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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So the DiRT 5 team made the fix to the Series X version of the game that caused a LOD bug which has been very clearly highlighted multiple times. And yes, "bug" is exactly what it was, which is something a few were trying to explain, but a lot more were not willing to do. However, the DiRT 5 bug getting fixed should be indicative of something paramount: it's okay to note when a system has performance issues without reaching for the worst-case conclusions.

Especially considering most of the games in question are cross-gen launch titles, which will never be indicators of the true capabilities of any given platform, and it's just funny how so many people have been using the performance issues in 3P games like DiRT 5 as an indication of fundamental design flaws in the Series X. No, it doesn't mean there aren't interesting things to discuss surrounding the RAM setup, or the (relatively) slower clockspeed of the GPU. Those are things that could have some factor into game design down the road, this can be a point of curiosity for virtually every console.

But there have definitely been some people drawing the worst-case conclusions and throwing terms like "bottlenecks" around like the stock exchange was a seller's market. So let's try and keep that simple fact in mind when we continue to see some of these early 3P launch games on Series X and PlayStation 5. Performance issues aren't always some indication of a design flaw (in fact they rarely are); likewise, lack of performance issues in relation isn't always some indication of 'secret sauce' (in fact, it rarely is). Just be a bit more down-to-Earth with this stuff; Microsoft and Sony have each designed fantastic pieces of kit, and using early 3P cross-gen launch games as some hype tool or indictment for/against one of these systems, is foolish.

We can all do better

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Amen, brother.

Of course, this won't stop the same people from just storming into any and every analysis thread, frothing at the mouth, immediately declaring their console the "winner" with the same GIFs and memes without even watching or reading the data, but you're absolutely right.

 

[BigLee74]

Unfortunately, fanny-boys gonna be fannies!

 

[Hugare]

Thank you

I've been rolling my eyes for the past week with people saying that Cyberpunk runs like shit on consoles due to the hardware.
Even fucking Digital Foundry saying that they should have canceled the console versions.

The worst part is that it was OBVIOUS that the game was rushed to be released, with countless bugs, crashes and etc. It wasnt just performance. But nope, people blamed the hardware anyway.

With the last patch, not only CDPR have increased more than 15 fps in some places on the Xbox One, but also increased image quality on all consoles.

So I think that they figured out how to download more RAM on consoles or something, OR maybe they have started optimizing the game after release

 

[AnotherOne]

Well yeah like I said the day it was happening calm down and don't jump to conclusions.

 

[Neo_game]

Most rational people knew it was a bug and devs said that it would get fixed via patch. I think those devs also said there is not much wrong with the Xbox tools as well

 

[JonkyDonk]

That bug was only in the 120hz mode in Dirt 5. There was a noticeable performance difference in the 60hz mode, completely unrelated to the bug.

 

[Leyasu]

The nonsense that gets repeated in those threads is not even a surprise anymore.

They get worse and worse as the same circus clowns all run around liking each others idiotic posts too. Thus they start to believe in their own stupidity. I sometimes miss the old mods that would have thrown most of them into the sun a long time ago

 

[Leyasu]

That bug was only in the 120hz mode in Dirt 5. There was a noticeable performance difference in the 60hz mode, completely unrelated to the bug.

The game was not finished when it was launched. That is why it has taken nearly 6 weeks to get where we are now.

The series version should have been delayed

 

[regawdless]

These early issues can be consequences of the different 2 SKU strategies. While Sony uses the same HW, MS has two different consoles to develop for.
Leading up to a new gen, a lot of games come in hot. The impact of the pandemic to the work environment makes it even worse. One dev team optimizing for PS5, while another team doing so for two MS consoles with different specs.
Having significant time issues, the platform that's easier to develop for will have advantages.

Going forward, I think both consoles will perform within 10% of each other depending on the game.

Early drama is fun though. Seeing how emotionally invested some people are, is quite entertaining.

 

[Vasto]

Its early and it will be awhile before we really see the true power / performance of these new consoles.

 

[Fredrik]

In the end it’s about hardware specific optimization, and having enough dev time obviously, and most importantly differences few of us can spot without help of software anyway. When we have to ask DF for a new video to know how performance or resolution has changed after a patch we should realize that it’s better to just go back to playing the game instead.

 

[M1chl]

They deployed this game on 9 platforms, if I am not mistaken, simply not really easy feat.

 

[Blue Spring]

True, people look rather dumb now that the PS5 turned out to be the strongest console that plays multiplats best.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Oh it was Dirt 5 was it?

Not the outlandish things said prior to any of the game comparisons for almost a year straight, then came the comparisons.

It was Dirt 5, that sealed the deal.

 

[XXL]

Yes.....Dirt 5.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Of course, this won't stop the same people from just storming into any and every analysis thread, frothing at the mouth

RIGHT ON CUE

True, people look rather dumb now that the PS5 turned out to be the strongest console that plays multiplats best.

Oh it was Dirt 5 was it?

Not the outlandish things said prior to any of the game comparisons for almost a year straight, then came the comparisons.

It was Dirt 5, that sealed the deal.

 

[DeepEnigma]

RIGHT ON CUE

Right on queue for what?

You have it all figured out, so elaborate.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

OP is a Vietnamese soldier still fighting deep in the jungles in 1997.

 

[Azurro]

I could do the measured response, but thr motivation for this is quite obvious, the XSX has been receiving a consistent beating in every single comparison and the people that were on the attack for months and made the place a bit unpleasant by spreading fud about the PS5 now are saying "come on guys, let's be reasonable, both are amazing machines".

It's a bit ironic.

 

[skit_data]

I could do the measured response, but thr motivation for this is quite obvious, the XSX has been receiving a consistent beating in every single comparison and the people that were on the attack for months and made the place a bit unpleasant by spreading fud about the PS5 now are saying "come on guys, let's be reasonable, both are amazing machines".

It's a bit ironic.

I take this thread as a meta joke. I hope it is.

 

[Blue Spring]

RIGHT ON CUE

Why did OP not make a similiar thread prior the release of the consoles when unsupported claims and FUD reached the limits? Oh right, the shittalking was not directed at his favorite plastic box. He was even part of it but now wants to act as a reasonable bystander? Lol no.

Next time he opens a damage control thread he should try to make it not too obvious.

 

[FranXico]

Outlandish conclusions of hardware based on backwards compatible games is a-ok, though, right?

 

[CaptainConlock]

Turns out new consoles may have some developers create glitches, especially in a global pandemic environment. Who knew?

 

[mhirano]

Nice!
Now they only have to fix the other dozen of games where the Xbox Series X underperforms the PS5...

 

[ethomaz]

You talk about performance (4x times in the wall text) and still I couldn't see the performance of that 120Hz mode now that is is "fixed"?
Can you help us, OP?

 

[Leyasu]

You talk about performance (4x times in the wall text) and still I couldn't see the performance of that 120Hz mode now that is is "fixed"?
Can you help us, OP?

What was the performance like when it released?

 

[ethomaz]

What was the performance like when it released?

In 120Hz mode Series X was running near 120fps with very few dips.
That is the mode where the low polygon models were used.

 

[Leyasu]

In 120Hz mode Series X was running near 120fps with very few dips.
That is the mode where the low polygon models were used.

Well then seeing as they have finally finished the game, you should anticipate the same thing.

 

[ethomaz]

Well then seeing as they have finally finished the game, you should anticipate the same thing.

Wut?

In any graphic pipeline if you decrease the number of polygon of the models you have better performance... if you increase the number of polygon of the models you have a drop performance.

Most speculations about that "bug" was not if it was a bug but how much performance it was needed to chance to a high polygon models.

 

[Krisprolls]

A bug was fixed but it wasn't the core problem, which is Series X is inferior in real time performance to PS5, in this game and in other games too.

I don't see why anything would have changed on that front.

 

[ethomaz]

A bug was fixed but it wasn't the core problem, which is Series X is inferior in real time performance to PS5, in this game and in other games too.

I don't see why anything would have changed on that front.

That is easy to fix... just downgrade the PS5 version... probably what happened with this new patch
That is why a performance analysis is needed again.

But every time you ask about performance you receive useless quotes calling you fanboy... seems like the "performance" word become taboo here.

 

[SirTerry-T]

You talk about performance (4x times in the wall text) and still I couldn't see the performance of that 120Hz mode now that is is "fixed"?
Can you help us, OP?

I think think some of you are beyond help, truth be told.

 

[Fake]

Another wall thread text.

Don't worry, will come the time for you to make jokes. There are no sin on making jokes believe you or not.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

OP is a Vietnamese soldier still fighting deep in the jungles in 1997.

Rather be back in 1997 than current year. I don't care if I'm a kid again. Get me a time machine.

A bug was fixed but it wasn't the core problem, which is Series X is inferior in real time performance to PS5, in this game and in other games too.

I don't see why anything would have changed on that front.

Because people were using the LOD bug as a talking point to reinforce the point of yours I highlighted, when in fact the bug was just that: a bug.

Again it doesn't take away from the fact PS5 has better performance in various 3P cross-gen games between the two, but people are drawing the wrong conclusions from it. The truth is much more complicated than simply saying one system is objectively inferior because, some of the same people insisting that will look at the load times across the two and simply say Sony's solution is not being tapped or used correctly, whatever that means.

When the truth is, they're turning to an appeal towards justifying the paper specs with one aspect of the system design for one console, while denying the paper specs of another aspect of the system for the other console. It's a hypocrisy that can't be ignored. It's essentially a litmus test, but at least keep it consistent across the board

Outlandish conclusions of hardware based on backwards compatible games is a-ok, though, right?

Where was that said in the OP? Where was it even implied? What were any outlandish claims made about BC titles?

Quick answer tho is no, that isn't OK either. But I have no idea what you are referring to as outlandish claim.

Why did OP not make a similiar thread prior the release of the consoles when unsupported claims and FUD reached the limits? Oh right, the shittalking was not directed at his favorite plastic box. He was even part of it but now wants to act as a reasonable bystander? Lol no.

Next time he opens a damage control thread he should try to make it not too obvious.

Lol, you have NO idea who I am, do you? I've debunked FUD on both consoles. I like a lot of things about both consoles. You should stop using me as a canvas for projecting your own console biases onto.

I could do the measured response, but thr motivation for this is quite obvious, the XSX has been receiving a consistent beating in every single comparison and the people that were on the attack for months and made the place a bit unpleasant by spreading fud about the PS5 now are saying "come on guys, let's be reasonable, both are amazing machines".

It's a bit ironic.

Okay but just FYI, I personally didn't engage in that stuff for either PS5 or Series systems. If other people did, hopefully they've learned a lesson. But just because they did doesn't justify turning it right back around. It's just kind of petty IMHO.

These early issues can be consequences of the different 2 SKU strategies. While Sony uses the same HW, MS has two different consoles to develop for.
Leading up to a new gen, a lot of games come in hot. The impact of the pandemic to the work environment makes it even worse. One dev team optimizing for PS5, while another team doing so for two MS consoles with different specs.
Having significant time issues, the platform that's easier to develop for will have advantages.

Going forward, I think both consoles will perform within 10% of each other depending on the game.

Early drama is fun though. Seeing how emotionally invested some people are, is quite entertaining.

Yes this definitely factors into things and is something MS should've been more considerate of. Two system SKUs with very different specs in terms of GPU, RAM, storage space and even CPU speeds was going to cause some issues especially considering they did not have a Series S-specific profile for GDK until much later. A lot of the issues in terms of 3P performance is on them for that.

That bug was only in the 120hz mode in Dirt 5. There was a noticeable performance difference in the 60hz mode, completely unrelated to the bug.

Well it's a good thing we're allowed to speculate then . That said, again DiRT 5 isn't a particularly taxing game; it's more likely CodeMasters took the path of least resistance for getting the game going on certain platforms, and that can be true while also acknowledging other things as being true such as Sony's design just actually being easier to work with. There's evidence to support both claims simultaneously.

They deployed this game on 9 platforms, if I am not mistaken, simply not really easy feat.

Especially considering I don't think the team was very large.

Thank you

I've been rolling my eyes for the past week with people saying that Cyberpunk runs like shit on consoles due to the hardware.
Even fucking Digital Foundry saying that they should have canceled the console versions.

The worst part is that it was OBVIOUS that the game was rushed to be released, with countless bugs, crashes and etc. It wasnt just performance. But nope, people blamed the hardware anyway.

With the last patch, not only CDPR have increased more than 15 fps in some places on the Xbox One, but also increased image quality on all consoles.

So I think that they figured out how to download more RAM on consoles or something, OR maybe they have started optimizing the game after release

Yeah, CP2077 performance on consoles is 100% on CDPR and, moreso, CDP rushing the game out of the door. Anyone trying to push this as a hardware bottleneck issue on any systems, must have fried some brain cells xD.

 

[M1chl]

Especially considering I don't think the team was very large.

Well it's basically Evolution Studios.

 

[Codeblew]

How did the extra polygon count affect the FPS? If you don't have the answer, it sounds like you are the one making outlandish conclusions.

 

[ethomaz]

Well it's basically Evolution Studios.

What the size of Codemasters Cheshire? Evolution had 60 employees.
I know in 2019 the whole Codemasters had 850 full-time employees but I believe they increased from 2019 to now.

 

[M1chl]

What the size of Codemasters Cheshire? Evolution had 60 employees.
I know in 2019 the whole Codemasters had 850 full-time employees but I believe they increased from 2019 to now.

I am not sure, it's probably not that big of a team, but there are people there who were working on Dirt 3. So probably more than 60 people. But internet does not know how much people are there.

 

[DarkMage619]

In 120Hz mode Series X was running near 120fps with very few dips.
That is the mode where the low polygon models were used.

Yet surprisingly Sony fans ignored that point and showed tons of Craig mowing the grass pictures. I guess MS loses both ways.

 

[DJ12]

Well done to Codemasters for 'allegedly' bringing parity to 120hz mode, other modes though where PS5 was better (higher res, better AF, draw distance & without VRS reducing image quality) were not bugs and were not fix though I guess, and there has been no analysis of 120hz mode either so a touch early on the old touch paper there sir.

Got to love the irony though, crowing about judging too soon, but that's exactly what you've done.

Keep up the good work I guess.

Yet surprisingly Sony fans ignored that point and showed tons of Craig mowing the grass pictures. I guess MS loses both ways.

You are aware running the game at such reduced quality would be less taxing on the system, right??!

 

[MadchesterManc]

Folk were already revelling in outlandish hardware claims prior to launch, so it's been quite the interesting month on GAF.

 

[Leyasu]

Wut?

In any graphic pipeline if you decrease the number of polygon of the models you have better performance... if you increase the number of polygon of the models you have a drop performance.

Most speculations about that "bug" was not if it was a bug but how much performance it was needed to chance to a high polygon models.

No, it was you and a few other hardcore fanboys running around talking nonsense about an obviously unfinished game.

Speculation?? fucking lol. It was circus of stupidity with you as one of the leading actors.

 

[ethomaz]

No, it was you and a few other hardcore fanboys running around talking nonsense about an obviously unfinished game.

Speculation?? fucking lol. It was circus of stupidity with you as one of the leading actors.

Wut? You can read the previous posts in the thread (it is public you know).

Show me the performance now with the patch... after that we can talk about your weird issues.

Well done to Codemasters for 'allegedly' bringing parity to 120hz mode, other modes though where PS5 was better (higher res, better AF, draw distance & without VRS reducing image quality) were not bugs and were not fix though I guess, and there has been no analysis of 120hz mode either so a touch early on the old touch paper there sir.

Got to love the irony though, crowing about judging too soon, but that's exactly what you've done.

Keep up the good work I guess.

You are aware running the game at such reduced quality would be less taxing on the system, right??!

They are somehow trying to twist what happened in that old thread to fits a new narrative.

The game become a meme because:

+ It ran with better resolution, AF, effects, etc with the same frame rate on PS5 in Performance and Quality modes.
+ It ran with better polygon models and lower framerate on PS5 in 120Hz mode.

Now the new patch fix the lower polygon models in 120Hz on Series X so what about the performance tests? Seems like no Xbox care anymore.
PS5 is alleged to be running with worst framerate post-patch.... but hey where is the performance tests? Seems like it is non-issue for some.

This thread has high chances to become another joke/mene in the future because there a lot of things to see before calls it a "fix".

 

[Bogroll]

That is easy to fix... just downgrade the PS5 version... probably what happened with this new patch
That is why a performance analysis is needed again.

But every time you ask about performance you receive useless quotes calling you fanboy... seems like the "performance" word become taboo here.

Maybe they upgraded the PS5 to 1080p from 900p in 120hrz mode.

 

[Redlancet]

True, people look rather dumb now that the PS5 turned out to be the strongest console that plays multiplats best.

l laugh at this kind of threads,they act like there wasnt months of 12tf bragging,and now the discourse is "see? it was a bug ok..that was a bug,and im pretty sure games will look almost the same and some of them better on one system or the other,but dont act like people laughing at the shitshow arent validated,and btw its not only dirt5,is a lot of third party games,and yes,we can take conclusions,ps5 third party games look the same or even better than the xbox series x ones,add to the mix the good first party output from sony and the dual sense and the "i got the series x for multis" discourse doesnt have any legs anymore

 

[Leyasu]

Wut? You can read the previous posts in the thread (it is public you know).

Show me the performance now with the patch... after that we can talk about your weird issues.

Yeah, they have probably removed the 120hz option because the XsX can’t run it....

There is another cross gen racer with a performance patch on the XsX. Although it doesn’t have a 120hz mode, it’s 60hz mode absolutely annihilates dirt in the same setting.

Weird issues. Yes I have a hard time understanding fanboys

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe they upgraded the PS5 to 1080p from 900p in 120hrz mode.

All modes has DRS.
The modes with framerate issues now are the Quality (1440p to 4K) and Resolution (most of time in 4k).
120Hz mode already had big dips on PS5.

Yeah, they have probably removed the 120hz option because the XsX can’t run it....

There is another cross gen racer with a performance patch on the XsX. Although it doesn’t have a 120hz mode, it’s 60hz mode absolutely annihilates dirt in the same setting.

Weird issues. Yes I have a hard time understanding fanboys

What are you talking about?
The fix the OP is talking is in the 120Hz mode... they did not remove it.

I mean come back to reality please.

 

[Leyasu]

All modes has DRS.
The modes with framerate issues now are the Quality (1440p to 4K) and Resolution (most of time in 4k).
120Hz mode already had big dips on PS5.


What are you talking about?
The fix the OP is talking is in the 120Hz mode... they did not remove it.

I mean come back to reality please.

Fucking lol

Coming from you

 

[bxrz]

So the DiRT 5 team made the fix to the Series X version of the game that caused a LOD bug which has been very clearly highlighted multiple times. And yes, "bug" is exactly what it was, which is something a few were trying to explain, but a lot more were not willing to do. However, the DiRT 5 bug getting fixed should be indicative of something paramount: it's okay to note when a system has performance issues without reaching for the worst-case conclusions.

Especially considering most of the games in question are cross-gen launch titles, which will never be indicators of the true capabilities of any given platform, and it's just funny how so many people have been using the performance issues in 3P games like DiRT 5 as an indication of fundamental design flaws in the Series X. No, it doesn't mean there aren't interesting things to discuss surrounding the RAM setup, or the (relatively) slower clockspeed of the GPU. Those are things that could have some factor into game design down the road, this can be a point of curiosity for virtually every console.

But there have definitely been some people drawing the worst-case conclusions and throwing terms like "bottlenecks" around like the stock exchange was a seller's market. So let's try and keep that simple fact in mind when we continue to see some of these early 3P launch games on Series X and PlayStation 5. Performance issues aren't always some indication of a design flaw (in fact they rarely are); likewise, lack of performance issues in relation isn't always some indication of 'secret sauce' (in fact, it rarely is). Just be a bit more down-to-Earth with this stuff; Microsoft and Sony have each designed fantastic pieces of kit, and using early 3P cross-gen launch games as some hype tool or indictment for/against one of these systems, is foolish.

We can all do better

Lets see if NXGamer and all those PS fanboy youtubers will make a video now

NXGamer We’re waiting