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The decision to release a PS4 version (of Gran Turismo 7) was made only fairly recently. - VGC

scydrex

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Nah, no 30 for GT. 60 vs 120 yes.

A PS4 game with enhanced bling for ps5 is all this will be.

Physics and simulation will be Jaguar spec.

That's is the problem. People think is just a downgrade and it will not be the case. PD will not make two physics for PS5 and PS4. They will make a physics and simulation that the Jaguar can handle and the PS5 will run better fps and res.
 

omegasc

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That's is the problem. People think is just a downgrade and it will not be the case. PD will not make two physics for PS5 and PS4. They will make a physics and simulation that the Jaguar can handle and the PS5 will run better fps and res.
rFactor2 (one of, if not the best/complex tyre physics in a racing game) has a min CPU spec of a Core2Duo, so maybe it isn't as bad as we think?
It wasn't until some years ago that most of it was single threaded as well. I don't know. Maybe we (yes, me included) are assuming too much?
 
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ksdixon

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Sony... You can't be promoting GT7
like this when you've just said it's cross gen, after revealing it at an event saying "we believe in generations, let us show you things only possible on next gen" - or something to that effect, I'd have to go watch the event again for the exact phrasing.

Lyin' Jim Ryan. You know... At a certain point you have to look across the pond and think "XB took some flack at the time, but dammit they came out right at that start and said no next gen only games for a few years. Their fans knew right or wrong what they were getting into."

PS is operating on half truths and playing semantics with wordplay to justify their shit. I hate Ryan's PS. It's totally indicative of him being a slimey business man, worse than Spencer. Ffs even Matrick's era was more bluntly up front with people "well, that's not our policy going forward, buy a 360 instead". It takes a real dick to start making Matrick retroactively start looking good.
 

Panajev2001a

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Sony... You can't be promoting GT7
like this when you've just said it's cross gen, after revealing it at an event saying "we believe in generations, let us show you things only possible on next gen" - or something to that effect, […]

Lyin' Jim Ryan. You know... […]

PS is operating on half truths and playing semantics with wordplay to justify their shit.
Interesting that you start with a half truth at best / misleading console warring at worst and then continue with a “lyin’ Jim Ryan” “PS operating on half truths”… and do not bother to do any fact checking on something discussed tons and tons of time, but sure it would spoil the fun of posting it, trying to get people pissed offs and laughing eh ;)?

I like the fact the video is talking about RT, 4K, 120 Hz (and otherwise they would highlight the DualSense features… again all visual and gameplay enhancing features that are only on the PS5 version).

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."


Original article: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5
 
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phil_t98

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Well why not make cross gen with ps2/ps3. Would be a bad decision to abandon over 200million customers
That’s just being silly and you know it.

cross gen isn’t a bad thing, it’s just bad for everybody who slated Microsoft for saying it from the beginning and now Sony has owned up its egg on their faces.

GRAN TURISMO will end looking awesome still
 
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bourgeois

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The biggest issue isn't the SSD in my view - it's the CPU. Sadly next level physics will have to be toned down so that PS4 and PS5 can play online together for the sake of e-sports parity. We're already hitting the point of diminishing returns with driving games, and so this is incredibly disappointing news.
 
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ReBurn

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The biggest issue isn't the SSD in my view - it's the CPU. Sadly next level physics will have to be toned down so that PS4 and PS5 can play online together for the sake of e-sports parity. We're already hitting the point of diminishing returns with driving games, and so this is incredibly disappointing news.
That assumes that physics on PS5 were going to be that much better to begin with. There's not a lot that indicates this was going to be the case. The physics in the last game was pretty solid. If nothing else they should apply that cpu to better cpu driver AI in single player on PS5.
 

CamHostage

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cross gen isn’t a bad thing, it’s just bad for everybody who slated Microsoft for saying it from the beginning and now Sony has owned up its egg on their faces.

I mean, it might be a bad thing, but so far, that hasn't proven to be the case...

Developers using cross-gen approaches have been perfectly able to dress visuals and game systems up with next-gen features and performance abilities on existing tech trees, and meanwhile the big new next-gen technologies that will redefine gaming in the future has taken longer to come to market than the hardware itself. (Really, the developers are probably not behind, just development timeframes have taken longer than the hardware has, which is true every gen and ever gen we get their "past-gen+" games, but usually there's a little bit more experimental or breakthrough technology at launch than we got this time, and even UE5 is a year away at least.) Though there are some stunning next-gen games out, there's no game yet that establishes, "This is next-gen and everything else is outdated", and albeit R&C Rift Apart and to some degree MSFS prove that approaching a game production with a focus only on next-gen can allow you to do things not done before, even the second year of games are showing plenty of power in the concept of scalability and little stand-out power in going next-gen only. (We may see things differently in 2022, hopefully.) Cross-gen has allowed developers to rework their engines and push for new next-gen technology while still remaining profitable. Look at the Insomniac model, where they alone have shipped 3 games now on PS5, two cross- and one next-gen-exclusive, now they have released the most advanced game technology demonstration on any console with Rift Apart, and they're just getting started...

I was skeptical of cross-gen when it was put forth as big part of these first years of the consoles, but it really hasn't been the problem so far. Lots of other delays and slow rollouts and a few failures to launch have been disappointing, all of that has taken more time and been frustrating to wait for, but in the meantime, games have been out and they have been good. I'd love to see something come out soon that blows away expectations and makes everybody go buy a next-gen platform because they've never been so excited by next-gen-exclusive tech, but that hasn't happened often in 2020 or 2021, and so far we don't have a lot still to see that paradigm shift in 2022. It's a bright future ahead, but it's also a pretty danged good time to game right now.
 
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ksdixon

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Interesting that you start with a half truth at best / misleading console warring at worst and then continue with a “lyin’ Jim Ryan” “PS operating on half truths”… and do not bother to do any fact checking on something discussed tons and tons of time, but sure it would spoil the fun of posting it, trying to get people pissed offs and laughing eh ;)?

I like the fact the video is talking about RT, 4K, 120 Hz (and otherwise they would highlight the DualSense features… again all visual and gameplay enhancing features that are only on the PS5 version).





Original article: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

After the GTA V trailer

Jim Ryan: ... "It's now just over a year since we began sharing technical details of the PlayStation 5, but today's the day we've been looking forward to for years. When we get to show you just some of the games that demonstrate our belief that PS5 marks the biggest generational tranisition our industry has yet seen. The content we've curated for today's event showcases how PS5 has inspired developers to create new experiences that are transformative in how they look, sound and feel. Enough from me, we're going to have the games do our talking."

Followed by

<All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from PS5 systems.>

OK, so lets unpack some of that, shall we? They've been waiting years to show how THE PS5 has inspired developers to create new experiences on this biggest generational transition ever, and they're gonna have THE GAMES do the talking.

Then immediately following that... the first words of the GT7 trailer after that are GET READY FOR NEXT GEN, followed by, GRAN TURISMO IS BACK.

It doesn't say, *yeah, but the game will also be on PS4 too. Sure, their line these days is how "The decision to release a PS4 version (of Gran Turismo 7) was made only fairly recently.", they almost HAVE TO say that to not lose face after making a big stink about Generations and Generational Transitions. EDIT: GT7 is admittedly a particuarly bad choice to start the rant on, I am talking more generally. I'm more annoyed that both Horizon Forbidden West and God of War, these games were always intended to release as cross-gen titles. They're still not rleased, and Sony did not mention the last-gen console during the announcement of either title anyway, so the overall point about duplicitous marketing and living in the grey area still stands. Kind of like presenting to the world in a trailer show that these games are PS5 only, only to then piss off customers when they find out seven months later via a throwaway interview line that this isn’t the case. As well as the fact that you simply can't be both waiting years to show off this transformative PS5 Only game with new experiences (the implication being that it's only possible on PS5), and also trot out the "it started life as a PS4-developed game, there wasn't any PS5's back then", like Jim defenders like to say. Games are built on PC's anyway, and devs aren't clueless about the roadmap to PS5, the kinds of things they're going to be able to do on it, Cerney goes around years in advance and gives developers the iggy. At this point Jim even says it's been a year since PS started sharing tech specs publically, so the PS devs themselves are completely fine, especially seeing as they got their PS5 devkits way, way in advance, several versions of them in fact, right?

Later, conveniantly planed directly after the Horizon Forbidden West trailer btw to conflate those messages together and hide that this will be another cross-gen game, we get a little segment of various game dev talking heads.

Game Devs:
I think there's a lot to look forward to for the community, I think fans are going to be really pleased. As a game designer and storyteller this is incredibly exciting. We're talking a whole new generation of ideas and experiences that we can create for the player. No matter where they are. No matter who they are.
New experiences like we've never had before. More iconic, interesting characters. More atmospheric and immersive worlds for players to explore. We want to wow players, expect the unexpected.
I for one can't wait - can't wait - we can't wait to share them with you. It's so exciting - incredibly exciting - it's really about.... <fade out> WELCOME TO PLAYSTATION 5!

So, everything is new, new, new, right? Can't do this cool stuff on the old hat PS4, nope, never. It's a whole new generation of experiences... No more designing around PS4 limitations, like needing to squeeze through cave walls, or loading hallways, right? Or... not being able to put flying mounts into HZD1 since GG already said the PS4 didn't have the power to realise that feature for HZD1. Doesn't this just sound peachy, when XB is getting slammed to fuck in the games media for focusing on cross gen, BC, won't have any next-gen-only games for a few yars, and hell they're even going to keep the same console UI! Doesn't it sound wonderful, around about the time when Sony first got backlash over the idea that Demon's Souls Remake would also come to PC, which they later said was just a "mistake". Nope, PS5 is a beast and opens-up abilities for new, new, new. All the while, HFW is cross play? Seriously?

And, from the end of the video, after the PS console reveal.

Jim Ryan: We hope you've enjoyed the first glimpse of our future today. You've seen our most striking console design yet. And you've seen games that can only be enjoyed with the full range of PS5's features and power. At PlayStation we believe in Generational Transitions, and we have put years of work into making them happen. We want you to enjoy the unique benefits of moving from one generation to the next. Thank you for joining us. We're launching later this year and we have tonnes more to share. Welcome to PlayStation 5.

Welcome to PS5 indeed. Games that can only be enjoyed with the FULL RANGE OF PS5 features and power... well, you know, except for those PS4 Cross Gen games, but shhhhh. They've put years into making this Generational Transition happen with unique benefits of moving from one gen to the next. Gee Whiz! I'm looking forward to this. They've clearly focused so much on PS5 and building "PS5 games", this has gotta be their ethos, rather than following Microsoft down the cross gen/pc port path. And coming at the expense of any serious PS1,2,3 BC push. Afterall, who'd want to play those old horrible games, am I right? "Well actually Jim..." "Nope! Generational Transition, RAWR! We'll just announce later that half of these are cross gen. They'll buy it anyway cause PS4 is such a juggernaught, and we can just blame it on Covid. Nevermind that by the time the games come-out after some delays, there'll obviously be more PS5's in the wild. Nevermind that we'll look fucking stupid for bleeting-on about Generations. Main point of today is to downplay BC by saying PS5 Generation blows the nuts off of anything before it, so don't expect anything on BC front. It'd look pretty bad if our competition was able to hang-in there on the strength of their BC and streaming service alone, without (m)any blockbuster AAA games, wouldn't it? Hell, we called the event THE FUTURE OF GAMING, not the Cross Gen of Gaming..." "... OK, sure thing boss man. (fuck... where's Kevin Butler when you need him?)"

Even in the article you posted, from a month before this event, it says:

One way to keep PS4 users engaged would be to make upcoming PS5 games playable on the older machine, just like Microsoft is proposing with its Xbox Series X games being playable on Xbox One. Yet Ryan says that's not something PlayStation is interested in doing.

"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features."

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

They're not saying the controllers and the hardware are the new features, they're talking about the GAMES USING the features, the benefits, the power, the new... the difference in hardware architecture, to be games that can only be enjoyed on PS5. This simply cannot be true of PS4 also-run cross gen games, which they clearly are interested in by the fact that they exist. Just cut the BS talk, Jim.
 
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Panajev2001a

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They're not saying the controllers and the hardware are the new features, they're talking about the GAMES USING the features, the benefits, the power, the new... the difference in hardware architecture, to be games that can only be enjoyed on PS5. This simply cannot be true of PS4 also-run cross gen games, which they clearly are interested in by the fact that they exist. Just cut the BS talk, Jim.
You bolded something in your quote the journalist said interpreting what followed and making his own reference to MS strategy which Ryan did not make. The believe in generation quote is a very curious hill to die on / last stand because out of all the things Ryan said, plenty of idiotic quotes, this is the least controversial.

Not sure why you are still stretching arguments and twisting then to suit a point, I get you are angry that there are not more exclusive next generation titles (if that is really why you are chasing Sony threads around reporting the same “believe in generation” reaction and twisted argument).

The part I underlined and italicised is again twisted and frankly a seemingly obvious statement taken to an unsupported conclusion feeling made up: you are the one implying the odd sentence “they are saying games using the new features can only be enjoyed on the next generation console” which I read as a mix of “duh… do you expect to enjoy the RT reflections and DualSense haptics support in Spider-man on PS4 now?” and “What do you mean it is not true in the cross-generation games? They might not be fully designed around the new HW (like the exclusives they are also making are), but they absolutely are using those next generation features only when running on the new HW… so not just improved BC but use of new HW features”

They are talking both about the HW itself (see changes in the controller, RT, the SSD, the new 3D audio support, etc…) as well as games using them… so? PS5 has had a good number of PS5 exclusive games that went to town with those features, including an awesome free one pre-installed with the system, as well as cross generation ones that did make non trivial use of Haptics and Dynamic Triggers in the DS, RT, and other unique HW features the PS5 has PS4/PS5 does not.
This simply cannot be true of PS4 also-run cross gen games, which they clearly are interested in by the fact that they exist.
… and yet it is true. Spider-man Miles Morales and the original remastered Spider-man do take advantage of things you can enjoy only on the new console and those are next generation features or features introduced in the new generation HW.
 

Klik

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PS5 is selling even better than PS4. Why then make it crossgen 2 years after release? (Assumming GT7 will be released in Q4 2022)
 

jigglet

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Sucks for online matchmaking / loading. Sitting in a menu longer because of the previous gen console.

How does that work? Surely you don't mean the SSD speed do you? The increased match making pool would far outweigh this.
 
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Negotiator101

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PS5 is selling even better than PS4. Why then make it crossgen 2 years after release? (Assumming GT7 will be released in Q4 2022)
Sony are losing a lot of money on every PS5 (even more on the digital version). They have to sell their games to as big an audience as possible. Jim Ryan is nothing more than a puppet on a string, he has to answer to the bigwigs at Sony Corp. People quoting Ryan is really silly, he hasn't got the control Phil Spencer has because Sony haven't got the warchest (couldn't help myself 😉).
 

Banjo64

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How does that work? Surely you don't mean the SSD speed do you? The increased match making pool would far outweigh this.
I think he means like Rocket League - if you are on an next gen console you match make, then you load in to the arena very quickly, then you have to wait for the last gen players to load in to the arena before the count down to kick off begins.
 

jigglet

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I think he means like Rocket League - if you are on an next gen console you match make, then you load in to the arena very quickly, then you have to wait for the last gen players to load in to the arena before the count down to kick off begins.

I'd prefer all the benefits of being next-gen only, but no way does even the fastest SSD beat a match making pool that's 2x to 3x bigger, especially if you don't live in Europe or the US. I don't think it's the right argument for him to be making.
 

TheKratos

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Until PS5 is steadily available in stores I don't expect any next gen only exclusive. DS and R&C were a showcase for the launch window but I expect Sony to go for that PS4 monies until everyone can buy PS5 with ease.
 

rolandss

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The question is what should distinguish a next gen racer from a already 60FPS GT Sport .. apart from graphical improvements. I'm thinking (again) of realistic visible damage to the vehicle and even total damage, interactive pit stops, changing weather conditions....a lot would be possible only with PS5
Yeah I hope we basically don’t get GT sport with a more fleshed out campaign, mods, cars and tracks. GT is my favourite game series but it’s been behind the competition for so long in most of the things you brought up. They need to give us dynamic time and weather back that we had on the PS3 titles, as well as a proper damage model that isn’t an afterthought. Realistic damage has been on fans wishlist for more than a decade and not implementing it now cos it’s cross gen would be a major misstep for the game.
 
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The game has just been added to the Coming Soon section of the PlayStation 5 store. Of course, like the other games in this section there's obviously no date listed yet.
 

GreatnessRD

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Would be a bad decision to abandon over 100 million PlayStation customers!
At some point we gotta stop using this as an excuse. How are you abandoning 100 million customers when you've put out product over the last 7/8 years? That makes no sense. PS4 owners still gonna get their "improved stability" patches and indy games. At some point people gotta understand that there is a new kid on the block named PS5 that should get the most attention now. And that's coming from a non PS5 owner. Games shouldn't be watered just because some couldn't grab and/or afford a PS5. But Sony chose the decision to make sure its released on PS4. I just hope it doesn't completely gimp the game just to have it realized on old hardware.
 

ReBurn

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At some point we gotta stop using this as an excuse. How are you abandoning 100 million customers when you've put out product over the last 7/8 years? That makes no sense. PS4 owners still gonna get their "improved stability" patches and indy games. At some point people gotta understand that there is a new kid on the block named PS5 that should get the most attention now. And that's coming from a non PS5 owner. Games shouldn't be watered just because some couldn't grab and/or afford a PS5. But Sony chose the decision to make sure its released on PS4. I just hope it doesn't completely gimp the game just to have it realized on old hardware.
You're right. Plebs who can't get a PS5 don't deserve good games. They only deserve stability patches and indies.
 
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SlimySnake

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You're right. Plebs who can't get a PS5 don't deserve good games. They only deserve stability patches and indies.
PS5 owners dont deserve PS5 games. They only deserve indies and PS4 games.

At some point we gotta stop using this as an excuse. How are you abandoning 100 million customers when you've put out product over the last 7/8 years? That makes no sense. PS4 owners still gonna get their "improved stability" patches and indy games. At some point people gotta understand that there is a new kid on the block named PS5 that should get the most attention now. And that's coming from a non PS5 owner. Games shouldn't be watered just because some couldn't grab and/or afford a PS5. But Sony chose the decision to make sure its released on PS4. I just hope it doesn't completely gimp the game just to have it realized on old hardware.

PS2 had a 150 million userbase. Sony had no problem abandoning them.
Wii had a 100+ million userbase. Nintendo abandoned them. What an anti-consumer company.
Xbox 360 had over 85 million users. Microsoft abandoned them like Konami abandoned Kojima.
Its predecessor the OG Xbox had over 20 million users. MS abandoned them after just 4 years.

This is how the industry has always been. You buy it expecting 5-7 years of support. It's people who shelled out $500 for this console expecting next gen games based on false advertising who are abandoned. Not the other way around.
 
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omegasc

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I like to think that if they decided to go with a cross gen approach, it was because Polyphony got it working on PS4 without any compromises other than the visual enhancements.
GT Sport is now a very different game from the day1 release - a lot of things have been added, reworked, and improved (except for the Penalty System lol). GT7 will follow this trend.

Those unhappy with it being cross gen should wait and judge if it is still worth your money after trying it out. Sony will hardly backtrack on this decision.
 
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Fafalada

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rFactor2 (one of, if not the best/complex tyre physics in a racing game) has a min CPU spec of a Core2Duo, so maybe it isn't as bad as we think?
It wasn't until some years ago that most of it was single threaded as well. I don't know. Maybe we (yes, me included) are assuming too much?
It's still single threaded today. And it shipped games on that Jaguar CPU people are so concerned with.

Also the fun thing about physics sim fidelity is that it 'is' actually scalable, if it came to 'it can only run certain level on CPU X' - the only problem would be cross-play.
 

omegasc

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It's still single threaded today. And it shipped games on that Jaguar CPU people are so concerned with.

Also the fun thing about physics sim fidelity is that it 'is' actually scalable, if it came to 'it can only run certain level on CPU X' - the only problem would be cross-play.
And even for cross play, some things can be left off to accommodate the physics code. For example: no opponent AI code needed for multiplayer. Some track stuff as well, maybe?

There's also Kunos' ACC. It may be a better example:
“The physics in the PC [game] are the same as PS4 and Xbox One. The only thing that has changed is the textures for the graphics.”
 

sncvsrtoip

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GymWolf

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Well why not make cross gen with ps2/ps3. Would be a bad decision to abandon over 200million customers
People like to rewrite history, they also forget the 80 milions from ps3 to ps4 and who knows how many from ps1 to ps2... don't waste your time dude.
 
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And to jump on the crossgen wagon, people are forgetting games like Call of Duty for the next 3 years after PS4 showed up were selling on PS3 as well. Hell even the very first cross-gen title Ghosts looked miles better than the PS3 version. So no, next gen games dont suffer because they are released on a inferior platform as well. The inferior one is the gimped / cut-out version of the original. What, you dont think GT7 wont look better on your PS5 in higher resolution, ray tracing, faster loading...none of that is available for PS4. Problem is people think every developer is going to design their game differently jsut because theres an SSD. Some will but seriously, what you expect a racing game to change in its design?

Literally, you cant even say what different can they do but..oh if it was next gen only we would see some never before seen design choices...NO, its a sim racer, you got a main menu, car select screen and a race track. If a loading time of 2 seconds doesnt impress you from when you click START and actually start the race then i dont know what you expect these games to achieve. They wont be sucking your dicks thats for sure.
 
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NickFire

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Problem is people think every developer is going to design their game differently jsut because theres an SSD. Some will but . . . .
Weird to see so much hostility for people who agree with you that some devs will design differently when only designing for next gen.
 

yurinka

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Games like GT7, Horizon 2 or God of War Ragnarok were started to be developed back in 2017-2018, and back then games could only be designed and developed for PS4. They had no idea of the PS5 final specs and that it was going to feature an SSD and I/O system technology that back then didn't exist. So the games were designed and started to be developed for PS4 because they didn't have any other option, and then when they had the PS5 specs started to implement next gen improvements (haptic feedback, 3D audio, RT, highter resolution, maybe better lighting, etc) for the base PS4 game.

It's almost impossible that the decision of releasing a PS4 version of GT7 would have been taken recently, and much less that the game design or concept could have been affected because of that, that's 100% impossible. AAA games that started to be developed back in 2017-2018 like Gran Turismo 7 couldn't be designed for PS5, and even less to take advantage of disruptive new possibilities that the SSD offers for game design.

PS2 had a 150 million userbase. Sony had no problem abandoning them.
Wii had a 100+ million userbase. Nintendo abandoned them. What an anti-consumer company.
Xbox 360 had over 85 million users. Microsoft abandoned them like Konami abandoned Kojima.
Its predecessor the OG Xbox had over 20 million users. MS abandoned them after just 4 years.

This is how the industry has always been. You buy it expecting 5-7 years of support. It's people who shelled out $500 for this console expecting next gen games based on false advertising who are abandoned. Not the other way around.
They keep supporting PS4 not because it sold 120 million consoles until now, but because over 80 million of them still keep playing every month and it was above 90 when PS5 was released.

It would be super retarded to stop releasing games for this people, they will continue releasing PS4 games until 2-3 years after PS5 release as they did with PS2 or PS3 because they will be by far their biggest group of active customers during this period until they slowly migrate to PS5 even if they keep migrating at the gaming history record levels that they expected and that they are achieving.

On top of that, basically all big AAA games we'll see during the 1st and 2nd (and maybe 3rd) year of the console were started to be developed like 4-5 years ago for the previous console when they didn't know the next gen specs, so these games are basically a previous gen game with an extra layer of shiny stuff like higher native resolution, RT and so on. Pretty much secondary stuff that doesn't affect the game concept if they remove it for a previous gen version.

Only a few super fast teams like Insomniac are able to ship games more or less big games during that period that are somewhat designed for next gen in mind. And even in cases like Ratchet, maybe they already started to develop the game normally as if it was a previous gen game and added their lighting/RT/dimension jumps stuff in the later stages of development.

Every generation AAA games take longer to be developed. And in this case where we'll have several paradigm changes due to the SSD as we saw in the UE5 demo and Cerny's presentation, they will need extra time to learn this stuff, to update their game engines to support that, to lean to use it and test which numbers can they achieve before they can design games to take advantage of all this next gen potential. Which means we won't see games unleashing this potential until at least the 3rd or 4th year of the console, a bit later than happened normally in all generations with their 2nd-3rd gen games.
 
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SlimySnake

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Feb 5, 2013
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Literally, you cant even say what different can they do
- Destruction
- Better racing A.I using machine learning that adapts to your racing style mid game
- Better physics models
- Weather and other simulations
- Massive crowds
- Better trackside detail
- More cars on screen.

GT3 was easily the biggest showpiece for the PS2 right alongside MGS2. Racing sims like GT have long set the standard for graphics. Photorealistic graphics. GT7 barely looks better than GT Sports.

The funny thing is that DriveClub was on the same gen, but because they targeted only 30 fps they had 2x as much GPU resources which gave us a great idea of exactly what compromises GT Sports had to take within the same generation in order to hit 60 fps. The rain and weather effects were the most obvious ones. You take one look at the windshield rain effects between the two games and its not even close. The trackside detail is on another level. Everything from the trees to the individual plants in rendered in 3d in these massive long tracks. GT Sports was a close circuit game and it still used 2D trees. Not to mention the fact that DC had realtime day and night time of day shifts that GT didnt even bother with. All this with just 2x more GPU sources and you think they cant do anything meaningful with a 7-8x stronger CPU and 5-8x stronger GPU.....

They are just now getting 3D trees and realtime time of day lighting changes. They are literally already a gen behind with this so called next gen version of the game. No wonder Sony killed Evo Studios, they were making PD look bad.
 
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Aug 26, 2018
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- Destruction
- Better racing A.I using machine learning that adapts to your racing style mid game
- Better physics models
- Weather and other simulations
- Massive crowds
- Better trackside detail
- More cars on screen.

GT3 was easily the biggest showpiece for the PS2 right alongside MGS2. Racing sims like GT have long set the standard for graphics. Photorealistic graphics. GT7 barely looks better than GT Sports.

The funny thing is that DriveClub was on the same gen, but because they targeted only 30 fps they had 2x as much GPU resources which gave us a great idea of exactly what compromises GT Sports had to take within the same generation in order to hit 60 fps. The rain and weather effects were the most obvious ones. You take one look at the windshield rain effects between the two games and its not even close. The trackside detail is on another level. Everything from the trees to the individual plants in rendered in 3d in these massive long tracks. GT Sports was a close circuit game and it still used 2D trees. Not to mention the fact that DC had realtime day and night time of day shifts that GT didnt even bother with.

They are just now getting 3D trees and realtime time of day lighting changes. They are literally already a gen behind with this so called next gen version of the game. No wonder Sony killed Evo Studios, they were making PD look bad.

And why do you think you wont get any of that? Literally everything you mentioned can be on the PS5 but downscaled or downright removed for the past generation.

Again a COD example: Black Ops 3 looked great on current hardware but was gonna be hard to run on PS3. So they kept the game with bells and whistles on PS4 and gimped out the PS3 version. Removed the multiplayer completely, cut down some levels, textures with way less detail etc. But on current hardware? It could stand toe to toe with any other title that was created for ps4 only.

P.S. there will never be destruction in GT, should of learned by now, they dont budge 🤓
 
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Panajev2001a

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Well they have been and the digital still is, so what you bumping your gums about?
Interesting, so you make numbers up out of thin air and when called up on you try to flip the tables and go on the “offensive” (it would become quite funny if you were one of the people that think the Digital Edition is a scam that is produced in super low quantities too)?
 

prinz_valium

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Games like GT7, Horizon 2 or God of War Ragnarok were started to be developed back in 2017-2018, and back then games could only be designed and developed for PS4. They had no idea of the PS5 final specs and that it was going to feature an SSD and I/O system technology that back then didn't exist. So the games were designed and started to be developed for PS4 because they didn't have any other option, and then when they had the PS5 specs started to implement next gen improvements (haptic feedback, 3D audio, RT, highter resolution, maybe better lighting, etc) for the base PS4 game.

It's almost impossible that the decision of releasing a PS4 version of GT7 would have been taken recently, and much less that the game design or concept could have been affected because of that, that's 100% impossible. AAA games that started to be developed back in 2017-2018 like Gran Turismo 7 couldn't be designed for PS5, and even less to take advantage of disruptive new possibilities that the SSD offers for game design.


They keep supporting PS4 not because it sold 120 million consoles until now, but because over 80 million of them still keep playing every month and it was above 90 when PS5 was released.

It would be super retarded to stop releasing games for this people, they will continue releasing PS4 games until 2-3 years after PS5 release as they did with PS2 or PS3 because they will be by far their biggest group of active customers during this period until they slowly migrate to PS5 even if they keep migrating at the gaming history record levels that they expected and that they are achieving.

On top of that, basically all big AAA games we'll see during the 1st and 2nd (and maybe 3rd) year of the console were started to be developed like 4-5 years ago for the previous console when they didn't know the next gen specs, so these games are basically a previous gen game with an extra layer of shiny stuff like higher native resolution, RT and so on. Pretty much secondary stuff that doesn't affect the game concept if they remove it for a previous gen version.

Only a few super fast teams like Insomniac are able to ship games more or less big games during that period that are somewhat designed for next gen in mind. And even in cases like Ratchet, maybe they already started to develop the game normally as if it was a previous gen game and added their lighting/RT/dimension jumps stuff in the later stages of development.

Every generation AAA games take longer to be developed. And in this case where we'll have several paradigm changes due to the SSD as we saw in the UE5 demo and Cerny's presentation, they will need extra time to learn this stuff, to update their game engines to support that, to lean to use it and test which numbers can they achieve before they can design games to take advantage of all this next gen potential. Which means we won't see games unleashing this potential until at least the 3rd or 4th year of the console, a bit later than happened normally in all generations with their 2nd-3rd gen games.
Nah. First PS5 SOC specs via tests leaked in 2018.
If their first party teams didn't know target specs at that time already, ps5 did something wrong.
 
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Negotiator101

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Interesting, so you make numbers up out of thin air and when called up on you try to flip the tables and go on the “offensive” (it would become quite funny if you were one of the people that think the Digital Edition is a scam that is produced in super low quantities too)?
It's common knowledge that consoles are sold at a loss at launch and for some time after. Jim Ryan said in article you linked that the disc version has been profitable since June. I'm not sure why you even replied to me in the first place, you literally confirmed what I said. Low quantities? What on earth are you on about?
 

Panajev2001a

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It's common knowledge that consoles are sold at a loss at launch and for some time after. Jim Ryan said in article you linked that the disc version has been profitable since June. I'm not sure why you even replied to me in the first place, you literally confirmed what I said.
I replied to what you said. You said that right now the console is selling at a huge loss (“losing a lot of money”) and even more on the digital model.

I replied just asking where you got your data and quoted an article were Sony was able to state that the console was selling and breaking even very early in the generation. Period, the rest you did yourself.

Now “apparently” it confirmed what you just said… :rolleyes: .

Low quantities? What on earth are you on about?
The point about the digits losing more money than the other model is a bit more powerful if you think they are selling a lot of those this making $399 the real base PS5 price, just wanted to know what you thought about that.
 
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yurinka

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Nah. First PS5 SOC specs via tests leaked in 2018.
If their first party teams didn't know target specs at that time already, ps5 did something wrong.
1st party teams didn't know final PS5 target (maybe had some minor tweaks after that) specs until 2019 because wasn't decided until then. Before that for sure they must have thinking about different ideas and AMD must have been making candidate stuff.

And no, the PS5 SOC wasn't leaked in 2018 because it didn't exist back then.

- Destruction
- Better racing A.I using machine learning that adapts to your racing style mid game
- Better physics models
- Weather and other simulations
- Massive crowds
- Better trackside detail
- More cars on screen.
Other games already did this in previous generations. They don't need a PS5 for all this. If their priority would be these things, they could have included it on a PS4.

In a game like Gran Turismo what PS5 offers is basically way shorter loading times, dual sense features, raytracing, better lighting, better+more textures and extra detail in 3D models. The stuff you mention is basically artistic/design/budget management related decisions that are possible in the previous generation.
 
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