of deaths throughout his life.

That doesn't change the fact that he was the only man capable of leading Britain against the Nazi's, or that without him there's a good chance we'd all be speaking German or Russian right now, if not just dead in the millions. Infact it was because he was such a bastard that he had the balls and ruthlessness to be that man.

Painting the man as either a monster or a savior does him and history a disservice. Neither is ever that simple or easy to understand.
He was the leader we needed at the time - and despite his many many vices, was also an incredibly clever man. He was never going to be anything but a wartime leader though. Peace time, he wouldn't have lasted two minutes.
 

SupremeHoodie

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So one opinion piece is all you have? Someones dairy?

You should check out the indian caste system that still exists today. Its not euros doing that.
It’s not an opinion. He had direct conversations with Winston and he claims that is what he said during one of their conversations. It was written in a DIARY. It was published after his death. Why would he lie to himself? lol

Also, I dont give a crap about the Indian caste system, I don’t live there and I’m not Indian so it doesn’t matter to me. We’re talking about the British right now. Stop deflecting. lol
 
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It’s not an opinion. He had direct conversations with Winston and he claims that is what he said during one of their conversations. It was written in a DIARY. It was published after his death. Why would he lie to himself? lol

Also, I dont give a crap about the Indian caste system, I don’t live there and I’m not Indian so it doesn’t matter to me. We’re talking about the British right now. Stop deflecting. lol

Im not deflecting. One source claiming something is hardly evidence.
 
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Churchill was an angry, drunk, obstinate git, that was as much of a monster as he was a hero, and had a callousness towards human life that led to a disturbing number of deaths throughout his life.

That doesn't change the fact that he was the only man capable of leading Britain against the Nazi's, or that without him there's a good chance we'd all be speaking German or Russian right now, if not just dead in the millions. Infact it was because he was such a bastard that he had the balls and ruthlessness to be that man.

Painting the man as either a monster or a savior does him and history a disservice. Neither is ever that simple or easy to understand.

Thanks to him I have to pay out of my own pocket money my Glasses because he stopped Free Prescriptions and Dental work from the NHS. THE MONSTER!

He did good and bad things, in the end though the Queen had enough respect for him that she let him sit down when he wasn't so well, and had since held little respect of with the other Prime Ministers in her youth (at least from what I watched of The Crown, and she is no saint either).

Edit: With the whole India thing and withholding Food/Medicine, did Churchill effectively invent the term "Indian Giver"?
 
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It’s from the diary of Leopold Amery where he quotes Winston Churchill. You can choose to ignore it as “one source”. lol what a joke.

What are you talking about? One source is as good as one accusation without evidence.

Im not going to instantly believe it when there is nothing to back up the initial accusation or interpretation.


Believing everything you read. lol what a joke


Someone told you to hate someone based on once source of literature and you sucked it up without thinking for yourself or asking for additional info and facts.

The perfect citizen.


Imagine hating all brown people or even just one based on someones diary without additional proof. That wouldnt go down well, especially with someone like you.

That account of martian luther king watching a women get raped went quiet real quick didint it.

Should I believe the FBI?


Theres more proof of Biden's inappropriate behavior against women than there is WCs hate for Indians.
 
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SirTerry-T

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Look, this thread has gotten far too serious. All I want to know is IF the game does feature the MC aiding Alfred The Great in some way, will that take the form of a Cooking Mama style sub game involving the player trying to stop some baked goods from burning.
 
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SupremeHoodie

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What are you talking about? One source is as good as one accusation without evidence.

Im not going to instantly believe it when there is nothing to back up the initial accusation or interpretation.


Believing everything you read. lol what a joke


Someone told you to hate someone based on once source of literature and you sucked it up without thinking for yourself or asking for additional info and facts.

The perfect citizen.


Imagine hating all brown people or even just one based on someones diary without additional proof. That wouldnt go down well, especially with someone like you.

That account of martian luther king watching a women get raped went quiet real quick didint it.

Should I believe the FBI?


Theres more proof of Biden's inappropriate behavior against women than there is WCs hate for Indians.
You make it sound like Churchill’s character is being questioned just based off of Amery’s account of their private conversations. This is not the only time Winston has made remarks in such a manner towards Indians.

Also I’ll repeat, this was from a private diary. There would be no reason for him to lie to himself. He was also not a “liberal” which was oddly one of your requirements for a source.
 
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B-universe

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King Alfred the Great

-Defends his homeland from Viking Savages
-unified England to become one country essentially saving the country
-portrayed as evil and barbaric

The English can't catch a break even in video games

Don't play into the Representation game.
It's identity politics on another front and, as such, fundamentally flawed.

If you do, then you'll have to side with those who complain about how women or this or that minority are allegedly being mis or underrepresented in videogames.

Don't get your self-esteem knickers in a knot just because writers fictionalize events you weren't even part of in ways that you deem inaccurate but might make for a captivating game.
It's historical fiction.
 

Relativ9

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Yeah I feel like this game would make a lot more sense played from the perspective of the English, perhaps as an English peasant living in the viking occupied land (and I'm saying this as a Norwegian). Or if you want to write the story in the perspective of the vikings you could probably set it around one of the many civil-wars the vikings had, the Battle of Hafrsfjord and the unification of Norway comes to mind.

I'm guessing they're going to do some viking civil-war type story lines in addition to the invasions of Britain, otherwise there would be very little reason to have mountainous fjords, glaciers, ect as gameplay enviroments (which judgeing by the trailer and concept art they're obviously doing). That's another thing, the vikings that had the most violent clashes with England spesifically (as opposed to Scotland and Ireland) were Danish vikings, and Denmark is largely flat grasslands and they don't have a single mountain.
 

Scotty W

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Winston Churchill literally said let the Indians starve to death while taking all their agricultural resources for his own nation.
During World War 2.

And perhaps because of this terrible thing he did, we are able to spend hours everyday arguing over our adult toys.
 

INC

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you are all speaking my native tongue, so who gives a fuck.

If we didnt do a lot of sacking of nations, are food would be horrific, thank god we stole india for a while, I couldnt live without spice, and curry is the most popular dish in uk, and trust me, you dont want fish and chips
 

Flintty

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I rolled my eyes in the trailer. Alfred was king of Wessex and not King of England. England was his dream during his reign, but he died before he saw it happen. He also did pretty well at beating the shit out of the Vikings.

Anyway, this is Assassin's Creed and the series is not known for its historical accuracy.

I'll still enjoy for what it is.

(Slight derail). Thank you for this. I was never taught about Alfred in school and never thought to read up about him but you post got me interested. Seems a fascinating character and perhaps someone who should be celebrated more in England.

Are there any good TV series about him?
 
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INC

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Really? That's why the UK loaned Ireland, over £3 Billion after it was hit hard with the financial crisis in 2008 even though the UK was hit hard too.

Yeh we dont give a shit about Ireland, let the Catholics and protestants fight it out on their funny little island
 
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Yeh we dont give a shit about Ireland, let the Catholics and protestants fight it out on their funny little island
I tend to care, since my Grandfather comes from Cork, but most countries that have any sort of History have that bad things in the past , the Italians even killed our Lord Jesus Christ :p
 

INC

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I tend to care, since my Grandfather comes from Cork, but most countries that have any sort of History have that bad things in the past , the Italians even killed our Lord Jesus Christ :p

I lived in cork for a while, the city is beautiful, the outskirts are a complete shit hole, nothing but burnt out cars, broke glass and dog shit. Plus they hate the English, so didnt stay long, oh and it never stopped raining
 

sublimit

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That trailer looked as if it was made by a marketing team that checked all the boxes of what is trending with vikings nowdays and also infused a bit of Braveheart in it.
 

-Troid-

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Eh. Asscreed has always kind of been about "hey the animus can show us what history really was like, instead of what we only know from what was written down."

Which basically just gives them canonical artistic license to change things in history to fit the story/game better. I mean the Templars in the games always try to show everyone how the factions they secretly back are the ones on the right side of history. The assassins usually ally with factions whose stories aren't written into the history books.

In the context of the series as a whole I don't really see this as much of a problem as it's Historical Fiction.

That being said I'm not too interested in the game. Asscreed is a hard sell for me since they've made so many of them. I'll probably get it eventually on next gen because I kind of want to play a game as a hot viking chick.
 

Ballthyrm

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Company is from France but most of their big games are developed in Canada.

They are led by Canadians Devs but they are made all over the world.
Last AC games were made by 10+ Ubisoft studios, that's why they have like 15K employee or whatever.

Ubisoft doesn't crunch as hard because they just throw people at the problem and keep everything in house.
They outsource to their own studios if you will.

There is very few AAA that are actually 100% made by one Dev team.
Ubisoft at least put everyone in the credits even if it looks ridiculous.

And yeah Ubisoft is a French publisher, their editorial team influence the way games are made but at the end of the day , they aren't the ones making it.
 
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Ballthyrm

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Ubisoft are a French company ...they still haven't forgiven us for Sunday, 18th June 1815. :messenger_winking:

Yep, let's forget that Prussia had twice as many soldiers, totally a British victory that one.
Totally won on your own. No need for Allies, whatsoever.
Long live the queen and all that.
 
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