Would be a bad decision to abandon over 100 million PlayStation customers!It really sad to see we will have crossgen games even in 2022, 2 years after PS5 release.
Nah, no 30 for GT. 60 vs 120 yes.
A PS4 game with enhanced bling for ps5 is all this will be.
Physics and simulation will be Jaguar spec.
rFactor2 (one of, if not the best/complex tyre physics in a racing game) has a min CPU spec of a Core2Duo, so maybe it isn't as bad as we think?That's is the problem. People think is just a downgrade and it will not be the case. PD will not make two physics for PS5 and PS4. They will make a physics and simulation that the Jaguar can handle and the PS5 will run better fps and res.
Sony... You can't be promoting GT7
like this when you've just said it's cross gen, after revealing it at an event saying "we believe in generations, let us show you things only possible on next gen" - or something to that effect, […]
Lyin' Jim Ryan. You know... […]
PS is operating on half truths and playing semantics with wordplay to justify their shit.
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
GT3 A-spec remains as the best game in the series imo.
Well why not make cross gen with ps2/ps3. Would be a bad decision to abandon over 200million customersWould be a bad decision to abandon over 100 million PlayStation customers!
That’s just being silly and you know it.Well why not make cross gen with ps2/ps3. Would be a bad decision to abandon over 200million customers
You forgot the PS1Well why not make cross gen with ps2/ps3. Would be a bad decision to abandon over 200million customers
That assumes that physics on PS5 were going to be that much better to begin with. There's not a lot that indicates this was going to be the case. The physics in the last game was pretty solid. If nothing else they should apply that cpu to better cpu driver AI in single player on PS5.The biggest issue isn't the SSD in my view - it's the CPU. Sadly next level physics will have to be toned down so that PS4 and PS5 can play online together for the sake of e-sports parity. We're already hitting the point of diminishing returns with driving games, and so this is incredibly disappointing news.
cross gen isn’t a bad thing, it’s just bad for everybody who slated Microsoft for saying it from the beginning and now Sony has owned up its egg on their faces.
i think if the corona situation didnt happen and you could just buy a PS5 regulary than there wouldnt be this many cross games.
Interesting that you start with a half truth at best / misleading console warring at worst and then continue with a “lyin’ Jim Ryan” “PS operating on half truths”… and do not bother to do any fact checking on something discussed tons and tons of time, but sure it would spoil the fun of posting it, trying to get people pissed offs and laughing eh ?
I like the fact the video is talking about RT, 4K, 120 Hz (and otherwise they would highlight the DualSense features… again all visual and gameplay enhancing features that are only on the PS5 version).
PS5 Die Shot has been revealed
I blame this bearded stoner Exactly. He literally says there that "RDNA2 includes hardware support for DIRECT X ray tracing" So... PS5 by definition can't be this so called "full RDNA2" because PlayStation would never ever use fucking DirectX. Wow the PS5 is not a PC. Shocker. Its dishonest...www.neogaf.com
Original article: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5
Jim Ryan: ... "It's now just over a year since we began sharing technical details of the PlayStation 5, but today's the day we've been looking forward to for years. When we get to show you just some of the games that demonstrate our belief that PS5 marks the biggest generational tranisition our industry has yet seen. The content we've curated for today's event showcases how PS5 has inspired developers to create new experiences that are transformative in how they look, sound and feel. Enough from me, we're going to have the games do our talking."
Followed by
<All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from PS5 systems.>
Game Devs:
I think there's a lot to look forward to for the community, I think fans are going to be really pleased. As a game designer and storyteller this is incredibly exciting. We're talking a whole new generation of ideas and experiences that we can create for the player. No matter where they are. No matter who they are.
New experiences like we've never had before. More iconic, interesting characters. More atmospheric and immersive worlds for players to explore. We want to wow players, expect the unexpected.
I for one can't wait - can't wait - we can't wait to share them with you. It's so exciting - incredibly exciting - it's really about.... <fade out> WELCOME TO PLAYSTATION 5!
Jim Ryan: We hope you've enjoyed the first glimpse of our future today. You've seen our most striking console design yet. And you've seen games that can only be enjoyed with the full range of PS5's features and power. At PlayStation we believe in Generational Transitions, and we have put years of work into making them happen. We want you to enjoy the unique benefits of moving from one generation to the next. Thank you for joining us. We're launching later this year and we have tonnes more to share. Welcome to PlayStation 5.
One way to keep PS4 users engaged would be to make upcoming PS5 games playable on the older machine, just like Microsoft is proposing with its Xbox Series X games being playable on Xbox One. Yet Ryan says that's not something PlayStation is interested in doing.
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
GT3 A-spec remains as the best game in the series imo.
You bolded something in your quote the journalist said interpreting what followed and making his own reference to MS strategy which Ryan did not make. The believe in generation quote is a very curious hill to die on / last stand because out of all the things Ryan said, plenty of idiotic quotes, this is the least controversial.They're not saying the controllers and the hardware are the new features, they're talking about the GAMES USING the features, the benefits, the power, the new... the difference in hardware architecture, to be games that can only be enjoyed on PS5. This simply cannot be true of PS4 also-run cross gen games, which they clearly are interested in by the fact that they exist. Just cut the BS talk, Jim.
… and yet it is true. Spider-man Miles Morales and the original remastered Spider-man do take advantage of things you can enjoy only on the new console and those are next generation features or features introduced in the new generation HW.This simply cannot be true of PS4 also-run cross gen games, which they clearly are interested in by the fact that they exist.
Sucks for online matchmaking / loading. Sitting in a menu longer because of the previous gen console.
Sony are losing a lot of money on every PS5 (even more on the digital version). They have to sell their games to as big an audience as possible. Jim Ryan is nothing more than a puppet on a string, he has to answer to the bigwigs at Sony Corp. People quoting Ryan is really silly, he hasn't got the control Phil Spencer has because Sony haven't got the warchest (couldn't help myself ).
PS5 is selling even better than PS4. Why then make it crossgen 2 years after release? (Assumming GT7 will be released in Q4 2022)
I think he means like Rocket League - if you are on an next gen console you match make, then you load in to the arena very quickly, then you have to wait for the last gen players to load in to the arena before the count down to kick off begins.How does that work? Surely you don't mean the SSD speed do you? The increased match making pool would far outweigh this.
I think he means like Rocket League - if you are on an next gen console you match make, then you load in to the arena very quickly, then you have to wait for the last gen players to load in to the arena before the count down to kick off begins.
Where are you taking your data from?Sony are losing a lot of money on every PS5
Yeah I hope we basically don’t get GT sport with a more fleshed out campaign, mods, cars and tracks. GT is my favourite game series but it’s been behind the competition for so long in most of the things you brought up. They need to give us dynamic time and weather back that we had on the PS3 titles, as well as a proper damage model that isn’t an afterthought. Realistic damage has been on fans wishlist for more than a decade and not implementing it now cos it’s cross gen would be a major misstep for the game.The question is what should distinguish a next gen racer from a already 60FPS GT Sport .. apart from graphical improvements. I'm thinking (again) of realistic visible damage to the vehicle and even total damage, interactive pit stops, changing weather conditions....a lot would be possible only with PS5
Well they have been and the digital still is, so what you bumping your gums about?Where are you taking your data from?
Sony's Jim Ryan says PS5 standard edition will break even from June
Sony expects the disc version of PS5 to be profitable by next month.www.vg247.com
At some point we gotta stop using this as an excuse. How are you abandoning 100 million customers when you've put out product over the last 7/8 years? That makes no sense. PS4 owners still gonna get their "improved stability" patches and indy games. At some point people gotta understand that there is a new kid on the block named PS5 that should get the most attention now. And that's coming from a non PS5 owner. Games shouldn't be watered just because some couldn't grab and/or afford a PS5. But Sony chose the decision to make sure its released on PS4. I just hope it doesn't completely gimp the game just to have it realized on old hardware.Would be a bad decision to abandon over 100 million PlayStation customers!
You're right. Plebs who can't get a PS5 don't deserve good games. They only deserve stability patches and indies.At some point we gotta stop using this as an excuse. How are you abandoning 100 million customers when you've put out product over the last 7/8 years? That makes no sense. PS4 owners still gonna get their "improved stability" patches and indy games. At some point people gotta understand that there is a new kid on the block named PS5 that should get the most attention now. And that's coming from a non PS5 owner. Games shouldn't be watered just because some couldn't grab and/or afford a PS5. But Sony chose the decision to make sure its released on PS4. I just hope it doesn't completely gimp the game just to have it realized on old hardware.
PS5 owners dont deserve PS5 games. They only deserve indies and PS4 games.You're right. Plebs who can't get a PS5 don't deserve good games. They only deserve stability patches and indies.
At some point we gotta stop using this as an excuse. How are you abandoning 100 million customers when you've put out product over the last 7/8 years? That makes no sense. PS4 owners still gonna get their "improved stability" patches and indy games. At some point people gotta understand that there is a new kid on the block named PS5 that should get the most attention now. And that's coming from a non PS5 owner. Games shouldn't be watered just because some couldn't grab and/or afford a PS5. But Sony chose the decision to make sure its released on PS4. I just hope it doesn't completely gimp the game just to have it realized on old hardware.
Your entitlement is dripping. You should sop that up, pimp.You're right. Plebs who can't get a PS5 don't deserve good games. They only deserve stability patches and indies.
It's still single threaded today. And it shipped games on that Jaguar CPU people are so concerned with.rFactor2 (one of, if not the best/complex tyre physics in a racing game) has a min CPU spec of a Core2Duo, so maybe it isn't as bad as we think?
It wasn't until some years ago that most of it was single threaded as well. I don't know. Maybe we (yes, me included) are assuming too much?
And even for cross play, some things can be left off to accommodate the physics code. For example: no opponent AI code needed for multiplayer. Some track stuff as well, maybe?It's still single threaded today. And it shipped games on that Jaguar CPU people are so concerned with.
Also the fun thing about physics sim fidelity is that it 'is' actually scalable, if it came to 'it can only run certain level on CPU X' - the only problem would be cross-play.
Devs lying :d physics 100% nit the same (pc setups just dont work on ps4)There's also Kunos' ACC. It may be a better example:
“The physics in the PC [game] are the same as PS4 and Xbox One. The only thing that has changed is the textures for the graphics.”
Assetto Corsa Competizione: Console gamers won't be short changed
ACC is coming to PS4 and Xbox One and players will be treated to the same game as is available on PC.realsport101.com
People like to rewrite history, they also forget the 80 milions from ps3 to ps4 and who knows how many from ps1 to ps2... don't waste your time dude.Well why not make cross gen with ps2/ps3. Would be a bad decision to abandon over 200million customers
Weird to see so much hostility for people who agree with you that some devs will design differently when only designing for next gen.Problem is people think every developer is going to design their game differently jsut because theres an SSD. Some will but . . . .
They keep supporting PS4 not because it sold 120 million consoles until now, but because over 80 million of them still keep playing every month and it was above 90 when PS5 was released.PS2 had a 150 million userbase. Sony had no problem abandoning them.
Wii had a 100+ million userbase. Nintendo abandoned them. What an anti-consumer company.
Xbox 360 had over 85 million users. Microsoft abandoned them like Konami abandoned Kojima.
Its predecessor the OG Xbox had over 20 million users. MS abandoned them after just 4 years.
This is how the industry has always been. You buy it expecting 5-7 years of support. It's people who shelled out $500 for this console expecting next gen games based on false advertising who are abandoned. Not the other way around.
- DestructionLiterally, you cant even say what different can they do
- Destruction
- Better racing A.I using machine learning that adapts to your racing style mid game
- Better physics models
- Weather and other simulations
- Massive crowds
- Better trackside detail
- More cars on screen.
GT3 was easily the biggest showpiece for the PS2 right alongside MGS2. Racing sims like GT have long set the standard for graphics. Photorealistic graphics. GT7 barely looks better than GT Sports.
The funny thing is that DriveClub was on the same gen, but because they targeted only 30 fps they had 2x as much GPU resources which gave us a great idea of exactly what compromises GT Sports had to take within the same generation in order to hit 60 fps. The rain and weather effects were the most obvious ones. You take one look at the windshield rain effects between the two games and its not even close. The trackside detail is on another level. Everything from the trees to the individual plants in rendered in 3d in these massive long tracks. GT Sports was a close circuit game and it still used 2D trees. Not to mention the fact that DC had realtime day and night time of day shifts that GT didnt even bother with.
They are just now getting 3D trees and realtime time of day lighting changes. They are literally already a gen behind with this so called next gen version of the game. No wonder Sony killed Evo Studios, they were making PD look bad.
Interesting, so you make numbers up out of thin air and when called up on you try to flip the tables and go on the “offensive” (it would become quite funny if you were one of the people that think the Digital Edition is a scam that is produced in super low quantities too)?Well they have been and the digital still is, so what you bumping your gums about?
Nah. First PS5 SOC specs via tests leaked in 2018.Games like GT7, Horizon 2 or God of War Ragnarok were started to be developed back in 2017-2018, and back then games could only be designed and developed for PS4. They had no idea of the PS5 final specs and that it was going to feature an SSD and I/O system technology that back then didn't exist. So the games were designed and started to be developed for PS4 because they didn't have any other option, and then when they had the PS5 specs started to implement next gen improvements (haptic feedback, 3D audio, RT, highter resolution, maybe better lighting, etc) for the base PS4 game.
It's almost impossible that the decision of releasing a PS4 version of GT7 would have been taken recently, and much less that the game design or concept could have been affected because of that, that's 100% impossible. AAA games that started to be developed back in 2017-2018 like Gran Turismo 7 couldn't be designed for PS5, and even less to take advantage of disruptive new possibilities that the SSD offers for game design.
They keep supporting PS4 not because it sold 120 million consoles until now, but because over 80 million of them still keep playing every month and it was above 90 when PS5 was released.
It would be super retarded to stop releasing games for this people, they will continue releasing PS4 games until 2-3 years after PS5 release as they did with PS2 or PS3 because they will be by far their biggest group of active customers during this period until they slowly migrate to PS5 even if they keep migrating at the gaming history record levels that they expected and that they are achieving.
On top of that, basically all big AAA games we'll see during the 1st and 2nd (and maybe 3rd) year of the console were started to be developed like 4-5 years ago for the previous console when they didn't know the next gen specs, so these games are basically a previous gen game with an extra layer of shiny stuff like higher native resolution, RT and so on. Pretty much secondary stuff that doesn't affect the game concept if they remove it for a previous gen version.
Only a few super fast teams like Insomniac are able to ship games more or less big games during that period that are somewhat designed for next gen in mind. And even in cases like Ratchet, maybe they already started to develop the game normally as if it was a previous gen game and added their lighting/RT/dimension jumps stuff in the later stages of development.
Every generation AAA games take longer to be developed. And in this case where we'll have several paradigm changes due to the SSD as we saw in the UE5 demo and Cerny's presentation, they will need extra time to learn this stuff, to update their game engines to support that, to lean to use it and test which numbers can they achieve before they can design games to take advantage of all this next gen potential. Which means we won't see games unleashing this potential until at least the 3rd or 4th year of the console, a bit later than happened normally in all generations with their 2nd-3rd gen games.
It's common knowledge that consoles are sold at a loss at launch and for some time after. Jim Ryan said in article you linked that the disc version has been profitable since June. I'm not sure why you even replied to me in the first place, you literally confirmed what I said. Low quantities? What on earth are you on about?Interesting, so you make numbers up out of thin air and when called up on you try to flip the tables and go on the “offensive” (it would become quite funny if you were one of the people that think the Digital Edition is a scam that is produced in super low quantities too)?
I replied to what you said. You said that right now the console is selling at a huge loss (“losing a lot of money”) and even more on the digital model.It's common knowledge that consoles are sold at a loss at launch and for some time after. Jim Ryan said in article you linked that the disc version has been profitable since June. I'm not sure why you even replied to me in the first place, you literally confirmed what I said.
The point about the digits losing more money than the other model is a bit more powerful if you think they are selling a lot of those this making $399 the real base PS5 price, just wanted to know what you thought about that.Low quantities? What on earth are you on about?
1st party teams didn't know final PS5 target (maybe had some minor tweaks after that) specs until 2019 because wasn't decided until then. Before that for sure they must have thinking about different ideas and AMD must have been making candidate stuff.Nah. First PS5 SOC specs via tests leaked in 2018.
If their first party teams didn't know target specs at that time already, ps5 did something wrong.
Other games already did this in previous generations. They don't need a PS5 for all this. If their priority would be these things, they could have included it on a PS4.- Destruction
- Better racing A.I using machine learning that adapts to your racing style mid game
- Better physics models
- Weather and other simulations
- Massive crowds
- Better trackside detail
- More cars on screen.