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The Coalition - Alpha Point Technical Demo and Character Rendering Test on Unreal Engine 5

CamHostage

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Sep 30, 2004
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Character model: 10/10
Environment demo: 7/10
I would have liked to see some Facial Animation like some laughing, frowns and smiles. They way the did with Unreal MetaHuman.

It is an Unreal MetaHuman. (Well, sort of a MetaHuman...)


That wasn't necessarily a demo of special new Coalition character tech. That was Coalition demoing what they could do with the tech Epic and others already put out there.

Running a MetaHuman or next-gen-quality character model on an Xbox Series X is at least new, although technically, Senua of Hellblade II uses a lot of the technology by 3Lateral, Cubic Motion, IKinema, and Xsens that Epic also collaborated with them on to help construct MetaHuman Creator.
 
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Salz01

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Jan 21, 2010
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A little disappointed. I mean I feel like the entire been hyping up these videos the last few weeks. Flight Sim on XSX, which is releasing tomorrow seems more impressive to me.
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
May 11, 2013
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Please, everyone who is technical minded, whatch this instead:

Some things to note:
- They are fully saturating XSX GPU
- They are currently ALU bound
- The streaming pool is quite small
- DCC tools are the bottleneck
- Need to change the way of doing some things on Nanite meshes due to limitations (i.e. no vertex paint on instances)

That seems to imply GPUs with more CUs will be able to squeeze it further

Interesting they are averaging 46fps already and see a path to 60fps. Also talked about Series S towards the end which is obviously more challenging with the GPU and Memory constraints but believe they can get to 1440p with upscaling.
Seemed pretty confident that they are going to hit their targets.
 

Leyasu

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Apr 25, 2014
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People were making fun of Unreal demo running at 1440p on ps5. Karma is a bitch

Imagine not only defending that guys tweet, but also writing this in the same sentence.

laugh jordan GIF
 

Mister Wolf

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Sep 21, 2014
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Interesting they are averaging 46fps already and see a path to 60fps. Also talked about Series S towards the end which is obviously more challenging with the GPU and Memory constraints but believe they can get to 1440p with upscaling.
Seemed pretty confident that they are going to hit their targets.

They are dedicated to 60fps and I applaud them for that.
 

oldergamer

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Aug 20, 2004
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Please, everyone who is technical minded, whatch this instead:

Some things to note:
- They are fully saturating XSX GPU
- They are currently ALU bound
- The streaming pool is quite small
- DCC tools are the bottleneck
- Need to change the way of doing some things on Nanite meshes due to limitations (i.e. no vertex paint on instances)

That seems to imply GPUs with more CUs will be able to squeeze it further
To be expected regarding CUs
 
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Balducci30

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I’m actually not unimpressed - character looks really good and the reflections are really cool on that triangle thing assuming it’s not raytraced
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Awesome quality. Now I wonder what it's like in full game use? e.g. animated, deformed, based in physics/interaction and with dynamic lighting while a full scene is loaded and running.
 

Exanthus

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May 12, 2020
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He's a nobody on Twitter (4000 followers) but I've seen like four different people already posting his tweets on here like he's some kind of authority. At least it's interesting to see where the console warriors get their fuel from 🤭

Well it's obvious who his fans are... Lol
 

Kuranghi

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Apr 17, 2015
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Yeah that was disappointing as hell, the lighting from the object at the ending was quite cool and the shadows and general polycount of the scene is high but the character model was disappointing, the materials are great but nothing new, the hair rendering wasn't great imo and the poly count/tesselation was still low enough that you could see a lot of the edges weren't smooth, just like current models.

Also, several people posted this image, can someone please tell me what we are taking away from this it exactly? Its too low quality to really get anything from it:

 

elliot5

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Apr 22, 2021
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Yeah that was disappointing as hell, the lighting from the object at the ending was quite cool and the shadows and general polycount of the scene is high but the character model was disappointing, the materials are great but nothing new, the hair rendering wasn't great imo and the poly count/tesselation was still low enough that you could see a lot of the edges weren't smooth, just like current models.

Also, several people posted this image, can someone please tell me what we are taking away from this it exactly? Its too low quality to really get anything from it:

if you watch the GDC talk it's that they want to now work on a cinematic of the environment and with that character asset to learn how to make performant cinematics in-engine with these high detailed characters and environments being rendered simultaneously.
 
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SlimySnake

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Feb 5, 2013
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For anyone wondering, here's Kotaku's awful take on this:






:messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I am convinced that these cunts do it on purpose. To get clicks. They know what they are doing.

Besides, This person isnt even a woman. His name is Mike. No idea why the white men in video games trigger him so much.
 

RoyalLaFlame

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Oct 22, 2013
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People were making fun of Unreal demo running at 1440p on ps5. Karma is a bitch
When I think you couldn't get any dumber, you throw this

Good lord


The demo looks good, but for some reason I'm not that surprised by it. Neither was I in awe with the PS5 one.
 
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dcmk7

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Mar 25, 2020
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The character is technically impressive but still looks gamey in terms of art direction. The environment didn't really scream next gen to me and was kinda bland.
I think it's less impressive because I've been so impressed with facial work in games like the last of us 2 and death stranding.

Think we've been spoilt by those. Something about the beard looks a bit off.
 

Shmunter

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Aug 25, 2018
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Can someone explain why they are still tiling textures for the floor to save memory?

The whole point of these mega scans is to be MEGA and seamless. Seems immediate asset streaming is not on the books for at least Coalition devs?
 
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elliot5

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Apr 22, 2021
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Can someone explain why they are still tiling textures for the floor to save memory?

The whole point of these mega scans is to be MEGA and seamless. Seems immediate asset streaming is not on the books for at least Coalition devs?
You still have texture and memory budgets to adhere to. Virtual texture memory pool can only get you so far
 
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Shmunter

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You still have texture and memory budgets to adhere to. Virtual texture memory pool can only get you so far
That’s like saying water is wet. Physical reality of constraints will always exist of course.

UE5 is supposed to significantly alter the balance of the equation however where texture tiling should no longer be part of the consideration. Even Rage in the day did this but was too restrictive for universal adoption.

Not going to win any hearts and minds of Xbox fans with this, but I’m calling out that the pivotal factor of asset streaming as displayed by Epic in the unveiling is not upto snuff here.
 
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3liteDragon

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Watching the GDC tech talk right now, 1080p performance stats for Lumen and Nanite on Series X.




He says they were inspired by the 1st UE5 demo on PS5 when it came to Epic's Niagara particle system and decided to add some of their own insects using Niagara in the Alpha Point demo. Performance cost is VERY cheap.



Memory overview, he says to take this with a grain of salt as this is ONE hallway in a room while normally you would have a lot more characters on screen and another adjacent room that you have to keep in memory as you transition to that room. But he thinks 61MB as the total memory cost for static mesh is impressive regardless.



OVERALL PERFORMANCE OVERVIEW FOR XBOX SERIES X (He says the target for them is 60FPS and hopefully they'll hit that target while working with Epic):



OVERALL PERFORMANCE OVERVIEW FOR XBOX SERIES S:



The Coalition's findings on UE5 through the Alpha Point demo:

 
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Rikkori

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May 9, 2020
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This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, just a shittier version of the UE5 demo, not even with the littlest originality of a new setting. Them getting familiar with new tech I understand, but wtf's the point in hyping up this shit for the public? Meh.
 
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Utherellus

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Yea, lets ignore a two month old Valley of the Ancients showcase which similarly renders billions of Quixel Megascan asset polygons on Series X.




Alpha Point demo was not a marketing material. It was created for internal use and testing (watch the video)

And they brought it to GDC.

They did not need to crank up polys to billion territory. Epic did that already.
 
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SlimySnake

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That’s like saying water is wet. Physical reality of constraints will always exist of course.

UE5 is supposed to significantly alter the balance of the equation however where texture tiling should no longer be part of the consideration. Even Rage in the day did this but was too restrictive for universal adoption.

Not going to win any hearts and minds of Xbox fans with this, but I’m calling out that the pivotal factor of asset streaming as displayed by Epic in the unveiling is not upto snuff here.
I mean Nanite is still very GPU hungry. it is bringing big GPUs like the 3090 to their knees in 4k with both the 6900xt and 3090 struggling to even hit 50 fps in the latest UE5 demo.

There is a reason why the UE5 target for both PS5 and XSX is only 1440p 30 fps on high Lumens settings and just 1080p 30 fps on Epic Lumen settings. All that FREE LOD stuff is just marketing PR. The GPU still has to render everything.